Originally Posted by TFC07
Hahaha just saw this post. Well put!
Yes... They will finanlly get it
No.... They will screw this up royally
hmmm... not sure? how much money will they make from this?
Hahaha just saw this post. Well put!
Im a cfl fan but i never watch original programming on cbc(then again im in my mid 20s) I feel like ppl out west particularly alberta and sask love it. Republic of doyle. Little mosque on the prairie. Corner gas. I dont know anyone from ontario east who watches those lol. Must be all the westerners over the age of 40.
Last edited by king10; 02-22-2015 at 12:43 AM.
This exchange is pretty funny.
G00gle machine Wembley after NFL and I don't have to wonder about what's true or propaganda.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
This is a great point. Supporters Support.
That said, some things are more important to each of us. A lot of this talk in here is more about the financial opportunity of MLSE than the quality of the game we watch. I was vocal from the the start of this phase of the Argos to BMO talk that I'd take grass over a roof any day. It's about the play more than how well people can hear me or staying dry.
We watch MLS games every year that have gridiron lines that don't come off completely (as was promised)
We've seen other cities finally get specific stadia after years of watching in sub par environs (Congrats again to DC)
We see every year the difference in turf quality from grass.
This hit to the quality of the play at BMO that a lot of people are willing to take doesn't even jive with the overall commitment management has made to spending to acquire the best talent they can get. Why pay more on players and then get rid of the surface they would prefer to play on?
Honestly I have no idea how MLSE or the club are going to preserve or enhance the experience. It certainly won't be any more or less conducive to the way we support. I only know that once agreed upon the quality can only go downhill since we've achieved at least the playing surface the players say they want to play on. MLSE are risking it for a team people MAY come see again in a new place for a while.
Hows the turf at TD/Frank Clair Stadium? You have groundshare there. What's the experience like and would you prefer a smaller, even it was a simpler stadium if it meant a natural surface the National teams would love to play on?
Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 02-22-2015 at 09:51 AM.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Moderator
This is a pretty absurd generalization. I don't even like most CBC original programming, but Hockey Night in Canada has been their flagship product for decades, and certainly appeals to "urban" viewers. They have their weird deal with Rogers now, but it's still produced and aired on CBC - ergo, CBC programming. I also see no reason why stuff like "Murdoch Mysteries" (or whatever that show is called), wouldn't appeal to "urban" viewers - even if you personally think that show is bland schlock, like I do.
Situating a TV show in rural areas, doesn't suddenly make a show unappealing to "urban" viewers - any more than situating a show in the medieval era, would. It comes down to the quality of the storytelling. They have a mandate to create programming that appeals to the entire country, so they don't situate all of their shows in urban centers.
And lastly, "old farts" are citizens and voters, just like you.
I'd much sooner have a strong public broadcaster, than save the extra $5 on my income taxes. The government wastes money on a lot worse things than the CBC.
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
I'd believe my eyes. We've already been through this debate with several examples through the years of damage from different surfaces from the 2 sports. I don't need to rely on the word of either.
You'll have to let us know how Tim Hortons Field holds up. It may mean going to an NASL game though, since I doubt you'd notice the impact truly at the Ti-Cats game. They move in Aug 3 after the soccer finishes at Pan-Am July10-26. (Oh look another stadium getting built around an event)
Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 02-22-2015 at 09:22 AM.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Moderator
This second sentence is essentially what I said. As long as they preserve the experience, I am fine with the Argos coming to BMO Field.
And there's more to "the experience" than what the supporters bring. I don't want CFL adverts all over the place, I don't want permanent CFL lines, and I don't want a mangled field.
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
Yet the that is another place that is rife with talk of permanent moves for gridiron. Imagine having to travel to Chester to see a carved up pitch. Yikes.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Moderator
What? The city of Toronto doesn't own the Toronto Argonauts, unless you're implying David Braley is going to be putting $170 million towards road construction. This is the epitome of a false dichotomy. The city and MLSE are under no obligation to help bail out the Argos for their failure to plan for the future. If they choose to, then so be it, but the Argos are not some public utility. They're a privately-owned football team that can't draw flies, and loses money, despite paying $0 to play where they currently do. They're also a privately-owned sports franchise that backed out of more than one stadium proposition, that wouldn't have left them in this situation in the first place.
The "smart financial decision" would be for the city, and all levels of government to tell the Argos (and MLSE/TFC, for that matter), to go pound sand, and fund their own stadiums and renovations from now on - full freight. The supposed economic ROI for the city on stadium funding deals, is always complete bunk.
Except MLSE are under no obligation to marry the Argos, unless (and I'm not even 100% sure on this point, because I don't know the exact terms of their management contract) the city forces them to for some reason.i guess you kinda have to look at it as a marriage. Maybe an arranged marriage lol. And with every marriage there is give and take and compromises to be made. Such is life.
You're operating under the a priori assumption that the Argos *must* be helped, by either the city, or MLSE. Why? Keeping in mind "Because oldest pro sports franchise in North America!" isn't an answer. And putting everything down to the "economic climate", is just an evasion.
