Bmo Field Expansion

[Still Kicking]

Folks who see a Toronto NFL future always fail to understand that it is not a gate driven league - it is a television league. There is no other league like it in the world.
Canadian TV rights for NFL games = 10-15 million a year
Combined ABC/ESPN, CBS, Fox, NBC payment to NFL for rights = Billions
NFL back in the Rozelle days decided that NFL tv revenue would always be split evenly no matter the size of the market. There is going to be huge American tv opposition to a Toronto team, the NFL owners are not going to be keen to give a tv share to a franchise shift that will not improve ratings.
Niagara Region stadium with a Canadian ownership minority might be the closest MLSE gets to NFL participation.
I was in high school when Johnny Bassett offered 1 million each to Csonka, Kickk and Warfield to play for the Toronto Northmen. If I had started holding my breath for American football in TO back then, I would have expired decades ago...

[Pookie]

My point, still not addressed, is that the NFL - BECAUSE it is already so popular -- has little room to grow as far as Canadian TV audiences are concerned. Therefore, to argue that expansion into Canada can somehow be justified because it creats a new audience is fallacious. Furthermore, the presence of an NFL team in Toronto will not endear the NFL to gridiron fans in other parts of Canada (where you rightly point out the CFL is very popular) -- quite the opposite.

I'll address it.

I think you are right. For revenue to grow the TV audience would have to demonstrate significant incremental growth beyond what it is now. I don't see it. NFL fans are already watching. Some new ones might if there was a Toronto name on it but significant enough to interest the NFL over markets like LA? Nope.

That is all.

[East York]

Folks who see a Toronto NFL future always fail to understand that it is not a gate driven league - it is a television league. There is no other league like it in the world.
Canadian TV rights for NFL games = 10-15 million a year
Combined ABC/ESPN, CBS, Fox, NBC payment to NFL for rights = Billions
NFL back in the Rozelle days decided that NFL tv revenue would always be split evenly no matter the size of the market. There is going to be huge American tv opposition to a Toronto team, the NFL owners are not going to be keen to give a tv share to a franchise shift that will not improve ratings.
Niagara Region stadium with a Canadian ownership minority might be the closest MLSE gets to NFL participation.
I was in high school when Johnny Bassett offered 1 million each to Csonka, Kickk and Warfield to play for the Toronto Northmen. If I had started holding my breath for American football in TO back then, I would have expired decades ago...

i just started going to TFC games back in 2010. I have Leaf season tickets and Argo season tickets. I go to 3 to 4 Bills games a year and hit the Lions at least once a year for a game. I agree with what you say above, that I made this my first post. The NFL is all about TV money and Toronto brings next to nothing to the table in this regards. Bob McCown from the fan, did an outstanding job explaining why a NFL team in Toronto brings more problems to the NFL then benefits. Also the NFL is a very political league with lots of political power and no seating US Governor is going to allow their team to be moved to this Socialist utopia called Canada. I believe under the right ownership a CFL team could co exist with a NFL team in Toronto. However the NFL is NEVER coming to Toronto. Also as some people have already mentioned, you can't underestimate the respect and love, that fans have for the CFL and yes, there is still a lot of them in Southern ONT. If the Argos do come to play in a revamped BMO, I would love to see TFC and Argo fans come together to support each other's clubs. I"m so tried of the Corporate Fan base of the Leafs. I can't wait to have a roof at BMO, plus I think if they do it right, you will not even be able to tell the Argos play at BMO during a TFC game

[Blizzard]

i just started going to TFC games back in 2010. I have Leaf season tickets and Argo season tickets. I go to 3 to 4 Bills games a year and hit the Lions at least once a year for a game. I agree with what you say above, that I made this my first post. The NFL is all about TV money and Toronto brings next to nothing to the table in this regards. Bob McCown from the fan, did an outstanding job explaining why a NFL team in Toronto brings more problems to the NFL then benefits. Also the NFL is a very political league with lots of political power and no seating US Governor is going to allow their team to be moved to this Socialist utopia called Canada. I believe under the right ownership a CFL team could co exist with a NFL team in Toronto. However the NFL is NEVER coming to Toronto. Also as some people have already mentioned, you can't underestimate the respect and love, that fans have for the CFL and yes, there is still a lot of them in Southern ONT. If the Argos do come to play in a revamped BMO, I would love to see TFC and Argo fans come together to support each other's clubs. I"m so tried of the Corporate Fan base of the Leafs. I can't wait to have a roof at BMO, plus I think if they do it right, you will not even be able to tell the Argos play at BMO during a TFC game

.... except for the field!

I'm an Argos supporter too and I agree with everything you've said here although you did omit any reference to the field and that, for me, is the ultimate problem.

