Bmo Field Expansion

[TFC07]

Makes no sense. It's Bell/TSN who need a solution for the Argos.

There's a theory going on that if someone wants to bring a NFL team to Toronto, then they will have first have to take care Argos since NFL needs healthy CFL for legal reasons.

Also recently there was a survey handed out to Toronto "corporate community" on possibility of Toronto NFL team (source:http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/story/?id=442603). If you start connecting the dots, then something fishy is going on here.

Right now, it doesn't make any sense for MLSE (excluding Bell of course) to buy the Argos unless there's something else going on in the background. Also if Bell is so worried about Argos then they can easily buy them and build a cheap stadium (BMO field quality) in 905 region where municipalities there wouldn't mind contributing it financially.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Larry has about as much authority to negotiate a purchase of the Argos, as I do to appoint the next King of England.

The Argos are Bell's problem/property, and they have to figure out what they can give to Rogers to get them to go along.

I have no recollection of seeing your name in print concerning the throne of England. I have seen Larry's in the same sentence as the Argos. Why is that?

[ensco]

I have no recollection of seeing your name in print concerning the throne of England. I have seen Larry's in the same sentence as the Argos. Why is that?

^haha touché

[ensco]

There's a theory going on that if someone wants to bring a NFL team to Toronto, then they will have first have to take care Argos since NFL needs healthy CFL for legal reasons.

Also recently there was a survey handed out to Toronto "corporate community" on possibility of Toronto NFL team (source:http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/story/?id=442603). If you start connecting the dots, then something fishy is going on here.

Right now, it doesn't make any sense for MLSE (excluding Bell of course) to buy the Argos unless there's something else going on in the background. Also if Bell is so worried about Argos then they can easily buy them and build a cheap stadium (BMO field quality) in 905 region where municipalities there wouldn't mind contributing it financially.

Just to put all this in one spot: I consider the NFL theory bunkum, as there isn't a reason in the world why MLSE would lay out that kind of dough on that, and there's no local billionaire who will do it. I think these vague assertions are just a misdirection play Leiweke is running, or allowing to run, because the dollars for NFL dwarf what he really wants to do, so it'll look like MLSE's "not getting much, or what they really wanted" in the endgame.

I think MLSE's only interest in buying the Argos is because it costs peanuts and it's very useful as a Trojan Horse in getting governments to provide significant dough in renovating BMO (because "everyone together" would then be solving a significant local civic sports problem in the process).

Endgame:heavily subsidized outdoor hockey palace, and a larger, winterized soccer stadium with a roof, which would enable them to someday drive Seattle-like attendance figures at BMO. It'd be worth living with turf, or whatever has to happen to the caliber of the soccer experience, to do that ... if you are a billion dollar sports conglomerate.

[Waggy]

I consider the NFL theory bunkum, as there isn't a reason in the world why MLSE would lay out that kind of dough on that, and there's no local billionaire who will do it. I think these vague assertions are just a misdirection play Leiweke is running, or allowing to run, because the dollars for NFL dwarf what he really wants to do, so it'll look like he's "not getting much, or what he really wanted" in the endgame.

I think MLSE's only interest in buying the Argos is to use it as a Trojan Horse in getting governments to provide significant dough in renovating BMO (because they would then be solving a significant local civic sports problem in the process).

I agree. Why would any billionaire want to get in a business that profited over 250 million dollars per organization last year? It's crazy talk. Billionaires don't want businesses that make money, why would they ever want the sports business that makes the most money?! Especially when they can sucker a government into paying half of their costs while giving them a huge asset in the middle of a city. It makes no sense. Next thing you'll tell me the Maple Leafs will decide to move into a basketball arena to make a little more money


edit: http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/01/news...ey-super-bowl/

"Butwhat puts football over the top in terms of profitability are the league's pricey broadcast rights deals. The $4 billion in revenue it pulls in from television deals is roughly equal to the total sales for the National Basketball Association and more than the sales of the English Premier League, the world's most lucrative soccer league.