The Argos situation is a problem that needs to be solved, but no one is obligated to help them solve it. Perhaps it has to end with the Argos playing outside the GTA, if not as far away as Hamilton.
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
another page, no pics/updates...*sigh*
Its radio and its the top rated radio show of the day in Toronto. Has been for more then a decade.
Dude. I got snowshoes but no camera. Meet me there?
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Thank you for this. Can Y'all talk about the agros elsewhere and leave this to construction updates for now?
Thf is field turf though. I do have tickets to the pan am gold medal soccer match though. I hope canada makes it. Will be tough as the gold cup is going on at the same time so the player pool will be spread.I'd believe my eyes. We've already been through this debate with several examples through the years of damage from different surfaces from the 2 sports. I don't need to rely on the word of either.
You'll have to let us know how Tim Hortons Field holds up. It may mean going to an NASL game though, since I doubt you'd notice the impact truly at the Ti-Cats game. They move in Aug 3 after the soccer finishes at Pan-Am July10-26. (Oh look another stadium getting built around an event
The city of atlanta doesnt own the braves or falcons. A lot of municipalties dont have to help the franchise but they end up doing it. Also the argos actually do pay a lease at rogers centre now. The old free lease expired years ago. the city already committed their 10 million to bmo cfl configuration. But i agree under no circumstance shold the city be building the argos a brand new stadium. Far too costly when you have a perfectly capable BMO.
Anddd the arranged marrige i was referring to was the city forcing mlse to take care of the Argos. Didnt tim lieweke say something to that tune a while back?
Anyways there isnt much left to debate that already hasnt been said until more significant news breaks. Braley says idealy hed like to have a deal done within 30 days but may take till the summer. So we'll know soon enough.
Last edited by king10; 02-22-2015 at 12:22 PM.
Pics as of Feb 16
We'll be going to all the matches that don't interfere with the Gold cup game at BMO. They'll be threads about it here on organizing how we all get together.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
++++1 if that is even possible? LOL
I used to be of the majority who thought CBC programming was...meh. Of course, I would watch HNIC, the Olympics, the news and FIFA tournaments on it.
As for the original programming, I started watching it more when I cut cable and started using the antenna. I have to say, it's not that bad...at times it can even be clever. Keep in mind it has a much smaller budget and has to cover news in a country bigger than the US but 1/10th the population. Their news coverage is really good and critical. Also, I like shows like Murdoch Mysteries and Mr D. They may not be as good as Modern Family but surely better than garbage like 2 Broke Girls or anything else with a laugh track.
How many people here complain about Bell and Rogers? Marketplace has hammered those companies for their phone and tv services a lot in the past.
As for HNIC and Rogers? Well Rogers, a private company bid an insane amount of money to buy ALL hockey rights in this country. How the NHL was allowed to sell everything to ONE company is beyond me. It seems though, that the same people complaining about CBC's programming are also the ones complaining that it's subsidized. So should CBC have outbid Rogers' 2+ billion? Would people be ok with our taxes then?
It seems to me that the private television companies tend to let CBC do the trial runs on programming before bidding. MLS seems like a good example of something that started on CBC (and Rogers SN) before TSN got interested.
Sorry for my rant...it's a little tiresome to hear CBC bashing without some critical thought.
As for the Argos into BMO field? We all know it's going to unfortunately happen. We just have to make sure they don't screw it up! And if anything does happen where the pitch is unplayable or lines are visible we let them know. The good thing is, we know our opponents will cause a stir too. So good luck to MLSE hushing any criticism about our pitch conditions.
Moderator
The context of my response was you citing a "smart financial decision" - I pointed out that giving team owners public money to build their stadiums is never a "smart financial decision" for the cities that do it. Yes, I know it's common. Politicians making poor decisions, is common.
I'll take your word on that first point and graciously stand corrected, though it doesn't alter much I wrote. No, the city should not build the Argos a new stadium; it shouldn't be giving them money for any stadium arrangement. Chipping in for a soccer stadium made marginally more sense for the government(s), only because it's also used as the national facility for soccer - but MLSE should have been paying far more than they originally did.Also the argos actually do pay a lease at rogers centre now. The old free lease expired years ago. the city already committed their 10 million to bmo cfl configuration. But i agree under no circumstance shold the city be building the argos a brand new stadium. Far too costly when you have a perfectly capable BMO.
Possibly. It's been extremely unclear exactly what is motivating these talks, aside from MLSE just wanting another tenant to make them money, and to retrofit BMO Field so they can host other events (and make them money). Sometimes it sounds like the city is pushing this, and sometimes it doesn't. If the city is pushing it, then so be it - you're right, from a purely pragmatic taxpayer perspective, as I said yesterday, BMO Field makes the most sense for the Argos.Anddd the arranged marrige i was referring to was the city forcing mlse to take care of the Argos. Didnt tim lieweke say something to that tune a while back?
