What people are missing on all this is the province and the feds have a pot to spend on events for Pan Am from which this $20 million can be pulled without much fanfare.Originally Posted by TFC07
Yes... They will finanlly get it
No.... They will screw this up royally
hmmm... not sure? how much money will they make from this?
What people are missing on all this is the province and the feds have a pot to spend on events for Pan Am from which this $20 million can be pulled without much fanfare.
I don't doubt this can happen at the snap of a finger.
What the level of fanfare would be, that is the question.
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City Hall will be voting on BMO Field at some point during their council meeting over the next two days.
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Recess until 2 pm. They were just talking Billy Bishop.
They'll be talking about Billy Bishop until at least 7 pm. BMO has been voted to be second on the agenda.
69 million federal money for Tim Hortons field for soccer. This is how they will proposition the Feds. this is why a low level media rep with no power or outside office knowledge is quoted as saying the gov't doesn't have a program for professional sports. It's being proposed as part of the Pan-Am games. MLSE will likely say that by splitting the Rugby 7 between Bmo and another venue it will help protect turfs and the new upgraded field will be better suited to with stand damage so it won't effect later games as much.
10 million extra to make the event look better in a better over all venue, this will be a good thing. Particularly as MLSE will point out that the City choose not to bid for a Women's World Cup game at the National Soccer Stadium. And as you have said.. it can also be seen as a 10 million investment in producing a world cup bid down the road.
Rogers, BC Place, the Big O and Commonwealth, (maybe the mythical NFL stadium which is where the funding would come from)
BMO, Investors Group Field, RoughRiders New Stadium, TD Place, McMahon Stadium and Tim Hortons Field all can be bumped up to 40,000 for the event
There is 6 40,000 seat stadiums.
4 50-65 seat stadiums.
a NFL 70-80,000 seat stadium makes 11 venues and that is your World Cup Bid.
MLSE has many ways to position this to the Federal gov't as being a good long term money saving investment. Inflation and infrastructure costs will make this harder and more expensive in 10 years.
I cannot see FIFA allowing three venues being in the same city. Even two is stretching it.
Why not we're hearing this pan-am game talk from government? Pan-am talk is coming from MLSE only! Even now, MLSE isn't bringing Pan-am argument anymore. So why bother keep bringing this point up?
World Cup 2026 bid hasn't been made official from Canada yet. CSA hasn't come up with a plan and they're not going to come out with their plans anytime soon. So there's no rush from government side to give money to MLSE/City so they might host world cup game in 12 years time.
Low level government? If you look at government track record, they have been pretty consistent. They don't give money unless they know for sure it's for international event. Pan-am money is already given out and asking for more this late is City/MLSE problem not government. They should have asked for money when government was handing it out. So don't blame City of Hamilton for having brains to get good amount of money and host a high profile event (soccer). This is all Toronto and MLSE fault for not having foresight.
Keep in mind that $30 million is for Argos and how MLSE needs the money to bring Argos so they can have moveable stands (north and south) and hybrid pitch. $90 million coming from MLSE is for soccer (roof and adding another deck to east stand) only.
2018 2 in Moscow
2010 2 in Johannesburg and the Pretoria stadium is only about 55km from a Johannesburg stadium.
2002 Japan had stadiums in Kobe and Osaka 45 km apart and 3 in the greater Seoul area.
1998 2 were in Paris (Saint Denis is Paris)
Two is fine. Three may be stretching it, I think if the NFL stadium were being built in Markham or Vaughan (neither of which are Toronto) it could be a successful bid. FIFA has been known to make exceptions. (South Korea/Japan for example as bad as it was)
However the way around that is not using Rogers centre (which will be baseball grass and not ideal) and building a 40,000 seater (that can be pulled down to 22-25,000) in Quebec City or Halifax. (Big O, NFL, Commonwealth, and BC Place would still make 4 large venues) With luck one of the two cities would have a NASL team by that time anyway.
I'm sure MLSE has this all covered they are smart people, they wouldn't go to the Feds without having a plan.
