Bmo Field Expansion

[Beach_Red]

http://www.amazon.com/Last-Headbange...nd+salary+caps

And the library has it, thanks. Looks good.

Is there another book about how baseball lost its place as #1?

[Beach_Red]

I suggest

America's Game: The Epic Story of how Pro Football Captured a Nation by Michael MacCambridge This might deserve a thread of it's own. The rise of the NFL is really a story of being in the right place in the right time, over and over again. Football in post war America was the sport best suited to television. A predictable time slot, a suitable game length, plenty of action. When television improved and was looking for heroes, the NFL was ready to provide - Staubach for the conservatives, Namath for the hipsters. When Black America was looking for heroes, the NFL supplied Jim Brown, Gale Sayers, OJ Simpson (I know, I know, I know but he was a big deal for eons). Also the broadcasters themselves became stars - Madden, Cosell... Communities flocked to football in a way that the other sport, baseball, could only dream of. High school on Friday night bred local heroes. College games on Saturday built a stage for future heroes (and the NFL was getting talent developed and promoted at ZERO cost). This gathering of the tribe aspect of NFL life also meant the rise of tailgating - attending a game was an all day party...of course when your team is on the road you head to drinking establishments to follow your team. Either way - a consumption culture that the companies riding that wave wanted to keep going and reaching through tv advertising.. NFL football also had the advantage of landing in the perfect seasonal shift. Associated with fall and back to school from it's college roots, tv networks knew it as the time when folks shifted from outdoor activities to indoor television watching. That is why American networks launch their new seasons in September. NFL football was/is tv gold. The Super Bowl became the mega pot at the end of the rainbow. Pete Rozelle, back in the sixties, was smart enough to make sure that all teams benefitted equally from television money. When the US turned hard against labour unions (Reagan) the NFL broke the Players Union with the famous replacement players season. Always insisting that owners be individuals, not corporations, meant that even the billionaire owners became part of the show... And I have not even started into how NFL was the perfect sport for betting.

This one looks good, too, thanks.

If MLS does it right, someday there will be a book about how soccer was best suited for the shift away from networks to online watching and the globalization era as America became more integrated into the rest of the world (maybe the announcement about Cuba yesterday will get a mention).

And maybe someday there will be a book about how MLSE screwed up the best sports opportunity in Canada with TFC.

[greatwhitenorf]

Just curious, is there much of a correlation between minor sports participation and adult watching (TV or live)? I guess the idea is that kids who play grow up to be fans, which makes sense, but it seems that's not really enough - in any sport - to account for the kinds of TV ratings leagues like the NFL get. Or NASCAR.

I'm no media scientist. But I grew up in a time when kids were beginning to make soccer boom. Their parents may not have been big fans of the game, but those kids grew up with a better understanding of the game. When they became parents, the process of accepting soccer became just that little bit easier and their kids got into the game. And the process continued until today.

Not every kid who plays soccer has parents just off the boat. There's plenty of long-standing Canadian kids playing and loving the game.

What's really changed is the advent of, first, specialized television delivery systems - cable and satellite dish - and, second, the internet and webcasting It's so easy now for any soccer fan to follow the game like never before. That technology lends itself to a younger audience, something that really benefitted soccer. We were no longer dependant on the views of mainstream sports journalists who either sneered at or were totally ignorant of soccer - Dave 'Smirkin' Perkins, Lance 'Bingo!' Brown, Pat 'BarTab' Marsden, Motormouth Mark Habsher, Jim 'The Italian Scallion' Tatti, Jim 'Jeepers' Hunt, Milt 'The Tunnel' Dunnell, Trent Frayne, Red Ruffansore, and so on.

Many of the world's major soccer clubs have an English-language option on their website, as do many prominent sports publications (i.e. La Gazzetta della Sport), so fans can sample views and perspectives from all over the game and make their own minds up about soccer issues.

