Onward! - Carver's story doesn't square

[LucaGol]

[QUOTE=sully;497086]wow...I think this could go on for a while, so I'll give you my response and leave it alone as I want to have my tea.. (by the way, I've noticed that we tend to disagree a lot, but as long as where all civil it's all good..I'll put my thought in bold to separate text)

Well, based on what I've read, JC was at the point where his frustration was too much for him...JC has also said repeately in the past that the press and fans should leave the players alone and that he bears responsibility.. and yes, he was deperate it seems...desperate to make an untenable position work in the midst of a meddling league office..

We have fundamental disagreements on the performance of the team. On these issues, I doubt either one of us can convince the other of the intricacies that we may or may not be observing during the run of play.

Bottom line:
1. JC says his "job is on the line"
2. Next game Carver is in the press box
3. New system in place for this game (not only to formation but with the inclusion of Dichio, Vitti and Velez), team plays drastically different ... interesting developments from a coach that believes his team "dominated" (JC's words) the better portion of the previous game only to be done in by incompetent refereeing
4. Appearance of Mo Johnston in on air interview
5. Carver reported to once again be in the press box for next game
6. MLS takes issue with is (which has yet to be confirmed from what I've seen) and tells him to take his place on the touchline
7. Carver resigns


That's it. Take away from it what you will.

[H Bomb]

Bottom line:
1. JC says his "job is on the line"
2. Next game Carver is in the press box
3. New system in place for this game (not only to formation but with the inclusion of Dichio, Vitti and Velez), team plays drastically different ... interesting developments from a coach that believes his team "dominated" (JC's words) the better portion of the previous game only to be done in by incompetent refereeing
4. Appearance of Mo Johnston in on air interview
5. Carver reported to once again be in the press box for next game
6. MLS takes issue with is (which has yet to be confirmed from what I've seen) and tells him to take his place on the touchline
7. Carver resigns


That's it. Take away from it what you will.

things you missed.

After Carver resigns Mo explains his leaving while leaving major holes in the story.

Today Carver does radio/newspaper interviews explaining why he left and his thought processes on these things. It needs to be repeated that you are just choosing to ignore giant chunks of info

[Blizzard]

Well, based on what I've read, JC was at the point where his frustration was too much for him...JC has also said repeately in the past that the press and fans should leave the players alone and that he bears responsibility.. and yes, he was deperate it seems...desperate to make an untenable position work in the midst of a meddling league office..

Agreed.

Has nobody here ever been so angry about a situation in the workplace that they haven't walked away of their own volition? It happens! It just happened again!

B

[LucaGol]

things you missed.

After Carver resigns Mo explains his leaving while leaving major holes in the story.

Today Carver does radio/newspaper interviews explaining why he left and his thought processes on these things. It needs to be repeated that you are just choosing to ignore giant chunks of info

Those "giant chunks of info" are focal to what I'm posting ...

The explanation for why he left is what I'm taking issue with.

[H Bomb]

exactly...you can assume they're lying all you want. Please, feel free. But every time I see you make a baseless speculative accusation I'll be all over it. You've earned that.

[LucaGol]

Agreed.

Has nobody here ever been so angry about a situation in the workplace that they haven't walked away of their own volition? It happens! It just happened again!

B

When you're disillusioned with your workplace, you don't tell people "your job is on the line".

By admitting that your "job is on the line" and your feeling pressure to perform, that would seem to indicate that your superiors are disillusioned with you and not vice versa.

[SoccMan]

Enough with all these silly excuses, a good coach can coach in any league and get results no matter what the rules are. John Carver gave it a try he failed it's as simple as that, no matter what every coach in this league coaches within the same type of rules and regulations and with the same type of referees, it's the same for every MLS coach. Carver failed it's as simple as that time to move on.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Agreed.

Has nobody here ever been so angry about a situation in the workplace that they haven't walked away of their own volition? It happens! It just happened again!

B

Yeah but his "workplace" is BMO Field for the most part and his employer is MLSE....

He keeps mentioning this douchebag ref named weyland and some other 4th official loser.....well...He would only have to "see" those guys every once in a while, they don't really poison the workplace environment do they???

So was is MLSE that was aligning with the League, and pressuring him to leave?? Who knows maybe they gave him some "shut up" money....

[LucaGol]

exactly...you can assume they're lying all you want. Please, feel free. But every time I see you make a baseless speculative accusation I'll be all over it. You've earned that.

Where are these baseless speculative accusations? ... All I've done is state the "known's" in this equation.

I've left the speculating up in the air.

[H Bomb]

jeeeeeesus...that really long bullshity post on the previous page...that one that says "I'm still looking for a valid answer to these questions". Those questions have been answered....again you dont have to believe those answers...but you seem to believe you know what you're talking about so you must believe anything you want to. You insinuate an alterior motive that you have no information on....therefor you are useless... the mods tolerate you....but i wont. enjoy

[rocker]

If you've think we've played fluid football before, I disagree with you. Not to the level that we've all witnessed in the past 2 games.

