Open Letter to Toronto FC RE: Media

[Hitcho]

I think there are two issues/complaints that are vaild....the "firm" references and the accusation of racism. Those two errors are very serious and flat out wrong.

The rest...get over it and grow up. You expect the FO to babysit the media and take the heat for your actions?

Don't want people from the national post writing articles about people pissing on fences...don't post pictures of it.

Don't want the sun to have a picture of a guy getting tased on the front page? Don't post youtube videos of it.

I saw a picture on flickr of someone throwing the broken railing at Columbus...how did I find it? It was posted here. How do you think the other stuff was found? How many threads do you think are used as material for articles? Positive AND negative.

I'm not saying we should cover up negative behaviour...I'm just saying people have to be smarter and realize that pimping yourself in the media and online as the biggest group, will get you a lot of attention. Positive and negative attention. People need to be adults and understand and handle this.

It seems to me like people like to bask in the positive attention...but a little bit of self inflicted negative attention and they cry to their mommy (MLSE) for help.

Like I said...I think the FO should use their influence to squash the "firm" and "racisim" stuff...that's wrong and unwarrented.

The other stuff...it's up to the groups to figure out. Dont' want the finger poitned at you when things arent' rosey?
Then don't be the biggest f-ing target.

Again, and this goes for everyone posting "get over it" type posts, the complaint is NOT about fair and accurate reporting. If a whole bunch of people piss on a fence at an away game, then that can be reported. If there is one idiot who gets arrested for being unruly, then it's news and it;s fair game for the press.

What is NOT acceptable, and what people are complainign about, is to take an isolated incident or two and use them to paint a picture of 20,000 thugs who hurl abuse and projectiles at the police, opposing players and anyone else who gets in their way to the point where the general public in the GTA starts to worry about just what the hell is going on at BMO Field and is it safe to bring my kids there or even speak to people they know to be TFC supporters.

Put it this way - if you got caught up in a street fight by accident, threw a punch in self defence and ran away, how would you feel about seeing your picture on the front page of the Star with an arrticle describing you as a hooligan and a thug, not safe to be around and generally destroying your character and reputation, which was seen by your family, friends and colleagues and people in the street who didn;t even know you but believed it and recoiled on seeing you in public? Do you think thatw ould be fair reporting? Because it's not all that far off what is happening to TFC right now.

Report what happens, fine. Make a story out of it, fine. But don't blow it up into some armageddon type scenario and slander 20,000+ fans when in fact BMO Field is probably less of a venue for that kind of thing than the ACC and Rogers Centre. It's the degree of hyperbole that most people are upset about, not the fact that the few unsavoury incidents have been reported.

Having said that, you make a good point about not feeding the fires with posts of material the press would not otherwise have and can then use to enflame the situation.

[Mark in Ottawa]

As a kind of post-Columbus review.
I had some beers and discussed the events in Columbus with one of our RPB senior-statesman last night.
Here's a few points I wish to bring up regarding the touchstone NOW to be refered to as Columbus.
1 We brought an army of support. (all 3 times).
2 They don't like us. (Mayor, FO, supporters, etc. have gone on record).
3 We don't like them. (lack of toilets for 2,000+ visiting supporters, mace, tazing, etc.).
4 Why in the fuck would we even consider injecting more $$ into that fucking hole when other cities with a lot more potential are awaiting a spot in the MLS? (Philly, Portland, Montreal, etc.).
Hey Paul?
If you talk to some of the TFC 'Road Warriors' you will hear nothing but praise about our hosts in L.A., New England, D.C., and Charelston.
We travel well everywhere but 1 place!
So why in the fuck should we go back?
OOOOOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhCAAAAAANAADA!
KD.

^^ +1

[olegunnar]

Again, and this goes for everyone posting "get over it" type posts, the complaint is NOT about fair and accurate reporting. If a whole bunch of people piss on a fence at an away game, then that can be reported. If there is one idiot who gets arrested for being unruly, then it's news and it;s fair game for the press.