Much of the viewership of soccer today isn't reflected in mainstream television ratings. The CFL looks good because it still appeals to an older segment of the population who grew up with the game and, where winter comes in early, have something to watch once bad weather turns them into shut-ins. Curling benfits from that in a similar manner. Yet for all those decent TV numbers, much of the CFL operates on the thinnest of profit margins or in the red. The TV ratings don't account for why TFC or Montreal Impact or Vancouver Whitecaps are all - usually - more profitable each year than the CFL clubs in their respective cities.

One of the bright young things at TFC, Anton Wimmer, told me two or three years back that MLSE carefully study the marketplace to measure how their sports properties are trending. The findings showed that hockey still has a way to go before it loses its 'blue-chip' status. But hockey is definitely facing serious challenges to maintain its current level of popularity. I know from speaking to certain clients involved in corporate marketing that there's a lot of attention being focused on the fact that male hockey registrations have been in steady decline since the mid-90s. No one truly trusts the numbers Hockey Canada puts out. But John Gardiner, president of the GTHL, has often been quoted about concerns his league is steadily shrinking, and that's despite absorbing the failing Scarborough Hockey Association.

The only thing that has kept hockey registrations close to the number of two decades ago is that female registrations have risen sufficiently to offset declines in male numbers. But sponsors don't look at that as a like-for-like trade-off. It's the male version of the game that drives much of the sponsorship business.

Soccer registrations have no such problem. It has been onward and upward across the country going on 30 years now.

[Fort York Redcoat]

With BMO not being available for the first 7-8 games of the season, with the international break at the end of March it would been perfect time for them to partner with the CSA and splashed a double header with a Canada game.

I'm gonna go ahead and assume you mean a Toronto FC match followed by a Canada friendly. I will never accuse you of thinking "within the box". Ever.

They should play a few home games in Hamilton at the Pan Am games soccer stadium.

Just no.

Hamilton will get an NASL team with this Pan Am coup they achieved. I think fans from the Hammer should be ecstatic.

[Beach_Red]

Much of the viewership of soccer today isn't reflected in mainstream television ratings. The CFL looks good because it still appeals to an older segment of the population who grew up with the game and, where winter comes in early, have something to watch once bad weather turns them into shut-ins. Curling benfits from that in a similar manner. Yet for all those decent TV numbers, much of the CFL operates on the thinnest of profit margins or in the red. The TV ratings don't account for why TFC or Montreal Impact or Vancouver Whitecaps are all - usually - more profitable each year than the CFL clubs in their respective cities.

The question is, can MLS be the CFL of soccer in the USA? Or, will MLS teams have to spend like the top European teams on players to attract more fans? The CFL works because its expenses are so low and its fanbase is okay with that (for now). Sadly, you are probably right that there isn't a big enough fanbase to make a sport without all-multi-millionaire players profitable.

Moving to the next stage for soccer in the USA isn't a given. In Canada it's true, hockey may just continue to shrink and not fight it in any way, but the US sports market is crowded and very competitive. Trying to start at the pro level without big TV ratings for college games (the way football and basketball did it) may or may not work out. Too early to tell.

[Ajax TFC]

The thing with the CFL is that there's such an abundance of gridiron football talent produced, and players that don't make it to the NFL don't really have much choice other than to go to the CFL. Increasing salaries wouldn't change the fact that those who can play in the NFL are going to play in the NFL, so they're able to get away with paying low salaries and not have it really effect the quality, and they're still able to field a quality product that's fun to watch. With soccer on the other hand, there's such a massive demand for talent that if you want the talent, you have to pay for it. If you want to produce a quality product, you have to either pay for the talent, or you have to develop the talent in house, and if you can't pay to keep the players around, then you have to sell them and keep producing more talent.

[molenshtain]

schedule's released (sort of). We'll get to see this baby on may 10th.

