Philly to cap season ticket at 15,000 (sold 9,000+ so far)

[olegunnar]

I'm open to the discussion on "only members" in a given section but there are a number of complications that arise due to the fact that we're sold out.

But keep talking... I'm listening. Bear in mind that at some point this discussion will move offline and our legal people will chime in. Here are some challenges that are worrysome because any TFC policy could ne considered precedent-setting for our other teams.

1- how do we retain control? After the issues with ticketing we've endured it will be difficult for us to completely relinquish control. Which would mean some sort of partnership with the club. Is RPB or one of the others prepared to meet us half way? A pair of Leafs season tickets can carry a street value of over $100k in the licence transfer world. Is TFC worth a tenth of that?

2- what makes a supporter? Paying a $25 fee? Some other measure? How do we resolve that with our waiting list? It's not a stretch to see someone just paying the fee to jump the line. Is that fair? I DEFINITELY see the benefit of having a full area of like-minded supporters taking what you guys do today and magnifying it. Would the RPB rules/standards stand up to the Ontario human rights rules? Can you refuse membership, and therefore access to tickets in a public building based on an individuals desire to chant and sing and make banners? It may seem a stretch but people love to challenge things like this.

Uh oh. More free market research. I feel so dirty.

I'll preface my comment by saying I don't believe a supporters controlled section is appropriate at this time.

That said, I'm not sure why you're posing these questions since you already give control to soccer clubs, what makes them any different from supporter's groups? The average household income of the membership?

Lets take The Oakville Soccer club for instance. Not picking on them, just using them since they are such an obvious example.

1. Every year they have control over the majority of 126, and have tickets to other sections which vary from game to game.
2. They advertise on their website that they have these tickets to sell, but only to members. The orderform (yes they even have an order form) requires a membership number.

I'm not quite sure how that situation would be any different that having supporters sell tickets to their sections.

I can turn around and repeat the questions you posed, but substitute the OSC rather than RPB.

What makes an Oakville soccer club member? A membership fee? How do you resolve that with your waiting list? Can they refuse membership, therefore access to tickets in a public building, just because you dont' live in oakville or have a kid playing in their house league? How do their rules stand up to Ontario Human Rights rules? Since people like to challenge things like that how many people have challenged the OSC's control over most of 126?

[boban]

I think this is stupid idea. Who cares if DC or Philly does it.
Supporters groups should not have control of their own section. It's creates so many liabilitiy issues, I don't even know where to begin.

And Dc and Philly didn't address their liability issues?
A way can be found. But the fear of the legal issues is whats wrong with a lot of this part of the world. But I digress.

[BBBulldog]

I'm not totally sold on that number.
First, it says its mostly unpaid for without the team ever playing a single game. How many are these disguised at scalpers just wanting to get into the section?

it's number of people that gave their email for email list.

I think this is stupid idea. Who cares if DC or Philly does it.
Supporters groups should not have control of their own section. It's creates so many liabilitiy issues, I don't even know where to begin.

Each to their own Barra controls tickets to 7 sections in RFK, I don't see how that's different liability than ticketmaster lol it just means we can set price, get cut, refuse tickets etc. It has nothing to do with security and what not, that control is unofficial

[Kaz]

I'd love to see TFC fix this at BMO make SS ticket holders that aren't members of a Supporter Group move to 111 or 119 and remove 110,111,119 from the supports list. That will allow supporters in those sections to move to the south stands, and then make the gate at 115 a supports gate (if it isn't already).

There are 14,000 on a waiting list, if it pisses off warm weather fans with SS who cares.

Good on Philly if Seattle, Philly, Portland, and Vancouver can all maintain 80-105% capacity along with Toronto it will be great for the league.

[Dust2]

Here's BHTC Mike suggestion on bigsoccer and I think it's a very good one. Hence, the copy and paste.
http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showt...1143406&page=2
Should Toronto set aside a Supporters Section solely for supporters (similar to Philadelphia)?