[TFC07]

Tim Leiweke was on SN 590 couple of minutes ago, he said they're making progress with getting funds from provincial and federal government to rebuild BMO field. He said talks with NHL is going better this week than last week regarding hosting Winter Classic game at BMO field for Maple Leafs. Also, he also said MLSE isn't even thinking about Argos until they get funds first, then they (MLSE BOD) will either buy Argos or lease BMO to Argos. But it doesn't sound like MLSE really cares about Argos at all based on TL tone of voice.

[Pookie]

Also, he also said MLSE isn't even thinking about Argos until they get funds first, then they (MLSE BOD) will either buy Argos or lease BMO to Argos.

I think a few pages back I mentioned this exact scenario based on the current Argos Clause.

Hold off buying, get the hand out and save some money they otherwise would have paid if they owned them right now.

[Bellzy]

... sure sounded like TL checked out on MLSE already as McCown and Brunt suggested. Strange considering today's puckhead announcement. They both figured he'd be gone on a new venture sooner than later.

[OgtheDim]

... sure sounded like TL checked out on MLSE already as McCown and Brunt suggested. Strange considering today's puckhead announcement. They both figured he'd be gone on a new venture sooner than later.

Meh...they are riffing off of Cox's Star article on the weekend.

TL is not a turn around CEO. He's a builder. And that takes a lot more time then one year.

Puckhead media don't get that running MLSE succesfully requires a few more things then getting the Leaf President of your choice in place. The media in this town is so Leafs focused, they are oblivious to the magnitude of the corporate side of things.

[TFC07]

... sure sounded like TL checked out on MLSE already as McCown and Brunt suggested. Strange considering today's puckhead announcement. They both figured he'd be gone on a new venture sooner than later.

Well, you can thank drama going on with Rogers & Bell and Maple Leaf fans being bitter how TL hasn't been more proactive with Leafs like TFC & Raptors.

[OgtheDim]

Well, you can thank drama going on with Rogers & Bell and Maple Leaf fans are bitter how TL hasn't been more proactive with Leafs like TFC & Raptors.

If TL had come in after last year's "heroic" Leaf playoff effort and changed things, the people in the media in this town would have had his head. He's earned the right to change Leafs things with his oversight of the turnaround of TFC and the Raptors and the March/April collapse. Anybody ticked at TL for not doing things before now with the Leafs has ADD, or an agenda.

Speaking of agendas, I also get the feeling Tannenbaum is not all that happy with the status quo and feeding people in the media stuff to try to get back in some semblance of control- he was the obvious source on the "MLSE is buying the Argos" story back in December. He wants the Argos as a playtoy and possible way into the NFL while Rogers and Bell don't care about the Argos as they don't get any increased revenues from that product (TSN owns all the media rights). More importantly, Tannenbaum hates not being able to play Rogers off against Bell and vice versa - he is less in charge then he used to be with the OTPP.

[TFC07]

If TL had come in after last year's "heroic" Leaf playoff effort and changed things, the people in the media in this town would have had his head. He's earned the right to change Leafs things with his oversight of the turnaround of TFC and the Raptors and the March/April collapse. Anybody ticked at TL for not doing things before now with the Leafs has ADD, or an agenda.

Speaking of agendas, I also get the feeling Tannenbaum is not all that happy with the status quo and feeding people in the media stuff to try to get back in some semblance of control- he was the obvious source on the "MLSE is buying the Argos" story back in December. He wants the Argos as a playtoy and possible way into the NFL while Rogers and Bell don't care about the Argos as they don't get any increased revenues from that product (TSN owns all the media rights). More importantly, Tannenbaum hates not being able to play Rogers off against Bell and vice versa - he is less in charge then he used to be with the OTPP.

This make sense, but it doesn't take much to get Rogers and Bell to get into fight with each other especially since Rogers won NHL TV rights. Bell is most likely bitter about that than anything else.

I agree Larry T is main player of pushing Argos and NFL team idea not Rogers or Bell. I predict Larry T will buy Argos on his own if MLSE don't agree on price to buy them. But right now, I think TL is more focus on getting funds and working with NHL to get winter classic game in 2017 than anything else. Argos just afterthought for TL/MLSE (they got plenty of time to buy them since there isn't anyone else interested in them) and I wouldn't be surprised to see TL gone before Argos move into BMO field.

[billyfly]

Apparently they look forward to meeting us all at BMO soon.

[CommradePolski]

Are they going to double as TFC Cheerleaders?

[Redcoe15]

Surprise, surprise, Gary Bettman announces that the Stadium Series will stay.

So there's the Stadium Series, the Winter Classic and the Heritage Classic.

What this shows is that hockeypuckheads just luuuuuv these outdoor hockey games.