What is NOT acceptable, and what people are complainign about, is to take an isolated incident or two and use them to paint a picture of 20,000 thugs who hurl abuse and projectiles at the police, opposing players and anyone else who gets in their way to the point where the general public in the GTA starts to worry about just what the hell is going on at BMO Field and is it safe to bring my kids there or even speak to people they know to be TFC supporters.

Put it this way - if you got caught up in a street fight by accident, threw a punch in self defence and ran away, how would you feel about seeing your picture on the front page of the Star with an arrticle describing you as a hooligan and a thug, not safe to be around and generally destroying your character and reputation, which was seen by your family, friends and colleagues and people in the street who didn;t even know you but believed it and recoiled on seeing you in public? Do you think thatw ould be fair reporting? Because it's not all that far off what is happening to TFC right now.

Report what happens, fine. Make a story out of it, fine. But don't blow it up into some armageddon type scenario and slander 20,000+ fans when in fact BMO Field is probably less of a venue for that kind of thing than the ACC and Rogers Centre. It's the degree of hyperbole that most people are upset about, not the fact that the few unsavoury incidents have been reported.

Having said that, you make a good point about not feeding the fires with posts of material the press would not otherwise have and can then use to enflame the situation.

Again and this goes for everyone posting "it's no fair they're painting with a broad brush" type posts.

You don't like the attention? Then don't seek it out.

For example...crap happens at a Blue Jay game. who did it? I dunno...some random drunk. There's no organized groups or at least none that the mainstream have ever heard of.

Contrast that with...

Crap happens at a TFC game...who did it? Well I've heard of RPB...They do headshaves and sold a calendar of FSWC and they have their president on the fan590...they have signs and scarves I see everywhere...and that giant BBQ everyweek.

Lazy/biased journo thinks...They're organized...they're all for one...must be typical behaviour for the whole group...pretty believeable for people that dont' know better too.

What warrents a story more...a random drunk...or a group of organized drunks?
What's the easier assumption to justify as a problem issue...a random person or a group?

Who's the easier/bigger target?

[Arnie Knows]

NOBODY cares anymore about the Columbus incident .. Seriously its long over except for on the supporters boards..
We need to take a peek outside in reality .. All things are not TFC centric.

get over it ... Its OVER

[eustacchio]

^ I get your point, but it doesn't excuse lazy journalism, which I think is the bigger point.


ps the arrow is pointing past the above comment (Arnie posted before I could).

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Im not going back to Columbus.

Please see King Dave's Post....

I'd rather spend my money elsewhere........

[alexintoronto]

... Its OVER

I think it's time to move on. Do we really want this to be the focus of the season?

Merge all anti-reporter threads and let the mega thread die a slow death. It's taken up enough of our time.

Wear your TFC gear and if someone calls you a hooligan tell them not to believe everything they read, and that the Easter bunny isn't real either.

[tfc007]

Paul,I have a neighbour who has been bugging me to take him to TFC game for two years now,So I invited him to this weekends game against FC Dallas,I invited him before the season began,now he comes and knocks on my door and said he is not interested in attending this weekend,I asked him why he changed his mind.He didnt really give me an answer,but I know he has a subscription of the Sun and Star delivered daily to his house.I am almost convinced he saw those articles and said fuck it.If he ever asks again in the future,I will tell him to head to the box office.

[GBV]

NOBODY cares anymore about the Columbus incident .. Seriously its long over except for on the supporters boards..
We need to take a peek outside in reality .. All things are not TFC centric.

get over it ... Its OVER

agreed

[Phil]

Are you guys serious?

You are actually going to think about not wearing the colours because of what other people may think about you?

I wore my TFC collard shirt to work today

I think Jack nailed it, at some peoples work it may be an issue.

Come game day or in my spare time, I will continue to wear my TFC/SG stuff, and I think most will too.

