LOLOriginally Posted by AL-MO
GA Unites us all.
LOL
GA Unites us all.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
I think I know the "capo" you refer to, as he was much closer to me in the first half of the game at the Big O - and the only other time I've seen him was at Rogers, where he did a pretty good job of alienating many of those around him. I've never seen him in the south end - I've heard it mentioned that he sits in 127 ... part of that "North End" group - which might go a long way to explaining why that group seems to be shrinking, and there was so much availability in 127 as seat relocation and even sales to new STH, compared to any of the other supporters sections.
One of my suggestions from a while back was too use the group in 112 AS THE CAPO for 111 and towards the sides. The "Massive" works well and is one of the louder chants. Why not do "When then the Reds come marching in" similarly, as a back and forth. Eliminate the single man capo for those chants and make it a group that acts as capo and have the other groups/sections respond. It would coordinate the Chorus and effectively make the chant have much more impact and volume. Same can be said of the "Ultras/We Love You Toronto/Toronto Superstar" chant. Why not involve everyone more. From sitting in 110 trying to hear what is being started is virtually impossible. That's why I say communication with collective voices from section to section to section will not only get people involved it will give us that much needed coordination that people speak of. We've gotta work with what we've got so why not give it a shot???????
Last edited by kaos197O; 06-07-2012 at 07:08 AM.
Re: Chanting for 90. Humans in Toronto are pretty much wired like humans elsewhere. Certainly capable of chanting a full 90 if the social supports are in place. A fellow is less likely to sing for 90 mins if he is the only one singing, or perceives his efforts as less than effective.
Leadership studies suggest that sometimes, the "first follower" is more important than the leader itself.
"There is no movement without the first follower. The best way to make a movement is to courageously follow and show others how to follow."
So, where am I going with this?
IMO, if we want unity we have to demonstrate unity within the SGs themselves. In Portland, they have established a Supporters' Trust called the 107ist which fuels everything that the Timbers Army does. Other groups belong to it and it is the guiding, unified voice for all Supporters. The other groups still operate on their terms with their members.
It isn't surprising that the North end of that stadium is filled with unified followers.
My appeal would be for the "RBP Inc" to have a vision to serve as the unified voice and in the spirit of courageous following, engage the other groups in participation. Essentially an umbrella trust organization that unifies all groups around charities, TIFOs, a voice with the FO and supporting the team.
Call it something like the "Red Sea" or something more creative. Create a structure that supports their voice... perhaps seats on the exec of Red Sea, work together on the charities that unite us all, engage them in the goal of unifying the south end with capo suggestions and work with the FO to make it happen.
Easy peasy?
I agree with this. Sitting at the end of 114, it dies about there and whatever chanting is achieved further along the South End is always seperate or waaaay off from the corner. If there are any grand ideas of moving to the North end, I think we need to be able to be heard past 111-113. And to follow Pookie's last post, another coordinated Capo will help. I'm sure people will sing if there is direction.
You be better off trying to get MLSE to construct a solid concrete south end that has NO seats but safe standing with crash bars German style. That way you are not restricted to where you can and can't go by being tied to a seat. Then move the east section furthest south (not sure of the numbers down that end) and any NEE that want to move in there and anyone else for that matter till its sold out. Stick a roof over it to help funnel the noise and have a separate entrance so no-one else can access that end. Add $50 to the Season price for yellow to help pay for it. Everyone happy.
Except those whose ticket prices just went up 15%.
Not that I can see MLSE dishing out $$$ on a new and rebuilt South End but this post has a lot of truth to it. The Germans have it bang on when it comes to atmosphere at their stadiums and the proper construction of their supporters sections have a lot to do with that. If you look at their stadiums a lot of them have inclined sections that enable capos to reach out to as many supporters as possible. This of course is not possible at BMO Field as the South End is extremely stretched but it's certainly not impossible to extend the atmosphere to other sections in the South End. The question is whether or not the folks in those sections want to have the same kind of participation as 112/113 or are they content on standing and watching the game for 90 minutes.
As Pookie said multiple capos would be needed but even then the synchronization between them makes it difficult to be on the same page. With a vertical slope a capo is able to engage more supporters and a second capo, midway through the section, helps in the distribution of the chant. Of couse it works best when the capos are centered in the middle of the stand.
Open dialogue on this matter is what's needed imo. Have all the supporters groups meet and discuss ideas as to what can be done to better improve the gameday atmposphere and if unification is needed to create that kind of atmosphere, then maybe we should be going that route?
This is one of the most uninformed posts i have ever read on the forums. So much so i'm going to leave it unchallenged. It's absolutely hilarious how people who aren't clued up in the slightest still have self righteous opinions. I'm embarrassed for you, I truly am.
LOL And yet I used the word might ... which actually implies even I think there's a bigger chance it isn't the reason 127 sales were soft this year. Might is self righteous?
