So -- who did ... and why?
http://onwardsoccer.com/2009/05/02/a...to-tell-us-mo/
Onward! - Garber says he didn't do it
So -- who did ... and why?
http://onwardsoccer.com/2009/05/02/a...to-tell-us-mo/
I'm glad to see the media is paying attention.
It's sort of a funny situation.
All the people on here with an intuition that something untoward was occurring behind the curtains would like to continue to talk about the topic so they can be vindicated. (Ergo ... me etc. et al)
The others who mocked those questioning the "truth" they were spoon fed will tow the party line of "let's not talk about John Carver, that's in the past"
What an interesting bit of psychology.
The sad part is that .... its getting tiresome to discuss for the people that unraveled the plot from almost day 1. But yet, there still needs to be closure. So here we are.
Ahhh well .... I was right, you all (most) were wrong ... so nyah nyah.
Last edited by LucaGol; 05-02-2009 at 07:57 AM.
I'm as guilty as anyone. I just didn't believe -- in real time -- that anyone would put words in the league's mouth. I think that's what froze all of us.
No, you're not, Ben.Originally Posted by Ben Knight
You were absolutely the first to put in print your doubts, with your name on it, at a point when it wasn't "safe" to do so.
And you got ripped on these boards for your trouble.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Yeah, but I was saying Carver's story didn't add up. (And that Mo's a poker player, and it's always hard to know what's what when he's talking.)
Well, it's tougher for you, everybody else on here is anonymous. It's not like it matters what people think of anyone posting on here, right or wrong.
You've got a reputation/franchise/livelihood to protect. Which makes it 10x harder for anyone like you to take something like this head on.
But you were first. I remember.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Well, everyone in the pressbox today will be trying to get Mo's response to Garber.
It just got a fair bit harder to cover this team!
:-)
So we now think MLSE / Mo egged him on to jump because the team was playing like crap?
I've neve heard of that in professional football before....
The public support for sniffing out the truth hasn't been there, for whatever reason. It made the job of the journalists a lot harder.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
The real issue is being lost.
Why does MLSE not allow our coach to watch the game from the pressbox?
Is MLSE going to fuck with future coaches in similar fashion?
No. The question is why make up a story like that in the first place?
Don't coaches take orders from managers?
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Perhaps TA or another FO member didn't like the optics.
TA was the first to support the officiating in MLS, if I recall correctly. I find it hard to believe that Mo would have a problem with JC choosing to view a game from up top. TA is not exactly a footie officanado. It might have been taken the wrong way or maybe MLSE didn't like the way the media paid so much attention to JC in the box rather than the win over Chivas.
Sure they do, but if they're unreasonable (And ordering the coach to the sidelines seems a bit that way to me) the coach quits.
What bothers me is how unattractive that makes us to other coaches.
People were talking about high profile coaches only a week ago. What high profile coach on the face of this earth is going to take that kind of shit from the likes of Mo?
Okay, here's a question:
Was the point of the "story" to get Carver back on the sidelines -- or the blue heck out of the organization?
The evidence points to the former.
Money!...
Remember Ben, it always boils down to money.
1)Public Perception and 2)Corporate Image, these two things still equal money. They wouldn't want to shatter either of those two things because it could cause loss of money in the short term or long term....
I was with LucaGol from day one, i didn't believe for one second what was being spun to the media...
So what's the public perception if -- IF -- Mo falsely put words in the commissioner's mouth that drove John Carver out the door?
The media tend to frown on stuff like that -- IF that's what happened.
The evidence doesn't point in that direction. It points to JC stepping down as an unintented consequence.
Mo values handling the media as a highly sought after skill/attribute. The Toronto media are complicit in that arrangement. However, deliberate intention to deceive is a whole different story.
Garber a lier
I still stick to the theory that both TFC and Carver wanted a mutual split. Carver has, in my opinion, struggled here and probably realised it and TFC do, despite what people think, want some success.
The split suited both sides, Carver can leave and head off back to England to get back to just coaching and not being a head coach. TFC get to give Cummins a chance while they look for somebody else to bring in.
There's been so many holes in all the stories that it was kinda obvious things didn't add up. Both sides have been going out of their way to make each other look good and it really does seem like both sides had decided that Carver moving on was for the best.
There is no "evidence" of this or anything else. All we have is hearsay.
Mo's already told the Star he's the one who asked JC to go back on the field.
I've got a prediction for Ben: when he and others press Mo on this today, they won't get one new shred of info on this. Mo had his reasons, and he's not going to share them.
Mo and Carver have signed a confidentiality agreement, so that's how it's going to be.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
I think the truth has tried to come out, but the non-disclosure thing keeps rearing its head. I think you are bang on with the idea that we will get nothing new for quite some time as far as "evidence".
Road Trips: July 7 2007 Chicago, July 22nd 2007 Columbus, August 11 2007 NY, October 13 2007 LA, March 29 2008 Columbus, May 24th 2008 DC, May 26 2008 Montreal, June 28th 2008 NE, March 7-11-14 2009 Charleston, March 28 2009 Columbus, April 10 2010 New England, May 12 2010 Montreal, April 7 2012 Montreal, March 16 2013 Montreal , June 3 2014 Montreal, March 14 2015 Columbus
Twitter: @RPBPhil
In my perception, Mo and Carver were sharing the same job. I know it's not unheard of outside of north america, but in my world, the most effective coaches sign their own players, establish a rapport with potential signigs themselves and coach the team as they see fit with minimal or no interference.
Good or bad, the best coaches prefer things this way, and if we start dropping coaches because of meddling from upstairs, other coaches are going to view TFC as a poor prospect. It hurts us.
I'm not unhappy Carver has left, but this pressbox issue which Mo has admitted was an MLSE problem, leaves a bad taste.
You have a point.
I've being trying to find the press release announcing Carver's hiring (maybe someone can find the link). I remember it well.
As I recall, it talked about a closing on the DVP, Raptors tickets, a food drive and, oh yeah, by the way, at the end of the release.....we have a new coach, John Carver.
I remember thinking that this was a bad omen, it's not the way to set up a coach to succeed.
It never looked like the Rafa Benitez announcement, that's for sure.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Is it worthpointing out that if we got Sven Goran Erikkson as some posters discussed, that Mo's job would be redundant?
Erikkson isn't the kind of coach who would leave the signings to someone else and just get on with coaching what he has, and there is nothing that Mo can tell Erikkson about coaching a team.
Mo's survival depends on getting coaches with less experience than him, (not that carver was less experienced than him btw) which is scary.
Yah, but with Sven, we'd also be trying to sign everyone for huge pay packets. :P
Guys, lets face it...last thing Mo wanted is a coach in the press box...I mean that threatens his fragile petty existence...but its clear he meddled in the formation/lineup and JC stepped down...the rest of what happened in terms of how it went down and what they told the media IMO is just a reflection of the lack of class, honesty and professionalism of MO, and potentially Carver and potentially MO's leadership by continuing to accept this.
Last edited by wzhxvy; 05-02-2009 at 09:12 AM.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote