Chris Cummins

[DangerRed]

Twenty games at the helm.
What say you?

And herein lies the problem: Cummins hasn't even had 20 games at the helm. Do you not remember when Carver got tossed?

The coaching on this team is not the worst. The only direct flaw that I can find in Cummins' approach is that he's letting Dichio sit against really tall defenders and that he's giving Barrett too much time.

You guys want to complain? Focus on the back four, who can't defend a fucking beach ball and who get picked apart like stringy cheese by a USL team. That's not on Cummins. That's on Mo and that's on the salary cap structure.

Here's something I've not heard anyone say in quite a while, if ever: we decided to spend on the attack: Guevara, De Ro, Gerba, Vitti. These guys aren't free. And when you get such "high-profile" signings for your attack, you end up with Garcia being called a "major defensive acquisition."

Bitch about how the limited amount of money is being spent. Don't bitch about Cummins or about the MLSE. Bitch about the guy who decides where the dollars go.

That's it, I'm done.

[Super]

Cummins has officially had 20 games as of tonight - 21 if you count River Plate.

[The Kingpin]

I can never understand why so many are willing to "give the guy a chance". As many have said from day one, this chap is not experienced enough. I ask again, why are we so accepting of this?

TFC has decided to go with Cummins as a money saver vs. getting a real manager with experience. There is a defined history here that I will not get into, but we have to stop listening to the "uber positives" who are always willing to give someone a chance. TFC fans are simply to passive when it comes to demanding success.... Seattle has the right recipe, regardless of the excuses people try to make. They have a leadership team that wants to win, the differences are astounding.

[James Oliphant]

TFC has decided to go with Cummins as a money saver vs. getting a real manager with experience.

The MLS season was already a month old, USL was just starting up, and the European clubs weren't quite done with their seasons. So who exactly were they going to get at the end of April when Carver abandoned this club? Sven?

There is a defined history here that I will not get into, but we have to stop listening to the "uber positives" who are always willing to give someone a chance. TFC fans are simply to passive when it comes to demanding success....

Hence the protest following the loss to Vancouver. Yes, I know the reasons for that were at least two-fold, but come on...don't act like that wasn't a tipping point.

Seattle has the right recipe, regardless of the excuses people try to make. They have a leadership team that wants to win, the differences are astounding.

You can't just write off things like being able to bring half your roster in from USL (and thus having a cohesive starting unit) or being able to land a homesick coach who was looking to move back to the left coast as "excuses". These are legitimate reasons for Seattle's early success on the pitch...reasons which go beyond their management merely wanting it more.

I'm not a big fan of Cummins, btw. But I keep hearing these arguments (TFC fans are too complacent / MLSE doesn't give a shit about winning), and they always strike me as ridiculous.

[The Kingpin]

The MLS season was already a month old, USL was just starting up, and the European clubs weren't quite done with their seasons. So who exactly were they going to get at the end of April when Carver abandoned this club? Sven?

Hence the protest following the loss to Vancouver. Yes, I know the reasons for that were at least two-fold, but come on...don't act like that wasn't a tipping point.

You can't just write off things like being able to bring half your roster in from USL (and thus having a cohesive starting unit) or being able to land a homesick coach who was looking to move back to the left coast as "excuses". These are legitimate reasons for Seattle's early success on the pitch...reasons which go beyond their management merely wanting it more.

I'm not a big fan of Cummins, btw. But I keep hearing these arguments (TFC fans are too complacent / MLSE doesn't give a shit about winning), and they always strike me as ridiculous.

James, I think you it would be hard for you to believe otherwise. Who wants to believe that the club they support is complacent? The Seattle excuse could explain year one of a franchise, but Toronto is in year three... With three managers to date. Which suggests there is something wrong. I'm not just "bashing" here, I believed since day one that this move was a complacent one. Also, and not that I have a list, but there are always managers on the sidelines. They may not be the cream of that crop, but since when have we had that already. TFC requires a tactician, not a man manager, that must exists in the english speaking stratosphere... All the rest are excuses to me.

I really don't dislike Cummins, he strikes me as harmless, which is probably the issue. He won't speak out as Carver did, which is a relief for TFC Management.

I would break it down as this:

Your first point though valid, is a bit of an excuse that both of us are probably ignorant to whether it's valid.