The NFL can command so much because its games are regularly the top-rated shows on various networks. Advertisers are forking over $4 million for spots during the Super Bowl. But even regular season football games draw a large audience that tends to watch the sport live, meaning they aren't fast-forwarding through commercials. That's something marketers are willing for pay a premium for. "


"As dominant as the NFL already is financially, it says it plans to boost annual revenue to $25 billion within 15 years. Eric Grubman, executive vice president of NFL ventures and business operations, said some of that growth will come from existing revenue streams, like tickets, sponsorships and television. But it also expects to see big gains from mobile media and international revenue."

[ensco]

Next thing you'll tell me the Maple Leafs will decide to move into a basketball arena to make a little more money

In hindsight that was a massive mistake by MLSE.

The cost of jamming into that small footprint and not optimising for hockey (which would have given them bigger capacity, better experience, better sightlines, better boxes) could easily be $10-20M a year. Hundreds of millions in lost enterprise value.

Plus that merger gave us Peddie (and Anselmi).

[Fort York Redcoat]

Just to put all this in one spot: I consider the NFL theory bunkum, as there isn't a reason in the world why MLSE would lay out that kind of dough on that, and there's no local billionaire who will do it. I think these vague assertions are just a misdirection play Leiweke is running, or allowing to run, because the dollars for NFL dwarf what he really wants to do, so it'll look like MLSE's "not getting much, or what they really wanted" in the endgame.

I think MLSE's only interest in buying the Argos is because it costs peanuts and it's very useful as a Trojan Horse in getting governments to provide significant dough in renovating BMO (because "everyone together" would then be solving a significant local civic sports problem in the process).

Endgame:heavily subsidized outdoor hockey palace, and a larger, winterized soccer stadium with a roof, which would enable them to someday drive Seattle-like attendance figures at BMO. It'd be worth living with turf, or whatever has to happen to the caliber of the soccer experience, to do that ... if you are a billion dollar sports conglomerate.

...and who here isn't?

I believe you as far as their short term goals better attained from shooting for the moon (NFL) but I really don't think it something that they wouldn't push to the maximum to convince those responsible for helping funding it possible. I know you're not saying TL's aspirations have a ceiling. They just don't.

[TFC07]

This article pretty much confirms on my theory.

This is especially so at MLSE, which would love to hitch its wagon to whichever individual or individuals manage to buy Buffalo’s NFL team after its 95-year-old owner Ralph Wilson passes away.

NFL bylaws prevent corporations from owning even part of its teams but they do not prevent enterprising companies from building and running their stadiums.

Tanenbaum and Leiweke, the chairman and president of MLSE, respectively, are so eager to get involved they reassigned one of their senior executives not long ago, according to someone close to the company.

Bob Hunter, who was MLSE’s chief facilities and live entertainment officer, was put in charge of two special projects. These projects are so important to Tanenbaum and Leiweke that Justina Klein was recently brought back for a second stint at MLSE to do Hunter’s old job.

Hunter is now in charge of two things – redesigning BMO Field to accommodate both Toronto FC, MLSE’s soccer team, and the Toronto Argonauts of the CFL, who would be most affected by Hunter’s second project. And that task is to design an NFL-style stadium to accommodate the Bills. So far, we’re told, there is a design for a stadium that would cost $600-million but our informants say that won’t get much these days and the final number will be closer to $1-billion plus another $1-billion (U.S.) or so to buy the Bills, making this a $2-billion play.

The reason the Bills are expected to go for that much, aside from the inherent worth of NFL franchises, was laid out by an investment banker of our acquaintance who has handled dozens of sales of NFL, NBA, NHL and Major League Baseball clubs. He found the notion of Bon Jovi buying an NFL club amusing and said simply that when Wilson dies his heirs will hold an auction and sell to the highest bidder.

Wilson’s family has no interest in owning the Bills because it will be on the hook for many millions in estate taxes. To keep the team, pay the taxes and then run it would require big loans, so the course will be to maximize the price on the Bills, pay the taxes and keep the hundreds of millions left over.

That takes this deal out of the league of Bon Jovi, who is undoubtedly lobbying hard for a team and has some interesting friends aside from Tanenbaum and Leiweke, such as New England Patriots owner

Robert Kraft. But NFL bylaws say the majority owner has to have at least 30 per cent of the equity in the franchise. Since Bon Jovi’s net worth is estimated to be around $300-million (U.S.), this means writing a cheque for the equal of his net worth is not possible. Hence Bon Jovi’s chumminess with Tanenbaum and Leiweke, whose daughter Francesca is reported to be working for the rock star in his quest.


