Sit Down to Watch!

[TFC Cityboy]

^^ more a case of specific "standing" sections, as it's assumed that most people will use those red plastic seat-shaped beer-holders to park themselves on to watch the match.
I think the FO has been as responsive as they can be, given the capacity restrictions.

This is directly from the TFC site
NEW TORONTO FC SUPPORTERS SECTIONS FOR 2009We want to make sure that our house remains a place that can be enjoyed by everyone, and also allows like-minded fans to support our club together in their own way. After a lot of thought and a lot of feedback, we’ve decided to designate more sections at BMO Field as ‘Supporters Sections’. Our definition of a ‘Supporters Section’ is an area where standing throughout match play is allowed, as well as the use of flags, banners, drums and streamers. Therefore, in addition to Sections 112 through 118, Sections 111, 119, 127, and the top half of 110 allow this behaviour for 2009 and beyond. All other sections will be expected to remain seated throughout the games, unless match play suggests otherwise.

These changes will affect a lot of our fans. It’s important for those that may want to sit in these sections to understand that their view may be obstructed during match play, and maybe this isn’t the spot for you. Don’t worry, we have plenty of other areas in the stadium may be a better fit, including our Family Section in 227 if you have young children.

[drewski]

Not to be a dick Paul, but hundreds of the probably few thousand who all want to be in standing areas. I have no problem with people sitting as long as they are involved, but tossing someone out for standing seems ludacris and over the top considering there are KNOWN scalpers and scalped seats and I'm sure plenty other issues that could be addressed.

if the standing in those area's negatively effects other's enjoyment of the game, which I assume is what would be required to have people complain and have you asked to sit down, then it makes sense for the person to be tossed if they don't comply with with the request to sit from the staff. Afetrall, if there was no punishment (ejection) then there would be no incentive for fans to comply with staff requests and things could get out of hand really quickly.

as for the the relation to other infractions that aren't being addressed, they should be, but regardless, that isn't a good excuse for saying this rule shouldn't be enforced.

[Shaughno]

if the standing in those area's negatively effects other's enjoyment of the game, which I assume is what would be required to have people complain and have you asked to sit down, then it makes sense for the person to be tossed if they don't comply with with the request to sit from the staff. Afetrall, if there was no punishment (ejection) then there would be no incentive for fans to comply with staff requests and things could get out of hand really quickly.

as for the the relation to other infractions that aren't being addressed, they should be, but regardless, that isn't a good excuse for saying this rule shouldn't be enforced.

Every person who pays for a ticket is entitled to enjoy themselves at the match, whether that be standing or sitting. I have no problem with that. Not every one can get into a supporter/standing area, for whatever reason. Are you telling me these people can't enjoy the match in that manner without being tossed?

There are ways to rectify the situation before tossing someone out of the stadium for standing. Ask them to switch seats with the person complaining so that those standing would be behind those sitting. Ask for the person who wants to stand, to move to another section or the beer garden. Like I said, if someone is being a dick about it, sure toss them. But there is no need to be tossing fans because they want to stand. Maybe the security will be better this year, but I'd bet that all it takes is a single complaint to get tossed instead of politely trying to solve the problem first.

[olegunnar]

Not to be a dick Paul, but hundreds of the probably few thousand who all want to be in standing areas. I have no problem with people sitting as long as they are involved, but tossing someone out for standing seems ludacris and over the top considering there are KNOWN scalpers and scalped seats and I'm sure plenty other issues that could be addressed.

I respect the stories of people that have elderly relatives that can't stand for 90 minutes, or the people that say they can be involved even while sitting (how? I don't know but that's not me). There has to be rules for standing/sitting.

What gets me about these policies is the fact that a one time person that could not give two shits about TFC and shows up 20 minutes late, spends half the time on their cell phone and the other half asking the other people in the group what snacks they might want, laughs when the other team scores....suddenly is going to get someone who bleeds red kicked out of a game for supporting.

I know rules are rules, and I appreciate the difficulty the FO has in dealing with everyone and keeping everyone happy. I just don't see the "fairness" in it especially given how the FO usually bends over backwards for season ticket holders.

[redcard]

I know rules are rules, and I appreciate the difficulty the FO has in dealing with everyone and keeping everyone happy. I just don't see the "fairness" in it especially given how the FO usually bends over backwards for season ticket holders.

There are STHs that expect to be sitting...and FO has to listen to them as well...SGs are not the only STHs that attend the matches and support the team.

