Is TFC A Brazillian Away From MLS Glory?

[[NBF]]

A Brazillian manager, would be a perfect fit for TFC roster right now!

The 4-2-4 formation used by Brazil: (Confederations Cup)

---------------------------Julio Cesar----------------------------
Maicon----------Lucio--------------------Juan--------------Alves
-----------------------------------------------------------------
----------------Silva---------------------Melo-------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------
----------------Kaka---------------------Elano------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------Fabiano------------------Robinho-----------------

The 4-2-4 formation that could be used by TFC:

-----------------------------Frei-------------------------------
Wynne---------Attakora---------------Serioux----------Brennan
---------------------------------------------------------------
----------------Cronin----------------Robinson-----------------
---------------------------------------------------------------
----------------Guevara--------------DeRosario----------------
---------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------Vitti-----------------Barrett-------------------

So we need 1 brazillian manager to make this work and also most likely 2 strikers hopefully brazillian to completely dominate the MLS. So my headline is wrong but for the current squad you can make the case that if left alone the squad is just a brazillian manager away from a title contender.



4-2-4:


The 4-2-4 formation attempts to combine a strong attack with a strong defence, and was conceived as a reaction to WM's stiffness. It could also be considered a further development of the WW. The 4-2-4 was the first formation to be described using numbers.
While the initial developments leading to the 4-2-4 were devised by Márton Bukovi, the credit for creating the 4-2-4 lies with two different people: Flávio Costa, the Brazilian national coach in the early 1950s, as well as another Hungarian Béla Guttman. These tactics seemed to be developed independently, with the Brazilians discussing these ideas while the Hungarians seemed to be putting them into motion[5].[4][6] However the fully developed 4-2-4 was only 'perfected' in Brazil in the late 1950s.
Costa published his ideas, the "diagonal system", in the Brazilian newspaper O Cruzeiro, using schematics as the ones used here and, for the first time ever, the formation description by numbers as used in this article.[5] The "diagonal system" was another precursor of the 4-2-4 and was created to spur improvisation in players.
Guttmann himself moved to Brazil later in the 1950s to help develop these tactical ideas using the experience of Hungarian coaches.
The 4-2-4 formation made use of the increasing players skills and fitness, aiming to effectively use 6 defenders and 6 forwards, with the midfielders performing both tasks. The 4th defender increased the number of defensive players but mostly allowed them to be closer together, thus enabling effective cooperation among them, the point being that a stronger defence would allow an even stronger attack.
The relatively empty midfield relied on defenders that should now be able not only to steal the ball, but also hold it, pass it or even run with it and start an attack. So this formation required that all players, including defenders, are somehow skillful and with initiative, making it a perfect fit for the Brazilian player's mind. The 4-2-4 needed a high level of tactical awareness as having only 2 midfielders could lead to defensive problems. The system was also fluid enough to allow the formation to change throughout play.
4-2-4 was first used with success at club level in Brazil by Palmeiras and Santos, and was used by Brazil in their wins at 1958 World Cup and 1970 World Cup, both featuring Pelé, and Zagallo who played in the first and coached the second. The formation was quickly adopted throughout the world after the Brazilian success.

[prizby]

i see a 4-2-2-2

correct me if my vision is wrong?

[Shaughno]

^^ Same shit.

Just like a 4-4-2 Diamond is considered a 4-1-2-1-2 by some.

[billyfly]

Hopefully you don't really mean this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini_waxing

[Shaughno]

Hopefully you don't really mean this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini_waxing

Maybe it'll help streamline our players...

[DichioTFC]

Fat girls are usually a brazillian away from glory

...sorry, what are we talking about again?

[Shaughno]

Fat girls are usually a brazillian away from a glory hole

...sorry, what are we talking about again?

Fixed your post.

[Yohan]

i see a 4-2-2-2

correct me if my vision is wrong?

lol me too

anyways. in order for this formation to work for TFC... too many lacks right now

defence: need attacking fullbacks with high football IQ who knows when to push forward. also need good pace to stretch opposition defence, plus need good crossing skills. this is to make up for lack of natural wingers.
also would have to have really dominating CBs who can communicate with others to break up opposition attacks

Brennan is too slow. Wynne doesn't have high football IQ.

midfield: Cronin and Robbo would do a decent job as DM/CM, however, they'd still need to cover a lot of ground to make up for no wingers.
Guevara and DeRo would have more freedom to do their thing, but they'd have to rely on midfield and fullbacks to make smart supporting runs to be effective.
I dont think our midfield is technically skilled enough to play possession football and make those accurate passes consistently for this formation to work. too many games we lost in midfield battle because our lads can't keep the ball

forwards: I think Vitti and Barrett does have decent movement off the ball and gets into decent positions for passes, not consistent enough scoring threat to work. not sure how Gerba would fit, but he seems to be another target man striker