Originally Posted by BHTC Mike
This is just about finding a way to allow the people who want to do organized cheering to sit together WITHOUT INCONVENIENCING ANYONE ELSE WHO EITHER HAS TICKETS OR IS ON THE LIST.

I outlined a way it could be done in a completely fair way on page 2. Not to be overly snarky but next time read the thread before you post.

Here it is again:

Step 1 - TFC FO management asks each recognized supporters group's leadership (and it's entirely TFC's perogative what that means; they already have a working relationship with these people and know who they are) for a list of members along with their account ID's if they're existing season seat holders.

Step 2 - Based on this membership list TFC allots different proportions of a new North Stand to each group.

Step 3 - TFC starts contacting group members (identified by the membership lists) who are EXISTING SEASON SEAT HOLDERS, in order of season seat purchase, about whether they would like to move some or all of their seats to the new stand. I would suggest that group members wouldn't get to "choose" seats in the new end they'd just be assigned the next open seat in the group they're registered with. If they don't like that, tough, they can stay in their existing seats.

Step 4 - TFC's traditional seat re-allocation process happens for every area of the stadium EXCEPT the supporters group areas. Many existing seat holders in non-designated Supporters Sections would actually have the chance, because of the seats vacated by supporters group members moving to the new North stand, to get into 111 - 119 for the first time if they wish.

Step 5 - TFC starts contacting people on the waiting list, in order, about buying open seats. If the person is on a supporters group membership list they can get a seat in the section for that supporters group (if there are any still available). If the person is not, they can get a seat anywhere else in the stadium (including the many seats that would likely open in the South). If season seats sell out before the designated group areas do, unlikely but not impossible, then TFC management shuffles the groups to condense them to as small an area as possible in the centre of the stand - and members can't say no to having their seat moved - leaving the "wings" of the stand open for partial packs and single ticket sales with no restriction on who can purchase them.

In future years, during the annual relocation process, as seats open in the supporters groups' sections only registered members, who would already have season seats btw, would be eligible to move in. Same thing with moving anyone in off the waiting list.

NO ONE gets forced to move out of their current seat.

NO ONE gets denied the chance to buy a ticket because they're not a supporters group member.

NO ONE gets jumped in line by supporters group members without seats as they open up.

TFC retains 100% control over ticket distribution and can take away the groups rights at any point if the system isn't working.

The groups get to be together in one spot (if their members want to be there).

The only thing that could go wrong is the groups not actually being for it because of a preference to remain where they already are either as a group or as individuals. Regardless, this is imminently workable if there is a will to do it.

[dcdcdc]

some of you gotta get paste your sense of entitlement. There are people on the waiting list for 3 years, respect it. I can see this happening now with every new section

[Helmet]

I'd love to see TFC fix this at BMO make SS ticket holders that aren't members of a Supporter Group move to 111 or 119 and remove 110,111,119 from the supports list. That will allow supporters in those sections to move to the south stands, and then make the gate at 115 a supports gate (if it isn't already).

As one of many who sit in upper 110, it would be a shame to remove the supporter specification that has been granted.

The section may not be the loudest and the singing runs in relation to the time of day. Evening games (especially wet/cold ones) bring out the best in the area. People there have put in the effort to earn the right to stand and enjoy the match in their own way which we have been doing since the first match.

No one should be forced to do anything. The creation of a supporters only section (which I am in support of) should not result in the destruction of what is already available.

[brad]

I'll preface my comment by saying I don't believe a supporters controlled section is appropriate at this time.

That said, I'm not sure why you're posing these questions since you already give control to soccer clubs, what makes them any different from supporter's groups? The average household income of the membership?

Lets take The Oakville Soccer club for instance. Not picking on them, just using them since they are such an obvious example.

1. Every year they have control over the majority of 126, and have tickets to other sections which vary from game to game.
2. They advertise on their website that they have these tickets to sell, but only to members. The orderform (yes they even have an order form) requires a membership number.

