View Poll Results: If seating expansion occurs... will we get a supporter/controlled section?

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  • Yes... They will finanlly get it

    82 22.10%
  • No.... They will screw this up royally

    213 57.41%
  • hmmm... not sure? how much money will they make from this?

    76 20.49%
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  1. #1711
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cashcleaner View Post
    But the finances don't add up if that's the case. One outdoor game played every two years (and that's coming from MLSE) will generate money, no doubt. But it's still a drop in the bucket compared to a full MLS and CFL season of home games. The NHL Stadium Series matches will be huge revenue-generators, but are still more like the icing on the cake for this whole deal.
    Aside from a Winter Classic - and given the success of the Stadium Series - I'm sure the plan would be to play more than 1. It would likely be 2-3 per year. Given the appetite for hockey in the area, MLSE could pull it off.

    I guarantee they'd make more money off one outdoor game than a season of CFL games and maybe even a season of MLS games.

    The outdoor games are huge money makings. And you have to think outside of just the game itself. The merchandise alone too makes a fortune.

  2. #1712
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    This is going to go from "it's all very preliminary" to "here's the final plan, time is running out, agree to this or we'll shoot this dog right now" faster than you can spell Leiweke.
    Hey 2017 isn't that far away.

  3. #1713
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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    Tough job for Phil. Radio interview with two guys who haven't a clue. You can tell it's a chore for them. Decent job handling a clearly pro-Argo mentality.
    Three questions and bam, really nothing in depth.
    Road Trips: July 7 2007 Chicago, July 22nd 2007 Columbus, August 11 2007 NY, October 13 2007 LA, March 29 2008 Columbus, May 24th 2008 DC, May 26 2008 Montreal, June 28th 2008 NE, March 7-11-14 2009 Charleston, March 28 2009 Columbus, April 10 2010 New England, May 12 2010 Montreal, April 7 2012 Montreal, March 16 2013 Montreal , June 3 2014 Montreal, March 14 2015 Columbus

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  4. #1714
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post

    More likely, if the NFL comes to the GTA (and I'm pretty certain that Rogers pooched that idea with their inept Bills in Toronto thing but lets discuss this for the sake of discussing it), then the Argos cohabitat with an NFL team.
    And this plan doesn't help bring the NFL to Toronto. The NFL is pretty much the definition of, "Go big or go home." I guess it depends who's on the committee that will decide, but MLSE may need to find their own Jerry Jones to convince the NFL that they really will be able to pull off something special. So far, nothing in MLSE's history puts them anywhere near the NFL. But who knows, maybe for American football they'll really open the wallet.

  5. #1715
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsn3 View Post
    Just saying, if MLSE's long term plan is to move TFC to an NFL/MLS shared stadium in about 5 years time, and the Argos are left with a reno'd BMO Field all for them selves, how would MLSE want the stadium to look like then? Basically like the new Hamilton TigerCats stadium with a roof on the east and west stands? Something like this below? (makes me think the proposed North and South end seating and Roof is only temp for about 5 years, then it converts to a full time CFL stadium... just a theory...)
    Terrible theory ( By that I mean it disgusts me, not that anything isn't possible). Gridiron share. Argos bring in more fans. Just compare Argos at Rogers and DC at RFK or whatever it is. Even Seattle doesn't sellout but thrice a year.
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

  6. #1716
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    Argo games have been papered since the late 90's when I had seasons. Heck, at the Eastern Final last season, there were more Ti-Cat then Argo fans. 25K fans seems about right. MLSE can then focus on upping revenue per bum in the seat, which right now is pretty pitiful for the Argos.

    I think two of the bigger culture shocks for Argo fans are going to be the lack of the Jumbotron, everybody turns to the left or right to watch replays (when they bother to show them), and no longer having the "Fully Immersed at the bottom of a Tin Can feeling when being told to "MAKE SOME NOISE!!!" They are actually going to discover how loud they really are when in a confined space, and under an open air roof, something not heard in the CFL since the Eastern Roughies days at Landsdowne and the old Ex. Domes dampen sound except for baseball roars. The potential is there at BMO to create a special atmosphere for the CFL in a big city.

    The example of the Als comes to mind. They had to move to Percival and suddenly discovered how boisterous fans could be when in a confined space.

    The trick for MLSE is going to be how to make money off of it. There is no real growth in eyeball potential, what with TSN having the digital rights to everything. So I suspect that MLSE is going to ramp up ticket prices after the first season and do a lot of Merch. I believe its that lack of synergy potential that has been behind them not wanting to take on the Argos, as much as Tanenbaum would like to do so (he always seems more comfortable being involved in something that is being physically built rather then run). This isn't how MLSE does things.

