For all you know Seattle finishes higher in the standings this year then we did our expansion year. They sure do seem to be off to a better start, WITH or without a DP.Originally Posted by TorontoBlades
For all you know Seattle finishes higher in the standings this year then we did our expansion year. They sure do seem to be off to a better start, WITH or without a DP.
what do you mean by "off to a better start"? season hasn't even started yet.. not sure where you came up with that assessment.
You can't tell me that they seem a hell of alot more organized then we were in our first offseason. They have a better roster compared to that pathetic roster we had going into game 1.
Sure, the fact that they were a USL team before hand gives them a head start, and all I'm saying is that this guy is writing off Seattle because their DP is hurt for the first month of the season. Maybe he should wait until they actually play a game before he writes them off.
I agree with this. Way too much hype around what a great start Seattle are off to.
At this point in 2007 TFC had 3/4 cornerstone/valuable players:
Brennan, Robinson, and O'Brien, and maybe Sutton
plus a bunch of guys who didn't work out:
Mulrooney (turned into Dunivant), Welsh, Braz, Reda, Casey, Pozniak,
plus a number 1 overall pick (Edu)
Now look at Seattle's roster. Obviously no one knows how this will work out, and they have a nice group of prospects (King, Evans, Ianni, Nyassi)....but are there 3/4 cornerstone players, who will be there in two years, on this list? I would bet against it.
http://www.soundersfc.com/Team/Roster.aspx
Last edited by ensco; 02-22-2009 at 10:54 AM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Kasey Keller, Nate Jacqua, Tyrone Marshall and I have no idea how you don't mention Freddy Montero or Zakuani who was 1st overall pick.
On paper, this is by far a better roster then we had our first year. If you disagree that's ok, we'll just have to wait and see.
I rather have Ljumberg play, and have Montero sit out. Montero has the ability to tear our backline apart (our current backline I mean).
Only guy who excites me on your list is Montero. You're right - typo on my part. We had nothing like that (not sure any other MLS team ever has either, I'll give you/them that). But as for the rest? meh. Jaqua and Marshall are journeymen. Keller will only be useful for a year or two - he's a stopgap.
Last edited by ensco; 02-22-2009 at 01:03 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
seattle has a bunch of nobodies and castoffs as a central core, with a few old, formerly star players sprinkled in with a couple good prospects.
they have to prove themselves capable first.
Sounders FC shuts out Whitecaps 4-0
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/..._sounders.html
I have no doubt that seattle will prove this year that they are a better team then we ever were our first year. How anyone can argue that they aren't better on paper is beyond me.
^^ I am one to agree with you. Seattle looks good on paper.
Well, you're including Nate Jaqua and Tyrone Marshall on your list of big-time names, and some other people aren't buying it.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
People! Is anyone surprised?
Seattle are fools.
“We changed the entire league’s opinion of the viability of soccer in North America. And then we blew it because we chickened out." —Tim Leiweke
My issue is not with whether Seattle is gonna be better than TFC's 25-point first season. If they don't get 25 points they are pathetic. We had lots of injuries, and then San Jose bested our total yet still finished last. Finishing last is finishing last, no matter how many points you get.
My problem is with people who are predicting Seattle will be a good team (not in the bottom or last place). I've seen people think Seattle will grab that 8th playoff spot! Those people are assessing Seattle too much on hype and not on reality... the reality is Seattle has almost no proven players... Even on paper, Seattle's team still looks like shit. Let me explain:
Proven players you can count on (if not injured)
----------------------------------------------------
Marshall
Keller
Ljungberg
Vagenas -- let go in expansion draft by worst team in league (tied)
Riley -- let go in expansion draft by worst team in league (tied)
These guys have played significant numbers of games and have been starters. But you need more than 5 guys to field a team... so....