[Shaughno]

I respect the stories of people that have elderly relatives that can't stand for 90 minutes, or the people that say they can be involved even while sitting (how? I don't know but that's not me). There has to be rules for standing/sitting.

What gets me about these policies is the fact that a one time person that could not give two shits about TFC and shows up 20 minutes late, spends half the time on their cell phone and the other half asking the other people in the group what snacks they might want, laughs when the other team scores....suddenly is going to get someone who bleeds red kicked out of a game for supporting.

I know rules are rules, and I appreciate the difficulty the FO has in dealing with everyone and keeping everyone happy. I just don't see the "fairness" in it especially given how the FO usually bends over backwards for season ticket holders.

And that's exactly my point. I understand catering to those who don't/can't stand, but it's not very fair to those who would like to. Most of the people who actually NEED to sit down, don't mind if people are standing around them, or are at least polite about asking them to move/sit/swap/etc. It's the people who don't give two fucks, won't be there the next week, etc. that tend to complain the most about it. My grandparents sat down when they went to the match and they thoroughly enjoyed themselves, even with people standing in front of them for periods of the match. Not once did they yell at anyone, "SIT DOWN ASSHOLE" or "sit down you're blocking my view".

If you want to play the 'fairness' card, at least work with both sides. That's all I'm saying.

[Shaughno]

There are STHs that expect to be sitting...and FO has to listen to them as well...SGs are not the only STHs that attend the matches and support the team.

Read my last two posts. It can be solved without tossing people. I have given tickets to people who sat down the whole match, enjoyed themselves and never once bitched about people standing. Not all of the people standing are in SG's either.

[drewski]

Every person who pays for a ticket is entitled to enjoy themselves at the match, whether that be standing or sitting. I have no problem with that. Not every one can get into a supporter/standing area, for whatever reason. Are you telling me these people can't enjoy the match in that manner without being tossed?

if their enjoyment has a greater negative effect on the enjoyment of others around them, then within reason, ya.

while i understand having to sit through a game might not be the best most enjoyable way to watch a game, I know I love to stand and cheer sometimes, in the end you can still do a great job supporting your team on while sitting and still get some enjoyment out of the game. whereas if your a sitter, you're pretty much screwed out of enjoying the game if they guy in front of you is standing and blocking your view.

ideally, the people in the area should maybe talk this out pregame and maybe even swap seats so that everybody, the standers and sitters are happy, but that isn't always gonna happen.

and I just want to be clear that I think they should be tossed only after they have been given fair warning and continue to disobey the requests of the staff.

[olegunnar]

There are STHs that expect to be sitting...and FO has to listen to them as well...SGs are not the only STHs that attend the matches and support the team.

Then you missed the point of my post.


There are a lot of scalpers tickets and tickets managed by groups. Those tickets are sold on a game by game basis. My experience with those types of people/fans is not in the least positive (by that I mean food being thrown at us, beers thrown on the field by them, said beer thrower not wearing a bra and closing his shirt eventhough he really needed to, verbal abuse, and a total lack of interest in the game going on on the field). Oakville soccer club cough cough.

My point is that the enforcement of the rules needs to take into account who is involved.

If you have someone that goes to every game that's supporting the team, and you have some lardass that shows up late, leaves early and inbetween stuffs their face with nachos and gabs on their cell phone...it's unfortunate that the supporter doesn't get the benefit of the decision.

[Shaughno]

if their enjoyment has a greater negative effect on the enjoyment of others around them, then within reason, ya.

while i understand having to sit through a game might not be the best most enjoyable way to watch a game, I know I love to stand and cheer sometimes, in the end you can still do a great job supporting your team on while sitting and still get some enjoyment out of the game. whereas if your a sitter, you're pretty much screwed out of enjoying the game if they guy in front of you is standing and blocking your view.

ideally, the people in the area should maybe talk this out pregame and maybe even swap seats so that everybody, the standers and sitters are happy, but that isn't always gonna happen.

and I just want to be clear that I think they should be tossed only after they have been given fair warning and continue to disobey the requests of the staff.

But what about those who want to stand? Being told to sit isn't negatively effecting their experience?

It's totally a double standard IMO. I personally can't enjoy a match as much as I'd like to if I'm sitting. Trust me, I almost got kicked out of Old Trafford for standing because I didn't know you couldn't.

I said it a few times, it can be resolved in a respectful manner if the 'sitters' would actually take the time to ask instead of calling for security at the first opportunity. Which, has already happened and will continue to happen.

