Cathal Kelly's Mistake...

[MUFC_Niagara]

News correction for April 8

Apr 08, 2009 04:30 AM

An April 5 article on the behaviour of Toronto FC soccer fans incorrectly stated that Maple Leaf Sports executives are concerned about the racial abuse of a player last season. In fact, it is executives of Major League Soccer who are concerned with that racial abuse incident. That incident did not involve any players or fans of Toronto FC, which is owned by Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment.






Hey Cathal,

How many more lies are in that article? Talk about irresponsible journalism, it's borderline slander! Get your facts straight before you label someone a racist. Everyone and their sister knows that it was the Columbus Crew fans who had a racism incident at their park last year.

Also, do your research on exactly what a "firm" is and what it has meant historically in continental Europe and the UK. I studied Football Violence in University and would be more than happy to give you a lesson on what hooliganism was and how it has historically been intertwined within the milieu of an industrial working-class culture. Hoologanism is much more than just mindless violence. Doctors, barristors, accountants, and countless other professionals have all been associated with football firms in Europe. What is it that makes these people work a solid occupation and then feel the need to fight on the weekend? Adrenaline rush, mob mentality? There is so much more to "hooliganism" than branding a group of people in the south end of the stadium hooligans because some idiot decides to throw a cup.

Now, as you are so adverse with the concept of the "firm" I am sure you know that a lot of the "firms" were started in prison yards by people doing time, or other shady areas. This is due to the fact that most of the people involved in "firms" and hence football violence are in trouble with the law 7 days a week, not just on Saturday between the hours of 12pm and 8pm. As far as a I know, none of the Red Patch Boys are career criminals and the group (or firm as you called it...lol) was formed in a pub! If you'd like to see what kind of research a real journalist does when writing on a topic of extreme sensitivity (see they Heysel and Hillsborough disasters to see why we need to be careful before using the term "firm" and "hooliganism") then i'd suggest starting with Bill Buford's book, Among The Thugs. From there I would go to Cass Pennant's book, Cass OR Congratultions, You Have Just Met The I.C.F (InnerCity Firm). As an expert on hooligans I am sure you know all about Pennant's story and that of the I.C.F. It will give you some insight into what exactly "hooliganism" is and how the "firm" has a much different mandate than that of the Red Patch Boys.

I have numerous articles, journals, books, and videos that would be of great help to you. If you need assistance researching so that you can write better informed articles on the subject, do not hesitstate to contact me.

Regards,

Tim xxxxxxxx

[MUFC_Niagara]

^^ just sent it to him...

[Corcai]

Uhm just curious, what was your Major?

[MUFC_Niagara]

Uhm just curious, what was your Major?

History, Modern European

[SweetOwnGoal]

I'm as frustrated by the article as anyone. However, having worked in a newsroom, I can tell you that it's as possible that an overzealous copy editor made the error.

The far more serious issues is the use of the word "firm." That's as much as saying that the SGs are a street gang and that the club works directly with them.

I once knew a young journalist that was let go after a probation period because they made two errors in spelling names in six months. The industry takes errors very seriously, whether you choose to believe that or not.

However, I imagine that they would argue that most of his column from Sunday falls within the boundaries of what's called fair comment. For something to be covered by fair comment you only have to prove that a reasonable person could conclude what it is that you are arguing--not every person or even most people, but simply any reasonable person. The opinion you voice also doesn't have to be correct. It just can't damage someone's reputation (unless it’s true. Truth is the ultimate defence against defamation).

Which is why the "firm" comment is the big problem in that article. The rest can be explained as a typo (in the racism error) or Kelly's opinion. Firm, however, is labelling the SGs in a way that does in fact damage the groups' reputations.

[MUFC_Niagara]

I'm as frustrated by the article as anyone. However, having worked in a newsroom, I can tell you that it's as possible that an overzealous copy editor made the error.

The far more serious issues is the use of the word "firm." That's as much as saying that the SGs are a street gang and that the club works directly with them.

