you might need more than 3 hours thoughOriginally Posted by ua-kozak_TFC
you might need more than 3 hours though
3 hours is more than enough...to scout any team or player. If you watched the fullgames that seatle played you know that unless....somehow all the players are gone because of some serious infectious disease or soemthin.... Seattle will dominate this year with flying colours...
Yea god forbit a TFC fan states that a team in the MLS is playing well... because he wouldn;t be a REAL FAN...you sir, aren't watching the whole 90 minutes
I'll let it go tho.. you've got a big crush on Montero... it's so cute.
I bet you're planning to move to Seattle and stop supporting TFC
A REAL TFC fan is someone who...
DOesn;t question COaches' desicions...
Thinks that every players on TFC is the best player ever...
thinks MOJO is like Wegner and SirFerguson combined when it comes to scouting players...
You know, you're right... and I'm really impressed with how Hull City is in 3rd place in the Premiership this year,,,oh wait! It changed during the year?
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Moderator
Pretty much the perfect response, haha.You know, you're right... and I'm really impressed with how Hull City is in 3rd place in the Premiership this year,,,
Hull City started off like a whirlwind, then as teams got wise to their style and strategy, and their momentum slowed, and they lost a man or two to cards or injuries, they began a steep slide down the table. It took more than two games to figure them out, too.
I doubt Seattle will face quite the same fate (since, for starters, they aren't REALLY an expansion side), but I'm also not ready to crown their asses after two strong performances at home.
Let's see how they respond to adversity when they go down a goal in a game for the first time, or when they lose a player or two to injury, or when they don't have a friendly crowd at their back, or when they go on their first win-less streak for a few weeks. If in 10 weeks or so, they are still easily top of the table in the West, I will gladly say they are a real threat for MLS "domination".
But for now, that's a lot of questions they have yet to answer in two weeks.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
What a great home opener opponent.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
Montero was a gift to Seattle, and is responsible for most of their success so far. FWIW, he was scouted by the league, and Seattle got him because of their place in the allocation table. It has nothing to do with their scouting (although they have a big one-up over TFC and RSL in their expansion year because of having their scouts already in place from their USL side).
Seattle got a DP-quality player without needing to use a DP slot.
I compare Montero to JP Angel. Angel tore up the league at first, until teams figured out how to neutralize him.
A similar situation happened in the EPL when Hull was promoted. The team went on a tear until teams realized how to neutralize their attack. They were near the top of the table, now they might end up being relegated.
Similar situation happened with Montreal in the CCL. Eventually the Mexicans figured out how to take them out.
You can't judge a team by early results. I personally think that Seattle's depth is rather thin, and their attack a little one-dimensional. If Carver can figure out how to neutralize their attack (and the second half of the RSL-Seattle match gave a hint of that) then Toronto can pick up 1 or 3 points.
I would tend to place a bruiser (Harmse/Serioux) against Montero and push an attacking game to keep the ball in their end. Their defense hasn't been tested enough, and may yield to a strong DeRo/Guevara push. Beware of their counter-attack, which is fast. Expect a high-scoring game.
Football is a game of opinions, and I respect the various ones shared on this board, but you have to look a little below the surface to see what is really going on.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 03-31-2009 at 07:50 AM.
Montreal went out due to their mental break down... and not because teams eventually figuered out how to cancel them out ... They were on top for most of the game even in mexico...so i dont; think mexico figuered out how to cancel them out they just capitallized on Montreal's loss of focus in the last minutes of the match.
Just to clarify.
i am not saying that seatle will win ALL the games and will be untouchables for the whole season. We might even humiliate them next saturday because because they won;t be used to the abuse by the crowd..
What i am saying is that but i have no doubt that they will go far this season.... unless something major and unexpected happens. And like half the squad is injured ...
Their squad is solid...
I'll wait and see. I'm not ready to declare them a force.
After 5-6 games, we'll have a better idea how good Seattle is. At that point we'll know how much of an advantage it is to be a promoted USL side versus a from-scratch start-up.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
That they had an advantage is obvious... to expect this from TFC on the first expansion year would be expecting too much... yet we are in 3rd year... If they do a better campain than us this year Wouldn't you think that perhaps TFC could be doing a better job at puttign a squad together... Time will tell and i hope i am wrong for the good of TFC...
you make it sound like putting together a squad in MLS is as easy as 2+2
Honestly I don't buy this argument. And most of what you say isn't true.
1. First of all, they have a new coach and basically a brand new starting 11. I think it's only Le Toux and Scott that have played so far that came from the USL team.