[East York]

I'm no media scientist. But I grew up in a time when kids were beginning to make soccer boom. Their parents may not have been big fans of the game, but those kids grew up with a better understanding of the game. When they became parents, the process of accepting soccer became just that little bit easier and their kids got into the game. And the process continued until today.

Not every kid who plays soccer has parents just off the boat. There's plenty of long-standing Canadian kids playing and loving the game.

What's really changed is the advent of, first, specialized television delivery systems - cable and satellite dish - and, second, the internet and webcasting It's so easy now for any soccer fan to follow the game like never before. That technology lends itself to a younger audience, something that really benefitted soccer. We were no longer dependant on the views of mainstream sports journalists who either sneered at or were totally ignorant of soccer - Dave 'Smirkin' Perkins, Lance 'Bingo!' Brown, Pat 'BarTab' Marsden, Motormouth Mark Habsher, Jim 'The Italian Scallion' Tatti, Jim 'Jeepers' Hunt, Milt 'The Tunnel' Dunnell, Trent Frayne, Red Ruffansore, and so on.

Many of the world's major soccer clubs have an English-language option on their website, as do many prominent sports publications (i.e. La Gazzetta della Sport), so fans can sample views and perspectives from all over the game and make their own minds up about soccer issues.

Much of the viewership of soccer today isn't reflected in mainstream television ratings. The CFL looks good because it still appeals to an older segment of the population who grew up with the game and, where winter comes in early, have something to watch once bad weather turns them into shut-ins. Curling benfits from that in a similar manner. Yet for all those decent TV numbers, much of the CFL operates on the thinnest of profit margins or in the red. The TV ratings don't account for why TFC or Montreal Impact or Vancouver Whitecaps are all - usually - more profitable each year than the CFL clubs in their respective cities.

One of the bright young things at TFC, Anton Wimmer, told me two or three years back that MLSE carefully study the marketplace to measure how their sports properties are trending. The findings showed that hockey still has a way to go before it loses its 'blue-chip' status. But hockey is definitely facing serious challenges to maintain its current level of popularity. I know from speaking to certain clients involved in corporate marketing that there's a lot of attention being focused on the fact that male hockey registrations have been in steady decline since the mid-90s. No one truly trusts the numbers Hockey Canada puts out. But John Gardiner, president of the GTHL, has often been quoted about concerns his league is steadily shrinking, and that's despite absorbing the failing Scarborough Hockey Association.

The only thing that has kept hockey registrations close to the number of two decades ago is that female registrations have risen sufficiently to offset declines in male numbers. But sponsors don't look at that as a like-for-like trade-off. It's the male version of the game that drives much of the sponsorship business.

Soccer registrations have no such problem. It has been onward and upward across the country going on 30 years now.

I agree with a lot of what your said above. However the business model for the CFL has changed and i would say, that quietly the CFL teams in Montreal and Vanoucover are doing very well. The Al's owner cried poor, so the city would pay for the staidum upgrade, of which they did, but Montreal does 6 Million in Corp supports and has the hightest ticket prices in the CFL. 10,000 seats for the Al's cost over 120.00 each and those sections are soldout evey year. even at 22,000 per game the Al's do over 2 million per game, add the 6 million in Corp support and the 4.5 million in TV money and they do well. Which is why Montreal paid over 600,000 for consultants this year when they got off to a slow start. BC does the same. You can run a CFL team on between 13 to 16 million. The private owners in the CFL are like the original 6 owners in the NHL. They tell everyone that listen that they just break even or lose money. meanwhile teams like the Riders and EDM MUST post their renvunes and the Riders had close to 40 million in renvunue, yet claimed 6 million in profit. so 33 Million to run a CFL team, give me a break. The CFL killed the pllayers in contract talks and will be reaping in money going forward with the new staduims and TV deals, but the league wants everyone to think they just get by. The only team that losses money now is THE TORONTO aRGOOOOOS. f the Argos move to BMO will that turn them into a profitable team, don't know, but will sure cut the losess down