I once knew a young journalist that was let go after a probation period because they made two errors in spelling names in six months. The industry takes errors very seriously, whether you choose to believe that or not.

However, I imagine that they would argue that most of his column from Sunday falls within the boundaries of what's called fair comment. For something to be covered by fair comment you only have to prove that a reasonable person could conclude what it is that you are arguing--not every person or even most people, but simply any reasonable person. The opinion you voice also doesn't have to be correct. It just can't damage someone's reputation (unless it’s true. Truth is the ultimate defence against defamation).

Which is why the "firm" comment is the big problem in that article. The rest can be explained as a typo (in the racism error) or Kelly's opinion. Firm, however, is labelling the SGs in a way that does in fact damage the groups' reputations.

That's what I tried to stress in my letter, as someone who studied this in Uni, Kelly is dead wrong here.

[Red CB Toronto]

There is a TFC Supporters group that uses firm in their name, so I can see how the association could be made by the media.

http://thefirm116.com/

[Red CB Toronto]

If there is an error or a mistake in an article and it runs would the writer or the editor be the one who faces the music.

[FluSH]

There is a TFC Supporters group that uses firm in their name, so I can see how the association could be made by the media.

http://thefirm116.com/

These are the only supporter groups recognized by Toronto FC:

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/t280/fa...porters_clubs/

I know the "firm" guys, and they are good guys... their name probably not the best choice, but they are a faaaaaaaaaar cry from what a FIRM is.

also, that group is a minority... if you are going to talk about that group then be specific, but don't paint us all with the same brush.

[SweetOwnGoal]

If there is an error or a mistake in an article and it runs would the writer or the editor be the one who faces the music.

The reporter is ultimately responsible. But that doesn't mean that reporter's don't get screwed by copy editors that re-work things out of context, put inflammatory headlines on their articles, assume things ("correcting" oddly spelled names is a common one), etc.

[MUFC_Niagara]

There is a TFC Supporters group that uses firm in their name, so I can see how the association could be made by the media.

http://thefirm116.com/

The fact that Kelly makes reference to the Firms in Europe is the issue. He probably doesn't even know this group exists otherwise he woud have used their name rather than ours.

[Roogsy]

The fact that Kelly makes reference to the Firms in Europe is the issue. He probably doesn't even know this group exists otherwise he woud have used their name rather than ours.

I agree.

And let's not let Wheeler off the hook either...he didn't point to "The Firm" when he wrote his stupid article. He specifically highlighted us. No disrespect to "the Firm" but most people don't even know they exist.

[Red CB Toronto]

These are the only supporter groups recognized by Toronto FC:

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/t280/fa...porters_clubs/

I know the "firm" guys, and they are good guys... their name probably not the best choice, but they are a faaaaaaaaaar cry from what a FIRM is.

also, that group is a minority... if you are going to talk about that group then be specific, but don't paint us all with the same brush.

I completely agree with you Flush and as you said it probably not the best choice for a name, but I can see how the associaition is made with the name out there, all it would take is someone with little knowledge doing some research and finding their site.

[FluSH]

I completely agree with you Flush and as you said it probably not the best choice for a name, but I can see how the associaition is made with the name out there, all it would take is someone with little knowledge doing some research and finding their site.

As a journalist you would think RESEARCH is part of the job... just my guess.

[Red CB Toronto]

The reporter is ultimately responsible. But that doesn't mean that reporter's don't get screwed by copy editors that re-work things out of context, put inflammatory headlines on their articles, assume things ("correcting" oddly spelled names is a common one), etc.

One question, how often would the reporter see the final edit? Especially if they are covering a game/event where deadlines come into play.

[Suds]

I completely agree with you Flush and as you said it probably not the best choice for a name, but I can see how the associaition is made with the name out there, all it would take is someone with little knowledge doing some research and finding their site.