[Arnie Knows]

so when we told you about the growing of the supporters sections, and the new policy about sitting vs standing (which is TFC trying to accommodate their fans) you simply say f-u and will wait and see? well if the people behind you complain you'll be asked to sit down. if you don't sit down, you'll be asked to leave. Pretty simple.

Loads of people moved their locations to adjust how they enjoy the game (some want to stand, others don't). It worked for (literally) hundreds of people.

but you're different how?

Do you think for one minute that this person MLSinToronto is on the Supporters side .. My opinion is no he is not ..He is allowed to just sit in here and buddy buddy with everyone for the sole reason of keepin the group at arms length .. MLSE knows how to use the law and policies etc to keep u in line .. It does make me laugh that for the most part this MLSintoronto humors and plays along with all this stuff but seriously its a song and dance .. Supporters are a big part of event here but can be a bother to the general audience ..

[Steve]

Every person who pays for a ticket is entitled to enjoy themselves at the match, whether that be standing or sitting. I have no problem with that. Not every one can get into a supporter/standing area, for whatever reason. Are you telling me these people can't enjoy the match in that manner without being tossed?

Yeah! Personally, I like to enjoy a match while standing on the person in front of me, who are they to complain! Their right to enjoy a match without being stood on is equal to my right to enjoy a match while standing on their head!

Seriously though, you're not talking about equal rights here. You can't do something that seriously takes away from someone elses enjoyment of the game, unless you are in a specific section designated for that type of activity. I mean sure, if an entire section wants to stand up, and there are 1 or 2 holdouts I would say you have a point, but what if it's a small group of people in the front rows, and the rest of the section wants to sit? Well, in order to see the game (which is what most people pay for) the people directly behind (and diagonally) the small group of people need to stand up too. Then, those behind the people standing because the first group is standing, and so on and so on. Eventually you have a group of 5 people forcing hundreds to stand when they DON'T WANT TO! When did personal rights and freedoms turn into the right to take away other people's rights?

Personally, I'm in a no standing section. Would I rather be in a supporter's section? Of course I would, but I couldn't get tickets there. Will that make me stand up and ruin the game for everyone behind me? No, because I'm not an ass. Apparently common curtesy isn't so common anymore, so BMO staff needs to have some kind of disincentive to it. I'm sure they wouldn't kick you out right away, they will come and warn you first, but if you keep standing (after repeated warnings) what do you expect them to do?

[Shaughno]

Yeah! Personally, I like to enjoy a match while standing on the person in front of me, who are they to complain! Their right to enjoy a match without being stood on is equal to my right to enjoy a match while standing on their head!

Seriously though, you're not talking about equal rights here. You can't do something that seriously takes away from someone elses enjoyment of the game, unless you are in a specific section designated for that type of activity. I mean sure, if an entire section wants to stand up, and there are 1 or 2 holdouts I would say you have a point, but what if it's a small group of people in the front rows, and the rest of the section wants to sit? Well, in order to see the game (which is what most people pay for) the people directly behind (and diagonally) the small group of people need to stand up too. Then, those behind the people standing because the first group is standing, and so on and so on. Eventually you have a group of 5 people forcing hundreds to stand when they DON'T WANT TO! When did personal rights and freedoms turn into the right to take away other people's rights?

Personally, I'm in a no standing section. Would I rather be in a supporter's section? Of course I would, but I couldn't get tickets there. Will that make me stand up and ruin the game for everyone behind me? No, because I'm not an ass. Apparently common curtesy isn't so common anymore, so BMO staff needs to have some kind of disincentive to it. I'm sure they wouldn't kick you out right away, they will come and warn you first, but if you keep standing (after repeated warnings) what do you expect them to do?

And what about those who bitch, yell, throw shit, and complain to security at the first opportunity, even though they'll probably never attend another match during the entire season? Those tend to be the most vocal about the issues in the stands.

Anyway, apparently everyone neglected to read my earlier posts where I said I have no problem with people sitting or standing, but be fair about it instead of straight up tossing someone out. Which trust me, has and will continue to happen.

I'm in 112, so I really don't give a shit. I was just trying to give insight to the OTHER side of things which apparently is forbidden.

[Steve]

And what about those who bitch, yell, throw shit, and complain to security at the first opportunity, even though they'll probably never attend another match during the entire season? Those tend to be the most vocal about the issues in the stands.