[mlsintoronto]

Fortunately I think this is starting to blow over but you know that the media (whether they realize it or it just happens this way) will continue to compare things at BMO Field to the very worst of football's past.

We are correct to look at arrests in the NFL (for example) or fist fights in the 500-level of the Jays and ask "where's the balance?" but unfortunately we are in a sport that has some baggage. We all need to continue to do what we do, and work hard to stay above reproach...I know all of you sleep well knowing that what you are about.

The view is always better from the high road.

PS I don't mean to suggest that I'm rolling over on this. I will continue to do my best from my chair to keep the media well-informed. I'm still livid over the past week's press, in particular the damage done by one writer.

[Wagner]

Fortunately I think this is starting to blow over but you know that the media (whether they realize it or it just happens this way) will continue to compare things at BMO Field to the very worst of football's past.

We are correct to look at arrests in the NFL (for example) or fist fights in the 500-level of the Jays and ask "where's the balance?" but unfortunately we are in a sport that has some baggage. We all need to continue to do what we do, and work hard to stay above reproach...I know all of you sleep well knowing that what you are about.

The view is always better from the high road.

PS I don't mean to suggest that I'm rolling over on this. I will continue to do my best from my chair to keep the media well-informed. I'm still livid over the past week's press, in particular the damage done by one writer.

go get'em mr. Paul.
it's nice to know that you at least acknowledge what we're going through.

Let's go kick some Texas Ass this saturday!!!

[Gixmo]

I had no doubts that Paul was with us from Day One...

Goes back to my previous - Move on, bring the noise Saturday.. So that all the Star can write about is the tremors felt BMO all match long...

[Arnie Knows]

I cannot believe that young people went to Columbus got drunk and mixed it up a bit ..

shocking , people from TO are insane ..
I have never seen young people anywhere else get drunk and stir it up..

Tazerlicious

[Kevvv]

I cannot believe that young people went to Columbus got drunk and mixed it up a bit ..

shocking , people from TO are insane ..
I have never seen young people anywhere else get drunk and stir it up..

Tazerlicious

Well, exactly. If only the media picked up on this theme instead of attributing it to the sport.

Fortunately I think this is starting to blow over but you know that the media (whether they realize it or it just happens this way) will continue to compare things at BMO Field to the very worst of football's past.

We are correct to look at arrests in the NFL (for example) or fist fights in the 500-level of the Jays and ask "where's the balance?" but unfortunately we are in a sport that has some baggage. We all need to continue to do what we do, and work hard to stay above reproach...I know all of you sleep well knowing that what you are about.

The view is always better from the high road.

PS I don't mean to suggest that I'm rolling over on this. I will continue to do my best from my chair to keep the media well-informed. I'm still livid over the past week's press, in particular the damage done by one writer.

That's the thing, soccer has the word 'hooligan' associated with it (not that the reported acts qualify as such), but there's no comparable word for bad behaviour in the NFL, baseball, or hockey.

[Blazer]

This is a battle not worth fighting. We are a very small minority of people who know the truth compared to a larger segment of society who will forever believe in what they hear from the various misread media outlets. In a sense, it’s the misinformed boobs in society who are the fools for drinking the Kool-Aid that is fed to them instead of investigating on their own what TFC fans are truly about. Do you believe everything that you hear in the media? Of course not, you take the information given with a grain of salt and investigate further if you feel so inclined to do so. And, I don’t care one way or the other how those who choose to live behind blindfolds in life perceive us. Similar to convincing a young child that Dimetapp is good for a common cold, we face the unenviable task of negotiating our legitimacy with the masses that have been lead to believe otherwise. So why bother?

Fact is, the onus is on all TFC fans - the same way the onus is on any group in society to maintain an image that is worth maintaining – to act accordingly and have other see us in a light worth seeing. Sure it was a few douche bags that have since splashed mud on our reputation, but you take the good with the bad here. All the more reason to rectify it by doing good and showing that we are not what the media has portrayed us to be, “hooligans”, but instead proud supporters of something this city should feel good about, and that’s “TFC”.

