Does the Puerto Rico (island) team have a "local" rival?Originally Posted by ccopela
Does the Puerto Rico (island) team have a "local" rival?
Cashcleaner, you seriously believe that drivel? Garber now making it up as he goes along. The only criterion is having $40 million.
It was never a "shoe in". If there's no centrally located stadium, I'm glad Barca/Claure pulled out. There's lots of evidence - it won't work there without it.
But it would be a fabulous market, done right.
Last edited by ensco; 03-05-2009 at 07:42 AM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
I don't understand why people think Vancouver is a good idea? Vancouver is a sleepy town that couldn't even support an NBA team. There is not the same interest in soccer there as in Ontario & Quebec. Plus, they're playing in BC Place. I grew up in Vancouver and lived there until recently, and let me tell you this will be a disaster for the league...
demographics differ from city to city...
vancity may be crap for the grizzlies (which contributed to its downfall by sucking the entire time it existed in vancouver), but there may be more people interested in football and whitecaps?
Trust me, I lived there for 20 years. There is tons of interest in basketball, no one cares about soccer. When I moved to Ontario I was amazed at how popular soccer was and how knowledgable people were compared to Vancouver.
In a school of 600 students, I had 2 friends that I could talk footy with, we weren't allowed to even mention it around other people. Whitecaps is considered a "huge" crowd if the get 1500 people, it's even worse than the Lynx was.
I just worry that TFC's success is blinding people's judgement into thinking Vancouver is like Toronto. They are almost like two completely different countries. MLS will not succeed in Vancouver.
I know someone else born and raised in Vancouver who says that BC PLace, even if it's renovated, will never be a success.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
He's right. I don't want to come across as a pessimist, because I actually beleived TFC would be a huge success from the get go, and I was one of the first season ticket holders. I knew this because I could sense the interest in Toronto and it was obvious to me it would be a big hit.
Vancouver is the complete opposite. It's a sleepy, sleepy town and the poeple do not like change or new things. BC place is huge & empty and very quiet (all the noise gets sucked out for some reason). Vancouver will be even more of an embarrasment than Kansas City or NYRB...
the renovations to BC Place are pretty radical though. they are even redoing the structure of the seating to make it closer to the field... and being outdoors should change the vibe.
if they can get nearly 50000 for a meaningless Beckham game, I think they can get 18000 for Whitecraps.
The key thing is to get the team first. Teams survive in this league with 10000-13000 attendance. Vancouver can do that no problem.
Once you get the team, you can work on a new stadium for a long time (look at how long current teams in KC, NY, and DC have been working to get new stadiums built) while still being in the league. And MLS won't contract you at 10000-13000 attendance as long as you have deep pockets and are willing to find a solution.
Vancouver can do that. They aren't the perfect bid in the perfect stadium, but no other expansion team is either, and many ownerships and stadiums already in MLS are imperfect anyways. For Canadian soccer, I say give it a shot. Get in, and see what happens. Can't hurt.
Last edited by rocker; 03-05-2009 at 10:07 AM.
What's this person's qualification other than being born there?
Lot's of people talk shit out there mouth.
The people actually supported the grizzlies. It was the management and ownership that fucked that up.
This feels exactly like a Gary Bettman circa 1996 quote. Come up with a whole bunch of b.s. reasons to cover the fact that the only issue is money and the Miami group wouldn't pay it."We are convinced Miami is a soccer market but we are not convinced it is an MLS market at this point and for the stability of the league we had to make sure we made a smart decision that didn't come back to haunt us later," he (Garber) said.
"I think someday, when our league is established as the league of all soccer fans in America, Miami will be in our family. But for now we are seeing more support and promise from the other (bidding) cities -- Portland, Vancouver, Ottawa and St. Louis."
"We didn't sense that same local buzz from the soccer community in Miami," he said.
While all of Garber's points may have a bit of truth in them, it's almost a given that Miami walked away from this deal and not MLS.
With all due respect, it's not "shit" to say that BC Place is not the best soccer venue. Most people who have watched a sporting event there would agree. If you think Giants stadium is bad, you aint seen nothin yet lol...
Will an MLS team work in Vancouver? Maybe... hopefully... but don't expect it to be anything like TFC.
You think people need "qualifications", I think people should use a spell checker.
Looks like we're both out of luck.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Absolutely true. In the end, owner Michael Heisley didn't even have the ticket phone lines manned so he could blame poor attendance on the city and move the team which is exactly what he did.
While the dome may be a detriment, let's hope that revamped facility will help. Hell, even in 1984 when the Whitecaps played a full year under the bubble, they averaged over 15k.
Let me guess. You were not old enough to be around when Vancouver, Seattle, and Portland had top-tier, professional, footy teams. There's a big difference between supporting a USL club and a club a step up. Toronto and Seattle's recent season ticket hauls is proof enough. Besides, Whitecap's USL attendance figures are hardly something to complain about. And who had one of the top attendance figures in NASL days? Vancouver and Seattle.