Brazil is also effective using this formation because they are deadly on setpieces. our setpieces suck right now

Overall, I don't think our team has high enough football IQ, plus technical skills to make this formation work

[DichioTFC]

Fixed your post.

cheers

[Shaughno]

lol me too

anyways. in order for this formation to work for TFC... too many lacks right now

defence: need attacking fullbacks with high football IQ who knows when to push forward. also need good pace to stretch opposition defence, plus need good crossing skills. this is to make up for lack of natural wingers.
also would have to have really dominating CBs who can communicate with others to break up opposition attacks

Brennan is too slow. Wynne doesn't have high football IQ.

midfield: Cronin and Robbo would do a decent job as DM/CM, however, they'd still need to cover a lot of ground to make up for no wingers.
Guevara and DeRo would have more freedom to do their thing, but they'd have to rely on midfield and fullbacks to make smart supporting runs to be effective.
I dont think our midfield is technically skilled enough to play possession football and make those accurate passes consistently for this formation to work. too many games we lost in midfield battle because our lads can't keep the ball

forwards: I think Vitti and Barrett does have decent movement off the ball and gets into decent positions for passes, not consistent enough scoring threat to work. not sure how Gerba would fit, but he seems to be another target man striker

Brazil is also effective using this formation because they are deadly on setpieces. our setpieces suck right now

Overall, I don't think our team has high enough football IQ, plus technical skills to make this formation work

To be honest, I bet we could pull it off. My one change would be to push the two forwards (Vitti/Barrett) out wide and have DeRo/Guevara coming through the middle ala..

Attakora--Serioux--Garcia----Brennan
-----Cronin--------Robinson
-------Guevara----DeRo---------
-Vitti--------------------Barrett-

My reasoning on that; Vitti and Barrett are not natural finishers IMO. They are attacking mids, or at least IMO that's what they play as and should be played as. This gives DeRo and Guevara free space to move forward when they want to and allows Vitti and Barrett to use their speed and skill coming across the backline to fuck with the defenders. I have been impressed with Attakora's ability to push forward and come back and help in the past little while. Brennan might be a little over the hill for it, but when he's on he's proved he can play that wingback roll quite well.

[Yohan]

To be honest, I bet we could pull it off. My one change would be to push the two forwards (Vitti/Barrett) out wide and have DeRo/Guevara coming through the middle ala..

Attakora--Serioux--Garcia----Brennan
-----Cronin--------Robinson
-------Guevara----DeRo---------
-Vitti--------------------Barrett-

I dunno. This formation depend on a lot on midfield winning possession battle, and attackers making a lot of smart runs.

nothing I've seen from TFC shows me that we can do this on consistent basis against better MLS opponents (Chivas game being an exception)

to be honest I don't think any MLS team is good enough to play this formation, and I rank TFC midfield as one of the best in MLS right now

[DichioTFC]

To be honest, I bet we could pull it off. My one change would be to push the two forwards (Vitti/Barrett) out wide and have DeRo/Guevara coming through the middle ala..

Attakora--Serioux--Garcia----Brennan
-----Cronin--------Robinson
-------Guevara----DeRo---------
-Vitti--------------------Barrett-

My reasoning on that; Vitti and Barrett are not natural finishers IMO. They are attacking mids, or at least IMO that's what they play as and should be played as. This gives DeRo and Guevara free space to move forward when they want to and allows Vitti and Barrett to use their speed and skill coming across the backline to fuck with the defenders. I have been impressed with Attakora's ability to push forward and come back and help in the past little while. Brennan might be a little over the hill for it, but when he's on he's proved he can play that wingback roll quite well.

DeRo and Guevara as AMCs is honestly a great idea. Vitti and Barrett can run the wings and threaten to move it into the middle, DeRo & guevara come up for support and finishing... by golly it just might work!!!

[DichioTFC]

I dunno. This formation depend on a lot on midfield winning possession battle, and attackers making a lot of smart runs.

nothing I've seen from TFC shows me that we can do this on consistent basis against better MLS opponents (Chivas game being an exception)

cronin and robbo would definitely have to mark and tackle effectively, but i think we can manage it.. it would be dangerous to use against a good wing team though... and we would definitely need some good MF subs as well...

[Shaughno]

I dunno. This formation depend on a lot on midfield winning possession battle, and attackers making a lot of smart runs.

nothing I've seen from TFC shows me that we can do this on consistent basis against better MLS opponents (Chivas game being an exception)

to be honest I don't think any MLS team is good enough to play this formation, and I rank TFC midfield as one of the best in MLS right now

Au contraire mon ami. From what I see game in, game out... Robbo and Vitti are the most successful and consistant ball winners on the pitch. Followed by Garcia, Cronin and Guevara.

I would be hesitant to use this formation against teams with serious wing talent and/or speed... like NY's Dane Richards. That said, I seriously can see that formation working against most teams in the MLS.