2. Le Toux was signed like 8 months before the Seattle MLS franchise was announced so it's really hard to say they were stocking up on talent for MLS when they didn't even know they were going to have a team in the MLS.
3. Scott was with the Sounders since 2002 so enough said there
4. Nyassi and Alonso were signed FOR the MLS franchise, nothing to do with the USL team. That's no different then us signing Reda and Braz for the TFC franchise. Oh wait, there's a difference
5. At the end of the day, it's a bunch of players from all over the place coming together to make a team. I will concede that having a scouting system in place is an advantage, however, it's not what you are trying to paint here. Do you think Ljunberg or Nyassi or anyone else for that matter signed with Seattle because they knew all about the USL team?
6. Did I forget to mention they have a hell of a minority owner who knows how to build a soccer franchise?
This is poor.You know, you're right... and I'm really impressed with how Hull City is in 3rd place in the Premiership this year,,,
Hull's first game: a scrappy 2-1 win over Fulham. Hardly the 3-0 execution Seattle performed on the shite.
The second game: a 1-1 draw to Blackburn, followed by a defeat to Swansea in the carling.
The third game: was a 5-0 Defeat to Wigan.
How are you comparing the two situations? Hull came into the premiership as a side that has been around for donkeys years and existed in the top flight many times. They began the season looking like a newly promoted side and are now in 13th place. They made third for a while, but nobody thought they could finish the season like that, least of all them.
http://www.soundersfc.com/Team/Roster.aspx
Current Sounders squad that came from their USL squad
-Eylander, Graham, Le Toux, Levesque, Nyassi, Scott
Of those 6, 3 have seen first team action (Le Toux, Scott, Nyassi). The rest are currently depth players
I'll buy that for two cents. Maybe Le Toux was signed because they wanted to have a competitive team?2. Le Toux was signed like 8 months before the Seattle MLS franchise was announced so it's really hard to say they were stocking up on talent for MLS when they didn't even know they were going to have a team in the MLS.
To me, it seems like Seattle GM did some homework getting a lot of talents, or spotting them to be signed at later date.
-I honestly dont know exactly what goes through Nyassi or Ljungberg's mind when they signed for Seattle.5. At the end of the day, it's a bunch of players from all over the place coming together to make a team. I will concede that having a scouting system in place is an advantage, however, it's not what you are trying to paint here. Do you think Ljunberg or Nyassi or anyone else for that matter signed with Seattle because they knew all about the USL team?
-Again, Yank expansion team (and I use the term a bit loosely in this game) have an advantage when it comes to signing players due to domestic player rule.
Actually, I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to get at. (or my English is failing me again lol)
-You mean Drew Carey? Do you know exactly how much input he has in day to day operation, incl signing players? Isn't that a GM's job?6. Did I forget to mention they have a hell of a minority owner who knows how to build a soccer franchise?
Just saw your avatar Exiled. Have you ever made the trip to Hillsborough to the monument. A very sad place....the football side that plays there is sad as well, but for a different reason
No, I haven't been to Hillsborough since before the disaster. I was there about a year before when we beat Wednesday 5-1.Just saw your avatar Exiled. Have you ever made the trip to Hillsborough to the monument. A very sad place....the football side that plays there is sad as well, but for a different reason
For me the stadium's name has become synonomous with the disaster and I feel bad for the Wednesday supporters having to live with that.
I'll change the avatar at the end of the month probably.
Seattle are good. They may finish above us. For me it's 50/50 whether they're a top 4 club or not.
I'm rooting for them (not against TFC of course!)....
because they don't have a corporate owner, which is the death of sports in general, and has mostly been a real negative here in Toronto.
(Spare me the inevitable ingratitude post - I'm grateful to the taxpayers, who put up 80%+ of the combined cost of the stadium and team)
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
1. Nyassi was signed by Sounders FC, not the USL team. He was then loaned out to the USL team since the MLS season hadn't started. Again, no different the TFC having the ability to sign a player before their MLS season started.
2. There is much more that goes into a soccer team then just getting 11 players on the field. The GM has had a big role to play, so has Drew Carey, they have different roles to perform. That's all I was saying about Drew.
3. All I am trying to get at is that most of the team is new and they are quite succesfull already. They obviously just did a much better job of forming a team then we ever did, that's all. People attribute that to them having a USL team, I attribute that to owners and management who know how to form a team. They deserve credit for what they've put together.
There starting 11 is solid. Who do they have to go to when a couple of players are out?
Anyone know why Montero wasn't even called up by the Coffee Makers for their WCQ games? Seems odd to me.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
A good friend of mine, a Liverpool supporter, was at the disaster. He was located in the same stand, in the balcony behind the police-caused over crowded section.