I'm not quite sure how that situation would be any different that having supporters sell tickets to their sections.

I can turn around and repeat the questions you posed, but substitute the OSC rather than RPB.

What makes an Oakville soccer club member? A membership fee? How do you resolve that with your waiting list? Can they refuse membership, therefore access to tickets in a public building, just because you dont' live in oakville or have a kid playing in their house league? How do their rules stand up to Ontario Human Rights rules? Since people like to challenge things like that how many people have challenged the OSC's control over most of 126?

If the Oakville soccer club pre-purchased blocks of tickets and are re-selling them to members (within the confines of the ticket agreement and the law), that would be the difference. I don't know if this is the case.

[TFCRegina]

I'm proud of philly and hope they sell it out. We need a real rival. Craplumbus is balls.

[prizby]

Here's BHTC Mike suggestion on bigsoccer and I think it's a very good one. Hence, the copy and paste.
http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showt...1143406&page=2
Should Toronto set aside a Supporters Section solely for supporters (similar to Philadelphia)?




Originally Posted by BHTC Mike
This is just about finding a way to allow the people who want to do organized cheering to sit together WITHOUT INCONVENIENCING ANYONE ELSE WHO EITHER HAS TICKETS OR IS ON THE LIST.

I outlined a way it could be done in a completely fair way on page 2. Not to be overly snarky but next time read the thread before you post.

Here it is again:

Step 1 - TFC FO management asks each recognized supporters group's leadership (and it's entirely TFC's perogative what that means; they already have a working relationship with these people and know who they are) for a list of members along with their account ID's if they're existing season seat holders.

Step 2 - Based on this membership list TFC allots different proportions of a new North Stand to each group.

Step 3 - TFC starts contacting group members (identified by the membership lists) who are EXISTING SEASON SEAT HOLDERS, in order of season seat purchase, about whether they would like to move some or all of their seats to the new stand. I would suggest that group members wouldn't get to "choose" seats in the new end they'd just be assigned the next open seat in the group they're registered with. If they don't like that, tough, they can stay in their existing seats.

Step 4 - TFC's traditional seat re-allocation process happens for every area of the stadium EXCEPT the supporters group areas. Many existing seat holders in non-designated Supporters Sections would actually have the chance, because of the seats vacated by supporters group members moving to the new North stand, to get into 111 - 119 for the first time if they wish.

Step 5 - TFC starts contacting people on the waiting list, in order, about buying open seats. If the person is on a supporters group membership list they can get a seat in the section for that supporters group (if there are any still available). If the person is not, they can get a seat anywhere else in the stadium (including the many seats that would likely open in the South). If season seats sell out before the designated group areas do, unlikely but not impossible, then TFC management shuffles the groups to condense them to as small an area as possible in the centre of the stand - and members can't say no to having their seat moved - leaving the "wings" of the stand open for partial packs and single ticket sales with no restriction on who can purchase them.

In future years, during the annual relocation process, as seats open in the supporters groups' sections only registered members, who would already have season seats btw, would be eligible to move in. Same thing with moving anyone in off the waiting list.

NO ONE gets forced to move out of their current seat.

NO ONE gets denied the chance to buy a ticket because they're not a supporters group member.

NO ONE gets jumped in line by supporters group members without seats as they open up.

TFC retains 100% control over ticket distribution and can take away the groups rights at any point if the system isn't working.

The groups get to be together in one spot (if their members want to be there).

The only thing that could go wrong is the groups not actually being for it because of a preference to remain where they already are either as a group or as individuals. Regardless, this is imminently workable if there is a will to do it.

2 problems, the new north section, if there is no line to jump, what happens when there are no more seats available elsewhere except the north side and the next person in line is someone who wants a seat and is not a die hard supporter

what happens when half the people in 112 wanna stay, then the noise gets worse as you split the stadium!

