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    Default Carver story in the UK Sun

    Carver in a Major upset

    Apr 26 2009 by Neil Farrington, Sunday Sun
    FORMER Newcastle coach John Carver is returning to Tyneside after quitting as boss of Major League Soccer side Toronto FC.
    However, the one-time United No 2 last night played down suggestions he is set to join Alan Shearer’s coaching staff back at St James’s Park.
    Carver’s decision to quit was prompted by his frustration with MLS’s top brass rather than dissatisfaction with Toronto or any prospect of a job at Newcastle.

    Carver told the Sunday Sun: “There is nothing else in the pipeline, and the people at Toronto have been fantastic to me.
    “It is the MLS with whom I have issues.”

    More here:


    http://www.sundaysun.co.uk/sport/new...9310-23473525/

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    Sorry already posted...

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    Well if that doesn't make it any more obvious that the little bitch dumped his team then I don't know what will. Carver is now a quitter in my books. I'm sorry TFC ever hired him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFCAlbertaGirl View Post
    Carver in a Major upset

    Apr 26 2009 by Neil Farrington, Sunday Sun
    FORMER Newcastle coach John Carver is returning to Tyneside after quitting as boss of Major League Soccer side Toronto FC.
    However, the one-time United No 2 last night played down suggestions he is set to join Alan Shearer’s coaching staff back at St James’s Park.
    Carver’s decision to quit was prompted by his frustration with MLS’s top brass rather than dissatisfaction with Toronto or any prospect of a job at Newcastle.

    Carver told the Sunday Sun: “There is nothing else in the pipeline, and the people at Toronto have been fantastic to me.
    “It is the MLS with whom I have issues.”

    More here:


    http://www.sundaysun.co.uk/sport/new...9310-23473525/
    Wow I said yesterday that I though he quit because the league was a joke and I was right!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pachuco View Post
    Well if that doesn't make it any more obvious that the little bitch dumped his team then I don't know what will. Carver is now a quitter in my books. I'm sorry TFC ever hired him.
    if this is true then the league are in fact to blame. League management have no place telling a manager how he should manage his own business. If Carver or any other manager feels that his team is better served by him being in the stands to get a better view of the play so that he can relay his observations to the touchline via phone then that is his choice. If this is true then Carver was put in an impossible situation.

    And by the way, this is a public forum, so if you want to insult people like you did above, bear that in mind please.
    Fail to prepare, prepare to fail.
    Roy Keane

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC_Niagara View Post
    Wow I said yesterday that I though he quit because the league was a joke and I was right!
    Let's all remember what Carver's resume was before he got here.

    He'd been a caretaker manager for Leeds in the Chamionship for 5 games. Then he became assistant manager for League One Luton. Then he came to TFC. That's it.

    This idea that John Carver is too good for MLS is the biggest load I've heard in a long time. It's also insulting to a number of very good existing MLS coaches.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    ^^^I would tend to agree with this comment. I would imagine that dealing with frustrations with management, officials, and league brass is part and parcel with any managerial job in football. You hear the top managers complaining of it all the time.
    Seems to me that maybe Carver has grown up drinking the same Newcastle water as Kevin Keegan and isn't too interested in finishing a job.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pachuco View Post
    Well if that doesn't make it any more obvious that the little bitch dumped his team then I don't know what will. Carver is now a quitter in my books. I'm sorry TFC ever hired him.
    Man, generally I don't agree with you, but I respect your opinion. Mostly cause you back it up. I just don't see your point here though. If the guy felt he was constrained by the league and unable to succeed, why would he stay? If your company at work told you you weren't allowed to use your greatest assets, and your job/pay was performance based, how long would you stay?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Let's all remember what Carver's resume was before he got here.

    He'd been a caretaker manager for Leeds in the Chamionship for 5 games. Then he became assistant manager for League One Luton. Then he came to TFC. That's it.