[Pint]

What this shows is that hockeypuckheads just luuuuuv these outdoor hockey games.

So much $$$ come from these games that they couldn't stop doing them even if they wanted to.

[Ivy]

Apparently they look forward to meeting us all at BMO soon.

Ali G is so damn lucky... Ggrrrrr...

[prizby]

So much $$$ come from these games that they couldn't stop doing them even if they wanted to.

way it works is whoever's home game is, the NHL buys out the 'tickets' for that game, and then has the rights (and pays the costs of running the game) to sell the 'stadium games' at whatever they want and keep it all...so yeah, they love the $$$$

[Pint]

way it works is whoever's home game is, the NHL buys out the 'tickets' for that game, and then has the rights (and pays the costs of running the game) to sell the 'stadium games' at whatever they want and keep it all...so yeah, they love the $$$$

I was just talking about HRR... don't know numbers but these games are worth millions which subsequently raises the cap. Players union would cause a stink if they cut off a large revenue stream

[OgtheDim]

Wait until the second or third time they do this in Toronto and people don't show up until half way through the first period.

[Pookie]

Wait until the second or third time they do this in Toronto and people don't show up until half way through the first period.

Or mix a little construction in with a snowmobile race and fireworks display at the lake. Maybe even schedule the Marlies game at the same time. Shut down a street car or two and there you have it.

[Pookie]

Ali G is so damn lucky... Ggrrrrr...

Ok, I'm old. Who is Ali G?

[Kaz]

Ok, I'm old. Who is Ali G?

It's one of the first characters of the idiot that does Borat or <insert borderline racists character here>



And to the main point

ya the Whole people showing up late thing is frustrating. Now i'm a special case because of issue with crowds which means I show up early, but last week I was at BMO at 2 thinking it would be busy long before the gates opened... It's amazing how few people were there, and the parade of people 10-15 minutes after kick off was just odd. So frustrating.

[Haddy]

While we continue to wait for new renderings...


It's been mentioned on more than one occasion that the BMO Field redesign resembles Anfield. Today Liverpool released renderings for their upcoming expansion to 54,000 and I have to agree with the previous comparisons. Even after Anfield grows, it'll be BMO's big brother.

Here's a link to the Anfield reno announcement for those interested: http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/late...pansion-vision

[molenshtain]

Reminds me a bit of Highbury too.

[Haddy]

Here is the latest on turf improvements at Rogers Centre: http://www.thestar.com/sports/blueja...rs_centre.html

In short, the earliest grass will be installed is the 2018 MLB season. Even if the Argos move out sooner, there are a number of hurdles the Jays have to clear.

[TFC07]

It has been a little too quiet lately. Is that a good or bad thing?

[Fort York Redcoat]

It has been a little too quiet lately. Is that a good or bad thing?

Depends if you think the entire idea is a good thing or a bad thing...

[Kaz]

It has been a little too quiet lately. Is that a good or bad thing?

Right now we have Provincial and Federal Gov't that have had other things going on.

The Death of Jim Flaherty likely caused a bit of a slow down. Then add in the Easter Holiday and Council didn't approve till late in the week so other levels of Government didn't start looking till the 7th. take 2 days for Jim's passing, 2 days for Easter. and that is only 11 business days, for something that will take no less then 15 business days.. if not 20-25. (Why it would take that long I don't know but that is my assumption)

[Lil'John]

I'm a bit concerned by the proposed designs. Love the roof, but no sighn of side walls on the stands. Look at the Anfield pics and you see vertical side walls to each stand. this helps keep in the sound and keep out the wind, and is pretty standard in the UK. I was at a Hibs-Hearts game in Scotland at New Year, and it really kept the atmosphere in and the wind (horizontal rain) out. As the Lakefront in Toronto is as windy as Edinburgh, it's a must in my view.

While we continue to wait for new renderings...


It's been mentioned on more than one occasion that the BMO Field redesign resembles Anfield. Today Liverpool released renderings for their upcoming expansion to 54,000 and I have to agree with the previous comparisons. Even after Anfield grows, it'll be BMO's big brother.

Here's a link to the Anfield reno announcement for those interested: http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/late...pansion-vision

[Haddy]

I'm a bit concerned by the proposed designs. Love the roof, but no sighn of side walls on the stands. Look at the Anfield pics and you see vertical side walls to each stand. this helps keep in the sound and keep out the wind, and is pretty standard in the UK. I was at a Hibs-Hearts game in Scotland at New Year, and it really kept the atmosphere in and the wind (horizontal rain) out. As the Lakefront in Toronto is as windy as Edinburgh, it's a must in my view.

If memory serves, the same question was mentioned to the designer at the community town hall in March. Something about better to NOT block the wind at that particular location. My guess is safety / budget.

But it's a preliminary drawing.