For dropping all the dead wood in the last couple of months and bringing in alot of potential players on trial.
Was also happy that he pushed hard for De Guzman but wasn't willing to sell the farm or let the deal dangle forever.
Kudos to Mo
For dropping all the dead wood in the last couple of months and bringing in alot of potential players on trial.
Was also happy that he pushed hard for De Guzman but wasn't willing to sell the farm or let the deal dangle forever.
Agreed. We don't always get the information on the ins and outs of contract negotiations, but they can be complex and sometimes difficult. It's a good sign for the future if MLS is able to sell talent to other leagues on a consistent basis one day. There would be a need for competent replacements, and the fact that Mo has been able to get many bodies through the door for a look is promising.Originally Posted by Stryker
For dropping all the dead wood in the last couple of months and bringing in alot of potential players on trial.
Was also happy that he pushed hard for De Guzman but wasn't willing to sell the farm or let the deal dangle forever.
Agreed, though I may be in the minority. Or maybe the haters just yell loudest around here...
On second thought, I disagree, based on the avatar of the poster above me.
now that's the spirit!
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well if he dropped all this dead wood, then shouldn't he be blamed for hiring all the dead wood? He's only cleaning up his own mess
Perhaps for some. To be fair, it's not always easy to tell if a player will perform well from footage or from trials. Game time action may be required. MLS is a different league that doesn't play football at the same level or speed as elsewhere. Some players can adjust over time, others never pick it up. There is also the question of whether a player can gel with his teammates, on the pitch, when it counts. Mistakes are made. Even Sir Alex gets it wrong sometimes. I'd be more worried if the manager wasn't willing to admit mistakes and avoided trying to improve the squad because he wanted to cover up his blunders. We only have 24 roster spots and there is a cap. Player movement is going to happen. I am more bothered by the tendency of TFC to still play like individuals rather than a team.well if he dropped all this dead wood, then shouldn't he be blamed for hiring all the dead wood? He's only cleaning up his own mess
See, this is what happens when two families live in the same house. Shouldn't The Lions get their own den?
Kudos to MO ? You like MLSE are premature...lets make the playoffs before you give him Kudos...cmon people, lets have some standards.
Moderator
Even the best GM's in the world don't strike gold 100% of the time. But I think if you look at our acquisitions - especially this year - Mo does seem to be bringing in progressively better talent.well if he dropped all this dead wood, then shouldn't he be blamed for hiring all the dead wood? He's only cleaning up his own mess
I really, honestly think Mo Johnston gets a lot of undue flack from the fans sometimes, for problems that can be more accurately attributed to poor coaching. And I think some of the players that have left Toronto, to go on and be far more prosperous elsewhere, are a testament to that suspicion.
However, unless we really catch fire down the stretch this season, I really think the onus is on Mo to bring in a high-level coach to better use the pieces he has brought to TO. And no matter what happens down the stretch, he needs to seriously address our defense - no more trial balloons and bandaids like Harmse, Velez, and Garcia running our back four.
Mo has done a decent job so far, in my opinion. But I DON'T think he deserves this rumoured two-year extension just yet. There are still problems he hasn't fixed.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
There is nothing wrong with giving credit where credit is due. I don't think that Stryker was arguing for a contract extension for MO now, but I'll let him speak for himself.
I am afraid the contract extension is a done deal..so my bitching wont do much but it makes me feel better ! I just believe you reward people based on results and not the promise of results
Moderator
He didn't say the man deserved a lifetime contract for unloading our dead weight - he was just giving him props for doing something right. Nothing wrong with giving our GM kudos for doing something good for the team.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
Agreed. All this means nothing if we don't make it to the playoffs.
Cummins himself said today we need 13 or 15 points to make the playoffs. Ten games left. That's four wins and a draw or five wins flat out.
Is it doable? Maybe. If they do it, I'll give Mo the kudos then. For now, get the fuck back to work.
I'm still holding out for Robbie Keane
Seriously though, I like that he's willing to make moves but it seems like he's often looking for any position other than the one we immediately need.
my sources say its a done deal, 3 years.
This is a typical North American critique right here ^
Mo has set us up well for the present and even better for the future. It may not be this year or even next year - but with our academy growing the way it has and the youth that is starting to expose itself to the first team. I am certain that TFC will be a successful club for a very long time when everything comes together.
Good job, so far, MO. Heaven help us all if the knee-jerk reactionists were listened to and we fired the entire management every 2-3 years.
"Failure simply isn't an option at this stage. TFC pushed its chips to the middle of the table when it splurged on Bradley and Defoe and reinforced its bet by making savvy acquisitions elsewhere. This collection of players is capable of delivering on the promises made during the close season. There are no more excuses available for TFC. Only success will continue the process of atoning for the past and establishing a higher standard for the future." FOX Sports
Did you forget a smiley at the end of that Blades?
