View Poll Results: If seating expansion occurs... will we get a supporter/controlled section?

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  • Yes... They will finanlly get it

    82 22.10%
  • No.... They will screw this up royally

    213 57.41%
  • hmmm... not sure? how much money will they make from this?

    76 20.49%
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  1. #61
    olegunnar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boban View Post
    Paul also is not a construction guy.
    I agree with this.
    It always sounds fishy to me these fire regulation excuses. Are there no other exits? Of course there are. How about all the exits on the East side that were covered up in year 2 for food and beer stations.
    How about the equally large exits in the south end that are barely used.

    Every game I laughed at the masses of people lined up at the gate by the food building. The gates behind the south end 114-116, never had more than 20 people at them.

    The only thing I can think of is that the square footage of the north end beer garden is included with the square footage on the crappy undersized west side concourse, in some calculation for minimum open area requirements, because the idea you can't have seats in the north end because of a lack of exits, or too many people is laughable.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewski View Post
    but his is a guy in the FO who knows what can and can't be done based on agreements with the city
    How do you figure?
    His job is the ops side of the actual club.
    Infrastructure is someone elses domain.

  3. #63
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    someday...

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by olegunnar View Post
    I agree with this.
    It always sounds fishy to me these fire regulation excuses. Are there no other exits? Of course there are. How about all the exits on the East side that were covered up in year 2 for food and beer stations.
    How about the equally large exits in the south end that are barely used.

    Every game I laughed at the masses of people lined up at the gate by the food building. The gates behind the south end 114-116, never had more than 20 people at them.

    The only thing I can think of is that the square footage of the north end beer garden is included with the square footage on the crappy undersized west side concourse, in some calculation for minimum open area requirements, because the idea you can't have seats in the north end because of a lack of exits, or too many people is laughable.
    Olegunner you are bang on.
    You guys here would actually think they pop in a stadium without future expansion of the north side in mind?
    Come on people. The beer garden is only the reason and they will use any excuse to not build there. Fire code my ass.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by boban View Post
    Olegunner you are bang on.
    You guys here would actually think they pop in a stadium without future expansion of the north side in mind?
    Come on people. The beer garden is only the reason and they will use any excuse to not build there. Fire code my ass.
    Ever had the chance to look over the OBC and the FPPA/Ontario Fire Code?

    I'm not saying I necessarily agree with PB's statements about the fire code being the reason they can't build there, but you'd be surprised how MUCH it limits you, especially when it comes to public areas.

    Thing that gets me with the fire code side of things, is the space would change from an open air, non seating, to a fixed seating rating. Which theoretically, should IMPROVE the fire code situation from what I remember.

  6. #66
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    i like that new pic.

    i would want digital sponsor boards- i think they look PRO.

    and that concrete wall at the bottom of the seats - where the rails are attached to, this should be red. that way it wouldnt stand out.

  7. #67
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    digital boards would looks BO$$

  8. #68
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    C-Town put the RPB logo into the seats like BMO, the Maple Leaf etc.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedWookie View Post


    Give it 2-3 more seasons and lets just see how many people carry on with supporting the Toronto team and how many people give up after a while. If we have people who are like leafs fans and will come to games win-lose or draw, the people at BMO/MLS will notice and be ready to invest.
    who will give up on Toronto FC, we still go to leaf's game's and they haven't won in 42 year's and the ACC is still ramed ,with ticket's going up again. There is also a list of about 10 000 - 14 000 people waiting to get season ticket's so how don't u make BMO bigger ? Fuck we need more seat's and we it bad

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfctillidie View Post


    someday...
    Looks good but NO ROOF

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfctillidie View Post


    someday...
    Thats about the right amount of people in the stands if the stadium expanded to that size.

    IMHO the stadium is actually the right size for the fanbase. The problem is that many people have tickets who shouldn't have them (scalpers) or don't need them (people with 8 season tickets for a family of 2). The numbers on the waiting list don't tell the true story. How many people on that list would actually get season tickets? How many passed up getting seasons this year (it was actually easier than i thought...if you were willing to pay the money for non-supporter seats)? How many on that list would passthem up? How many put their name on and forgot about it? How many would be die hards and go to every game or just use them sporadically? How many are just to have for business clients? How many are for scalpers, or for people who are greedy and just want more tickets for the sake of having them?......Lots of quetions, but all very valid.