[Roogsy]

I think there are two issues/complaints that are vaild....the "firm" references and the accusation of racism. Those two errors are very serious and flat out wrong.

The rest...get over it and grow up. You expect the FO to babysit the media and take the heat for your actions?

Don't want people from the national post writing articles about people pissing on fences...don't post pictures of it.

Don't want the sun to have a picture of a guy getting tased on the front page? Don't post youtube videos of it.

I saw a picture on flickr of someone throwing the broken railing at Columbus...how did I find it? It was posted here. How do you think the other stuff was found? How many threads do you think are used as material for articles? Positive AND negative.

I'm not saying we should cover up negative behaviour...I'm just saying people have to be smarter and realize that pimping yourself in the media and online as the biggest group, will get you a lot of attention. Positive and negative attention. People need to be adults and understand and handle this.

It seems to me like people like to bask in the positive attention...but a little bit of self inflicted negative attention and they cry to their mommy (MLSE) for help.

Like I said...I think the FO should use their influence to squash the "firm" and "racisim" stuff...that's wrong and unwarrented.

The other stuff...it's up to the groups to figure out. Dont' want the finger poitned at you when things arent' rosey?
Then don't be the biggest f-ing target.

Dumbest post in the thread. And I am not surprised.

[alexintoronto]

Dumbest post in the thread. And I am not surprised.

Really? I thought it made a lot of sense. (And I'm still sober )

[Roogsy]

This is a battle not worth fighting. We are a very small minority of people who know the truth compared to a larger segment of society who will forever believe in what they hear from the various misread media outlets. In a sense, it’s the misinformed boobs in society who are the fools for drinking the Kool-Aid that is fed to them instead of investigating on their own what TFC fans are truly about. Do you believe everything that you hear in the media? Of course not, you take the information given with a grain of salt and investigate further if you feel so inclined to do so. And, I don’t care one way or the other how those who choose to live behind blindfolds in life perceive us. Similar to convincing a young child that Dimetapp is good for a common cold, we face the unenviable task of negotiating our legitimacy with the masses that have been lead to believe otherwise.

Fact is, the onus is on all TFC fans - the same way the onus is on any group in society to maintain an image that is worth maintaining – to act accordingly and have other see us in a light worth seeing. Sure it was a few douche bags that have since splashed mud on our reputation but you take the good with the bad here. All the more reason to rectify it by doing good and showing that we are not what the media has portrayed us to be, “hooligans”, but instead proud supporters of something this city should feel good about, and that’s “TFC”.

RPB has been doing exactly this since day one. And yet 2 years of good positive work at and away from the stadium is done away with with one stroke of the pen.

So tell me, what happens when some buffoon this weekend does something stupid again and we have nothing to do with it? Not only is all our past good work undone even more...or worse.

So all this talk from a bunch of you of "get over it" are fooling yourselves. This is far from over. If some douchebag this weekend throws even ONE beer and it's caught on camera, or one drunk streaker, Catheter and his ilk will feel vindicated and be all over it again. In what world can any of us be sure that there won't be at least ONE douchebag at the game?

And where is it even remotely rational that WE are held responsible for the actions of others? I am fairly certain that the "get over it" crowd are the ones that rarely, if ever, go on these away trips and therefore easily separate themselves from those of us who do so on a regular basis and feel very close to this issue. And in my opinion, it also shows a lack of comradery with the rest of us.

[GBV]

Well, exactly. If only the media picked up on this theme instead of attributing it to the sport.





That's the thing, soccer has the word 'hooligan' associated with it (not that the reported acts qualify as such), but there's no comparable word for bad behaviour in the NFL, baseball, or hockey.

hockey might not have a "word" but there is certainly "baggage" as far as behaviour goes. in soccer it's fan baggage, in hockey player baggage. every violent/meatheaded incident in hockey fans the flames for those who think the game is out of control. especially those who might not be diehard fans.

