Bmo Field Expansion

[Pookie]

What is the insinuation here- Just that those bodies are considering funding for reno or doing so because the Argos may be involved?

The insinuation is that the project is moving ahead with all sides in line.

MLSE needs $10M to satisfy the Phase 3 condition to expand to 40,000 seats and make it Grey Cup/CFL ready and wants it to come from the government.

Feds and Province have said that they don't fund stadiums. People falsely assume that means the deal is dead.

In fact, what is going on behind the scenes is semantics.

Leiweke says they aren't looking at the governments to fund the stadium, simply looking at "events"

Ottawa says it will not provide funding for sports stadiums. Leiweke countered that he is asking instead for a $10 million contribution to the “big events” the expanded stadium could host, tourist draws such as the Winter Classic, Grey Cup and MLS All-Star Game."

Provinces and Feds never gave money to Argos but they did give it to events (Ministry of Culture (Federal), Ministry of Tourism (Ontario)) in the past, including the FIFA U20.

The response in writing from the Ministry of Tourism indicates that they are considering the request and that they are open to exploring ways that will enhance Ontario's profile as a premier destination for sporting events.

Basically, written confirmation from a public official that the plans are alive and well. The semantics are lining up well on all sides.

And the Argos/MLSE practice facility is further confirmation that the Argos have no plans to fold any time soon.

[Pookie]

^ sorry $20M needed

[Canary10]

The insinuation is that the project is moving ahead with all sides in line.

MLSE needs $10M to satisfy the Phase 3 condition to expand to 40,000 seats and make it Grey Cup/CFL ready and wants it to come from the government.

Feds and Province have said that they don't fund stadiums. People falsely assume that means the deal is dead.

In fact, what is going on behind the scenes is semantics.

Leiweke says they aren't looking at the governments to fund the stadium, simply looking at "events"

Ottawa says it will not provide funding for sports stadiums. Leiweke countered that he is asking instead for a $10 million contribution to the “big events” the expanded stadium could host, tourist draws such as the Winter Classic, Grey Cup and MLS All-Star Game."

Provinces and Feds never gave money to Argos but they did give it to events (Ministry of Culture (Federal), Ministry of Tourism (Ontario)) in the past, including the FIFA U20.

The response in writing from the Ministry of Tourism indicates that they are considering the request and that they are open to exploring ways that will enhance Ontario's profile as a premier destination for sporting events.

Basically, written confirmation from a public official that the plans are alive and well. The semantics are lining up well on all sides.

And the Argos/MLSE practice facility is further confirmation that the Argos have no plans to fold any time soon.

Ontario had already committed their $10 million prior to the election. The federal portion is what was stalling and/or stopping the Argos part of the plan. Unless something has since changed, anything the Ontario Tourism ministry chips in would be on top of Ontario's already stated contribution. I don't think this changes anything, the feds still need to come to the table. If it was a federal ministry making these statements then it would be notable.

[Pookie]

Ontario had already committed their $10 million prior to the election. The federal portion is what was stalling and/or stopping the Argos part of the plan. Unless something has since changed, anything the Ontario Tourism ministry chips in would be on top of Ontario's already stated contribution. I don't think this changes anything, the feds still need to come to the table. If it was a federal ministry making these statements then it would be notable.

If Funds were already committed this statement indicates there is ongoing consideration for different funds.

We haven't heard from the Ministry of Culture yet. We heard from them on the Grey Cup.

[Canary10]

If Funds were already committed this statement indicates there is ongoing consideration for different funds.

We haven't heard from the Ministry of Culture yet. We heard from them on the Grey Cup.

I guess if they can get enough "event" funding it might change the equation on the infrastructure money needed on the build.

[Fort York Redcoat]

The insinuation is that the project is moving ahead with all sides in line.

MLSE needs $10M to satisfy the Phase 3 condition to expand to 40,000 seats and make it Grey Cup/CFL ready and wants it to come from the government.

Feds and Province have said that they don't fund stadiums. People falsely assume that means the deal is dead.

In fact, what is going on behind the scenes is semantics.