Anyway, apparently everyone neglected to read my earlier posts where I said I have no problem with people sitting or standing, but be fair about it instead of straight up tossing someone out. Which trust me, has and will continue to happen.

I'm in 112, so I really don't give a shit. I was just trying to give insight to the OTHER side of things which apparently is forbidden.

Sure, those who throw things need to be kicked out since that's also against the rules. All I'm saying is, it isn't ridiculous for the club to insist on people sitting down in non SG sections. A few people standing can ruin the game for a lot of people who want to sit. So, if you have tickets in a sitting section, just know you'll have to sit, because if you do stand, you'll be blocking the match from a bunch of other people, which isn't fair at all (and being forced to sit doesn't impact your enjoyment nearly as much as being forced not to see).

And yes, I agree that they should be fair, but tossing someone should always be an option. If it isn't an option, people will just not listen to security at all. I think security should come in and warn those standing first, but again, if they don't head the warnings, why not remove them?

[Stugatzo]

...It does make me laugh that for the most part this MLSintoronto humors and plays along with all this stuff but seriously its a song and dance.

It's true!
Paul is one of the funniest guys I know and is one helluva dancer!!

Your other points are just silly.

[Sonny Cheeba]

sitting and standing doesn't make a difference for the atmosphere in most of the stadium. outside of the bottom of 112 and 113, and now all of 127, people stand but i notice the cheering is lacking. even in 111, 110. yeah the sections are "supporters sections" but i'd say roughly 50% of people in 111 don't chant anything other dan Dichio24 or The Massive, and it's an even lower number in 110.

what's my point. we can stand in these sections, but the person next to you will still be talking about some ski trip they have planned in the off season. i'm not getting down on these sections, i love 110, but the extra support within these sections is localized to a scattered minority. this is my opinion based on last season. i used to have the mentality that we should all "stand up for the tfc" because that's what i do, but i really can't give a fuck. i just want people to get into the game and stop talking about wee willy's lovely macaroni mother's day card.

[Steve]

Do you think for one minute that this person MLSinToronto is on the Supporters side .. My opinion is no he is not ..He is allowed to just sit in here and buddy buddy with everyone for the sole reason of keepin the group at arms length .. MLSE knows how to use the law and policies etc to keep u in line .. It does make me laugh that for the most part this MLSintoronto humors and plays along with all this stuff but seriously its a song and dance .. Supporters are a big part of event here but can be a bother to the general audience ..

You're one of those "damn the man" people aren't you? You think any large corporation is evil, and only there to steal your money?

Anyway, did it every occur to you that Paul could be on the supporters' side AND on MLSE's side? He helps MLSE make money, by keeping the supporters happy. Yes, of course you have to read his posts as someone who works for MLSE, but that doesn't make him a bad-guy like you are accusing him of.

[brad]

but what if it's a small group of people in the front rows, and the rest of the section wants to sit? Well, in order to see the game (which is what most people pay for) the people directly behind (and diagonally) the small group of people need to stand up too. Then, those behind the people standing because the first group is standing, and so on and so on. Eventually you have a group of 5 people forcing hundreds to stand when they DON'T WANT TO!

I hope security is trained to handle exactly this case if it comes up. I can see a situation where someone at the back complains to security, and the people in front of them get kicked out, even though they are only standing to see over the other people in front of them.

[olegunnar]

And what about those who bitch, yell, throw shit, and complain to security at the first opportunity, even though they'll probably never attend another match during the entire season? Those tend to be the most vocal about the issues in the stands.

Thatr's what I'm talking about. Maybe I'm unlucky...but pretty much everygame I've been to I've seen those types of people. They're the same ones that are up and down and back and forth through the ailses while the game is on.

That said I believe that if someone wants to stand and the season ticket holders in the section respectfully ask them to sit down, they should sit...or leave.

Sure, those who throw things need to be kicked out since that's also against the rules. All I'm saying is, it isn't ridiculous for the club to insist on people sitting down in non SG sections.

But there's a grey area...you're allowed to stand when the excitement on the field warrants it. That's the rules.
I think the interpretation of the rules when there is a grey area needs to be slanted towards the more frequent ticket holder.
Any idiot can show up for one game and can whine and complain that they aren't getting their way....that's dangerous.

[Shaughno]

That said I believe that if someone wants to stand and the season ticket holders in the section respectfully ask them to sit down, they should sit...or leave.

Agreed, and I've never said anything otherwise as some people seem to think.