    All in all, I'd rather be a TFC supporter because MLSE knows that the big money isn't in the supporters, its in the eyeballs and merch (just like with the Leafs). Ticket prices will rise in the coming years but unlike with the Argos, ticket revenue will never have to be the biggest revenue generator.

    Argo fans are going to be shocked at the prices they will be paying by 2020.
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 03-07-2014 at 09:42 AM.

  7. #1717
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haddy View Post
    Larson has a new article online for Friday's circulation.

    BMO Field expansion talk on agenda for Exhibition Place execs

    http://www.torontosun.com/2014/03/06...on-place-execs

    Also, apparently there is a handout of at least one rendering.


    Based on the vantage point that is depicted in this preliminary rendering, it appears as though it could actually look great inside the stadium. Perhaps the aesthetics outside the stadium might leave something to be desired for some, but I don't mind the old school look at all.

  8. #1718
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    On another note, I would not be surprised if MLSE now has a 10-15 year plan to slowly oust the Platinum corporate seat holders at the ACC. I know they are going to create a fan zone in the lower bowl, so to speak. As much as the Bay street types are good for consistent revenue, they are lousy for revenue growth.

    Suits are good in the suites. Not in the stands.

  9. #1719
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManUtd4ever View Post
    Based on the vantage point that is depicted in this preliminary rendering, it appears as though it could actually look great inside the stadium. Perhaps the aesthetics outside the stadium might leave something to be desired for some, but I don't mind the old school look at all.
    Honestly the design reminds me of a mini version of Corinthians new stadium http://stadiumdb.com/constructions/b...io_da_itaquera
    Last edited by Haddy; 03-07-2014 at 10:00 AM.

  10. #1720
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haddy View Post
    Honestly the design reminds me of a mini version of Corinthians new stadium http://stadiumdb.com/constructions/b...io_da_itaquera
    Yeah, you're right.

    It seems like it will still be an intimate setting, but with the feel of a large stadium.

  11. #1721
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    On another note, I would not be surprised if MLSE now has a 10-15 year plan to slowly oust the Platinum corporate seat holders at the ACC. I know they are going to create a fan zone in the lower bowl, so to speak. As much as the Bay street types are good for consistent revenue, they are lousy for revenue growth.

    Suits are good in the suites. Not in the stands.
    Yes, and the empty seats make for bad TV and that's where the real money is.

    Which also goes to what you said about the Argos' future ticket prices above - it depends on how much the fans in the stadium become props for the TV audience.

  12. #1722
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    On another note, I would not be surprised if MLSE now has a 10-15 year plan to slowly oust the Platinum corporate seat holders at the ACC. I know they are going to create a fan zone in the lower bowl, so to speak. As much as the Bay street types are good for consistent revenue, they are lousy for revenue growth.

    Suits are good in the suites. Not in the stands.
    With the vast majority owning Personal Seat Licenses, I don't see how this would even be a consideration.

  13. #1723
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManUtd4ever View Post
    Based on the vantage point that is depicted in this preliminary rendering, it appears as though it could actually look great inside the stadium. Perhaps the aesthetics outside the stadium might leave something to be desired for some, but I don't mind the old school look at all.
    The first time I saw that rendering I immeadiately thought - that kind of looks like Anfield. Also, it doesn't seem to match up with the floor plans - that video board is depicted in the NE corner and on the plans that shows boards in the NW and SE corners.

    Looks like another row of suites as well - $$$$$$$

  14. #1724
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    With the vast majority owning Personal Seat Licenses, I don't see how this would even be a consideration.
    Everything is doable. As I said, 10-15 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Everything is doable. As I said, 10-15 years.
    PSL for a pair of golds is $112,500 plus HST.

    As a PSL holder, I have the right to that seat. If MLSE wants to move me they need to buy my PSL and if they want to move me, like selling land to developers, my price goes up.

    Sure it may be possible. Possible may not equal feasible.

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    The full presentation from the other night with plans are on this website now:

    http://www.explace.on.ca/database/rt...ting_FINAL.pdf

  17. #1727
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    HOUSONT DYNAMO


    And they mention Ray Nitschke field, which is a practice facility. Curly Lambeau is the actual game day field.