Vancouver has always been a soccer town and it's currently the oldest continuous club in Canada/US. If anyone needs, and deserves a franchise, it's this city.
It's about time the Pacific Northwest gets some respect. It's these 3 clubs that have been successful in USL and have maintained a core fanbase for over 30 years where the rest of North America has failed. Most cities cannot compare to these 3 cities. I think some younger people in Vancouver aren't old enough for one to understand soccer's history in Van and two, people in eastern parts of NA can have a big misunderstanding on how popular the sport is in the PNW.
Moderator
Agreed. Baseball in Seattle in on the decline (compare average game attendence of around 28,700 in 2008 to 43,700 in 2002) and basketball is no more aside from Portland (who are also falling behind slightly in terms of attendence compared to the 1990s and early 2000s). Soccer is in a great position to fill the void of summer sports not covered already by the Lions and Seahawks.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
You guessed wrong. My dad took me to Whitecaps games in the NASL days, and my neighbour was a famous player on the whitecaps who I won't mention his name out of courtesy (also palace and spurs - anyone take a guess?).
I'm not saying there's no history and they're not deserving, I'm just worried everyone has high expectations of the Vancouver franchise, when it's obvious it will struggle. Remember, New York used to sell out in the NASL hey-days and look at that market now.
Remember, you have an idiot like Bob Lenarduzzi making decisions, no interest in professional soccer, no large immigrant population from soccer countries, no stadium conducive to MLS soccer. IMO this is a big mistake giving a franchise to Vancouver although I hope it works out.
I wouldnt say giving a MLS franchise to Vancouver is a big mistake, although everyone has to understand what the crowd at WhitecRap games is like. No chants, no singing, can't stand. Hell, if it wasnt for West Coast Reds stirring up some rivarly it would have been nothing more then taking the kids to the park for some cotton candy (which was given away after the players boarded the bus). Don't expect too much from these guys just cuz they have a Canadian MLS team.
Oh, and for those of you who need "credentials" I'm a "BCian", still in BC.
- West Coast Reds
they can't do worse than KC, San Jose, Columbus, Dallas, Colorado or Chivas in attendance, I would think.
also, nobody knew TFC fans would be as crazy as they are, so I wouldn't rule out some new supporters groups doing the same for Whitecraps.
Yea i guess i forgot to calculate the bandwagon jumpers for this summer. Oh well, we'll just have to SING LOUDER!
Out of the last 4 i guess im not opposed to Vancouver getting in. They do have a history and i believe that having Seattle in will stir up old rivalries. Id prefer the likes of Montreal and I do believe that Portland can support a team (they get huge turn outs for womens national games and really have nothing else going for them from what ive read). Id prefer to see a team in the east as well as one in the west adn to be honest i think Ottawa is a big fail. I guess i wouldnt be opposed to St Louis (id still see it as a western team) but i dont think they have the money for it... I guess itd be dope to see how the Portland-Seattle-Vancouver games would go (makes me think of Middlesborough, Sunderland and Newcastle). I do think the 'rivalry' between Van and TFC are a bit played up. Outside fo being canadian there really isnt much there.
That TFC game ar swanguard was a fucking joke... the 6 TFC fans were louder than everyone else in the damn stadium...all they did was chant "Lets go whitecraps!"... no chants , no tifos nothing...
edit: I forgot that they did throw 3 streamers during a corner kick...it was cute
i think having a SSS and a good atmosphere right from the get go is a big part of being a success. I think they are expanding MLS to quickly. I dont see what the huge rush is to get all these new teams in the league before they even have stadiums built. I say just let the teams like Portland and Montreal in who got stadiums and tell Vancouver or Miami they can join the league as soon as they get a stadium built. I think its better waitting and doing things right the nrushing into things and running an unsuccessful team.
I think Vancouver can get 20k a game, but i dont think 20k is a good atmosphere in a huge stadium like BC Place. Not having a great atmosphere might make Vancouver lose alot of fans from the start.
Last edited by james; 03-06-2009 at 03:01 AM.
i think New York will get better attendence in the near future when there new stadium is done being built. Not only is it gorgious looking but its also closer to Manhatten and on a main transit route. As for Vancouver i really think they shouldnt get a team untill they get a SSS built. I think playing in BC Place is gonna be like playing at Giant Stadium like the Red Bulls.
Remember everyone thought giving a franchise to Toronto was a mistake! Remember Toronto drew a lot less than the Whitecaps do!
95% of TFC fans didnt support the Lynx. There are probably a lot of fans in Vancouver who dont support the Whitecaps but would support MLS.
This is true. Another thing to note is the success of the Seattle bid. Seattle leads MLS in season ticket sales, even though it only averaged 3,400 fans per game in USL-1 last season. Clearly the success of a team in one league does not depend on the success of that team in another league.
about time you wrote something I agree with.
I don't think MLSE took the attitude, "can it work?" but rather the attitude "How do we make this work"
I think this is Melnyk's attitude too, and we need to see more of it.
I believe that handled creatively and intelligently, most large cities in North America could succeed in finding a reasonable soccer market.
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