Leiweke says they aren't looking at the governments to fund the stadium, simply looking at "events"

Ottawa says it will not provide funding for sports stadiums. Leiweke countered that he is asking instead for a $10 million contribution to the “big events” the expanded stadium could host, tourist draws such as the Winter Classic, Grey Cup and MLS All-Star Game."

Provinces and Feds never gave money to Argos but they did give it to events (Ministry of Culture (Federal), Ministry of Tourism (Ontario)) in the past, including the FIFA U20.

The response in writing from the Ministry of Tourism indicates that they are considering the request and that they are open to exploring ways that will enhance Ontario's profile as a premier destination for sporting events.

Basically, written confirmation from a public official that the plans are alive and well. The semantics are lining up well on all sides.

And the Argos/MLSE practice facility is further confirmation that the Argos have no plans to fold any time soon.

^ sorry $20M needed

To summarize further

The powers that be need to say "events" instead of Argos and it's Renovation "Open Sesame"?

My dear. I hope they aren't doing this dance for sports fans benefit. They are pissing us off and I doubt they will be fooling any voters with cultural donations on this.

Greasing the political machine...

[Haddy]

Funny you mention that because CFL only got $5 million instead of $12 million they originally asked for. However, 100th Grey Cup was one time thing and even then, there was a lot of criticism over funding Grey Cup especially after CFL/Argos made $10 million while getting $9.5 million from Federal and Provincial government.

Also if you look around CFL, all new stadiums outside Hamilton didn't get any Federal funding at all.

The Winter Classic for a Leafs centennial is certainly on par with the Grey Cup. Some type of deal isn't out of the question.

The newer stadiums haven't been built specifically for any events. BC Place got a major renovation with Olympic money.....money ultimately supplied by.....

[Red81]

A song to be sung by the last Argo fan in T.O...

No one in Toronto cares, we're spent, we're spent
More than a century and we still rent, still rent
There's no-one here, it's plain to see
Nobody gives a damn but me
'Cause no one else cares where the Argos went.

(to the same tune used for The Bounce)

How many soccer franchises have folded in toronto over the past 40 years. I've lost count its been so many.
If TL hadn't stepped in and gave a sh*t, convince MLSE board to give a shi*t invest in Defoe and Braley, we would be sitting here with a sea of red seats with only the die hards on this great site going to games, in last place with montreal and TFC would have been the next one to go down.

Stop raining on other peoples parade.
TFC and TFC supporters would give anything with the Argos viewership and interest level. They get 700,000 a game to watch each game regular season game and 2million for playoff games. Unfortunately, its seems the only people watching TFC games on TV are me and the other great supporters on this site. Argo fans watch on TV because their fans don't want to go to that sh*thole of stadium downtown and have told their ownership that until you get a good stadium we are not going. TFC supporters did the same in past seasons ticket prices and player acquisitions. Montreal Impact supporters walked out on their club this year. Would TFC supporters be doing the same if we had to play in the sh*thole stadium. The CCL games were horrible to watch.


Your negativity is moving them closer to BMO not further away.

[Pookie]

To summarize further

The powers that be need to say "events" instead of Argos and it's Renovation "Open Sesame"?

My dear. I hope they aren't doing this dance for sports fans benefit. They are pissing us off and I doubt they will be fooling any voters with cultural donations on this.

Greasing the political machine...

It really is sad the way it works.

I am 100% against corporate welfare. When you hear politicians come out and say we won't fund sports teams, I nod and say yep.

Then they backdoor it based on an "event" or some event of cultural significance. Our government won't fund sports teams they say. People applaud. In the end, it's still our money going to billion dollar companies that don't need it.

[reggie]

How many soccer franchises have folded in toronto over the past 40 years. I've lost count its been so many.
If TL hadn't stepped in and gave a sh*t, convince MLSE board to give a shi*t invest in Defoe and Braley, we would be sitting here with a sea of red seats with only the die hards on this great site going to games, in last place with montreal and TFC would have been the next one to go down.