    (Google is not MLSE's friend)

  18. #1728
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    The architect was a company called Gensler - which did the planning for the proposed Farmers Field Stadium in LA for the NFL team Tim Lieweke and AEG were trying to get. Seems to be a company Tim L has brought in to use. The Farmers Field design is pretty impressive... lets hope the final design for BMO turns out almost as nice.

    http://www.gensler.com/#projects

  19. #1729
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsn3 View Post
    The full presentation from the other night with plans are on this website now:

    http://www.explace.on.ca/database/rt...ting_FINAL.pdf
    This has to be one of the worst presentations for a stadium I have ever seen. I've seen sexier mock ups done for proposed expansions to industrial storage.

  20. #1730
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsn3 View Post
    The full presentation from the other night with plans are on this website now:

    http://www.explace.on.ca/database/rt...ting_FINAL.pdf
    Here are the links for the two design firms attached to this document:

    Icon Venue Group (http://iconvenue.com)

    Gensler (http://www.gensler.com)

  21. #1731
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    This has to be one of the worst presentations for a stadium I have ever seen. I've seen sexier mock ups done for proposed expansions to industrial storage.
    Ha ha. Very true.

  22. #1732
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsn3 View Post
    The full presentation from the other night with plans are on this website now:

    http://www.explace.on.ca/database/rt...ting_FINAL.pdf
    Sorry If this is a stupid question, but I guess there will be no seating in the north & south ends when the stadium is in the regular CFL configuration (25 k seats, north & south seating retracted)? Will look a bit strange: roof but no seats at the ends for CFL games.

  23. #1733
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    The "project manager" company seems to be Icon Venue Group.

    They worked on:
    - Houston Dynamo Stadium
    - New Atlanta Falcons stadium (NFL/MLS)
    - Farmers Field LA NFL stadium
    - Minnesota Vikings new stadium
    - BC Place renovation
    - Portland Timbers stadium renos
    - PPL park in Philly
    - new Barcelona FC proposed stadium renos
    - new DC United proposed stadium
    - Dicks sporting goods park
    - Redbull Arena New Jersey
    - Toyota Park in CHicago
    - plus other


    Pretty impressive actually. I think this "project manager" and architect should come up with something good for us. If the budget really is $120M still - im sure they will have a decent design. These 2 companies are probably also going to be used for any new stadiums for MLSE (such as NFL if they get to that one day) so im sure thye want to do a good job for BMO field.

  24. #1734
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    The Ex's Board has approved expansion plans. It's now up to city council.

    http://www.torontosun.com/2014/03/07...ansion-debated

  25. #1735
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    The kit launch plus seasons shipped. They could not have orchastrated this better.
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

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    If my tax dollars were put into a stadium I would want to to get as much use as possible, it will be great to see the Argos outdoors. I really believe once they get here , their fortunes will change. A lot more people will be attracted to the games and the revenue will rise. Just think about it, if BMO Field was not built and MLSE had the Reds play at Rogers Centre instead it would have sucked and the magic of the first few years would have never happened.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

  27. #1737
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    http://www.explace.on.ca/database/rt...provements.pdf

    March 6, 2014

    To: The Board of Governors of Exhibition Place

    From: Dianne Young/CEO
    Exhibition Place

    Subject: Improvements to BMO Field at Exhibition Place

    Summary:

    This report provides the principal terms and conditions of agreements to be entered into with
    Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd. (MLSE), the City and the Board of Governors of
    Exhibition Place (Board) with respect to major improvements to BMO Field which include the
    following:

    Increase the permanent seating capacity to 30,000 and allow for an additional 10,000 in
    temporary seating capacity;
    Add a partial roof that will cover the majority of the seats;
    Reconfigure the field so that the stadium can host Canadian Football League ("CFL") games;
    and
    Improve amenities within the stadium.

    If approved by the Board, this matter is intended to be considered by the City Executive
    Committee at its meeting of March 19, 2014 and by City Council at its meeting of April 1 & 2,
    2014.

    Recommendation(s):

    It is recommended that the Board:
    1. Direct that the confidential information contained in Confidential Attachment 1 to this
    report not be released publicly until such time that the City Manager has released his
    report to the Executive Committee;

    2. Approve of the Board, subject to approval of City Council, entering into the Letter of
    Intent (LOI) between the Board, the City and MLSE substantially in the form attached
    as Appendix “A” and the contemplated agreements including amendments to the
    Management Agreement (between MLSE, the City and the Board with respect to BMO
    Field), the Team Licence Agreement (between MLSE, MLS and the Board with respect
    to BMO Field), the Naming Rights Licence Agreement (between the Board, the City
    and MLSE) and including such other terms and conditions as required by the Deputy
    City Manager & Chief Financial Officer, the CEO of Exhibition Place and the City
    Solicitor; and



    ACTION REQUIRED
    2
    3. Request that the City transfer the balance of the funds in the Soccer Stadium Capital
    Maintenance Reserve Fund (XR3601) to Exhibition Place on December 31, 2014 so that
    these funds can be used to offset reduced parking income during the stadium
    improvements construction and also to fund the cost of new wayfinding signage for the
    grounds.