[Beach_Red]

The thing with the CFL is that there's such an abundance of gridiron football talent produced, and players that don't make it to the NFL don't really have much choice other than to go to the CFL. Increasing salaries wouldn't change the fact that those who can play in the NFL are going to play in the NFL, so they're able to get away with paying low salaries and not have it really effect the quality, and they're still able to field a quality product that's fun to watch. With soccer on the other hand, there's such a massive demand for talent that if you want the talent, you have to pay for it. If you want to produce a quality product, you have to either pay for the talent, or you have to develop the talent in house, and if you can't pay to keep the players around, then you have to sell them and keep producing more talent.

Yes, so this is the dilemma. Some markets in the world accept a product that isn't the best - Canadian football fans, Swiss hockey fans, etc., but will American soccer fans? Will Toronto soccer fans? I guess we'll find out in the next few years.

[Ajax TFC]

Yes, so this is the dilemma. Some markets in the world accept a product that isn't the best - Canadian football fans, Swiss hockey fans, etc., but will American soccer fans? Will Toronto soccer fans? I guess we'll find out in the next few years.

I think American soccer fans could accept a product that isn't the world's best, but it has to actually be of high enough quality. The quality gap in play right now between MLS and the top is just way too big for people who want to watch high quality soccer. But if MLS can get to the point where it produces domestic talent of similar quality to the domestic talent of the European leagues, and starts competing to sign star players who aren't about to retire, then I could see MLS competing with the other big leagues in NA for fans. I also don't think it's unrealistic for MLS to eventually get to eventually get there. I think it has the potential to get there so long as the league grows at an appropriate rate (not too fast that they're growing the league faster than the fanbase, but also not intentionally retarding the growth of the league too much)

[Kaz]

I'm no media scientist. But I grew up in a time when kids were beginning to make soccer boom. Their parents may not have been big fans of the game, but those kids grew up with a better understanding of the game. When they became parents, the process of accepting soccer became just that little bit easier and their kids got into the game. And the process continued until today.

Not every kid who plays soccer has parents just off the boat. There's plenty of long-standing Canadian kids playing and loving the game.

What's really changed is the advent of, first, specialized television delivery systems - cable and satellite dish - and, second, the internet and webcasting It's so easy now for any soccer fan to follow the game like never before. That technology lends itself to a younger audience, something that really benefitted soccer. We were no longer dependant on the views of mainstream sports journalists who either sneered at or were totally ignorant of soccer - Dave 'Smirkin' Perkins, Lance 'Bingo!' Brown, Pat 'BarTab' Marsden, Motormouth Mark Habsher, Jim 'The Italian Scallion' Tatti, Jim 'Jeepers' Hunt, Milt 'The Tunnel' Dunnell, Trent Frayne, Red Ruffansore, and so on.

Many of the world's major soccer clubs have an English-language option on their website, as do many prominent sports publications (i.e. La Gazzetta della Sport), so fans can sample views and perspectives from all over the game and make their own minds up about soccer issues.

Much of the viewership of soccer today isn't reflected in mainstream television ratings. The CFL looks good because it still appeals to an older segment of the population who grew up with the game and, where winter comes in early, have something to watch once bad weather turns them into shut-ins. Curling benfits from that in a similar manner. Yet for all those decent TV numbers, much of the CFL operates on the thinnest of profit margins or in the red. The TV ratings don't account for why TFC or Montreal Impact or Vancouver Whitecaps are all - usually - more profitable each year than the CFL clubs in their respective cities.

One of the bright young things at TFC, Anton Wimmer, told me two or three years back that MLSE carefully study the marketplace to measure how their sports properties are trending. The findings showed that hockey still has a way to go before it loses its 'blue-chip' status. But hockey is definitely facing serious challenges to maintain its current level of popularity. I know from speaking to certain clients involved in corporate marketing that there's a lot of attention being focused on the fact that male hockey registrations have been in steady decline since the mid-90s. No one truly trusts the numbers Hockey Canada puts out. But John Gardiner, president of the GTHL, has often been quoted about concerns his league is steadily shrinking, and that's despite absorbing the failing Scarborough Hockey Association.