Stop raining on other peoples parade.
TFC and TFC supporters would give anything with the Argos viewership and interest level. They get 700,000 a game to watch each game regular season game and 2million for playoff games. Unfortunately, its seems the only people watching TFC games on TV are me and the other great supporters on this site. Argo fans watch on TV because their fans don't want to go to that sh*thole of stadium downtown and have told their ownership that until you get a good stadium we are not going. TFC supporters did the same in past seasons ticket prices and player acquisitions. Montreal Impact supporters walked out on their club this year. Would TFC supporters be doing the same if we had to play in the sh*thole stadium. The CCL games were horrible to watch.


Your negativity is moving them closer to BMO not further away.

why are you on here...the argos and the cfl are bush league,the retread QB league,all 9 qbs have almost played on every team,they have not had a star since the rocket,the only reason the CFL is still alive is because of sask,edm,win,cal,because they nothing to do in the summer.sure TFC ratings are low now,we have only been around 7 yrs not 100...so chill my friend

[glaze]

The whole issue is a mess. There is no good in debating Argos fans vs. TFC fans, etc.
The Argos have a large reach and an entrenched position in this city. If they were playing in BMO right now they would likely have little problem attracting crowds that are on-par with ours.
The problem is Canada for some reason lacks any kind of spirited sports owner who will actually build a club and a stadium without crying to the government for money.
I went to school in Ottawa in the pre-Melnyk days when the Sens owner was asking for cash every single year. It was ridiculous.
Add to that the complications that come when you bring in other stakeholders. Just look at the Hamilton stadium fiasco.
Right now Edmonton and Quebec City want a new hockey arenas, and Regina is planning a new football stadium. Winnipeg's opened last year, Hamilton was gifted theirs in the Pan Am plan (why not just use BMO as the soccer venue?).
If MLSE didn't see a value in the Argos sharing their home, then they would have either maintained the stadium as-is, or upgraded it with their own money.
As such, if anything we should be blaming club management for this.
Or blame the system in which the Argos haven't had respectable ownership since the early 80s.
Argo fans aren't the problem here.

[Redcoe15]

Just move the Argos to London and call them the Beefeaters...

[Mulder]

why are you on here...the argos and the cfl are bush league,the retread QB league,all 9 qbs have almost played on every team,they have not had a star since the rocket,the only reason the CFL is still alive is because of sask,edm,win,cal,because they nothing to do in the summer.sure TFC ratings are low now,we have only been around 7 yrs not 100...so chill my friend

You should educate yourself. Not have a star since the Rocket? Pinball? One doesn't have to look hard to see that more and more players after playing a season in the CFL go down and make an impact right away in the other league.

All 9 QB's played on almost every team?
Beside 2 opening day starters (Henry Burris & Kevin Glenn) All the other QB's played for a maximum of 2 teams. I'm going to educate you

Montreal - Tory Smith - First team
Ottawa - Henry Burris - 4th team (not almost every team)
Toronto - Ricky Ray - 2nd team acquired in a trade with Edmonton
Hamilton - Zach Collaros - 2nd team (left Toronto in Free agency because he would never start with Ricky Ray #1)
Winnipeg - Drew Willy - 2nd team (Left Sask because he knew he would be starter in Winnipeg)
Sask - Darian Durant - 1st Team
Calgary - Bo Levi Mitchell - 1st Team
Edmonton - Mike Reilly - 2nd team (Left B.C. for a chance at starting in Edmonton)
B.C. - Kevin Glenn - Technically 7th team, never played a game for 2 of them, Ottawa & Toronto. The ONLY reason why he is starting is because Travis Lulay - 1st team - is still recovering from shoulder surgery.

So the real question is, do you always comment on things you know nothing about? Why do you hate something you clearly know nothing about? That's pretty ignorant.

[Fort York Redcoat]

It really is sad the way it works.

I am 100% against corporate welfare. When you hear politicians come out and say we won't fund sports teams, I nod and say yep.

Then they backdoor it based on an "event" or some event of cultural significance. Our government won't fund sports teams they say. People applaud. In the end, it's still our money going to billion dollar companies that don't need it.

Okay thanks. Not that it makes me feel any better knowing but at least I can fathom why we won't have quick answers on this issue now. House of Cards Canada Style.