However, those who know all the characters in this drama think the real player in this could be Edward Rogers, whose family is behind Rogers Communications Inc., which is the co-majority owner of MLSE along with BCE Inc. Rogers Communications has been chasing an NFL team for years with the help of Tanenbaum, who owns the other 25 per cent of MLSE.

The Rogers family’s net worth is estimated at $6.41-billion, which dwarfs even Tanenbaum and makes Bon Jovi a small player. Some insiders see Edward Rogers, 44, emerging as the majority owner in a bid with Tanenbaum and Bon Jovi, who is certainly handy as a front man for now, taking minority stakes. Indeed, there are already whispers of friction among the trio over just who will be the major player.

But many problems lie ahead, including whether or not the NFL will allow the new owners to move the Bills to Toronto or maintain a connection with Buffalo.

There is also the matter of the CFL and the Argos. It looks as though MLSE thinks the NFL will insist a condition of any sale is to look after the Argos, not drive them off, which is why Hunter is in charge of spending as much as $50-million to renovate BMO Field. That should fend off any nasty anti-trust suits.

Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle15581107/

[glaze]

If the NFL ever came here, i think a renovated Dome would be the best bet. Put the Jays in a baseball only stadium. Completely redo the lower bowl of the dome, by digging a bit deeper and brining the lower bowl seats in on a steeper angle closer to the field. The upper deck sightlines for football really aren't that bad.
Of course the NFL experience would still suck, as Toronto/Ontario wont permit tailgating.
I just don't see an owner shelling out 1 billion to build an nfl stadium, nor do I see the city or government doing it.
Financially for the dates, it just makes no sense. And you can't exactly use it for other purposes.

Finding an owner won;t be a problem. Heck the Montreal Canadiens were owned by an American.
If the league decides they want a team here, and the levels of government cooperate, it will happen. But it will be years.

As for the Argos.......

[Beach_Red]

This article pretty much confirms on my theory.

Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle15581107/

So, we're waiting for a funeral and then an auction in Buffalo. Toronto and LA both looking for teams, the bidding could go pretty high. I can't imagine how much our cable and cell phone rates will be if MLSE get it....

[Fort York Redcoat]

So, we're waiting for a funeral and then an auction in Buffalo. Toronto and LA both looking for teams, the bidding could go pretty high. I can't imagine how much our cable and cell phone rates will be if MLSE get it....

teksavvy convo is somewhere around here.

[Still Kicking]

LA is looking for multiple teams.
I will find my links - all LA Times
The Rams owner has bought land by the racetrack and the old Forum. possibly just a bluff move to get better deal in ST L
There is a proposal for a new stadium downtown in the vicinity of Staples Center
There is another proposal for a new stadium in the City of Industry
For years there has been a LA opinion that a new stadium would work best with two teams - a Giants and Jets share idea. I am of the opinion that even if Rogers and friends won the auction of the Bills, LA would eventually win the team anyway. NFL and the networks work in concert and LA is a mighty big prize.

[Waggy]

LA is looking for multiple teams.
I will find my links - all LA Times
The Rams owner has bought land by the racetrack and the old Forum. possibly just a bluff move to get better deal in ST L
There is a proposal for a new stadium downtown in the vicinity of Staples Center
There is another proposal for a new stadium in the City of Industry
For years there has been a LA opinion that a new stadium would work best with two teams - a Giants and Jets share idea. I am of the opinion that even if Rogers and friends won the auction of the Bills, LA would eventually win the team anyway. NFL and the networks work in concert and LA is a mighty big prize.

The Chargers have first Dibs on LA (they play in a 40 year old stadium that's falling apart and hasn't been sold out for non Raider games on the regular in a decade). The Raiders have 2nd dibs (they play in a 40 year old stadium that's falling apart and hasn't been sold out for non 49ers games on the regular in a decade). Most football fans in LA are Raiders fans, and the NFL considers LA to be inside San Diegos territory (when San Diegos games get blacked out locally (like they do 3 or 4 times a year minimum), LA can't see em)


And Ensco, from a financial POV, the Leafs move to the ACC has been great business. For both the Leafs and Raptors. As a fan it'd be better to have a real hockey rink and a real basketball arena. But from a business perspective the ACC has been success after success after success.