Actually, I think our most fluid game was Game 1 in KC.
Should been 5-2... TFC thoroughly dominated huge portions of that match, playing a fluid style.
It was a joy to watch.

[sully]

The explanation for why he left is what I'm taking issue with.

What are the sorts of explanations do you think there could be?

That Mo fired him? that the players rebelled against him? that he lost interest in Toronto and couldn't settle here? That his health meant he couldn't continue? That his wife missed Newcasle? That he was in a state in depression because of Newcastke impending relegation?

I'm trying to understand your perspective but I can't. You could maybe help me out...what is an example of an explantion that you think it could be?

You take issue with someone bacause he felt his position was untenable for the reasons he has already outlined. Please tell me what sort of explantion you would like...just an example - I won't hold it to you..just trying to understand what you are getting at

[LucaGol]

jeeeeeesus...that really long bullshity post on the previous page...that one that says "I'm still looking for a valid answer to these questions". Those questions have been answered....again you dont have to believe those answers...but you seem to believe you know what you're talking about so you must believe anything you want to. You insinuate an alterior motive that you have no information on....therefor you are useless... the mods tolerate you....but i wont. enjoy

You are right, I don't have any information. I'm not Mo Johnston and and I'm not John Carver. You got me.

So let's all just believe what we've been told, because no one's ever told a lie or a spun a story through the media before

What has been said may in fact be true, who knows. All I'm doing is trying is to imagine a scenario, which appears to add up in some capacity, that what we've been told is not entirely the truth, and posting it in a discussion forum. Imagine that.

Uh K.

Now stop beefing with me. We disagree. The End.

[H Bomb]

What has been said may in fact be true, who knows. All I'm doing is trying is to imagine a scenario, which appears to add up in some capacity, that what we've been told is not entirely the truth, and posting it in a discussion forum. Imagine that.


Now stop beefing with me. We disagree. The End.

what you're doing is finding a way to be even more negative about a negative topic...this seems to be your only talent...You've said "here's a bunch of info, lets ignore it and bitch"....and no I wont stop "beefing" with you on here, so get used to me.

[johnmolinaro]

I'd like to think that of course the head-coach has the final say on what system is put in place, but I think it's unlikely that the head-coach doesn't work with his assistants..there is no sole author

Regarding the whole "job is on the line" comment, I wouldn't read too much into that.

People always say stuff in the heat of the moment that doesn't make logical sense, comes out wrong or is just plain hyperbole.

Case in point: when Carver told reporters last season that he would quit if Mo didn't sign a DP by the time the 2009 season starts. That was just John speaking off the cuff and not choosing his words carefully. I don't think anybody at the time expected him to follow through. Instead, we all recognized it for what it was.

From everything from that I've gathered from my sources, John left of his own accord and was not pushed out. Whether he was right or wrong to leave so early in the season is another debate entirely.

I'm interviewing John on Thursday so I'll share anything interesting from that conversation with you all.

John Molinaro

[LucaGol]

What are the sorts of explanations do you think there could be?

That Mo fired him? that the players rebelled against him? that he lost interest in Toronto and couldn't settle here? That his health meant he couldn't continue? That his wife missed Newcasle? That he was in a state in depression because of Newcastke impending relegation?

I'm trying to understand your perspective but I can't. You could maybe help me out...what is an example of an explantion that you think it could be?

You take issue with someone bacause he felt his position was untenable for the reasons he has already outlined. Please tell me what sort of explantion you would like...just an example - I won't hold it to you..just trying to understand what you are getting at

You did a pretty good job there yourself ... pick one of those and insert my name beside it.

[rocker]

So let's all just believe what we've been told, because no one's ever told a lie or a spun a story through the media before .

Yeah, and nobody's ever told the truth the media...

[LucaGol]

what you're doing is finding a way to be even more negative about a negative topic...this seems to be your only talent...You've said "here's a bunch of info, lets ignore it and bitch"....and no I wont stop "beefing" with you on here, so get used to me.

I believe the title of the thread has something to do with Carver's story not squaring up. No?

[sully]

You did a pretty good job there yourself ... pick one of those and insert my name beside it.

ok then....we are going in a circle. You don't believe John Carver and I do and it seems nobody is going to change your mind.

[H Bomb]

so if the thread was about holocaust denial you could get away with that within the thread without being called out? (EXTREME EXAMPLE ALERT!!!!!)

and as I mentioned in a previous post, information is a journalists friend, Ben may have some, he may be speculating...and as I also mentioned earlier, if it's just his editorializing then I dont find it interesting

[TheRenter]

I find it quite easy to believe that Carver had had has fill. Its not like he is the type that could just shrug off perceived injustices or inadquacies - they would eat at him 24/7. He lives and breathes football, every moment of his waking is dedicated to making his team better.