[Brooker]

Hopefully you don't really mean this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini_waxing

pablo vitti would shit himself.

[colman1860]

As somebody stated above, the biggest problem is that neither of our fullbacks (who would be a huge part of the attack in this formation) can attack effectively (especially on the right).

[Shaughno]

As somebody stated above, the biggest problem is that neither of our fullbacks (who would be a huge part of the attack in this formation) can attack effectively (especially on the right).

The thing is, if you have your attackers out wide, they realistically only have to push up to half and not much further to provide support. Attakora has shown that he can be fairly effective pushing up the wing, as was very evident in the win against the NYRB.

[Yohan]

Au contraire mon ami. From what I see game in, game out... Robbo and Vitti are the most successful and consistant ball winners on the pitch. Followed by Garcia, Cronin and Guevara.

I would be hesitant to use this formation against teams with serious wing talent and/or speed... like NY's Dane Richards. That said, I seriously can see that formation working against most teams in the MLS.

it's not all about winning the ball. but the ability to hold the ball under pressure too.

Robbo gives away the ball too much. his passing has been pretty crap lately.
Vitti tries to do too much and either runs into a defender, or gets tackled

the lads can play the passing game if they want to, with some nice one touch passing, but when the pressure really comes, they just end up hoofing the ball up the field and hope someone gets on that

[Shaughno]

it's not all about winning the ball. but the ability to hold the ball under pressure too.

Robbo gives away the ball too much. his passing has been pretty crap lately.
Vitti tries to do too much and either runs into a defender, or gets tackled

the lads can play the passing game if they want to, with some nice one touch passing, but when the pressure really comes, they just end up hoofing the ball up the field and hope someone gets on that

Welcome to the MLS. We aren't the only ones that have to deal with it, in fact it's basically everyone that has that same obstacle. There is a reason these are MLS players and not La Liga, EPL, etc.

We are so inconsistant, but again, what teams in the MLS are consistant?

[Stryker]

Oh yeah this would work.
Wynne and Brennen are great defenders and we totally wouldn't see an onslaught of crosses from the wings with all that free space down our sides.

[Yohan]

Welcome to the MLS. We aren't the only ones that have to deal with it, in fact it's basically everyone that has that same obstacle. There is a reason these are MLS players and not La Liga, EPL, etc.

We are so inconsistant, but again, what teams in the MLS are consistant?

yeah I know.

but I feel we're better off playing 4-3-3 which we know can work, then try this 4-2-2-2 which requires way more skill than what we have in the team right now

[Shaughno]

Oh yeah this would work.
Wynne and Brennen are great defenders and we totally wouldn't see an onslaught of crosses from the wings with all that free space down our sides.

You do understand that formations move and adjust to the play, right? Meaning that, Brennan and Wynne or Attakora wouldn't have to move too far up the wings because they have Cronin and Robbo parked infront of the backline to help pick up attackers, leaving the wingbacks to pick up the midfielder trailing down the wings... or vice versa.

I've played in a similar formation and while it takes some work (what formation doesn't?), it's actually a fairly balanced formation for both attacking and defending.

yeah I know.

but I feel we're better off playing 4-3-3 which we know can work, then try this 4-2-2-2 which requires way more skill than what we have in the team right now

You mean the 4-3-3 which works... sometimes.

[H Bomb]

why the hell do people keep trying to copy the best and most skilled systems in the world. We're the mls, 4-4-2, get some good defenders and a retarded 6'4" dude with a head like a rock at CF and we'll be fine

[Shaughno]

why the hell do people keep trying to copy the best and most skilled systems in the world. We're the mls, 4-4-2, get some good defenders and a retarded 6'4" dude with a head like a rock at CF and we'll be fine

Thing is, this is basically just a modified 4-4-2 anyway.

[Stryker]

You do understand that formations move and adjust to the play, right? Meaning that, Brennan and Wynne or Attakora wouldn't have to move too far up the wings because they have Cronin and Robbo parked infront of the backline to help pick up attackers, leaving the wingbacks to pick up the midfielder trailing down the wings... or vice versa.

Thanks tips. And what of all the free space that would open up for the oppositions CM when Cronin or Robbo was pulled out of postion?
We could turn this into a chess match and go back and forth all day or we could accept the reality that this team isn't nearly talented enough to play the formation in question. I choose the later.

[H Bomb]

Thing is, this is basically just a modified 4-4-2 anyway.

they all are

[S_D]

wasn't this formation used against Kansas because their field wasn't as wide as most others?

[James Oliphant]

If we get a Brazilian and Arshavin, we will be the smoothest team in MLS.

[/special1]

[billyfly]

LOL! Thank you James for improving on my post x10.

[prizby]

so what do you do when gerba gets back?

i noticed gerba isn't in the line up