The only thing that has kept hockey registrations close to the number of two decades ago is that female registrations have risen sufficiently to offset declines in male numbers. But sponsors don't look at that as a like-for-like trade-off. It's the male version of the game that drives much of the sponsorship business.

Soccer registrations have no such problem. It has been onward and upward across the country going on 30 years now.

I was talking with a youth Hockey guy last year and they were saying they are looking to actually buy Goalie equipment because they can't get anyone to play because the gear is so expensive. That is the Entry issue to hockey, you don't have outdoor, free rinks to go play on like we would have years ago, everything is charged and organized, so kids don't just play. You don't have schools doing it as much, growing up in Northern Ontario every kid learned to skate at some point.

Soccer requires a pair or two of shoes, and some shin guards. Much lower cost of entry. The issue which is slowly changing, is that there was no pro league, How many of us switched to Hockey, AmCan Football or Baseball because that is what is on TV those were the people you could look up to? Soccer wasn't on TV. American Soccer as only been on TV since the late 90s and really so you don't have that build up yet of Soccer stars. Really it wasn't noticed until Beckham in 2007 So the kids that would have gotten interested have only had 7 years. MLS needs to build it's brand and get people watching. (it really doesn't matter if it is Euro or American, they just need to be watching so they stick with it beyond a rec level)

[OgtheDim]

So apparently our opening day is Sunday May 10 at 5:00 pm.



Mother's Day

[sidvan]

I was talking with a youth Hockey guy last year and they were saying they are looking to actually buy Goalie equipment because they can't get anyone to play because the gear is so expensive. That is the Entry issue to hockey, you don't have outdoor, free rinks to go play on like we would have years ago, everything is charged and organized, so kids don't just play. You don't have schools doing it as much, growing up in Northern Ontario every kid learned to skate at some point.

Soccer requires a pair or two of shoes, and some shin guards. Much lower cost of entry. The issue which is slowly changing, is that there was no pro league, How many of us switched to Hockey, AmCan Football or Baseball because that is what is on TV those were the people you could look up to? Soccer wasn't on TV. American Soccer as only been on TV since the late 90s and really so you don't have that build up yet of Soccer stars. Really it wasn't noticed until Beckham in 2007 So the kids that would have gotten interested have only had 7 years. MLS needs to build it's brand and get people watching. (it really doesn't matter if it is Euro or American, they just need to be watching so they stick with it beyond a rec level)

I believe the declining state of the game is due to the increased personal safety focus. Kids aren't allowed to go out and play on the field or street anymore. Parents and society have become so concerned about what may happen to little Johnny if left unsupervised that the individual skills and technical ability tried, failed, tried and tried again until perfected against their peers, have disappeared.

[ag futbol]

I was talking with a youth Hockey guy last year and they were saying they are looking to actually buy Goalie equipment because they can't get anyone to play because the gear is so expensive. That is the Entry issue to hockey, you don't have outdoor, free rinks to go play on like we would have years ago, everything is charged and organized, so kids don't just play. You don't have schools doing it as much, growing up in Northern Ontario every kid learned to skate at some point.

Soccer requires a pair or two of shoes, and some shin guards. Much lower cost of entry. The issue which is slowly changing, is that there was no pro league, How many of us switched to Hockey, AmCan Football or Baseball because that is what is on TV those were the people you could look up to? Soccer wasn't on TV. American Soccer as only been on TV since the late 90s and really so you don't have that build up yet of Soccer stars. Really it wasn't noticed until Beckham in 2007 So the kids that would have gotten interested have only had 7 years. MLS needs to build it's brand and get people watching. (it really doesn't matter if it is Euro or American, they just need to be watching so they stick with it beyond a rec level)

Slowly but surely things are starting to work out. I overheard two kids in practice gear on the train today in Calgary talking about the U17 team that was just announced. One kid from Calgary made it, but he was the only one who didn't play for a pro club. Message was clear: have to play for a pro team to make the nats. Kids now understand where to go. That's a huge difference from 10 years ago where the pathway was so convoluted and complex not many people understood how to get the training you need to be a professional or make the national team.