If he truly believed his mere presence was hurting the team - he would quit.

I suggest you review some of our earlier games - there is not a great deal of differnce; just a continuing steady improvement game to game.

completely seconded!

sad to see Carver go, but on the other side of things; I am glad to see him move on....

...JOHN "THE MARTYR" CARVER!!

good luck to you brother, wherever it is you end up..

[LucaGol]

ok then....we are going in a circle. You don't believe John Carver and I do and it seems nobody is going to change your mind.

You omitted the part where no one is going to change yours.

I'm not saying I don't believe what I've been told. I'm just skeptical of the truth as has been laid out in what I feel is it's truncated form.

Why is that lynch-worthy?

[sully]

You omitted the part where no one is going to change yours.

I'm not saying I don't believe what I've been told. I'm just skeptical of the truth as has been laid out in what I feel is it's truncated form.

Why is that lynch-worthy?

I don't have a reason to doubt the rationale the Carver presented today on FAN590.... and by the way, usually things are not straightforward in life and in any relationship and it was a dysfunctional relationship that Carver had with the MLS FO.

Lynch-worthy? - I don't get what you mean.

[sully]

[quote=LucaGol;497188]
I'm not saying I don't believe what I've been told. I'm just skeptical of the truth as has been laid out in what I feel is it's truncated form.

quote]

Calling John and Ben! When the dust settles you might write a lenghtly and thorough piece on this episode...although I think the MLS FO would be displeased and JC's private life may be invaded.

[LucaGol]

I don't have a reason to doubt the rationale the Carver presented today on FAN590.... and by the way, usually things are not straightforward in life and in any relationship and it was a dysfunctional relationship that Carver had with the MLS FO.

Lynch-worthy? - I don't get what you mean.

It seems hard to imagine that Carver's rapport with the MLS was damaged to the extent that JC would throw away a good paying job, a team that was his, and say goodbye to supporters he loved, just to prove some sort of point. Was all the good not worth fighting through all "bad"? (ie Garber, MLS refs)

To be honest, at the stage he is in his career, coaching TFC was a dream job.

[sully]

It seems hard to imagine that Carver's rapport with the MLS was damaged to the extent that JC would throw away a good paying job, a team that was his, and say goodbye to supporters he loved, just to prove some sort of point. Was all the good not worth fighting through all the bad? (ie Garber, MLS refs)

To be honest, at the stage he is in his career, coaching TFC was a dream job.

Well, yes it is hard to imagine..but this is the "general" fact as JC himself has said...there is no good out of this whole thing..why would he fight those in power..to what end..who knows maybe he's made his money by this stage in the life..and he said that his remaining in his position was damaging to the team...and JC would have no reason that I can think of in lying to the fans, press and anyone else interested...

[johnmolinaro]

[quote=sully;497202]

I'm not saying I don't believe what I've been told. I'm just skeptical of the truth as has been laid out in what I feel is it's truncated form.

quote]

Calling John and Ben! When the dust settles you might write a lenghtly and thorough piece on this episode...although I think the MLS FO would be displeased and JC's private life may be invaded.

I'll write something after I interview Carver on Thursday and that will likely be the end of it for me.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

"I'm still looking for a valid answer to these questions". Those questions have been answered....again you dont have to believe those answers...but you seem to believe you know what you're talking about so you must believe anything you want to. You insinuate an alterior motive that you have no information on

Why r u giving LucaGol such a hard time....

How about this angle.....

Mo Johnston, Robbo and Brennan all were shocked that Carver completed, signed and handed in his resignation....Even they are baffled....

So if they are baffled, why can't we be baffled???

Every team/coach has a REF that they dislike because there happens to be a major rift in the calls....

A lot of people in the NBA say the League gave prime directives to make calls in favour of the Celtics last year...

Or a certain REF making calls one sided because he had people laying bets down for himself and others, which the FBI cracked...

But even with all that, never once have you seen a coach QUIT because of it!?

[sully]

[quote=johnmolinaro;497210]

I'll write something after I interview Carver on Thursday and that will likely be the end of it for me.

Thanks John...please tell him that he is always welcome at BMO Field on behalf of myself and I hope most others. Personally, I view him as one of us now....a fan of TFC (even if we are second to Newcastle).

[TFCREDNWHITE]

It seems hard to imagine that Carver's rapport with the MLS was damaged to the extent that JC would throw away a good paying job, a team that was his, and say goodbye to supporters he loved, just to prove some sort of point. Was all the good not worth fighting through all "bad"? (ie Garber, MLS refs)

To be honest, at the stage he is in his career, coaching TFC was a dream job.

I agree...It just doesn't ADD up......

I mean fuck, I have huge problems with how the league is run in terms of referee's, salary cap, playing games on FiFa International dates, etc...etc.....but even with all that anger built up inside of me, i still continue to watch the league and support our team....