Second point; not valid in any way since we are in year three. We've had three years with added funds to build a cohesive squad.

Finally, MLSE has a track record of making complacent moves, you know this deep inside. As I said, it's at times difficult to admit that the club you follow just doesn't get it. And remember, I'm also a NUFC supporter...

[Blizzard]

It's all about the play-offs now. If Cummins can get us there then he deserves a proper contract. It's not easy to take over at any point into a season, and though we've been inconsistent in the results as of late I personally feel that he's done a fairly decent job. To me his future rests on us making the play-offs. Let's not get carried away and demand ALL the goods this season.

Did any of you see the post-game presser tonight? I love how he called out a journalist who asked if the atmosphere was maybe the reason why TFC lost. He said, and I am paraphrasing: "You're winding me up? We've got 22,000 people watching us at home every game, fantastic atmosphere, and our fans even showed up here tonight". Certainly Cummins knows how to deal with the media - and that's a positive (disregarding results that obviously are more important, but still a side-note to him as a coach and a person as well).

Here it is: http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/con...catid=2&id=970

Ya, he got lightly persnickity with that reporter didn't he. When the reporter asked why TFC practiced at the artificial turf baseball stadium instead of on the grass of the soccer stadium, he says something to the effect of "if you'd do you're research, you wouldn't ask such silly questions". A bit rough perhaps but considering the circumstances ......

Anyway, the answer was we weren't allowed to practice on the grass field because of the rain so TFC had to go to the artificial turf.

[Cashcleaner]

Unless Cummins can pull a miracle out of his ass and get us past the first round of the playoffs, we're gonna need a new coach coming into 2010.

Oh, and while we're at it, let's spring for a new General Manager.

[Carts]

And herein lies the problem: Cummins hasn't even had 20 games at the helm. Do you not remember when Carver got tossed?

Carver quit.

Insert facepalm here!

[sampace]

Cummins goal was to go far in Champions League and make the playoffs. Based on the month of July he has failed (playoffs we are on the fringe). His tactics and ability to motivate the team is poor. I can't help but think with more Hart, Stephen Hart specifically, this team would have drastically different results. I am tired of seeing this team not play with the ball at their feet for large portions of the game, happy to play long ball. If talent is also an issue we need a house cleaning. I agree that Robbo, Brennan, Garcia must go. Yesterday even Sam Cronin played poorly turning the ball over, too bad he left to join the US as it seems to have made him slip a bit in play. Clean house and axe Mo, coach, and move some of the dead weight. Let the younger players play (come to think of it the last month hasn't been Guevaras best either -- perhaps he should of played for his country in the Gold Cup for the difference having him has made).

[Bloor West FC]

Hes gone, he can't put the right players on when he should. Dichio should have been on earlier. He showed us his chances in the 2nd half in both games. Why wait till near the end?

[TFC_Junky]

Hes gone, he can't put the right players on when he should. Dichio should have been on earlier. He showed us his chances in the 2nd half in both games. Why wait till near the end?

gawd, his subs have been horrid. Down 1-0 and you wait till the 85th to sub danny in?! WTF? at least he threw all the strikers we had at PR last night, just too little too late.

[ecospice]

Started off well, but our consistency has dropped off consderably as his tenure has wore on.

I'm prepared to give him until the end of this season, but if things don't improve, he's first on my list to be replaced.

- Scott

Agreed. Besides, replacing the coach (a second time) during the season will basically signal that management feels the season is lost and that is the wrong message to send to the players - especially given that there is still a good shot at the team making the playoffs...

[dow117]

A Coach is responsible for 2 major things - tactics and motivation... Both were clearly missing in the last 5 games. These guys are not playing with heart at the moment - somethings up !

[MG42]

A Coach is responsible for 2 major things - tactics and motivation... Both were clearly missing in the last 5 games. These guys are not playing with heart at the moment - somethings up !

Bingo! Do your shirt up and get out of town Cummins.

I want to see MoJo work his magic as gaffer again!

[Pachuco]

Cummins should definately be here till the end of the year. There's no doubt in my mind he's more effective then Carver. However, I put him at the top when I have to blame someone for not scoring on Puerto Rico two games in a row. Their coach completely outclassed our coach. That was apparant.