What's really bizarre about your post, is that you say you leave it unchallenged. But you then proceed to challenge it! If you disagree with something I've said, have the balls to point out where I'm wrong, and what you think is correct. And if you don't have the balls to do that, stop being self-righteous!
While this insult MAY grow interest in someone to get more information I think it would be pretty obvious that the self righteous isn't reserved to the informed. We all start somewhere. Information usually helps more than a challenge but it's your play.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
I'm still laughing. hahaha
At what, no one quite knows - at how rude you were perhaps? All I did was relay some gossip I'd heard, and possibly linked it what we've all observed in 127. I made it clear that it was innuendo, and that it was only a theory.
I've certainly touched a nerve though ... though I'm not sure why. The two stories are out there ... not sure which part you think is incorrect. I'm quite happy to have the record set straight; we all know how telephone works.
Are capos really needed? I am not trying to be a dick, I am just curios. I travel abroad a couple of times a year and attend matches in larger stadiums without capos and there are no problem with the entire stadium getting involved with the songs. Just interested in what the difference might be.
The difference is that we need a capo and those places you've visited have never thought they needed one because they've never known they could have one. Granted they have less discussion on how long or loud they sing. That is, the take on singing is more organic and far more ingrained.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
some people say that supporters moving from the South stand to the North would make no difference because if fans can not unite in the South why would it be any different in the North?? well i beleive because it's smaller and more supporters would be bunched in together would help. An example of this working is Columbus Crew, when supporters were all put into one half of the stand behind there net rather then being spread out all across the whole stand (they took out a portion of seats in the middle of the stand to put in a stage or something) anyways the atmosphere improved for them.
Other options, yes we could try to improve the atmosphere in the South End, but i could tell you the only way this will work is if supporters have more control over ticket sales. There are to many fans bunched in between supporter groups, and support groups are scattered about in the South End, many fans like to go the game sure thats fine, but they do not want to get involved in the singing, tifo displays exc and as long as the South End remains without supporters having more control this will not change. If those fans were going to join in with the supporters singing and everything they would of done it by now i think. Reason it works in Seattle, Portland, Philly for example is because hardcore supporters have more control and are more bunched in together then we have at BMO Field in the south stand.
any ways thats my thoughts.
Last edited by james; 06-07-2012 at 07:13 PM.
This is a superb post. It is an excellent study of the human condition. I stand in row 19 of 110 and I like to sing. I do find that singing is a little initmidating when you are the only one doing it in your immediate area. My voice is passionate but my pitch needs work. I think many share this. I will say that I will always follow and support someone else that throws themself out there! Hey Toronto!
That's a fair question. I think it depends on who you ask. I, for one, believe a capo IS necessary, at least in our ground. I feel that on gamedays when the capo stand is vacant, we as a group, lack direction and become silent for extended periods of time. As soon as the capo stand becomes occupied, this problem seems to be eliminated for obvious reasons (see Pookie's video as evidence). You are right in saying that a lot of SGs around the world rely solely on the supporters for their songs/chants, however, a lot of these SGs have been around far longer than we have. Their fanbases tend to know the songs/chants inside out whereas outside of the regulars in our supporters section, there are many folks who do not fully know the lyrics associated with our chants. For this reason alone we aren't nearly as loud as those SGs who have been around for decades. Then there are all the other factors such as location of the stadium (wind from Lake Ontario) etc. In the end, some people like capos for their leadership while others wish they would dissapear. It's up to the supporters to decide.
Haha I know that feel bro! Especially after a full half of singing you'll notice people changing pitch or going an octave lower to save their voice or to keep a voice at all. Keep at it!
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
I just think we need some new chants to make us look a little bit better. When I watch TFC on tv, it seems like 3 people are chanting TFC!
the problem isn't the chants, its the accoustics of the stadium. Many stadiums have roofs which allow the sound the supporters make to bounce back down towards the pitch. The south end is a wide open stand and many of times the wind is blowing towards Lake Ontario. You have a better chance at hearing whats being said in Lake Ontario than you do in the north stand
There are huge numbers of tourists in 127, different every game. I went down and had a pleasant chat with a guy in NEE, who said thay had some internal problems this year and a lot of people left. They would love some help. The problem is that some guys facing the field can't be heard by the people behind them. I've suggested having one guy face backwards, or moving to the back. They said they've tried all those things, but not much seems to work.
So, a few of us near the top of 127 are doing our own thing and people below are joining in. If we hear NEE, then we help out.
I'm curious...has the use of FRS radios been investigated to try to unify the sound?
O, Maple Leaf around the world, You speak as you rise high above,
Of courage, peace and quiet strength, Of the Canada that I love.
Remind us all, our union bound by ties we cannot sever,
Bright flag revered on every ground, The Maple Leaf forever
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