Unproven players you can't count on yet
------------------------------------
Eylander -- backup keeper to Keller with no MLS experience, just USL
Evans -- played only 1 full season in MLS, let go in expansion draft
Ianni -- played about 10 games a year in his MLS career
Wahl -- played about 10 games a year in his MLS career
Alonso -- cuban defector who has never played in MLS, just 1 season of USL + Cuban league
Le Toux -- never played in MLS, but very good in USL
Sturgis -- played about 10 games a year in his MLS career, let go in expansion draft
Smith -- played on one season in MLS, mostly as an ineffective sub with TFC, let go in expansion draft and most TFC fans laughed that he was chosen over the other Smith
King -- one season in MLS, mostly as a sub, let go in expansion draft
Montero -- never played in MLS, but has great promise
Zakuani -- college player in a league where college players almost never make an impact right away, never played in MLS yet
Jacqua -- journeyman striker, 1 goal every 3.78 games in his career, which ain't top notch, let go in two different expansion drafts
Nyassi -- a kid who's hardly played pro ever
Graham -- USL player, failed to stick with MLS, playing just 29 MLS games over 3-4 seasons before retreating back to USL twice
This is just a quick glance at the resumes of these guys. Honestly I have seen almost none of them play with my own eyes. But there's a lot of risk in that group. My guess is most of these guys will not improve significantly, but they'll get playing time cuz Seattle has no choice. But if you're starting unproven players at 6 positions every night, you're screwed. And if, god forbid, Ljundberg gets hurt (he's already missing the first few games of the season) and another of the "proven" guys.. then you are going to have to go down the depth chart and play guys who aren't even deserving of sitting on an MLS bench.
I think their best hope is they find chemistry fast, all the "provens" play all season and perform well, Montero proves himself to be a great scorer, Jacqua increases his scoring rate, they find 4 other guys from the "unprovens" who are solid MLS starters, and they don't have any injuries. Even if that's the case, they'll still be near the bottom. If some of these things don't come true, they'll be at the bottom like every other expansion team recently.
Last edited by rocker; 02-23-2009 at 01:43 AM.
Yeah right, that's exactly what I said. That these guys are big time players and they'll take Seattle to a cup this year.
If you just read the fucking thread you'll realize that my only argument is that they are off to a better start then we ever were in year 1. People are crucifying Seattle because they signed a DP who could be hurt all season. All I'm saying is that it's their first year in the MLS, they have promising stars, and they have done a better job at signing players then we did our first year. Even if Ljunberg doesn't play a single game in the MLS.
BTW - Seattle is 5-1 in pre-season action. On paper, AND pre-season stats show that they would've crushed our first team ever.
I read your thread. I say Brennan, Robinson, O'Brien and Mulrooney are as good as the top 4 or 5 guys on Seattle, which includes Jaqua and Marshall, neither of whom I think much of. You seem to think this is insane, and are going over the top about the whole thing. I got it.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
....if a team being good on paper meant half a shit...Spurs would be playing in Europe every year
pre-season scorelines never mean anything...
I mean, TFC played two 50 minute games and then played a college team.. yet somehow the scores mean something???
Even the biased journalist who does the video reports for the Sounders said that Vancouver clearly did not look fit enough yet to really challenge.
Anyhow, call me when Seattle is winning games that count
Pre-season?
HA HA HA HA
Pre-season means NOTHING
yup... don't forget the winner of the Charleston Challenge Cup last year, finishing ahead of NYRB and TFC was.................. San Jose Earthquakes!!!
6 goals for, 1 against... undefeated... They even beat the Red Bulls 3-0 in that cup... sadly, it did not lead to expansion team greatness.
You are right, they are as good. No one is arguing that. It's the rest of the roster that makes them better then TFC's in year 1. Aside from the names you just named on TFC, who else is still on the team? probably no one. The rest of our roster was made up of loser USL players with no promise. Seattle has some prospect in there that we wish we had in year 1.
Our first TFC team would'nt have beat orange pilons. THAT means something.
They sure did better then we did our first year didn't they?
No we both didn't qualify for shit. I would say they actually did worse, mortgaging their future (draft picks) for players to make them marginally better and still out of the playoffs in their first year. Although we were crap in our first year, we laid down a foundation and a plan that would make us solid going forward...
Zakuani -- college player in a league where college players almost never make an impact right away, never played in MLS yet
What about Edu and Wynne?
Freddy is damaged goods ... he will play 1/3 of the season & get paid all $. Remind you of someone? He's too sexy for Milan (I know bad hint)
Peace
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