    This idea that John Carver is too good for MLS is the biggest load I've heard in a long time. It's also insulting to a number of very good existing MLS coaches.
    Its go nothing to do with being too good. He was fed up losing players for internationals, getting done by the referrees, and the final straw....not being able to sit in the press box for games? A lot of people on here have complained about the same things. Good on Carver for standing against to what he and many believe is a poorly run mickey mouse "professional" league. The refs are shit in other leagues agreed but the international calender and not being allowed to sit in the press box for the game are two of the most rediculous things I have ever heard. Maybe it doesn't bend the other managers but i'll tell you this, ts partly why the soccer community in the US hasn't latched on to this league.
    Last edited by MUFC_Niagara; 04-26-2009 at 10:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waggy View Post
    Man, generally I don't agree with you, but I respect your opinion. Mostly cause you back it up. I just don't see your point here though. If the guy felt he was constrained by the league and unable to succeed, why would he stay? If your company at work told you you weren't allowed to use your greatest assets, and your job/pay was performance based, how long would you stay?
    Excellent way of putting it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waggy View Post
    Man, generally I don't agree with you, but I respect your opinion. Mostly cause you back it up. I just don't see your point here though. If the guy felt he was constrained by the league and unable to succeed, why would he stay? If your company at work told you you weren't allowed to use your greatest assets, and your job/pay was performance based, how long would you stay?
    People are wondering then why he didn't leave in the off-season. The league is no different now than it was last year.

    Everyone's been really upfront that Carver had a huge say in player aquisitions since he arrived and that he had little or no input from upper management in his choosing the line-up or running the team - until last Wednesday when some would say his "greatest asset" - Dichio, was finally used.

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    I think he was trying to make it work Beach Red but ultimately got to fed up. I don't blame him. Was there something that indicated the FO told him toplay Dichio? I didn't know that.....if true that's interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC_Niagara View Post
    Its go nothing to do with being too good. He was fed up losing players for internationals, getting done by the referrees, and the final straw....not being able to sit in the press box for games? A lot of people on here have complained about the same things. Good on Carver for standing against to what he and many believe is a poorly run mickey mouse "professional" league. The refs are shit in other leagues agreed but the international calender and not being allowed to sit in the press box for the game are two of the most rediculous things I have ever heard. Maybe it doesn't bend the other managers but i'll tell you this, ts partly why the soccer community in the US hasn't latched on to this league.
    This is ludicrous.

    1) "Fed up with losing players to internationals"..... This was a conscious team selection decision made by TFC (Mo). Many MLS teams are hardly affected by this.

    2) "Being done in by referees".....too much of this is becoming accepted wisdom around here. Carver was a baby about this from day one. It's just not true.

    3) "Not beling allowed to sit in the press box"...I've got some advice for you. Don't believe everything (anything?) you read in the English Sun.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waggy View Post
    Man, generally I don't agree with you, but I respect your opinion. Mostly cause you back it up. I just don't see your point here though. If the guy felt he was constrained by the league and unable to succeed, why would he stay? If your company at work told you you weren't allowed to use your greatest assets, and your job/pay was performance based, how long would you stay?
    This is true, but I guess the question is what are hurdles in your job that you are expected to negotiate and what are hurdles that are truly unwarranted and make quitting necessary?
    We all know the refs are horrible in the MLS, but any coach in any league has beef with the refs. For me, dealing with bad officiating is a hurdle you're expected to negotiate.
    Having the league protect it's interests above your own? Same category for me. Managers in all leagues are fined for talking badly about refs and/or the league. It's shitty, but it's how it works, and it's not unexpected.
    Losing players against your will to international breaks? Sure MLS has it the worst, but go to any sports newscast before any int'l break and you'll hear every manager in the world making the same complaints.
    I won't go on...
    Maybe Carver didn't anticipate the degree to which these things would be a problem in MLS. But I think to assume they were unexpected, or unheard of is a touch naive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beach_Red View Post
    People are wondering then why he didn't leave in the off-season. The league is no different now than it was last year.

    Everyone's been really upfront that Carver had a huge say in player aquisitions since he arrived and that he had little or no input from upper management in his choosing the line-up or running the team - until last Wednesday when some would say his "greatest asset" - Dichio, was finally used.

    I've been having a running argument with one of my friends about Fouls. I actually went back and looked at the fouls for and against us every game, and the fouls the team we played got the week before to compare. The results were staggeringly scewed to us getting called for a LOT more fouls. The only rational way I could explain it (outside of conspiracy theories anyways) is style of play. Carver likes a more hardnosed style of play, that would be perfectly acceptable in the Premiership or most top flight leagues. But in the MLS it isn't. So my buddy says, why doesn't he change then? Its not like the refs are changing.