Still a lot of issues and we lack someone who wants to make the big changes needed, but at least some things are getting better.

[greatwhitenorf]

Bob McCown took a hard rip at the Argos and the BMO Field situation today in the first hour of his show. Basically slagged the entire notion of a ground share.

Now, I understand Rogers are no friends of the Argos, but generally McCown gets to freely speak his mind. He has, in the past, lent his support to the Argos and had previous owners on for cozy chats and hype sessions when the last Grey Cup was here.

When prompted to opine on the mooted joint tenancy at BMO Field, he basically says the Argos are on life support and that owner David Braley isn't putting a nickel of his own money anymore into the team, again venturing that the club loses north of $6 million annually. He didn't think the move to BMO would do anything to give hope to the Argos long-term decline and wondered why anyone would throw good money after bad ripping BMO Field apart to accommodate them.

[Shakes McQueen]

Bob McCown took a hard rip at the Argos and the BMO Field situation today in the first hour of his show. Basically slagged the entire notion of a ground share.

Now, I understand Rogers are no friends of the Argos, but generally McCown gets to freely speak his mind. He has, in the past, lent his support to the Argos and had previous owners on for cozy chats and hype sessions when the last Grey Cup was here.

When prompted to opine on the mooted joint tenancy at BMO Field, he basically says the Argos are on life support and that owner David Braley isn't putting a nickel of his own money anymore into the team, again venturing that the club loses north of $6 million annually. He didn't think the move to BMO would do anything to give hope to the Argos long-term decline and wondered why anyone would throw good money after bad ripping BMO Field apart to accommodate them.

The hard truth is that it might be time for either the Argos to leave the metro Toronto area, or for the CFL to run the team for a while, until another owner comes along. If the CFL considers having a Toronto team to be so important, it may be time for them to step up - though I'd love to see how the other, profitable teams react to that.

The Argos have had two previous opportunities to get in on a joint stadium deal, and they opted not to plan for the long term, to toil away at the Rogers Centre instead. Now the Jays are kicking them out, and they are flailing around with no plan. They've made this bed for themselves, and now they can lie in it.

[OgtheDim]

Apparently, our home opener will be on ESPN2 as the opener of that week's Sunday night double header. Something about BMO becoming the largest SSS in the league.

[Pookie]

Soccer requires a pair or two of shoes, and some shin guards. Much lower cost of entry.

I think the watch out for all of us as parents/players is that soccer training for those at a competitive level is starting to look at lot like hockey on the personal budget spreadsheet.

The new OPDL in Ontario has 10 month, 3/4 days a week training in supposedly structured, coach certified training environments. Fees, not including travel-hotel for the season range from $3,500 to over $5,000 per player depending on the club.

OPDL is the OSA's elite league. The pathway to Provincial and National teams.

I agree with you Kaz on the general cost of entry but soccer isn't as cheap as it we tend to think it is for those that are serious out it. And unlike many soccer hotbeds around the world, kids don't play "street soccer" so development will usually involve a formal program.

[Pookie]

The hard truth is that it might be time for either the Argos to leave the metro Toronto area, or for the CFL to run the team for a while, until another owner comes along. If the CFL considers having a Toronto team to be so important, it may be time for them to step up - though I'd love to see how the other, profitable teams react to that.