[shakes head]

[Fort York Redcoat]

Your negativity is moving them closer to BMO not further away.

How so?

This is the place where people can vent their frustration on this topic if need be. If you're sensitive to the Argos plight feel free to say so. There are other fans of both the Argos and TFC on here but this situation is clearly going to be bias towards the haves (the reds) vs the have nots(the double blue). If you feel the need for pro Argos positivity...

we have a thread for that.

[Fort York Redcoat]

You should educate yourself. Not have a star since the Rocket? Pinball? One doesn't have to look hard to see that more and more players after playing a season in the CFL go down and make an impact right away in the other league.

All 9 QB's played on almost every team?
Beside 2 opening day starters (Henry Burris & Kevin Glenn) All the other QB's played for a maximum of 2 teams. I'm going to educate you

Montreal - Tory Smith - First team
Ottawa - Henry Burris - 4th team (not almost every team)
Toronto - Ricky Ray - 2nd team acquired in a trade with Edmonton
Hamilton - Zach Collaros - 2nd team (left Toronto in Free agency because he would never start with Ricky Ray #1)
Winnipeg - Drew Willy - 2nd team (Left Sask because he knew he would be starter in Winnipeg)
Sask - Darian Durant - 1st Team
Calgary - Bo Levi Mitchell - 1st Team
Edmonton - Mike Reilly - 2nd team (Left B.C. for a chance at starting in Edmonton)
B.C. - Kevin Glenn - Technically 7th team, never played a game for 2 of them, Ottawa & Toronto. The ONLY reason why he is starting is because Travis Lulay - 1st team - is still recovering from shoulder surgery.

So the real question is, do you always comment on things you know nothing about? Why do you hate something you clearly know nothing about? That's pretty ignorant.

Mulder, your CFL knowledge is welcome. Your personal comments and name calling are not.

It's pretty spelled out, reasons why people don't like this situation. You know this so let's keep things civil before we talk of ignorance.

[Fort York Redcoat]

why are you on here...the argos and the cfl are bush league,the retread QB league,all 9 qbs have almost played on every team,they have not had a star since the rocket,the only reason the CFL is still alive is because of sask,edm,win,cal,because they nothing to do in the summer.sure TFC ratings are low now,we have only been around 7 yrs not 100...so chill my friend

As I stated above, please refrain from attacking the personal. There are other Toronto fans of both teams on here and there's no reason why we all can't talk about this situation with civility.

[reggie]

You should educate yourself. Not have a star since the Rocket? Pinball? One doesn't have to look hard to see that more and more players after playing a season in the CFL go down and make an impact right away in the other league.

All 9 QB's played on almost every team?
Beside 2 opening day starters (Henry Burris & Kevin Glenn) All the other QB's played for a maximum of 2 teams. I'm going to educate you

Montreal - Tory Smith - First team
Ottawa - Henry Burris - 4th team (not almost every team)
Toronto - Ricky Ray - 2nd team acquired in a trade with Edmonton
Hamilton - Zach Collaros - 2nd team (left Toronto in Free agency because he would never start with Ricky Ray #1)
Winnipeg - Drew Willy - 2nd team (Left Sask because he knew he would be starter in Winnipeg)
Sask - Darian Durant - 1st Team
Calgary - Bo Levi Mitchell - 1st Team
Edmonton - Mike Reilly - 2nd team (Left B.C. for a chance at starting in Edmonton)
B.C. - Kevin Glenn - Technically 7th team, never played a game for 2 of them, Ottawa & Toronto. The ONLY reason why he is starting is because Travis Lulay - 1st team - is still recovering from shoulder surgery.

So the real question is, do you always comment on things you know nothing about? Why do you hate something you clearly know nothing about? That's pretty ignorant.

and clearly I don't care...this is a TFC site,im not on argos site talking crap..

[reggie]

As I stated above, please refrain from attacking the personal. There are other Toronto fans of both teams on here and there's no reason why we all can't talk about this situation with civility.

why don't you worry about the argo trolls on here...last time I checked this is a TFC site..

[Mulder]

Mulder, your CFL knowledge is welcome. Your personal comments and name calling are not.