    My response to that is the same as my response to your point: Its a growing league thats constantly changing. Carver seems to genuinly love Toronto, and the club, and really really wanted it to work. He hoped the league would change as its profile grew, but he saw it wasn't happening, and actually might have gotten worse. I really don't think in the same position too many people on this board would do otherwise. But he wanted to give us, and the league, every opportunity to come around more towards 'his' style, which I can totally understand. I think we'd all like it if MLS was run like a real footy league.


    And to post above: you're absolutely right. Every coach has to deal with some of those to some degree. I think in this case it was just the amount of times those issues popped up. Not once or twice a season, but practically weekly. But this is one of those things we just won't ever really know until Carver truly explains himself
    Last edited by Waggy; 04-26-2009 at 10:50 AM.

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    ^^^Of course we'll never know.
    As for your point about the league changing, I can't imagine that Carver has been here long enough to expect to see any sort of systemic change in the league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    This is ludicrous.

    1) "Fed up with losing players to internationals"..... This was a conscious team selection decision made by TFC (Mo). Many MLS teams are hardly affected by this.
    How much input do you think Carver had in player selection? Everything we were told since he arrived was that he had a huge input.

    And the best players on the team are still the ones from season one (Robinson, Dichio) and draft picks. It really looks like the players Caver really liked - Ricketts, Robert - were the ones who didn't work out.

    Of course, we don't really know what went on with the team, but it doesn't seem like Carver can complain he didn't get a chance to run the team the way he wanted. He may have simply decided that MLS is not for him. I understand that, it's not for everyone. I can't stand watching those British teams try and play hockey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    3) "Not beling allowed to sit in the press box"...I've got some advice for you. Don't believe everything (anything?) you read in the English Sun.
    This isn't actually the evil Rupert Murdoch Sun that a lot of people rightly hate, it's just a small regional paper that serves the North east of England.

    That's the only reason this story's in there, the local interest of the geordie abroad, no way this makes the national press over there, same reason they have reports of the Darlington game.

    Liverpool fans, click away, it's all good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beach_Red View Post
    How much input do you think Carver had in player selection? Everything we were told since he arrived was that he had a huge input.

    And the best players on the team are still the ones from season one (Robinson, Dichio) and draft picks. It really looks like the players Caver really liked - Ricketts, Robert - were the ones who didn't work out.

    Of course, we don't really know what went on with the team, but it doesn't seem like Carver can complain he didn't get a chance to run the team the way he wanted. He may have simply decided that MLS is not for him. I understand that, it's not for everyone. I can't stand watching those British teams try and play hockey.
    I agree, Carver had real input. My point was that Mo was responsible for most (all?) of the international signings.

    If Carver didn't understand that by having internationals, it would create these problems, that's his problem, not the league's.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC_Niagara View Post
    I think he was trying to make it work Beach Red but ultimately got to fed up. I don't blame him. Was there something that indicated the FO told him toplay Dichio? I didn't know that.....if true that's interesting.
    Oh, I'm sure he was trying to make it work. And sometimes he did, the team played some great games when he was the coach. They just never found any consistency. Maybe he realized in this league they never would and it would just continue as it is. I don't know how big a factor it was, but imagine two losing seasons as head coach on a resume - hard to make it look good.

    And it's true we don't know who made up the line-up for the Chivas game, we just know that it was the best game the team has played.

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    Fair enough. It was only a little over a year. Feels a lot longer to me though. Still, given his passion for the club and the city, I just can't believe he'd leave unless there was damn good cause. And I can totally understand being ROYALLY pissed off if MLS told him he wasn't allowed to sit upstairs and view the game. Thats the thing, it was probably just the straw that broke the camels back. Besides, he saw the talent coming in to the club in the offseason, why wouldn't he give it a go?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I agree, Carver had real input. My point was that Mo was responsible for most (all?) of the international signings.

    If Carver didn't understand that by having internationals, it would create these problems, that's his problem, not the league's.
    It is a tough league to coach in, for sure. A lot of those "internastionals" are Americans and Canadians which the league requires on the roster.

    It's impossible to go through the roster and know which was a player Mo wanted and which was a player Carver wanted. Except, of course, for the players who've been here since the first season (and Guevara which was clearly a Mo connection). For any player who had a trial Carver probably had a huge amount of input.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waggy View Post
    Man, generally I don't agree with you, but I respect your opinion. Mostly cause you back it up. I just don't see your point here though. If the guy felt he was constrained by the league and unable to succeed, why would he stay? If your company at work told you you weren't allowed to use your greatest assets, and your job/pay was performance based, how long would you stay?
    Well let me put it to you this way. Carver signed a contract extension at the beginning of the year well knowing what the rules of this league are. He took on the responsibility of running a football team with the understanding he would be here until the season ends. MLSE invested alot in Carver (not just money) it's clear they brought in players Carver wanted.