[Still Kicking]

Promised a link from the LA Times concerning the stadium land purchase in LA (Inglewood).

[Still Kicking]

Dibs? LA is San Diego's territory? Then why is Kroenke buying land in Inglewood and what about the two other stadium proposals? There is huge money involved in a LA stadium and getting the NFL in. Yes folks in LA still connect with the Raiders, but if two new teams arrive, it is only a matter of time.
Yes Oakland and San Diego have stadium problems, the California economy has had tough times and government at the state and county level has been starved of funding for decades now. But the NFL is not interested in losing markets. (The only one they ever lost for any stretch of time is LA)
Dibs is just not how the NFL operates. Remember Al Davis? He forced the NFL to concede on making market decisions. The biggest money will win and the US Networks will influence. That is (imho) why a Bills team for sale will be California bound not TO bound.

[Waggy]

Dibs? LA is San Diego's territory? Then why is Kroenke buying land in Inglewood and what about the two other stadium proposals? There is huge money involved in a LA stadium and getting the NFL in. Yes folks in LA still connect with the Raiders, but if two new teams arrive, it is only a matter of time.
Yes Oakland and San Diego have stadium problems, the California economy has had tough times and government at the state and county level has been starved of funding for decades now. But the NFL is not interested in losing markets. (The only one they ever lost for any stretch of time is LA)
Dibs is just not how the NFL operates. Remember Al Davis? He forced the NFL to concede on making market decisions. The biggest money will win and the US Networks will influence. That is (imho) why a Bills team for sale will be California bound not TO bound.

Dibs exist because of the exclusive territory areas NFL teams get

"“If a team moved to Los Angeles, it would have a significant economic impact on the Chargers,” Spanos said, citing a “huge” portion of the team’s business coming from Orange County."

Also

"The Chargers, who have a window every year during which they can opt out of their Qualcomm Stadium lease, have long been viewed as among the most likely teams to move to Los Angeles because of the proximity and their contention that their current facility is not viable in the long term.
Spanos has not said publicly that the Chargers will leave San Diego if they don’t get a new stadium, but neither has he denied it."


http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/...per-bowl-acee/

Moving the Bills across the country into another teams TV market requires rewriting a lot of business deals. The NFL (like all leagues) prefers to not leave markets. That's why it's much easier for the Bills to stay in their market (southern Ontario and upstate new york) and San Diego can stay in their market (So-Cal)

Also re the raiders
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/stor...ics-mark-davis

[Waggy]

Moving a team to LA if it's not the Chargers kills the Chargers. It'd be like if an NHL team moved to Hamilton. The Sabers would be dead in the water. All their corporate money and a good percentage of their ticket holders now have a new local team. The NFL wouldn't endanger one of its teams like that.


Edit:
http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb...fl-la-20140205

"
How might other teams be involved?
If you are looking for a way out of your current market — and L.A. has long been the most logical move — you don't want to be in second place. So, for instance, if you own the San Diego Chargers or Oakland Raiders, this purchase by Kroenke got your attention in a big way."

"
So who are the most likely candidates to move to the L.A. area, besides the Rams?
The usual suspects: the Chargers and Raiders. The Chargers can get out of their Qualcomm Stadium lease each year, and the city of San Diego can't sue them for leaving. That's a powerful trump card. The Chargers are also highly motivated to not have another team roll into L.A. and leave them in the shadows (with diminished leverage for getting a new stadium in San Diego.).

As for the Raiders, yes, they left a sour taste in everyone's mouth during their last L.A. go-round. But by the league's thinking, there are three ways to effectively rebrand a franchise: 1) new city, 2) new stadium, and/or 3) new owner. A move of the Raiders could have all three, even if it means Mark Davis doesn't sell his piece of the team but brings in a savvy new controlling owner.
Rebranding the Raiders might not have to be as dramatic as changing them from the Hell's Angels to the Pirates of the Caribbean. It might be more like what happened with the Seattle Seahawks when Paul Allen bought them and moved them into a dazzling new stadium. They went from a forgotten, wobbly franchise to the envy of the league, and now Super Bowl champions."