[pekduck]

hmmm got myself an Union season ticket.... lol

[Dust2]

2 problems, the new north section, if there is no line to jump, what happens when there are no more seats available elsewhere except the north side and the next person in line is someone who wants a seat and is not a die hard supporter

From BHTC Mike:


Step 5 - TFC starts contacting people on the waiting list, in order, about buying open seats. If the person is on a supporters group membership list they can get a seat in the section for that supporters group (if there are any still available). If the person is not, they can get a seat anywhere else in the stadium (including the many seats that would likely open in the South). If season seats sell out before the designated group areas do, unlikely but not impossible, then TFC management shuffles the groups to condense them to as small an area as possible in the centre of the stand - and members can't say no to having their seat moved - leaving the "wings" of the stand open for partial packs and single ticket sales with no restriction on who can purchase them.

In future years, during the annual relocation process, as seats open in the supporters groups' sections only registered members, who would already have season seats btw, would be eligible to move in. Same thing with moving anyone in off the waiting list.

what happens when half the people in 112 wanna stay, then the noise gets worse as you split the stadium!

Most want to move. If the poll was worded differently, it would get even more YES votes. For example, would you consider tickets for a "members only" Supporters Section in the North End Stand? especially when this Supporters Section is set aside mainly for like minded supporters.


http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/sh...ad.php?t=15958
Would you consider tickets for a North End Stand?
Yes - I would move my existing seat or buy a new seat in the North Stand 128 59.53%
No - I'm happy where I am at the moment 44 20.47%
Maybe - I'd have to see the finished seating arrangement 43 20.00%

[Pookie]

Most want to move. If the poll was worded differently, it would get even more YES votes. For example, would you consider tickets for a "members only" Supporters Section in the North End Stand? especially when this Supporters Section is set aside mainly for like minded supporters.


http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/sh...ad.php?t=15958
Would you consider tickets for a North End Stand?
Yes - I would move my existing seat or buy a new seat in the North Stand 128 59.53%
No - I'm happy where I am at the moment 44 20.47%
Maybe - I'd have to see the finished seating arrangement 43 20.00%

Geez, I guess we are looking at scientific evidence right there.

I mean, 128 people want to move so we must conclude that "most want to move." I can't recall the exact size of this SG but even if that 128 figure is only 5% of the total membership, we can basically ignore that. After all, this is a poll. You can't dispute the results of the poll.

Further, there is no need to consider where those 128 are considering moving from. Ie. someone in the top of 221 with the bugs might want to move anywhere. It's true that you aren't necessarily showing that 128 people will vacate 112 and move to a new north stand. But again, this is a poll so no need to address that.

Lastly, if there are 1,500 seats in the new north stand and 128 people want to move to it... who is going to sit in the other 1,392 seats? Maybe some of the same "casuals" and "tourists" that current choose to "sit" in the south end for the price. Ah, why bother considering that though. This glorious poll has concluded beyond a shadown of a doubt that "People want to move!"

Git 'r done.

[Dust2]

Geez, I guess we are looking at scientific evidence right there.

I mean, 128 people want to move so we must conclude that "most want to move." I can't recall the exact size of this SG but even if that 128 figure is only 5% of the total membership, we can basically ignore that. After all, this is a poll. You can't dispute the results of the poll.

Further, there is no need to consider where those 128 are considering moving from. Ie. someone in the top of 221 with the bugs might want to move anywhere. It's true that you aren't necessarily showing that 128 people will vacate 112 and move to a new north stand. But again, this is a poll so no need to address that.

Lastly, if there are 1,500 seats in the new north stand and 128 people want to move to it... who is going to sit in the other 1,392 seats? Maybe some of the same "casuals" and "tourists" that current choose to "sit" in the south end for the price. Ah, why bother considering that though. This glorious poll has concluded beyond a shadown of a doubt that "People want to move!"

Git 'r done.

215 votes total in that poll that is now closed. If they make a survey and got all supporters to vote if they like to stand in a Supporters Section with like-minded supporters, I'm sure the result will be similar.