Last edited by Kaz; 04-01-2014 at 02:12 PM.
Also, I don't see CSA pissing off rest of Canada by having 3 venues in Toronto.
Look I've only been giving suggestions.. you seem to think the Federal Gov't has closed the door... it hasn't. I've given a plausible way around what a low level rep said when asked a specific question. Believe what ever you want. I have no idea what will happen...
The Federal Gov't a) isn't going to volunteer information prior to a decision being made, they have only asked a low level rep a question and b) the Province and Feds aren't going to say a word until after City Council has voted.
Federal government already give their word (and have track record to show it which you ignored) while Provincial government has been under fire for even thinking about giving more money to MLSE while dealing with potential election due to all scandals they're facing these days.
City will gain the most from this, so of course they will support it.
when you have a large disproportionate population such as Canada, people must eventually accept that the GTA has to proportionately receive gov't funds. (riddled with poor grammar, but you guys get the point)
35% of Canada's population lives in southern ontario
Last edited by C.Ronaldo; 04-01-2014 at 02:27 PM.
Federal Gov't hasn't given anything.. a single low level media rep has made a single comment to a specific questions about a hypothetical action they likely had no information on.. you have shown nothing concrete.
Maybe so, but we got plenty of cities in Canada to host the game. The whole point besides making money of hosting world cup is to grow the game in this country. So spreading games all over Canada will make sense. That's the whole point of CSA agenda making Canada a soccer country is all about. Just look at US after hosting world cup 94 how they become a good soccer country. That's what CSA is trying accomplished with hosting world cup.
Spokeswoman speaking behalf of infrastructure minister is low level media rep? I think spokeswoman wouldn't made that comment unless she was told to do so from her boss. Spokeswoman easily could have said "we're looking into it like we do with other request for funds" if she had no authority, but she didn't. That's what makes it a story.
Great because that is the only minister involved right? no other ministers would be involved?... the Sports Canada Hosting Program which has a $500 Million dollar budget for improvements for sporting facilities which includes the Pan Am games couldn't be where the request was made? Which is the Canada Heritage Minister not the Infrastructure Minister.
There are only 9 Metro Area's in Canada with a population of 500,000
1 Toronto 5,583,064
2 Montreal 3,824,221
3 Vancouver 2,313,328
4 Ottawa 1,236,324
5 Calgary 1,214,839
6 Edmonton 1,159,869
7 Quebec 765,706
8 Winnipeg 730,018
9 Hamilton 721,053
Of which Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Hamilton all have Stadiums that are or capable of being part of a World Cup bid. Only Quebec City dosen't.
If one were to exclude Rogers Centre (as a Baseball only facility), and Build a NFL capable Stadium in the GTA then Quebec City would be the logical location. Making it 37-42,000 seats capable of dropping to 18-25,000 after the world cup with the intent of a NASL bid.
Halifax is the other location as there is no Maritime representation. But it is small and would need a team (either CFL or NASL to play there)
Short of that 3 in the GTA where 16% of Canada's population lives would likely be given a pass. Ideally though Quebec City would be the bid site, and Rogers wouldn't be included if BMO was.
Last edited by Kaz; 04-01-2014 at 03:00 PM.
Then why did Infrastructure minister respond if they didn't receive the request? Most likely, request was sent to them and others they decided respond it. I am sure their reply is widely supported with other ministers who have been consistent with these requests. Quebec City, Winnipeg, Saskatchewan (Regina) and Ottawa didn't get any money from feds so Toronto shouldn't get it either.
There are talks of Quebec City (?) and Halifax getting a CFL team. So don't be surprised if a stadium is built in one of those cities and CFL team & second tier soccer team (NASL team or all Canadian soccer league team?) takes it over after world cup. Also let's not forget Canada's population is growing and we might have few more towns with more than 500,000 by 2026.
However, these talks like World Cup bid is very early in the stages. So who knows how it all play out in the end.