[Blazer]

I think there are two issues/complaints that are vaild....the "firm" references and the accusation of racism. Those two errors are very serious and flat out wrong.

The rest...get over it and grow up. You expect the FO to babysit the media and take the heat for your actions?

Don't want people from the national post writing articles about people pissing on fences...don't post pictures of it.

Don't want the sun to have a picture of a guy getting tased on the front page? Don't post youtube videos of it.

I saw a picture on flickr of someone throwing the broken railing at Columbus...how did I find it? It was posted here. How do you think the other stuff was found? How many threads do you think are used as material for articles? Positive AND negative.

I'm not saying we should cover up negative behaviour...I'm just saying people have to be smarter and realize that pimping yourself in the media and online as the biggest group, will get you a lot of attention. Positive and negative attention. People need to be adults and understand and handle this.

It seems to me like people like to bask in the positive attention...but a little bit of self inflicted negative attention and they cry to their mommy (MLSE) for help.

Like I said...I think the FO should use their influence to squash the "firm" and "racisim" stuff...that's wrong and unwarrented.

The other stuff...it's up to the groups to figure out. Dont' want the finger poitned at you when things arent' rosey?
Then don't be the biggest f-ing target.

Although your post is bang on, you’re likely preaching to the choir here. I doubt the retards that covet trouble or negative publicity frequent these boards, more so I highly doubt that they belong to or are affiliated with any of the supporters groups. So while I agree with your post and think that many others in here do too, I think your lecture is falling on deaf ears when the people who need it most are simply not on these boards taking note.

[H Bomb]

Dumbest post in the thread. And I am not surprised.

Really? I thought it made a lot of sense. (And I'm still sober )

I agree more with Roogs than Alex here. You say we attract attention...well what we do is serve charities, and that requires attention. We have done many charitable projects and will continue to do so. Other than that we're just the biggest group. So to tell us to accept the negative that comes with that isn't right IMO. And about pictures being posted, I simply hold the journalists to a higher standard than finding a pic and writing an ignorant article about it. People keep saying get over it....why? what has been done to resolve the issue? What has been done to restore our GOOD name? What has been done to stop further ignorant articles being written? I'd say let sleeping giants lay, but the giant woke up and is stomping all of us, whether we choose to ignore it or not

[Kevvv]

hockey might not have a "word" but there is certainly "baggage" as far as behaviour goes. in soccer it's fan baggage, in hockey player baggage. every violent/meatheaded incident in hockey fans the flames for those who think the game is out of control. especially those who might not be diehard fans.

Good point; hockey has a few words for player behaviour - thug, brawl, goon.

[alexintoronto]

I just personally think olegunner made some good points - but I'm not getting any further into this.

[Roogsy]

Although your post is bang on, you’re likely preaching to the choir here. I doubt the retards that covet trouble or negative publicity frequent these boards, more so I highly doubt that they belong to or are affiliated with any of the supporters groups. So while I agree with your post and think that many others in here do too, I think your lecture is falling on deaf ears when the people who need it most are simply not on these boards taking note.

Bang on?

What is it exactly that we did that can be described as "self-inflicted negative attention"?

I am tired of posters on here claiming we are doing this to ourselves. I want to hear EXACTLY what it is we are doing that merits this attention. That's it! I am calling people out and demanding they backup the crap they are putting up on this board.

We can't win with you people. If we clamp down and censor the board, we get called fascists and restrictive.

If we open the board and let people discuss the team and events in an open manner, we are slitting our own throats.

Tell you what. How about we shut the board down altogether???

Because of course, how stupid it is for us to demand the media be ACCURATE! That's just crazy talk.

Fuck me.

[Blazer]

RPB has been doing exactly this since day one. And yet 2 years of good positive work at and away from the stadium is done away with with one stroke of the pen.