    What they need is total restructuring of existing season tickets, not expanding the stadium and not dealing with the current problems. Those will not be solved by expansion.

  12. #72
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    ^ True. I think the quote from MLSEL was something like "up to 8,000 without doing a complete rebuild". Does this mean there are several sceanarios with a different amount of seats added? I just wish they did a few things to "even out the edges" and use some paint etc to make it look less like a tin can.

    I agree that the waiting list needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

    The other variable is what if they win/don't win something this year especially in the barren wasteland that is Toronto sports at the moment. What will that do to the fan base?

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    The numbers on the waiting list don't tell the true story. How many people on that list would actually get season tickets? How many passed up getting seasons this year (it was actually easier than i thought...if you were willing to pay the money for non-supporter seats)? How many on that list would passthem up? How many put their name on and forgot about it? How many would be die hards and go to every game or just use them sporadically? How many are just to have for business clients? How many are for scalpers, or for people who are greedy and just want more tickets for the sake of having them?......Lots of quetions, but all very valid.
    Very good questions in here. I've often wondered about the makeup of the waiting list. How many people are there that are expecting $200.00 tickets in the supporters end, but would take $1000.00 tickets in an all seated area.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaughno View Post
    Ever had the chance to look over the OBC and the FPPA/Ontario Fire Code?

    I'm not saying I necessarily agree with PB's statements about the fire code being the reason they can't build there, but you'd be surprised how MUCH it limits you, especially when it comes to public areas.

    Thing that gets me with the fire code side of things, is the space would change from an open air, non seating, to a fixed seating rating. Which theoretically, should IMPROVE the fire code situation from what I remember.
    Roll your eyes at someone else.
    PB has noithing to do with infrastructure so in my books its almost irrelevant what he says on stadium expansion.
    I know someone who works with MLSE on infrastructure and has way more experience on things of this nature that you, I, or PB will ever had. It can be done.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by boban View Post
    Roll your eyes at someone else.
    PB has noithing to do with infrastructure so in my books its almost irrelevant what he says on stadium expansion.
    I know someone who works with MLSE on infrastructure and has way more experience on things of this nature that you, I, or PB will ever had. It can be done.
    Good for you. I'm speaking from my experience in working directly with the Fire Code and the Ontario Building Code.

    I rolled my eyes because you fluffed it off like it's nothing, when in reality it's a fucking pain in the ass to deal with, especially when it comes to renovations.

    If you bothered to read my post, I basically agreed that it shouldn't affect that particular area (north end). Meaning, it can be done if they wanted it to.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by boban View Post
    Paul also is not a construction guy.
    He may not be a construction guy, but don't you think he talks to the construction guys a lot if he's examining proposals and plans to expand the stadium? (which he is, BTW)
    Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaughno View Post
    Good for you. I'm speaking from my experience in working directly with the Fire Code and the Ontario Building Code.

    I rolled my eyes because you fluffed it off like it's nothing, when in reality it's a fucking pain in the ass to deal with, especially when it comes to renovations.

    If you bothered to read my post, I basically agreed that it shouldn't affect that particular area (north end). Meaning, it can be done if they wanted it to.
    I'm not saying there are not challenges. But to completely dismiss expansion as PB seems to elude is ridiculous. I never fluffed it off. But speaking form people who are in the know and their expert opinion - which has more weight than PB in this instance.

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    I think 25000 is as big as the stadium should get for a long time... and I only say that because I want in. Too much expansion too soon is always a bad idea. We still don't have a good idea of what kind of crowd the team will actually draw, once the shine has worn off. I hope they don't even consider expansion until after season five.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    He may not be a construction guy, but don't you think he talks to the construction guys a lot if he's examining proposals and plans to expand the stadium? (which he is, BTW)
    But that doesn't mean it CAN'T happen Jack, it could be his wording so that he doesn't have to say, they won't let it happen *cough* sponsors *cough*

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    He may not be a construction guy, but don't you think he talks to the construction guys a lot if he's examining proposals and plans to expand the stadium? (which he is, BTW)
    Not really. His scope is the club. Not infrastructure.
    He may be kept abreast on where things are going, but his decision is most likely kept to a minimum. When he mentions trades, players on trial, friendlies, etc. (things to do with the actual club), then I will take head.
    Alsemi is the guy at MLSE for infrastructure and his team. And even they don't make all the calls as they have to consult architects and the GC.