    So Carver has a problem with the league and he quits? well Carver quitting doesn't solve anything for the team, because the team itself still has to live under the same roof with MLS and same rules. Therefore, he's done nothing but abandon this team and the players. He's a quitter in my books, I don't like quitters. I formed an opinion of Carver last summer and he just proved me right.

    I don't always get my way at work, but that doesn't make me a quitter. If I signeda contract for 1 year at work I would live up to that contract, SPECIALLY if it was going to affect the entire project. You don't burn bridges like that, I hope this bites Carver in the ass someday. Like when MLSE buys an EPL team and hires Shearer as the boss. MLSE then denies working with Carver again. These things can happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sully View Post
    if this is true then the league are in fact to blame. League management have no place telling a manager how he should manage his own business. If Carver or any other manager feels that his team is better served by him being in the stands to get a better view of the play so that he can relay his observations to the touchline via phone then that is his choice. If this is true then Carver was put in an impossible situation.

    And by the way, this is a public forum, so if you want to insult people like you did above, bear that in mind please.
    I actually hope Carver reads this, cause he deserves nothing more then to see that he's a quitter.

    How could you possibly blame the league? do you see any other coach in the MLS quitting because of the league? NO. He signed a contract with the team and being this his second year he understood real well what the rules are. Every other coach is handicapped by the same rules, so in the end, it's not a handicapp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I agree, Carver had real input. My point was that Mo was responsible for most (all?) of the international signings.

    If Carver didn't understand that by having internationals, it would create these problems, that's his problem, not the league's.
    No IT IS the league's problem. It holds back the quality of the league, the teams don't write the rules, the league does.

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    I suspect its a combination of being fed up wtih the MLS and not being able to take the heat (he was trying to play a formation with the wrong players etc)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pachuco View Post
    How could you possibly blame the league? do you see any other coach in the MLS quitting because of the league? NO. He signed a contract with the team and being this his second year he understood real well what the rules are. Every other coach is handicapped by the same rules, so in the end, it's not a handicapp.
    your point is taken, but we know this league is anything but consistent regarding rules..e.g. take rules around expansion, referee standards, international dates, inconsistent application of DP rules, Beckam fiasco... and I don't know if other managers have quit because of the league or not..
    Fail to prepare, prepare to fail.
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    so he tucks his tail between his legs and runs back home....... what a great manager. (sarcasim)

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFCAlbertaGirl View Post
    Carver’s decision to quit was prompted by his frustration with MLS’s top brass rather than dissatisfaction with Toronto or any prospect of a job at Newcastle.

    Carver told the Sunday Sun: “There is nothing else in the pipeline, and the people at Toronto have been fantastic to me.
    “It is the MLS with whom I have issues.”
    all of this here in a nutshell pleases me, however i can't help but voice my dissapointment in how others may view the league as a whole because of incidents such as this

    smartin up MLS, or you will never be as big as what is possible

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    Quote Originally Posted by sully View Post
    your point is taken, but we know this league is anything but consistent regarding rules..e.g. take rules around expansion, referee standards, international dates, inconsistent application of DP rules, Beckam fiasco... and I don't know if other managers have quit because of the league or not..
    Look I'm with you on that, I know the league is really messed up with some of the rules and insconsistencies. But he signed a contract knowing that. It's a terrible thing to say 6 games into a season that he left because he didn't agree with the rules. If that was the case, he should have left 6 games ago.

    It's like a project manager signing to run a project for 1 year that the company has made a significant investment in. Next thing you know, the PM bumps heads with the same executives he worked on previous projects with so he decides to quit. What do you think would happen to that person in the business world? He'd burn his bridges and would be lucky to work again with anything related to those same execs. He'd also lose his reference and would have to explain why he left a commitment after a few months. This stuff doesn't fly in the business world, it shouldn't fly in professional sports either.

    If I was an owner of a team in the EPL, I'd be really worried about hiring someone who's been known to quit in the middle of a season when he didn't get his way.

 

 

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