It's pretty spelled out, reasons why people don't like this situation. You know this so let's keep things civil before we talk of ignorance.

Thanks for your comment, and I understand. My point still stands that people shouldn't comment on things they clearly know nothing about.

[reggie]

btw Mulder...I was a season ticket holder for the argos in their hay day for 10 yrs...the JOE T,Jim Stillwagon,eric allen era great times.

[SoccMan2]

I have posted the same post probably over 10 times over the years regarding this issue and I don't care I will post it again. I have been around a long time, turning 50 this year, born and raised in Toronto. I have been a soccer fan since I can remember, I recall going to old varsity stadium to watch the Toronto Metros play pro soccer in the old North American Soccer League way back in the early 1970's and have followed every pro soccer team Toronto has ever had, attending games and watching on TV right to the present as a season ticket holder with TFC since day one. I have lived with all the soccer bashing from media and the general public ever since I can remember. Therefore, this is why I don't give a rats ass if the Argos fold, die or whatever. I don't care or have any sympathy for the fact that they will not have a home once the Jays throw them out. I don't want them at BMO field, go away and get your own damn stadium or just fold. Just the fact that they are now moving to a practice facility at Downsview Park and sharing office space in the TFC's offices is something I'm finding difficult to accept. In the end though we all know that the Argos will be moving to BMO no matter if right now the talks are not going good. What I can't understand that a city like Toronto which calls itself a World Class city can't find a way to have a dedicated stadium for soccer and one for CFL Football, go to a real world class city like London in the UK and you have probably over 10 decent size stadiums just for soccer, but here in Toronto we have to share one stadium for two different sports what a joke! Yes I know that some of these stadiums even within London have other sports that also are played there,however, the fact that London can have so many decent sized stadiums and here in Toronto we barely have 3 and can't seem to be able to build another one for a CFL team is a joke for a city the size of Toronto.

[Pookie]

Fundamentally, I agree with you. Each team should be self sufficient.

But BMO was built with corporate welfare and it isn't the property of TFC. TFC has a usage agreement for it and when they entered that usage agreement, the option to move the Argos in was always there.

It would be like the government putting up assisted housing apartments and then renting out a unit. Then the renter in that unit complaining about having to have a neighbour beside them. Worse, the complaining renter is actually wealthy and could buy their own unit if they wanted.

If MLSE wants to build their own soccer specific stadium with their own funds, go for it. But they don't. They want hand outs. So, hand outs have conditions.

I think we all need to step back and gain perspective. Last year at this time, TFC wasn't exactly a hot ticket. This coming off roll back pricing. Is it really fair to ask MLSE to commit its own funds to a soccer only facility at the very early stages of this club's existence?

Going this route, fans will get a better venue… with adequate washrooms and a roof. Sure it's shared but the expense to build a soccer only one really isn't justified. Expansion should also keep ticket prices in check. That's a pretty big gain for a club so young.

[Fort York Redcoat]

why don't you worry about the argo trolls on here...last time I checked this is a TFC site..

I'll remind you again that there are people here that follow and love both teams and don't see why one has to suffer for the other. While TFC has priority here every user has a the right to be treated with respect.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Thanks for your comment, and I understand. My point still stands that people shouldn't comment on things they clearly know nothing about.

Think on that. This is a forum for discussion. If people didn't comment on things they weren't experts on think how much longer the learning curve would be. You don't like someone's opinion on your favourite league and you told them where they got it wrong. If it wasn't brought up that confusion would still be there.

So now that we know more about the CFL we need to get it back to topic. It's about the unwanted Argos still moving in, perhaps.

[Mulder]

Think on that. This is a forum for discussion. If people didn't comment on things they weren't experts on think how much longer the learning curve would be. You don't like someone's opinion on your favourite league and you told them where they got it wrong. If it wasn't brought up that confusion would still be there.

So now that we know more about the CFL we need to get it back to topic. It's about the unwanted Argos still moving in, perhaps.

Sorry, don't misconstrue what I say. I never said you needed to be an expert comment.
I said that if you don't know anything you shouldn't comment. Assuming that the 9 starting QB's started for almost all the teams was a dumb comment any way you slice it. Hate the cfl or not.