[scooter]

the FO has bent over backwards for STH and paul etal are doing a great job

if you want to stand stand but if someone objects take the path of least resistance and sit down or move

unfortunatly i agree with scalper tickets but that doesnt give anyone the right to be rude because of how these folks obtained their tickets
i am sure the front office is working on scalper issues but its only year 3 so be patient grasshopper

BOTTOM LINE---ITS OUR HOUSE SO LETS MAKE IT A GREAT PLACE TO WATCH A GAME AND SUPPORT OUR TEAM

lets all get along with everyone and make game day what its supposed to be a united group of supporters for tfc

[Pachuco]

I absolutely detest sitting. In fact, once I sit my chants dissapear and I get angry to the point where I start bashing Ruiz (ok that was for other reasons). However, if someone asks me nicely to sit then I'll sit for most of the game. If someone is a prick about it, then they'll get my rear end the entire game. I would go as far as sitting when the security guy looks and standing otherwise

I'm in 109, so looks like I'll be sitting alot this year...arrrghhh.

[Mrs. Workie]

Workie was asked to sit down in 127 last season (our seats are in row 11). I had to laugh....

[Shaughno]

the FO has bent over backwards for STH and paul etal are doing a great job

Off topic, but they've listened to us on certain issues for sure. Bending over backwards? Hardly, they do what they can within their realm and that is what should be expected.

[drewski]

But what about those who want to stand? Being told to sit isn't negatively effecting their experience?

It's totally a double standard IMO. I personally can't enjoy a match as much as I'd like to if I'm sitting. Trust me, I almost got kicked out of Old Trafford for standing because I didn't know you couldn't.

as you said, you can't enjoy a match "AS MUCH" if you're sitting. I know I can't enjoy a match at all if I'm sitting and having my view blocked or trying to look around a stander.


so, in the end, my point is that, in general, since the person sitting behind the stander is more negatively affected then the stander that is forced to sit, the stander should sit as they would be inconvenienced less

[Pachuco]

as you said, you can't enjoy a match "AS MUCH" if you're sitting. I know I can't enjoy a match at all if I'm sitting and having my view blocked or trying to look around a stander.


so, in the end, my point is that, in general, since the person sitting behind the stander is more negatively affected then the stander that is forced to sit, the stander should sit as they would be inconvenienced less

Not to be a dick, but your argument makes no sense. If you were really going to have that argument of who is more negatively effected then it's You standing and watching the game (because the person is standing in front of you) or the person in front of you having to sit all game (because you decided you want to sit).

Having said that, if you are a kid, elderly, handicapped or have another reaosn to sit, then I don't mind sitting for you at all.

[Shaughno]

as you said, you can't enjoy a match "AS MUCH" if you're sitting. I know I can't enjoy a match at all if I'm sitting and having my view blocked or trying to look around a stander.


so, in the end, my point is that, in general, since the person sitting behind the stander is more negatively affected then the stander that is forced to sit, the stander should sit as they would be inconvenienced less

Dude, I never said that people should stand regardless of other people's opinions. My point is that this rule will be over-enforced IMO and GOOD people will be tossed without a single warning.

You certainly cannot enjoy a match if you get tossed because some tosser showed up 30 mins into the match, doesn't like that you're standing and instead of asking you politely to sit down, goes directly to security and has you tossed.

PS. you can technically enjoy a match sitting with someone blocking your view, you just choose not to. I don't always have a clear view even when I'm standing, but I CHOOSE not to let it effect my game day experience.

[Parkdale]

I found myself standing a few times in the first season, mostly when a player was on a rush to the net. I got a tap on my shoulder once, and it was a middle aged guy. He asked if I wouldn't mind sitting, just because I was blocking his father's view. Next to the 40 year old, was a guy who looked about 70. He can't jump up to watch over my shoulder, so I've been sitting ever since*

* durring play, obviously we all jump up during goals.


In the end, you have to enjoy the game experience within the limits of your section. Clearly it's not all black and white, but the people right around do set the precedent.

[Nomad]

It really wasn't all that hard to move into standing sections during relocation. Even people who just got the rights to tickets transfered before Oct had a chance. When relocation was happening there was still seats left in 127 at the very last day on the very last appointment.

If you had tickets and could move i have no sympathy.

If you just got tickets now, stfu, bide your time and you'll be relocated when the time comes.

If standing means that much to you, it's pretty easy to sneak into standing sections...

[Arnie Knows]

True he maybe a true supporter of supporters