The Argos have had two previous opportunities to get in on a joint stadium deal, and they opted not to plan for the long term, to toil away at the Rogers Centre instead. Now the Jays are kicking them out, and they are flailing around with no plan. They've made this bed for themselves, and now they can lie in it.

All well and good except we know that our TFC operators have extended a lease deal to them. They have done the diligence. Considered the impact. And decided to move forward with a legal offer.

As will happen, terms will be negotiated. Sides will consider accepting or walking away. At the end of the day, there is a business case that motivated the lease offer and that will likely result in the successful (or unsuccessful if you are a fan of soccer specific stadiums) conclusion of this business transaction.

[OgtheDim]

All well and good except we know that our TFC operators have extended a lease deal to them.....

My brain can't remember where that bit of news leaked from. Was it Cohen at the Grey Cup?

[Pookie]

My brain can't remember where that bit of news leaked from. Was it Cohen at the Grey Cup?

It came from Dave Naylor on TSN during Grey Cup week. A few pages back has the link, I think.

[dupont]

Having to start the season with so many road games could be pretty deflating to the team. In MLS, road points are tough to come by so they have the risk of having a record that seems terrible before even playing one game at home. It could balance out later with lots of home games but it could cause low morale. I hope this all works out better than I'm picturing it.

[Pookie]

Interesting summary and clear direction from those that are looking at the CFL Commissioner Job that Argos-BMO is a priority as part of a long term plan for stability. This is from an interview with rumoured candidate Skip Prince (formerly of the Montreal Alouettes) from Dan Ralph of the Canadian Press:

…. the Argonauts still haven't found a new home with their Rogers Centre lease set to expire in 2017. The club reportedly remains in talks with MLSE regarding a lease for BMO Field but that deal is contingent on the completion of a $125-million renovation at the outdoor facility.

MLSE is contributing $95 million toward the expansion with the city of Toronto agreeing to provide $10 million. But the anticipated funding of $10 million each from the provincial and federal governments hasn't materialized, potentially threatening completion of the project.

The Ontario Liberals are expected to contribute $10 million but the federal government is reportedly balking. That could force the CFL to make up the $10-million shortfall in order to secure the Argos' future.

The Argos have long been plagued by attendance issues at the cavernous Rogers Centre, which can hold over 50,000 for football. Toronto averaged less than 18,000 fans per game there last year and many football pundits suggest a move to a more fan-friendly, outdoor facility will attract more spectators.

But Prince said a new stadium would be just the first step towards recovery for the struggling franchise.

"You still have to promote to the Toronto public that following the Toronto Argonauts is all right," Prince said. "It's ironic because one of the teams in my hockey league is based in Indianapolis, where they also have football and basketball teams like Toronto.

"The triple-A baseball team there doesn't do well because people in Indianapolis think of themselves as major league. The people running the triple-A baseball team are trying to figure out how to tell people it's all right to go watch triple-A baseball and doesn't detract from the nature of their city, and I think the second issue in Toronto would be teaching the fan base the Argos are part of an extraordinary league of their own."

Another step would be the Argos creating a positive fan experience at BMO Field and giving their supporters a reason to want to return.

"What you've got in Toronto, which is why I believe you need a five-year plan, is you've got to get people to come back," Prince said. "I'd expect over the last 10 years everybody has sampled it and you have a project where you've got to make it exciting. The venue helps but it doesn't end there.

"That's why I like the CFL because the game is intrinsically entertaining. I've never seen a boring CFL game, the rules mandate against it."

Full article: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/for...5349--spt.html

[Initial B]

Having to start the season with so many road games could be pretty deflating to the team. In MLS, road points are tough to come by so they have the risk of having a record that seems terrible before even playing one game at home. It could balance out later with lots of home games but it could cause low morale. I hope this all works out better than I'm picturing it.

I think they'd be happy with a 3-4-3 record (at least I would) but they probably will be 2-6-2 by the time of the opener. However they'd only have 4 away games for the rest of the season, probably during the Pan-Am games. I think they'll be on good shape come end of June. I just hope they don't swoon in July/August again.

