even Columbus?Originally Posted by ExiledRed
even Columbus?
Sure, if handled creatively and intelligently.
I don't think Columbus or Ottawa are "large cities". Columbus is 32nd largest MSA in USA (about 35th in North America). Ottawa would be about 50th in North America.
Plus, and this is important, teams from these types of small cities are often terrible draws in their leagues (excepting their natural regional rivals).
Caveat: US MSAs not exactly comparable to Canadian CMAs.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_o...tistical_Areas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...reas_in_Canada
I'm afraid what makes TFC's success is the combo of a big market and the downtown stadium. Seattle is showing you that the SSS is secondary. I feel certain that if they could do it over, the league would have done nothing rather than put the NY, Chicago and LA SSSs in the burbs. Cruise the Fire boards and you'll see plenty of people wishing they were still at Soldier Field.
I'll go further. If the Argos hadn't blown it, and had remained in their partnership with MLSE and the CSA, and had been a part of BMO from the beginning....there'd be some grumbling on these boards, but fundamentally, TFC would be pretty close to what it is with BMO as an SSS.
Last edited by ensco; 03-06-2009 at 03:35 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
^^ You must take in consideration that USA measures their metro areas with a HUUUUUGE area. Make sure to compare the area too.
Great for Portland, :{ Vancouver...better luck in 2013 Ottawa
We usually agree, but I'd be willing to bet you that Ottawa could produce a viable market were it granted the team.
You're so fucking ignorant its unbelievable, you should look at some tapes of Lynx games. You honestly think it will be the same atmosphere when the Caps get into MLS?
I'd be glad to be wrong.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Portland = yes!
Vancouver = NO!
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I`d love to have a 80 dollar plane ticket to watch my reds kick some vancouver ass.
In defense to Ghost, have you ever been to Vancouver? I've lived there for 20 years and beleive me when I tell you MLS will not fly there.
I know what you're saying in comparing the Lynx but the difference in Toronto was you still had massive interest in professional soccer like when World cup is on, Euro's etc. that you don't even have in Vancouver. The demographics in Vancouver are mostly Asian and Canadian. Asians don't have a huge interest in soccer and the Canadians there are borderline Xenophobic about soccer.
really? soccer is big in asia and the world cup in Korea and Japan was massive.
People used to say the same things about Toronto. Ya, lots of people like soccer here, but people used to say "Torontonians just love the good old teams from the old country, they'll never support a lower quality league in Toronto".
They were proven wrong.
anyhow, MLS doesn't require Vancouver to have TFC-like success. Personally I don't expect Vancouver to succeed like TFC, but they'll do a helluva lot better than Columbass, Kansas Shitty, and Chivass. If we eliminated teams or cities because they couldn't or didn't have TFC's sucess, we wouldn't have a league.
I also think playing in a small stadium outside the main city proper hasn't allow the Whitecraps to prove they can get Montreal-like attendances. When your stadium only seats 5000 and it's not downtown, and in a lesser league, it's hard to build up audiences. People want top level soccer, and they want it in the city. My guess is if they put it in BC place or get that SSS, they'll easily draw 15000 people, which is about MLS average.
Last edited by rocker; 03-07-2009 at 10:35 AM.
I am excited about Vancouver because
(i) I think it is good for TFC
(ii) I have a soft spot for teams with NASL pedigrees/names (if Vancouver and Portland get in, that'll make it three in a row!)
I'm not sure how well they'd do at BC Place, I really think that could hurt it once the novelty wears off...but what the hell, Vancouver can't be worse than Chivas or Columbus
(btw Rocker I bet they'd draw 20,000-25,000 in BC Place in their first year, but that it would start falling after that...and that negative momentum is a killer in terms of perception)
I am not excited about Ottawa. I genuinely believe it would hurt the league. Ottawa won't even help MLS get even a Canadian TV deal, it's just not big enough.
Can you imagine what attendance would be for the Ottawa at Chivas, or Ottawa at Dallas game?
Last edited by ensco; 03-07-2009 at 10:54 AM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Expansion: Vancouver confirmed - report
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...Story/National
According to the Globe and Mail, an announcement will be made soon.
a report says its confirmed?
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I can't seem to hate on the whitecap as much... let's just hope they are not the vancouver grizzlies.
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RED PATCH BOYS
Lol, it's of the unofficially official variety.a report says its confirmed?
this is great news!
Nice! Bring'em on!!
I'm with Flush. I just don't have that hatred for Vancouver, or the Whitecaps. In fact (sacrilige I know), if one other team in the MLS has to win, I hope its them. Good on the ownership, now hopefully the city rallies around the team like we think they will. Can't wait for our chance to whipe the floor with them. Just please, no "naismith cup" stupidity.
I am pretty sure it will happen too what with this article and what Gerry Dobson said etc.
Prepare to kneel before us in 2011 Whitecaps.
I hate the Whitecraps... but i want them in the league so we have more canadian rivalries within MLS. I want to kick their asses 2 times in MLS every year, plus 2 times in the Voyageurs Cup
I get more up for these games against Canadian teams than for games against KC or other boring American sides.
Anyone more informed about footy/sport history in Vancouver, How likely is this to be a successful franchise?
I have no reason to doubt them. The G&M is a national newspaper, and the report comes from its BC bureau reporters, not the sports department. If it came from someplace like MLS Rumours, then I would doubt it.a report says its confirmed?
Congratulations to Vancouver, if its all true. Can't wait to see you on the field so that our boys in red can KICK YOUR FUCKING MISERABLE ASSES ALL OVER THE PITCH, YOU SUNZA...
Why, yes I'm still pissed off at them for last year at the CCL. Why do you ask?
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Vancouver was one of the few successful franchises in the NASL (along with Toronto). After the NASL's demise, they continued to have successful professional teams, including Whitecaps 2.0. It's an excellent market, will likely be like Seattle if they run things right.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
If Vancouver comes in to the league and hopefully not Ottawa we will still have a very thin pool of Canadian players from which to draw. The league rules for Canadian content is going to have to be revised. If Ottawa is the other team then we are really screwed: suddenly Adam Braz becomes a top Canadian prospect.
If both Vancouver and Portland are granted admission, the northwest rivalry between those two and Seattle will be INTENSE. MLS will be the only professional league that houses all three cities and hopefully that translates well in terms of fan support.
If this report is correct and only 1 team will be announced this month, while the announcement for the 2nd team won't be announced next month, then things are looking pretty good for Eugene and Ottawa.
I wonder if the MLS would just schedule TFC against Vancouver twice in regular season competition but have it count towards the Voyageurs Cup? This would eliminate 2 matches that would be added to an already loaded season. It would also have a double whammy effect in the MLS standings as well.I hate the Whitecraps... but i want them in the league so we have more canadian rivalries within MLS. I want to kick their asses 2 times in MLS every year, plus 2 times in the Voyageurs Cup
I think Vancouver would be more like TFC and draw from talent in the their area along with national prospects. Plus, BC has a very good youth soccer system already in place not to mention that the current Whitecaps have their own youth system. I don't think the drain on talent will be as harsh as it would be if Ottawa got the nod.
But you are right. Garber and the MLS need to address the Canadian talent situation and consider ALL players in North America as local.
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