  21. #81
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    PB is the Business Manager of TFC. The player signings, trials and all that stuff is down to Mo Johnston.

    I never said he was making the decisions, but he is involved in the process, no question.

    Anyway, I don't really know what we're arguing about here. Who cares? When the time comes for expansion, all our questions will be answered. Until then, it's all speculation.
    Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy

  22. #82
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    ^^^ - I had hoped these type of threads would have died off with the start of the season...

  23. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    PB is the Business Manager of TFC. The player signings, trials and all that stuff is down to Mo Johnston.

    I never said he was making the decisions, but he is involved in the process, no question.

    Anyway, I don't really know what we're arguing about here. Who cares? When the time comes for expansion, all our questions will be answered. Until then, it's all speculation.
    You are the one who is arguing.
    YBut you are correct, he is the BM of TFC, not the stadium.
    My point is that people seem to take PB word on stadium issues as some word of God or law, when in fact he experience in that field is not there, nor is it his scope.
    He may be involved in the process, but minimally, as my contacts don't even know who he is.

  24. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by boban View Post
    Not really. His scope is the club. Not infrastructure.
    He may be kept abreast on where things are going, but his decision is most likely kept to a minimum. When he mentions trades, players on trial, friendlies, etc. (things to do with the actual club), then I will take head.
    Alsemi is the guy at MLSE for infrastructure and his team. And even they don't make all the calls as they have to consult architects and the GC.
    His scope is the BUSINESS of the club, not the club itself. So, in fact, those things you listed are things PB would not know much about (without talking to Mo). He is in charge of making the club make money, so overseeing things like advertising, growth plans, etc. So, actually, expansion of BMO field would very much be in his scope (though obviously it would be the overall concepts of expansion and not the specifics of it, they would employ experts for that.)

  25. #85
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    I would be fine with adding a smaller number of seats if they also improve the overall "look and feel" of the stadium.

    I remember as a kid exploring MLG once and seeing a giant wrought iron Canadian coat of arms. Where is this thing? Wouldn't it be cool to use it in a entrance way to BMO a la the YNWA gates at Anfield?

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    Quote Originally Posted by boban View Post
    Roll your eyes at someone else.
    PB has noithing to do with infrastructure so in my books its almost irrelevant what he says on stadium expansion.
    I know someone who works with MLSE on infrastructure and has way more experience on things of this nature that you, I, or PB will ever had. It can be done.

    That's rediculous. Do you REALLy think that PB, Dir of Ops would not be involved in expansion plans from a business perspective? he would know exactly what was taking place because he would have to present the business case for it to the board.

  27. #87
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    ^^ I think that's what Boban was getting at, Paul won't necessarily know the specifics and he may only know what's best for the club and not all available options. What does it matter at this point? I dunno.

  28. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonO View Post
    ^^^ - I had hoped these type of threads would have died off with the start of the season...

    Exapnsion of BMO was a legit thread as MLSE mentioned it and there were articles about it. I know its speculation but if we only talked about things that have happened or will happen for sure there would be like 3 threads.

  29. #89
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    its like i'm not even in the room....

    My comments on expansion into the north end have been tempered with a "likely scenario" perspective. When MLSEL is looking at expansion, we need to take some factors into account:
    1) we do not own the building and will probably never own the building because of its location on Ex Place. all the property there belongs to the city. So if we invest in the building it has to have some sort of payback...and remember we're not adding top price seats. Add to that the payback has to come over 19 games (or so) a year. Just like if you are renting a house, you'd think long and hard before renovating.
    2) the north patio (and the north limit to the property) is quite tight. When I said we need it for fire egress I was referring to a worst case scenario (thats how the fire marshall looks at it, and rightly so.) for us the worst case is a disaster during a Full House event (rock concert with over 10,000 people on the field). As I understand it all patrons need 2 exit opportunities, and the building needs to be able to evacuate in a number of minutes. Given all of that, expanding on the north is not impossible, just not practical.

    I'll reserve comment on the breadth of my responsibilities. I know what I do for a living. Funny how others feel they can comment. Gotta go. I have to call the infrastructure department.

  30. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlsintoronto View Post
    As I understand it all patrons need 2 exit opportunities, and the building needs to be able to evacuate in a number of minutes. Given all of that, expanding on the north is not impossible, just not practical.
    That's what I was saying.

 

 

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