[SoccMan2]

Are they putting an actual store inside the new BMO for merchandise like they have at the ACC?

[OgtheDim]

"That's why I like the CFL because the game is intrinsically entertaining. I've never seen a boring CFL game, the rules mandate against it."

....

Somebody didn't watch much of this past CFL season. Defence ruled.

[jazzy]

The hard truth is that it might be time for either the Argos to leave the metro Toronto area, or for the CFL to run the team for a while, until another owner comes along. If the CFL considers having a Toronto team to be so important, it may be time for them to step up - though I'd love to see how the other, profitable teams react to that.

The Argos have had two previous opportunities to get in on a joint stadium deal, and they opted not to plan for the long term, to toil away at the Rogers Centre instead. Now the Jays are kicking them out, and they are flailing around with no plan. They've made this bed for themselves, and now they can lie in it.

^yes !.....................can't help feel Argos are looking for everyone else to pay their way......tired of it , they had better not bring us down with them !.......ruining the field, ruining the environment for the true supporters.......I am not convinced that this won't happen ..........A knowledgeable caring team owner would never let this happen . If it does then it has to be proof that TFC is NOT a true priority , simply secondary to shareholders profits and equity . Soccer in the long run WILL be successful , but on it's own . Sharing with the Argos will be a challenge hopefully not lethal .

[jazzy]

I think the watch out for all of us as parents/players is that soccer training for those at a competitive level is starting to look at lot like hockey on the personal budget spreadsheet.

The new OPDL in Ontario has 10 month, 3/4 days a week training in supposedly structured, coach certified training environments. Fees, not including travel-hotel for the season range from $3,500 to over $5,000 per player depending on the club.

OPDL is the OSA's elite league. The pathway to Provincial and National teams.

I agree with you Kaz on the general cost of entry but soccer isn't as cheap as it we tend to think it is for those that are serious out it. And unlike many soccer hotbeds around the world, kids don't play "street soccer" so development will usually involve a formal program.

this is a valid point ,...shows we need to protect our public playing fields making them accessible to all , for 'street' games . Ironically, organized sports are killing the future stability and growth of the actual sport .

[Kaz]

I agree with you Kaz on the general cost of entry but soccer isn't as cheap as it we tend to think it is for those that are serious out it. And unlike many soccer hotbeds around the world, kids don't play "street soccer" so development will usually involve a formal program.

I agree like any sport there is a cost when you get to the upper levels... but to just get on the ice to find out if you have what it takes to think about shelling out cash for the pro path training... you have to shell out at least 500 just in equipment.. more realistically over $1000... and you'll have to shell it out several times as the kid grows. And if you want to tend Goal in Hockey those numbers double. Equipment cost between 12-16 could easily hit $5000+ opposed to $500/1000 for Soccer.

Once you start looking to train to get to National Team things change and start to even out, but in these economic times fewer parents can shell out the equipment costs. Heck in the 80s I think that is the reason I never was pushed towards Hockey.

[Shakes McQueen]

All well and good except we know that our TFC operators have extended a lease deal to them. They have done the diligence. Considered the impact. And decided to move forward with a legal offer.

As will happen, terms will be negotiated. Sides will consider accepting or walking away. At the end of the day, there is a business case that motivated the lease offer and that will likely result in the successful (or unsuccessful if you are a fan of soccer specific stadiums) conclusion of this business transaction.

If I wasn't a TFC fan, the BMO deal would make complete sense to me as a Toronto resident, and as a taxpayer. You see a single-tenant, city-owned stadium on prime downtown land, and another Toronto team in need of a new home, that draws crowd sizes almost identical to BMO's capacity.

We are hoping that MLSE will defend our interests (and their own), by preserving the soccer experience for their paying soccer fans, but for anyone else, I completely understand why the Argos-BMO talk won't die.