So tell me, what happens when some buffoon this weekend does something stupid again and we have nothing to do with it? Not only is all our past good work undone even more...or worse.

So all this talk from a bunch of you of "get over it" are fooling yourselves. This is far from over. If some douchebag this weekend throws even ONE beer and it's caught on camera, or one drunk streaker, Catheter and his ilk will feel vindicated and be all over it again. In what world can any of us be sure that there won't be at least ONE douchebag at the game?

And where is it even remotely rational that WE are held responsible for the actions of others? I am fairly certain that the "get over it" crowd are the ones that rarely, if ever, go on these away trips and therefore easily separate themselves from those of us who do so on a regular basis and feel very close to this issue. And in my opinion, it also shows a lack of comradery with the rest of us.

Don’t be so quick to Chicken Little every minor shit show that happens at BMO. We have people murdering people regularly in this city, kids addicted to crack and whatever else they can get their grubby paws on, a society so hung up on image and material wealth and we want to save the world because TFC’s supports have a bad guy image? Please.

I’m not suggesting that adequate reprimand for those in direct violation is inappropriate, on the contrary, I’d like to see them banned. But for Christ sake, the sky isn’t falling either.

I’ve been to New England, Columbus (x3), and Chicago … my “get over it” attitude has nothing to do with how often I take to the road but I’ll tell you what does. My apathy for those who want to associate “hooliganism” with TFC supporters because they just don’t know any better. Professionals say that humans (groups included) are offended only when they have been made to feel like less of a group. So a few idiots drink too much and break the law, blame is placed on any number of supporter groups, and suddenly we’re supposed to lose our collective minds and begin the bounty hunt? Silly.

[Roogsy]

Don’t be so quick to Chicken Little every minor shit show that happens at BMO.

What rock have you been under?

It's the "minor shit" itself that has been overblown to begin with! That's like asking someone not to worry about running out of gas when the dial is on "E" and the sign on the highway says "Next Service Station 100 miles".

[Blazer]

Bang on?

What is it exactly that we did that can be described as "self-inflicted negative attention"?

I am tired of posters on here claiming we are doing this to ourselves. I want to hear EXACTLY what it is we are doing that merits this attention. That's it! I am calling people out and demanding they backup the crap they are putting up on this board.

We can't win with you people. If we clamp down and censor the board, we get called fascists and restrictive.

If we open the board and let people discuss the team and events in an open manner, we are slitting our own throats.

Tell you what. How about we shut the board down altogether???

Because of course, how stupid it is for us to demand the media be ACCURATE! That's just crazy talk.

Fuck me.

Roogsy you’re right. His post wasn’t “bang-on” as I suggested. But I think the idea or where he wanted to go with it is. The suggestion that you (we) need to live with the idea that we are going to get credit the same way we’re going to get flack. I’m not disagreeing with you, I just don’t think we should be calling in the army quite yet.

[Blazer]

What rock have you been under?

It's the "minor shit" itself that has been overblown to begin with! That's like asking someone not to worry about running out of gas when the dial is on "E" and the sign on the highway says "Next Service Station 100 miles".

And if I posted that I’d be banned or warned for the umpteenth time. Hermits are nice people too Roogsy, be careful with your label chucking spears.

[Roogsy]

I don't give a shit about the credit. That is not why we do the things we do.

But I don't want my good name dragged in the mud...and I like many others are facing people's sideways looks at our place of employment and in daily lives. Maybe YOU aren't....but dammit if I sit here and take this shit because that's the "way things are".

I dunno when you think people SHOULD take action...but I have never been one to sit by and let injustices happen without at least verbalizing my protest. We have ways of properly reflecting our unhappiness and those of us that feel strongly about this choose to do so. If you are ok with people casting dispersions on you and doing nothing...good for you. The rest of us are not ok sitting on our asses. Because we know that when you do, it only emboldens the liars to continue lying knowing there are no repercussions.