    Financial Impact:

    The recommendations in this report will result in a capital investment of $115 to $120.0M in
    BMO Field and a positive financial return to the Board and the City as set out more particularly
    in the Confidential Attachment “A” to this report.

    Decision History:
    At its meeting of October 19, 2005, the Board approved of entering into a project (construction)
    agreement, a management agreement, and facility usage agreements between the Board, the City
    and MLSE.

    At its meeting of October 26, 27, 28 and 31, 2005, City Council approved of Clause No. 36 of
    Report No. 9 of the Policy & Finance Committee which adopted the report and recommendations
    of the Board. In accordance with the Council authority, the Board, City, MLSE (as manager) and
    MLSE (as owner of Toronto FC) entered into a Management Agreement and Team Licence
    Agreement with respect to BMO Field and the City / Board contributed land at Exhibition Place
    together with a financial contribution of $9.8M, for the creation of the professional soccer
    stadium. Council also approved entering into a Contribution Agreement with the Province and
    the Federal Government with respect to the funding being provided by all three levels of
    government.

    At its meeting of September 11, 2009, the Board approved of amendments to the Management
    Agreement and other agreements as required to upgrade BMO Field from turf to natural grass;
    move the field bubble to Lamport Stadium; and cause the upgrade of the field at Lakeshore
    (Etobicoke) Collegiate Sports Field to turf all at a cost of $5.5M which was funded solely by
    MLSE. These amendments were then approved by City Council at its meeting of September
    30, 2009.

    At its meeting of February 14, 2014, the Board directed the call of a Community Liaison
    Committee meeting to solicit input from the community on any issues related to the proposed
    improvements to BMO Field.

    Issue Background:

    BMO Field is a 20,000 seat stadium owned by the Board / City and managed on behalf of
    Exhibition Place and the City by MLSE with the principal user being the Toronto FC soccer
    team, which is a franchise member of professional Major League Soccer ("MLS"). The stadium
    also hosts amateur soccer matches organized through the Canadian Soccer Association (CSA)
    along with community use including other events such as rugby matches.

    A winter bubble was originally used at this stadium until 2009 to allow for amateur soccer use in
    the off-season. In 2009, the Board/City approved the relocation of this bubble to Lamport
    Stadium.
    3
    The construction of BMO Field was originally funded using the contributions set out below in
    Table 1:



    Table 1 – Summary of Original Capital
    Contributions to Stadium Development Cost
    ($ millions)
    Federal Government 27.0
    Provincial Government 8.0
    City of Toronto
    cash 9.8
    land 10.0
    MLSEL 18.0
    Total: 72.8

    In 2009, MLSE invested a further $3.5M in BMO Field to convert the field from field turf to
    natural grass thus providing an improved playing surface for soccer.

    As part of the Management Agreement, MLSE shares profits from the stadium with Exhibition
    Place and as detailed in Table 3 below, since its opening annual profits paid to Exhibition Place
    have been in the range of $397,000. Exhibition Place operates parking on the site and shares
    331/3% of parking revenues with MLSE for Toronto FC soccer events. Since opening, the
    annual share of parking revenues paid to MLSE have been approximately $176,000.

    2009 2010 2011* 2012 2013 5-Year Average
    Stadium Profit Sharing $ 377,868 $ 323,965 $ 530,811 $ 334,125 $ 417,000 $ 396,754
    Parking Income Sharing $ 466,627 $ 425,021 $ 458,089 $ 510,655 $ 432,503 $ 458,579
    $ 844,495 $ 748,986 $ 988,900 $ 844,780 $ 849,503 $ 855,333
    * - Incorporates Settlement with Canadian Soccer Association
    Table 3 - Income Received by Exhibition Place from 2009-2013 BMO Field Events


    Comments:

    Proposed BMO Field Improvements

    The improvements to BMO Field being proposed by MLSE are as follows:

    Increase the permanent seating capacity to 30,000 and allow for an additional 10,000 in
    temporary seating capacity;
    Add a partial roof that will cover the majority of the seats;
    Reconfigure the field so that the stadium can host Canadian Football League ("CFL") games;
    and
    Improve amenities within the stadium.