[Tintin]

Cummins' record (not counting our home win against Chivas on the 22nd of April that he seemed in charge of, but Carver was still technically boss at the time - even though he was away from the bench):

Home:
6 wins - 2 draws - 3 losses

Away:
2 wins - 3 draws - 4 losses

Total:
8 wins - 5 draws - 7 losses

Included are the Canada Cup games as well as the Puerto Rico games. River Plate game was not included.

Below the pure MLS stats under Cummins:

Home:
4 wins - 2 draws - 2 losses

Away:
1 wins - 2 draws - 3 losses

Total:
5 wins - 4 draws - 5 losses

It's the home record the problem...

[maninb]

If we make the playoffs CC stays til next year, if we don't Mo will use him as the scapegoat and he's toast...remember Mo just signed a 2 year extension...he's not going anywhere...

[ensco]

Carver quit.

Insert facepalm here!

Surely nobody believes this fairy tale even now.

[FluSH]

Paul Mariner

[ensco]

CoachGT, I believe you've been told what you say you've been told, but it doesn't matter. The crux of your argument seems to be that you've had personal contact with Carver and some people at TFC. I heard the same thing from my ticket rep too.

Don't take this the wrong way....but so what?

I could not disagree with your assessment of organizations more. Organizations are the biggest peddlers of stories around. The idea that it's a "conspiracy" is laughable - it was done in both Carver's and Mo's interest, that's all. Same as it often is when high-powered people in any profession "resign" for personal reasons. And I have plenty of personal experience in corporate life where "stories" around personnel departures are told and repeated by all, even if they don't really add up. Unlike what you claim, it's incredibly common.

The fact that some smart people think it's believable does nothing for me. Just to remind you, a lot of smart people believed it when they were told that JdG got offered $7 million a year.

Carver got pushed. Without rehashing the story, there was plenty of evidence at the time, based around formation, players used, not attending the press conference post game, things Mo said during and after the fact etc....but those who don't want to see it choose not to see it.

This matters, because the Carver hiring/firing is the biggest mistake Mo has made. It's a major consideration around whether Mo should stay or go. Even if the mods here seem to want to squash any discussion of the subject.

Save the holier-than-thou, this-is-the-way-it-is-because-I-say-so stuff for something, or someone, else.

[Beach_Red]

^ People repeat what they're told if it benefits them. Who does it benefit to say Carver quit? Not Carver, so why would he stick with the story? How could it hurt him now to tell "the truth?"

I can see whre it was in Mo's best interest so he wouldn't have to admit the hiring was a mistake, but how does it benefit Carver - unless you think there was some back door payment or something?

Coaches get fired all the time, there's no stigma attatched to it. But quitting during the season is a tough sell to your next employer. Why go along with something that would damage your reputation?

I know we went over all this before but I agree with you, the Carver hiring was the biggest mistake Mo made. But he drops players all the time when it looks like they were a mistake, why wouldn't he just fire the coach, too?

What are the benefits to the people involved in this mess?

[ensco]

^Mo has always been very focused on gentle exits for anyone he brings over from Europe. Signings from Europe are the hardest part of Mo's job. He doesn't want a reputation for rough handling. So Welsh gets placed back at Blackpool, Samuel leaves the team for personal reasons, Robert has a gig lined up in Greece, Ricketts negotiates his exit on terms that at least somewhat suit him....and Mo didn't fire Carver, Carver quit.

It's all about not developing a bad rep for "churning and burning" people with options, some of whom move their families thousands of miles to come to TFC.

Carver gets to say he quit because MLS is a shit league. It really is a hell of a lot better than getting fired, in terms of getting your next job, notwithstanding the fact that coaches get fired. The story just works better than what would have otherwise got out there.

Carver also wins because he gets some/most/all of the severance he would get for being fired. This I believe is the negotiation that went on while Carver was "in the press box" for the Chivas game. To the extent Carver gets less than his contract called for, Mo gets to be a hero to Anselmi.

[Beach_Red]

^ Okay, that makes sense. If they worked out an exit that satisfies both parties that would seem like a good thing.

What's the problem?

[Darlofletch]

^^He's been winging it for months.

kind of like that 7 year old driving a car on youtube.