[TFC07]

LA is looking for multiple teams.
I will find my links - all LA Times
The Rams owner has bought land by the racetrack and the old Forum. possibly just a bluff move to get better deal in ST L
There is a proposal for a new stadium downtown in the vicinity of Staples Center
There is another proposal for a new stadium in the City of Industry
For years there has been a LA opinion that a new stadium would work best with two teams - a Giants and Jets share idea. I am of the opinion that even if Rogers and friends won the auction of the Bills, LA would eventually win the team anyway. NFL and the networks work in concert and LA is a mighty big prize.

Jerry Jones (Dallas Cowboys owner) said he predicts LA will get two teams in the future. (Source: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...to-los-angeles)

Currently, there are 4(maybe even 5?) teams facing relocation (Bills, Jaguars, Rams, Chargers and maybe even Raiders) I predict at least one of current California teams (Raiders or Charges) ends up moving to L.A. in the future.

[TFC07]

As for Bills, it makes perfect sense to move them to Toronto instead of L.A. since Toronto is Bills territory and Western New York fans still have a team (Technically speaking, Toronto is already declared as Bills territory and it will be a short drive for Bills fans in Western New York).

[TFC07]

Leiweke hints bringing Argos to BMO Field could have NFL implications

At a candid speech Tuesday night, Tim Leiweke — the MLSE CEO known for the kind of off-the-cuff comments that make communications staff nervous — may have hinted at a future deal between the company he directs and the CFL’s Toronto Argonauts.Leiweke has said MLSE is interested in paying for an expansion of city-owned BMO Field, and soon, to include a partial roof and more seats.

At the TIFF Bell Lightbox on Tuesday — the same day TSN published a report that talks between MLSE and current Argos owner David Braley were “heating up” — Leiweke said he’d be willing to share the refurbished field with a CFL team.

“We’re going to spend $120 million to build an English Premier (League)-style stadium, with a roof that covers the seats,” Leiweke said.

“Yeah, there are rumours there may be a CFL solution, but we’ll do it in a way you’ll never know there’s a CFL team when you’re there for a soccer game, and you’ll never know there’s a soccer team when you’re there for a CFL game. It’s engineering and we can fix that.”

Later, he said giving football fans a chance to watch games in the new stadium would help not only the CFL, but an eventual push for an NFL team.

“I think giving fans an opportunity to go see an Argos game outdoors in a stadium with a roof that covers the seat, in a 30,000-seat environment, with real grass, is awesome, and it will help turn that franchise around.

“So we’re going to start with that. There’s no way the NFL comes here without the CFL being unbelievably successful first.”

MLSE communications staff declined to comment further Tuesday night, as did the CFL.

Toronto Argos chairman and CEO Chris Rudge said while he couldn’t comment on any deal between the team’s owner and MLSE, he’d be happy to play at BMO Field.

After their Rogers Centre lease runs out in 2017, the team will need a new place to play, and Rudge said he’d be happy to return to Exhibition Place, the Argos’ former home, even as a tenant.

“I’d be delighted to hear someone would like to build us a home,” he said.

“If something more were to happen, that will work itself out,” he said, deferring to Braley and MLSE.

Another tidbit Leiweke let slip — throwing in an “am I going to get in trouble for doing this?” directed at his PR team — was a new program starting next NHL season to give away a “couple hundred” Leafs tickets each regular season game.

The tickets will go to the members of Leafs Nation, those who have never been able to afford the high ticket prices, who will attend a game for the first time as a guest of MLSE.

“We’ve got to introduce a new noise level, a new culture and a whole new generation of fans into that building,” he said.

Other future plans include involving Raptors global ambassador and hip hop megastar Drake in more MLSE business. MLSE wants to create a nightclub at the Air Canada Centre and Drake “might be a partner in that,” Leiweke said.

What it adds up to, he hopes, is the creation of a new culture among MLSE’s sports teams, starting with BMO Field.

“The city deserves it, our fans deserve it. And this is the message we’re sending all of our teams from this point on. We mean business. We want to win championships.”

Professional soccer will be as popular as the NHL in just a decade, Leiweke told the crowd of marketing professionals, which is partly why the company decided to shock the soccer world by spending tens of millions of dollars earlier this month to bringJermain Defoe and Michael Bradley to TFC.