He was helping pull people up out of that section to safety.
Best post on Montero so far, except this part:
"I would tend to place a bruiser (Harmse/Serioux) against Montero..."
Montero would turn Harmse like a chicken on a spit. Serioux might -- might -- be able to mark him, but we need him in central defense, and we're a zonal team.
If we're going to try and man-mark him out of the game, it has to be a mid, which means it has to be Robinson (who is also the only guy we have pretty much guaranteed to be good enough to stay with him.)
Montero's danger isn't just his finishing; it's his lateral movement. He's very good at spotting lanes to move into that defenders won't be able to cover in time, giving him room to shape a shot. Harmse got absolutely ripped apart by Dane Richards' combo of speed and movement last year, and Richards isn't a patch on Montero.
i think their overhyped with being the new kid on the block and winning thier home opener. They will be overwhelmed in their 1st road game at BMO (toughest place in MLS to play) and then they may fall apart as the honeymoon ends. cmon its an expansion team! they will be lke Hull city's decline
so far what i gathered was that the colombian wc squad had decent forwards and thereby allow montero time to adjust to his new group and surroundings. rest assured that he could be called up for the next round of qualifiers..
As for the comments about seattle not having experience in our fortress don't get me wrong when i say from fact that a few of these players have already played in quite a few hostile places so i don't buy this as a reason for them to fail. Keller has been around the block , lundberg also seen some crazy stadiums, and montero and hurtado have played in some really messed up stadiums in colombia. I know i have visited some stadiums in colombia and its not a pretty site during matches.
Also take note that sigi is not no middle of the class head coach he knows what to expect when he comes into bmo field and im sure hes prepping his club to expect the worst.. I hope they fail and that our defense holds them off although i fear a very ruff game is in store full of yellow and red cards..
last but not least what i have seen of seattle this season is that they are quick in thier movement of the ball.. they see a pass that can be done they do it.. I see toronto and they all want to run the extra step to better position themselves to pass..
Last edited by gtaguy; 03-31-2009 at 05:22 PM.
Their situation is no different than a team in a league with promotion/relegation that gets promoted. Of course you add talent (if you want to stay up) and upgrade the coach if need be. But make no mistake about it, you are not a new side. Here's what you've got:
(1) Established coaching networks. RSL & TFC had no scouting networks (unless you count Mo's agent for TFC).
(2) Established staff and facilities for physio, fitness training,etc. Remember how in year 1 we didn't have Paul Winsper, and several of our starting 11 were out? And don't get me started on Mo doubling as coach and GM.
(3) Some key players who know the ropes and have played in the city to integrate new players and make them feel at home. This builds chemistry quickly, and is a huge advantage.
(4) Club history to motivate the players and help attract new ones. A lot of players when offered a chance to play for TFC in year 1 turned it down flat (as in "WHO wants me to play for them?). It's only now that we can attract better players. A club history makes players want to honour the badge, like the players who played before.
Being a fan of latin football, I know you appreciate these things.
They had a good idea and were willing to take the risk. I doubt you followed the USL-1 like I did. Players like Le Toux are not overly common in USL-1.2. Le Toux was signed like 8 months before the Seattle MLS franchise was announced so it's really hard to say they were stocking up on talent for MLS when they didn't even know they were going to have a team in the MLS.
Doesn't prove the "stocking up" theory, but absolutely proves that there is an advantage in being promoted rather than being from scratch.3. Scott was with the Sounders since 2002 so enough said there
Proves the huge advantage of having an established scouting network.4. Nyassi and Alonso were signed FOR the MLS franchise, nothing to do with the USL team. That's no different then us signing Reda and Braz for the TFC franchise. Oh wait, there's a difference
If you're going to mention Reda and Braz, I'll have to mention that the excessive Canadian content rules in year 1 made the whole first year wasted as many of those Canadians were not MLS quality. The team we know now was only really started in year 2. Not Mo's fault at all, it's the CSA's and the league's (both of whom insisted on a high quota).
I'll give you that one. Gotta love Drew as a football club owner. Beats many of the suits at MLSE any day.
6. Did I forget to mention they have a hell of a minority owner who knows how to build a soccer franchise?
Last edited by Oldtimer; 03-31-2009 at 06:34 PM.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
You're probably right about Harmse. I observed, however, that Montero was cowed when physically challenged in the second half of the RSL game. So maybe Serioux would be better. Of course, hopefully Robbo will stop him before he get's to testing our shaky defenses.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
no luck in TO.
Come on now the y will wilt under the pressure and atmosphere of BMO. No chance for them, TFC undefeated after three, i say!
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