.. and sadly their research would likely end at just finding the site ... not taking the time to learn who they are and what they stand for ...

kind of sounds familiar

[greatwhitenorf]

Heard Alex Sexeiro's radio show on the Fan this past weekend and a caller complained at length about the Star article and he had issues with it. There's a bigger awareness of this disgraceful coverage than what's reflected on this particular website.

For once, I'd be tempted to pull the Star's credentials. Most sports institutions who don't get either fair, or any kind of, coverage have traditionally ended up caving in when the Star finally deigns to send someone to write an article.

Witness the horseshit coverage they give junior hockey in this area. On any given weekend, the four junior teams within the Star's distribution area - Oshawa, Brampton, Mississauga and Barrie - would draw a minimum total of 12,000 fans if each team played one home game. Usually the number is higher.

It's our most beloved sport and junior hockey is a big part of where future NHLers come from. They ignore it. They give family-and-friends-supported high school and university sports massively more coverage than they do this vital and dynamically entertaining root stem of our true national sport - sorry lacrosse.

Often, when Damien Cox wants to spout his 'expert' opinion about prospect players, it doesn't even come from first-hand coverage. He just scalps his info from other sources and mails it in. And if they do want to have someone attend an event like the OHL finals or Memorial Cup, the junior leagues bend over and let them in.

The Star's problem is that it's had its head up its own collective ass for so long it's begun to admire the view.

TFC and it's great success were achieved in spite of what the Star offered in the way of coverage and commentary. They're useless and irrelevant to achieving the ambitions this team and its incredible fans are hoping for someday.

Bounce 'em. And do it loudly and publicly. Or I'm getting Russell Peters dad to come round and deal with them.

[SweetOwnGoal]

One question, how often would the reporter see the final edit? Especially if they are covering a game/event where deadlines come into play.

Never.

[FluSH]

.. and sadly their research would likely end at just finding the site ... not taking the time to learn who they are and what they stand for ...

kind of sounds familiar

FFS...

I should have gone to J-School... I mean do they teach you how to properly write?

I can't remember one paper that I did not finish without proper referencing (annotations, endnotes, etc...)

Do these trash Journos just make up their own shit? WTF?!

[FluSH]

"let me pull a quote out of my ass... and make a column for The Toronto Star"

-Cathal Kelly



How is that for a banner?

[MUFC_Niagara]

I hope he reads one of the books i prescribed....

[nfitz]

However, I imagine that they would argue that most of his column from Sunday falls within the boundaries of what's called fair comment.

Ah - but he didn't have a column on Sunday. He wrote a front-page article. It kind of sounded like a column - but it appeared as a news story on the front page, with absolutely no indication it was a column.

Had it simply been a column, where everyone knows the views of the columnist come into play, I don't think people would be as upset. But a news story is different.

[BRed]

Good Idea FluSH and perhaps a chant to go along with it...a nice little McCathal combo and a little juice box for him too?

I came a long way marching
MARCHING! to this field.
I screamed so loud
they heard me in Seattle.
They tased me in Columbus.
They told me I was loud.
They labeled me a Hooligan
and that was in my hometown!

So Cathal Kelly hear me!
Cathal Kelly QUOTE ME!

They're gonna expand BMO
and my red army will grow.

[K1nG]

"let me pull a quote out of my ass... and make a column for The Toronto Star"

-Cathal Kelly



How is that for a banner?

Great Idea!

[billyfly]

Why is there no chant planned?

Just use the Jimmy B song.

Oh Cathal Kelly
I wanna know, why you hate us so?

[Jack]

I'm not chanting for a reporter.

They've already had enough attention this week.

Time to focus on what we're about...the game and supporting the 11 men on the pitch.

[Chevy]

+1. Move on.

[billyfly]

You're right Jack.

Also, if we've passed up the opportunity for a chant for Sgt. Dick Weiner from the Columbus police force, than Cathal doesnt get one either.

[Wagner]

Jack, i say rule with an iron fist leading up to the FCD game...
just shut down anything with any mention of media...reporters...columbus...

[Carter]

We have a rockin tailgate planned for saturday! better be there!