The deal with American midfielder Bradley, the “heart and soul of U.S. national team,” even came as a surprise to U.S. head coach Jurgen Klinsmann, who had told Leiweke the deal would never happen — in the midst of negotiations and just days before the papers were signed.

Source: http://www.thestar.com/sports/2014/0..._nfl_team.html

TL/MLSE aren't exactly hiding their intention of bringing NFL team to Toronto here. Take care Argos and make sure they're protected when NFL comes to Toronto is main reason why MLSE or Larry T will be interested in owning Argos. NFL needs a healthy CFL so they can fight against any antitrust cases against them by using CFL as proof that pro football league outside of NFL can survive. So this is why MLSE or Larry T is interested in owning Argos to protect NFL's interest not because they like Canadian league even though most of players in CFL are from states (makes you really question if CFL is only Canadian by name?).

[Miko]

As for Bills, it makes perfect sense to move them to Toronto instead of L.A. since Toronto is Bills territory and Western New York fans still have a team (Technically speaking, Toronto is already declared as Bills territory and it will be a short drive for Bills fans in Western New York).

The Bills aren't going anywhere anytime soon. There is a $400MM dollar penalty if they relocate in the next 10 yrs (with the exception of year 7 when it is $29MM). So the aren't a good play until 2021 at the earliest.

[TFC07]

The Bills aren't going anywhere anytime soon. There is a $400MM dollar penalty if they relocate in the next 10 yrs (with the exception of year 7 when it is $29MM). So the aren't a good play until 2021 at the earliest.

Of course they're not coming tomorrow! There's a lot of things need to be sorted out before Bills come here that will take some time (example, building a stadium). Right now, everyone is waiting for Ralph Wilson (current Bills owner) to pass away (he''s 95 years old now) before anything happens. But so far, we're seeing signs that there will a bid coming from some sort of group (involving with MLSE) who want to buy Bills and move them to Toronto.

[molenshtain]

Of course they're not coming tomorrow! There's a lot of things need to be sorted out before Bills come here that will take some time (example, building a stadium). Right now, everyone is waiting for Ralph Wilson (current Bills owner) to pass away (he''s 95 years old now) before anything happens. But so far, we're seeing signs that there will a bid coming from some sort of group (involving with MLSE) who want to buy Bills and move them to Toronto.

The NFL reaaally like keeping their big franchises. Goodell realized how fucking stupid it was to keep moving them like they used to and now there is a much more concerted effort to build each NFL franchise into its own deeply loved institution in whatever city that is. they're really keen on finding buyers who want to keep the bills in Buffalo, the $400m price tag is just one example of this. The rams though, now the Rams are interesting.

The Rams stadium lease is up in a year and there have been almost no discussion or even effort from management to stat discussions again with the city. they're owned by Arsenal and various Colorado sport-team owner and billionaire Stan Kroenke. Stan Kroenke likes making money and he likes people liking him for being so generous as to give them a competitive team, usually by investing far-more in management than in personnel. this is mostly besides the point. more importantly, Stan Kroenke's company recently made no attempt to cover up the fact they just bought 60 acres of land in L.A. not to mention he's just gone around telling everyone he wants his own NYCFC in L.A. called the "L.A. gunners." that is obviously a stupid idea and at the end of the day, probably an impossible one. so too, would he soon find moving his NFL team to L.A. as nobody there can actually justify building another stadium downtown when they already have two other stadiums, not to mention the amount traffic problems it would cause in a city already riddled with them.

Kroenke will tire himself out with the idea of him being the golden goose who finally gave Los Angeles it's team back. He'll cut his losses and the Rams will move here. The stadium is something they'd have to figure out here but I don't think that MLSE would have been putting together a proposal already for something that's not even close to being a sure thing 10 years from now.

[TFC07]

The NFL reaaally like keeping their big franchises. Goodell realized how fucking stupid it was to keep moving them like they used to and now there is a much more concerted effort to build each NFL franchise into its own deeply loved institution in whatever city that is. they're really keen on finding buyers who want to keep the bills in Buffalo, the $400m price tag is just one example of this. The rams though, now the Rams are interesting.