Do you live in Ottawa? do you work for a Conservative Minister? What gives you the authority to make these wide claims? Most likely? it is highly unlikely. Again TL saying the Province and Feds are closer then the city makes it unlikely the response the CBC got isn't fully accurate (which we don't know what process they went through to get that response)
The CBC reporter may have asked the Infrastructure Minister directly. There are any number of things, and being as TL commented on the this a few weeks ago... it is likely that his comments are closer to the truth then a low level media rep responding to a question about something they may not know about as I have been saying. Again if the request was given to Sports Canada and not a Minister directly, the infrastructure minster wouldn't have any info and if the CBC sent a email to the Infrastructure Minister asking if this was something their office was going to fund, the response would have been as was given. The Minister my have found out about the error after or may have intentionally made the comment for appearance being as the City has yet to vote. If the city and province say yes and Heritage Canada makes the approval the Ministers office can say it wasn't put through our office we gave you the information you asked about. If it doesn't go through, the Tory Government doesn't look like they are sitting on the fence.
Didn't I just say that?
Halifax and Victoria are the most likely Metro areas to go over that number next that aren't in Southern Ontario. If the Rest of Canada will be pissed about Toronto and Hamilton having 4 of 11 stadiums, they aren't going to be any more happy with 4 being in Southern Ontario... so cross them off. Leaving Halifax and Quebec City as Victoria is close to Vancouver, and would likely have no use for a stadium. I took population growth into account. As it is you already have a city of 210,000 in Regina in any world cup bid. It is early days of course.
Short of another Brampton happening I don't see anything surprising happening population wise.
Last edited by Kaz; 04-01-2014 at 03:28 PM.
"Low level media rep" respond was just week ago which is a lot more recent than TL (who we all know talks too much crap). Spokeswoman respond was sent in an email to other media outlet not just CBC alone.
My response has been putting pieces together. If you look around the country who have made similar request, then you will see why I don't see Feds supporting BMO field project unless it's for World Cup.
Regina getting a new stadium, so I will say they will get the games in the end. So we do have enough cities that we don't need 3rd venue in GTA to host World Cup. 11 cities can host the games (Toronto/GTA getting 2 venues). I don't understand why we're even talking about this right now.
I have no idea what will happen, but I wouldn't be overly fussed with the public statements or record here.
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America ended up with a good team with pockets of deep soccer communities. I wouldn't call it a soccer country yet, if ever.
Not sure Canada should waste its time convincing Winnipeg or Sask. that soccer is the sport of choice. Focus on the larger metro's, the rest will follow if they want to.
Let's see: Toronto 2x, Ottawa, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton... That's about it for obvious candidates. Others have smaller population bases and soccer is still mostly seen as a sport for foreigners and pansy metrosexuals. Certainly not the smart money choices.
Anyway... The whole idea of this is terribly far fetched. The WC will go to whoever they can plunge for the most dollars and that's unlikely to be us. The stadium situation is not even half the story anymore. Transit, airports, infrastructure are all increasingly being pulled into the picture. No way Canada spends that much money, we're more fiscally responsible than that.
Last edited by ag futbol; 04-01-2014 at 04:27 PM.
Manitoba is producing some good soccer players these days. So don't count out Winnipeg and rest of Manitoba when comes to soccer.
Sask. is experiencing an economic boom which is drawing a lot of immigrants and Canadians from other provinces to their province. So there is potential in Sask to grow the game and being accepted equal to Hockey and Canadian football.
Yeah the more i think of it there is even less of a chance of there even being 2 venues in Toronto. Given what Kaz is saying that would make 4 venues in the Greater Golden Horseshoe with the inclusion of Hamilton. Look at what you are saying Kaz, if Greater PARIS, by far the largest metropolitan area in France (and I dont have the numbers in front of me but I would bet that the ratio of that pop. : General French pop would be around the same as GTHA : Canada) could only have 2 venues there is no way a country the size of Canada is going to concentrate that many venues in one area (GTHA). Hell Sao Paulo is one of the largest cities in the World and it only gets 1 venue.
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