That's all I'm going to say about it

[Kaz]

I have posted the same post probably over 10 times over the years regarding this issue and I don't care I will post it again. I have been around a long time, turning 50 this year, born and raised in Toronto. I have been a soccer fan since I can remember, I recall going to old varsity stadium to watch the Toronto Metros play pro soccer in the old North American Soccer League way back in the early 1970's and have followed every pro soccer team Toronto has ever had, attending games and watching on TV right to the present as a season ticket holder with TFC since day one. I have lived with all the soccer bashing from media and the general public ever since I can remember. Therefore, this is why I don't give a rats ass if the Argos fold, die or whatever. I don't care or have any sympathy for the fact that they will not have a home once the Jays throw them out. I don't want them at BMO field, go away and get your own damn stadium or just fold. Just the fact that they are now moving to a practice facility at Downsview Park and sharing office space in the TFC's offices is something I'm finding difficult to accept. In the end though we all know that the Argos will be moving to BMO no matter if right now the talks are not going good. What I can't understand that a city like Toronto which calls itself a World Class city can't find a way to have a dedicated stadium for soccer and one for CFL Football, go to a real world class city like London in the UK and you have probably over 10 decent size stadiums just for soccer, but here in Toronto we have to share one stadium for two different sports what a joke! Yes I know that some of these stadiums even within London have other sports that also are played there,however, the fact that London can have so many decent sized stadiums and here in Toronto we barely have 3 and can't seem to be able to build another one for a CFL team is a joke for a city the size of Toronto.

The issue with Toronto is that it isn't a city, it is a collection of communities that want little or nothing to do with anything out side their community, and then a skin of metropolitan people that move between each community taking in the best of them all. The Metro people are too few in numbers to support much of anything. Worse much of the 30-40 communities want nothing to do with the Metro population. It's the reason a Cricket Stadium with 30,000 can be talked about, but the Argos can't get enough people out regularly to get their own stadium. Toronto is failed Multiculturalism, worse the GTA is starting to fall into Cultural enclaves.

The Argos last Season had attendance of about 21,000 with two games at above the current capacity of BMO. (Ti-Cats) So BMO field without endzone seats at 25,000 actually works well for them, the Temporary seating comes out for the Ti-Cats games and it fits.

As long as the Argo's stay a Secondary Tenant it is an ideal situation from them, and really shouldn't effect TFC at all. 9 Home games and they can be scheduled to happen after a TFC home game with an away game after. Giving the grass time to grow and there should rarely ever be even a hint of a CFL line on the pitch. If the Argos can sell out BMO ever came for a few years maybe they will get their own stadium. with 7-9 million people in the GTA and average attendance for a 100 year old franchise of 21,000 after a grey cup win, and only 9-10 events a year... do you think they are going to build a new stadium without nearly double those attendance numbers? It's a City owned stadium, and you have an oddly Pro Argo Council.

[mr k]

why are you on here...the argos and the cfl are bush league,the retread QB league,all 9 qbs have almost played on every team,they have not had a star since the rocket,the only reason the CFL is still alive is because of sask,edm,win,cal,because they nothing to do in the summer.sure TFC ratings are low now,we have only been around 7 yrs not 100...so chill my friend

CFL on espn gets higher ratings than MLS. It takes about 7 TFC or Whitecaps matches to equal a low rated CFL game on tsn. It is a top 10 league in the world in terms of average attendance. TSN just reupped with a $40 million deal. If that is bush league, what is MLS?

[reggie]

CFL on espn gets higher ratings than MLS. It takes about 7 TFC or Whitecaps matches to equal a low rated CFL game on tsn. It is a top 10 league in the world in terms of average attendance. TSN just reupped with a $40 million deal. If that is bush league, what is MLS?

yr right...the cfl is the 2nd best football league in the world...the argos have been in the league for 100 yrs and they still don't have a home....now that's bush league.

[Qman]

back on topic.

If i read the documentation looks like the east stands can only be expanded 95ft outwards.
Hopefully that means the second deck will be steep and "right on top" of the action.