The Rams stadium lease is up in a year and there have been almost no discussion or even effort from management to stat discussions again with the city. they're owned by Arsenal and various Colorado sport-team owner and billionaire Stan Kroenke. Stan Kroenke likes making money and he likes people liking him for being so generous as to give them a competitive team, usually by investing far-more in management than in personnel. this is mostly besides the point. more importantly, Stan Kroenke's company recently made no attempt to cover up the fact they just bought 60 acres of land in L.A. not to mention he's just gone around telling everyone he wants his own NYCFC in L.A. called the "L.A. gunners." that is obviously a stupid idea and at the end of the day, probably an impossible one. so too, would he soon find moving his NFL team to L.A. as nobody there can actually justify building another stadium downtown when they already have two other stadiums, not to mention the amount traffic problems it would cause in a city already riddled with them.

Kroenke will tire himself out with the idea of him being the golden goose who finally gave Los Angeles it's team back. He'll cut his losses and the Rams will move here. The stadium is something they'd have to figure out here but I don't think that MLSE would have been putting together a proposal already for something that's not even close to being a sure thing 10 years from now.

But Bills aren't selling out games despite having cheapest ticket prices in the league and their market isn't strong enough to keep supporting an NFL team especially since in the long term they need a new stadium which makes it harder and more costly to stay in Buffalo. We already know that Wilson family openly said they have no intention owning Bills once Ralph passes away. Unless there's a legitimate group with tons of money and can build a new stadium for Bills in Buffalo, I can't see Bills staying in Western New York once they're sold by family.

Owning Bills and keeping them in Buffalo isn't logical thing to do if you're in it to make money especially if you can make more money by moving up north that is only couple of hour drive away from current place. Since Toronto is already consider Bills territory, moving there shouldn't be viewed negatively from NFL POV.

Toronto is way bigger market that can bring more cash to table than Buffalo which can help increase league value by having a stronger (at least number and wealth wise) market in the league than Buffalo.

[Hustle]

Can we have a safe standing area for supporters in our renovated BMO Please?

[redcard]

what i can't understand is if mlse buys the bills and move them to toronto, would that kill the Argos?

so why would mlse or larry buy the argos only to see them die once a nfl team comes to town.

[Waggy]

what i can't understand is if mlse buys the bills and move them to toronto, would that kill the Argos?

so why would mlse or larry buy the argos only to see them die once a nfl team comes to town.

There's very little crossover of NFL and CFL fans for some reason. The Argos would continue to have their 15 000 SSH (which may grow if the team is taken care of properly). The NFL fans in this city would support the NFL, just instead of all sorts of random teams they would support the Toronto whatevers. The corporate dollars in this city that already go towards the NFL will stay, the cash going to the CFL will stay. They market to 2 totally different groups. When you advertise with the CFL you are aiming for all of Canada except southern Ontario. When you advertise with the NFL you are aiming for the GTA. If Toronto got an NFL team that doesn't change that equation in the slightest. It just means the people who want to advertise with the NFL will be paying more.

[Beach_Red]

Of course they're not coming tomorrow! There's a lot of things need to be sorted out before Bills come here that will take some time (example, building a stadium). Right now, everyone is waiting for Ralph Wilson (current Bills owner) to pass away (he''s 95 years old now) before anything happens. But so far, we're seeing signs that there will a bid coming from some sort of group (involving with MLSE) who want to buy Bills and move them to Toronto.

As long as there is zero government money spent on a stadium for an NFL team, I don't care. Unfortunately, the whole history of the NFL and MLSE is about getting government money.

[Fort York Redcoat]

what i can't understand is if mlse buys the bills and move them to toronto, would that kill the Argos?

so why would mlse or larry buy the argos only to see them die once a nfl team comes to town.

NFL agreement with CFL. It would be in the contract to protect the CFL franchise.

[Beach_Red]

NFL agreement with CFL. It would be in the contract to protect the CFL franchise.

That would seem to be impossible to enforce in any real way. I guess they could be required to carry the Argos at a loss but remember the NFL is officially a non-profit organization so their contracts must be pretty complicated...

it would be a real issue for Bell and Rogers, though. If two government-protected Toronto-based companies did anything that seriously hurt the CFL there would be some repurcussions from western Canada and Montreal where the CFL is very popular. Imagine if the telecom market in Canada was opened up to American/international companies in any meaningful way?