My point is, that if we don't make the playoffs I believe this season will have been a failure and Senor Mo should walk the plank for it.
EDIT: I don't think Mo has done a horrible job, but this is a results business. People need to be held accountbale.
Yes and no.well if he dropped all this dead wood, then shouldn't he be blamed for hiring all the dead wood? He's only cleaning up his own mess
To some degree he was trying to just fill the bench with decent players the first two years.
Lets be honest, we all love the team, but with exception of the hometown boys, players weren't exactly climbing the fences to get into BMO Field.
You're right, the ocntract extension is a done deal, so we might as well get used to it. There are pros and cons. I think it's a good idea for the club to set the standard that they won't be too quick to pull the trigger on a GM - that would only make it even more difficult to get quality guys to come to Toronto. Look how much trouble we have attracting players - the JDG fiasco should have been more of a wake-up call for us to realize that even Canadians don't want to come here for millions more and longer contracts than they will make in Europe. That will be true for managers, too. Also, the handling of drafts and the weird MLS roster rules has gone pretty well under Mo. And, not that it should matter, but the guy fully committed to Toronto, he moved his family here and bought a house.
The problems with the team seem to run deeper than the GM and the next one will have to deal with the same stuff. Someone worthwhile will demand a lot of money and a long-term contract. All I hear on this board is what a crappy, low-level league this is, so how do people expect to attract quality talent with short-term contracts and a reputation for firing people quickly?
Still, even with all that, it seems to early to be talking contract extension. Wait till the end of the year, at least.
I agree with this statement wholeheartedly. Assembling the team is the manager's most important duty. I watched the team in year one and I watch the team now, and I have noticed a marked improvement in the quality of players and play. Do we still have problems? Yes. Should Mo get a contract extension right away instead of waiting for the end of the season? As a fan, I think such business should wait, but I'm not MLSE.
What I would like to know is how instrumental, if at all, was Mo in the Maurice Edu transfer to Rangers? Do any of you even miss Edu or notice a drop off in team performance since he left? Does Mo have connections in other football markets? Does such a connection help get players over to Toronto for a look? Did Mo have anything to do with Rohan Ricketts trialing for Aberdeen FC? Has he played a role in convincing Celtic and Benfica to play at BMO?
In the end, my impression is that all player contracts are with MLS and must meet their approval first. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. In this way, a manager on a MLS squad isn't a "manager" in the traditional football sense. More like a manager with training wheels on. Furthermore, in such a case, is it then not also important to employ someone that the league likes as well?
While missing the playoffs would be very disappointing, and while it should probably factor into MLSE's decision on MO, it doesn't mean that long-term aspirations for the team are worthless endeavours. The ability to bring fresh faces into camp is not a waste no matter how the team performs.All this means nothing if we don't make it to the playoffs.
Last edited by BayernTFC; 08-13-2009 at 04:28 PM.
North American critque ? Yes measure people based on results and reward fairly has worked horribly for North America and our standard of living.
2-3 year is not long enough to make the playoffs in the MLS ?
I like Mo, but I'm not going to go and give him "kudos" over these changes. He brought in these sub-par players, Marco Velez for one. Way over his head from day one with the club.
Look, we've improved over the last two seasons and thats good. We have some good young players that if they stick around may give us a very solid club in 2 years time. I'll be ready to judge Mo after year 5. You have to give him time to build the club, a club from scratch. So i have the patience to wait till year 5, at that point we better be a top club in MLS, no reason why we shouldn't be.
All reasonable arguments...
Oh yes, those stupid inferior North Americans with their idiotic, unfounded expectations. Please -- don't dress the lack of consistency of this club and Mo in some bullshit European veneer.
The only measure of success in sport is result. Nothing else. We're in year three and we're fighting for our lives to get a playoff spot, in no small part because of duds like Velez and Harmse.
Mo's doing well with many of the signings, so I'm not one to call for his head. At the same time, he's also signed a few howlers and he doesn't deserve kudos for that in the least.
Moderator
But this thread isn't about the retarded idea of giving Mo credit for the players he signed that haven't worked out. It's giving him kudos for doing the right thing, and getting rid of those shit players, so we can sign new players.
And while the measure of success in sports is "result", that doesn't necessarily mean immediate result. If it did, a manager like Arsene Wenger wouldn't be able to find work.
Mo hasn't done everything right, but I don't see the problem with giving him the written equivalent of a "thumbs up" when he does something right.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
Or half the team after every game for that matter.
Moderator
I think Toronto FC should take the unprecedented step of hiring 20 general managers next season.
Every time the team loses, we go to the next GM in the rotation. You win, you get to keep the job for the week.
That should make everyone happy.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
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