    The expansion in seating capacity coincides with a major investment being made by MLSE in
    TFC team development.

    4
    Furthermore, the improvements will allow BMO Field to host CFL games and more particularly,
    be the home of the Toronto Argonaut (“Argos”) CFL team which has always been an objective
    of the City/Board as stated in the existing Management Agreement. This has become a more
    urgent objective as it is our understanding that the Rogers Centre has indicated that they do not
    wish to renew their agreement for hosting Argo home games beyond 2017.
    Finally, MLSE also expects that the enhanced seating capacity will improve the stadium`s ability
    to attract special events such as the National Hockey League`s Winter Classic or soccer matches
    with major international soccer teams.

    Community/Events Issues

    A meeting of the Community Liaison Committee was held on March 5, 2014, and was attended
    by residents of the local community; representatives of major show/events on the grounds; TFC
    supporters; and Exhibition Place tenants. Some of the issues raised at the meeting were as
    follows:

    Traffic flow to and from the grounds relating to limitations of local and arterial roadways;
    Need to improve transit/GO facilities and support from the TTC/GO to increase transit/GO
    use by attendees at both BMO Field events and other events on the grounds;
    Lack of any wayfinding on the grounds and better wayfinding on major arterial roadways;
    Gridlock on the grounds caused by multiple high-parking use events happening at one time
    resulting in loss of revenues to event producers and negative public opinion;
    A request to blackout MLSE use on certain dates when parking demand is already at
    capacity;
    Continual reduction in parking inventory at Exhibition Place;
    Growth of activities / events / tenant activities at Exhibition Place;
    A comment from MLSE that the National Home Show will not be impacted in 2015 and
    2016 by BMO Field games as they will not be playing at home in March during the
    construction;
    A request from the major shows to have traffic studies done as part of the expansion and a
    commitment by City Planning to have these done and reviewed by the City; and
    A request for the return of dedicated TTC express buses from outlying areas to the grounds
    on maximum capacity dates.

    Site Plan Control Process

    Exhibition Place and the BMO Field improvements are regulated by the City’s Site Plan Control
    process and all issues raised at the Community Liaison Committee meeting will be considered
    during this process. The process commences with an application by MLSE to the City which
    cannot happen until MLSE has finalized a proposed design which is likely to happen by the end
    of April. All materials submitted by MLSE are public documents and can be obtained by
    interested parties. Exhibition Place will also establish on its website access to any
    documentation and update on timelines.

    The Site Plan Process takes from four to six months with building permits being issued once all
    approvals have been received and MLSE enters into agreements setting out conditions for
    development.


    cont...

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    cont...

    5
    Financial / Agreement Terms

    Staff representatives from the City/Exhibition Place have been negotiating amendments to the
    Management Agreement over the last two months and the LOI reflects the present draft terms.
    Overriding directions within these negotiations were as follows:

    Required substantial financial and programming commitment from the private sector;
    Have no negative impact on the financial position of the City/Board;
    Allow for improvements to the stadium while at the same time protecting the building asset
    into the future; and
    Limit any potential for any negative impacts on the grounds or the local community.

    Community Sports Use of BMO Field

    While the increased investment in BMO Field at Exhibition Place is a very positive direction for
    both the City and the Board, the commitment to community sports use within BMO Field has
    always been paramount to the arrangement. The amended Management Agreement and other
    agreements approved by the Board in September 2009 require a commitment to provide at least a
    minimum of 12 hours per week of use for community sports purposes during the months of April
    to October. However, with the addition of Lamport community use there actually an increase in
    potential community use by over one thousand (1,000) hours. In addition to this community use
    at BMO Field on natural grass, there continues to be a right to use BMO Field by the City for 14
    days, Ontario Soccer Association (OSA) for 6 days, Canadian Soccer Association (CSA) for 6
    days, and the annual CNE for 18 days. With the improvements to BMO Field being
    recommended in this report, the commitment to community use as noted above will continue
    unchanged.

  29. #1739
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    Gensler? They outta be able to do better than that; that company is huuuge.

    Actually, I should re-phrase that. We should expect something decent because frankly there aren't any real renderings out yet. The simplicity of the roof is actually kinda growing on me, and I always thought the bare-bones look of BMO to be kinda cool anyway.
    Last edited by RealG-TFC; 03-07-2014 at 06:26 PM.

  30. #1740
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    Pinball Clemons was just on the news saying they are excited to have a stadium that's all their own.

    hmmmm?

 

 

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