Braley sounds far less confident that some of the newspaper headlines make it sound. His only major note of optimism for a deal was something along the lines of "obstacles can be surmounted"... but then admitted there were significant obstacles, he wasn't sure if they could get past.Anyways there isnt much left to debate that already hasnt been said until more significant news breaks. Braley says idealy hed like to have a deal done within 30 days but may take till the summer. So we'll know soon enough.
Braley is highly unlikely to put up much money to fund the renovation, as are the government (as we already know) - which leaves the CFL itself. I can't wait to hear the other owners react, if the new commish says he wants to put up millions of dollars to help get the Argos a new home.
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
I think its just the feds who wont put up the money. From what ive heard the city and province are on board. But i can respect your opinion that no public funds should go into the conversion. And ya braley wont put up much of his own money. Only way private money goes to it is if he gives the franchise to mlse for a nominal fee or if the other 8 cfl teams chip in. Its not unprecedented(other cfl franchises chipping in),when the cats were in guelph the league subsidized the lost revenue at the temp venue.
Also these guys didnt get to be good business people and millionaries by showing all their cards to the media. Until a decision is made public all we can do is speculate.
Awesome ill keep my eyes open for them. It'll be interesting to see who coaches. Floro is the olympic coach and thats the team that will be playing at the pan ams. But floro will be at the gold cup. Also there are a ton of players who could play on both teams so i wonder what the rosters will look like. Good thing is olympic qualifying tournament is on a fifa date in october i think. And it doesnt overlap with wcq so we arent stretching our roster thin. However the 3rd olympic playoff is in march( or february?) in brazil against the south american team and that conflicts with wcq. Hopefully somehow we can directly qualify in the top 2. But after our melt down in u20 qualifying i wont be holding my breath.
Last edited by king10; 02-22-2015 at 01:21 PM.
Corner Gas was not CBC.
CTV then right? shows how much i know.
Move the goalposts much? Just discount the programs that hurt your argument!
You haven't read my words very carefully. See the word "listen"? Metro Morning on CBC Radio One is the #1 morning talk radio show in the city by far for at least a decade. That's the real reason the "privates" hate CBC so much. Meanwhile RB and 640 (the "competition") continue to decline into oblivion. They can only dream of achieving the Radio One numbers.Local CBC news? People watch that? What's their ratings compare to other Toronto news outlet?
You mean the Rogers that is actually seeing ratings decrease and who is losing their shirts since winning the rights from CBC? The Rogers that promised their advertisers an increase in numbers of about 10% but achieved the opposite? BTW, Rogers continued the Saturday night games on CBC because the NHL asked them to because they knew the importance of continuing the tradition particularly as it is available OTA.You mean Rogers run HNIC?
Yes they did but that doesn't address your point that nobody watches CBC. Brazil 2014 was the most successful World Cup on Canadian television thus far and it was on (in the main) CBC.They lost FIFA rights to TSN/Bell now, so no point mentioning that even though hosting an event for a month in every 4 years isn't same as everyday programming.
Keep on moving those goalposts!
... and this year the company running the construction of the new stadium paid out $1 million for every game that the Ti-Cats had to play at Mac due to the stadium not opening on time.
Indeed!
During their training session on the pitch, a member of Slovenia's backroom staff was much more scathing of the surface.
"Down the wings it is fine but there is a 10-metre square patch right in the middle where the pitch is completely ruined, there is no grass there at all," he said.
http://www.itv.com/england-football/...slovenia-coach
Moderator
I'm probably in the same camp as you two. Honestly, I sorta roll my eyes when I read about people claiming that they'll throw away their season tickets the first instances they see a bit of blue on the concourse or even the slightest indication the pitch was used for anything other than soccer. Maybe it's me, but I just can't work myself up over those small issues when I look at the bigger picture of ground-sharing and what else we're going to be giving up.
Last edited by Cashcleaner; 02-22-2015 at 04:53 PM.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
Moderator
For the people claiming this? Yes, it's ridiculous.
But I don't think most people are concerned about "the slightest indication" the pitch was used for CFL football, or a bit of blue - I think they are concerned with the pitch becoming a big mess, combined with CFL adverts and/or lines on the pitch for TFC games.
As a supporter, you have limited means to express your displeasure in a meaningful way. Not opening your wallet for them is one such option.
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
Bc place doesnt have adds on the field. Theres no requirement that ads be on the field. If MLSE buys the argos they'll probably go without adds on the field because it would be difficult to remove in one week. If MLSE doesnt buy the argos and just leases bmo they'll probably write into the lease agreement that no ads are allowed on the field of play. Or perhaps only ads in the endzones (which will presumably be field turf as grass cant grow under stands) because that will be coevered by the retractable seats in soccer mode.
Moderator
I had previously heard the plan was to have logos and stuff relegated to the FieldTurf CFL endzones that will be hidden under the retractable stands. No idea if that's still the current plan.
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
Posting Permissions