Yes he can drive, yes he can obviously stay on the road, but he doesn't have the experience or the responsibility or the decision making skills required to be a safe driver.

Perfect analogy.

[Razor]

Mo and Cummins both have to go.

Then get rid of the dead weight like Brennan,Robbo,Barrett,Garcia,Velez...fuck I could go on and on.

[Darlofletch]

I'd say give Cummins until the end of the season, if only because i can't see the point unless there's someone good lined up, which is unlikely mid season.

If things don't improve, then fire him at the end and go after someone with a little more experience than a few games in England.

Someone earlier in this thread said it's the defence that's the problem and that has nothing to do with Cummins. I'd say the fact that we've consistently given up leads, consistently let in late goals, and we've let in 3 goals in over half of our away games under Cummins (4 out of 6 in mls, 4 out of 9 all together) are problems with coaching. having the talent and imagination to score isn't something that can be taught, surely to god, defending is a coachable skill. Puerto Rico certainly look well organised at the back, we never have, I'd say that's down to coaching.

[ensco]

^ Okay, that makes sense. If they worked out an exit that satisfies both parties that would seem like a good thing.

What's the problem?

This is the right question.

For me, the problem is that the exaggerated reflex to say "figuring all this out is unproductive and disrespectful to Carver, a guy we all like" leads to a lack of critical assessment of the colossal blunder Mo made in bringing in an untested coach, who, while "like-able", didn't really have a clue what he was doing, and had serious problems coping with the job's demands.

Mo cannot have done any real due diligence on the coach of his team. When we accept the fiction that Carver quit, Mo comes off as more of a victim, an innocent, and much less the cause of the problem.

[mmmikey]

Cummins gained ALOT of trust really fast because he was so damn personable and a great interview. Was a breath of fresh air after the JC tirades and tongue lashings. He is a great "face" of the club.

As far as his actual job performance with regards to results on the field, it has been abyssmal. It was hit right on the head within this thread. It's about motivation and tactics. It doesn't matter what players are on a team, if the coach can't motivate them or assemble the proper game plan to suit his squad, they will fail.

Look at Spurs last year. Under Ramos they started the year a horrible mess. Lineup changed constantly, tactics were not bringing out the best in the team, and the players were no longer motivated by their manager. Make the change to Redknapp and it was the tale of two seasons. 8 games 2 pts under Ramos, 30 games 49 pts under Redknapp. (Of course there was also the change from Coach/Sporting Director to the single manager format. Hrmmmmmmm).

The lack of adjustments have disturbed me for weeks. You don't see an adjustment in tactics midgame, or between games (unless there are injuries). Whatever the gameplan is at the start of the game, it's the same one at the end of the game. Subs are often times off the mark, but worst of all, there is usually little to no tactical change involved. Extra forward, same gameplan.. Extra defender, same gameplan. I cannot recall a game when I have seen them purposely target a particular weakness in an opponent, let alone adjust midway. If DeRo starts a game marked into the stone ages.. he ends the game marked into the stone ages, because they will not adjust.

Last night's game was almost a carbon copy gameplan wise from the first leg. When you need goals on the road, starting 2 DM's and a lone striker isn't going to cut it. Particularly when PRI looked comfortable defending it already.

[mmmikey]

Someone earlier in this thread said it's the defence that's the problem and that has nothing to do with Cummins. I'd say the fact that we've consistently given up leads, consistently let in late goals, and we've let in 3 goals in over half of our away games under Cummins (4 out of 6 in mls, 4 out of 9 all together) are problems with coaching. having the talent and imagination to score isn't something that can be taught, surely to god, defending is a coachable skill. Puerto Rico certainly look well organised at the back, we never have, I'd say that's down to coaching.

totally. when up 1-0 there needs to be a tactical change. hold up the ball. maintain possession. waste time.. make the other team press and tire themselves out. when TFC holds the lead, they look like they are down 2-0 as they longball it up the field or take frantic runs at the defense.. often times losing possession.

it's ok to pass it around the park for 30 minutes guys.. ill take that and a win then an exciting 1-1 or 1-2 loss anyday.

[MG42]

Cummins gained ALOT of trust really fast because he was so damn personable and a great interview. Was a breath of fresh air after the JC tirades and tongue lashings. He is a great "face" of the club.

TRUST ME