^This man is speaking all kinds of truth lately. We’re definitely flirting with half a season of pure survival mode.
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Yes, and to be fair any areas of “inaction” requiring attention seem to be followed by action. It’s not like Curtis where inaction is followed by silence followed by promises things are happening. They have done a huuuge rehaul here in one window. It’s almost to the point where I question if they can do any more this period. There’s already so many changes.
So now we need a LB, RB, DM and RW just to fill out the roster and the season is starting in 3 weeks.
My expectations:
We were 26th out of 27 teams in the league last year, and turned over the coach and GM. We were never obviously going to be “ready” to compete with the best teams on opening day.
I think BB won’t have “his” team in place for two more windows (ie 2023).
I am spending the year hoping we are competitive, and other than that mostly watching Osorio and worrying about his readiness for Qatar. That is how I am spending 2022.
(Will be doing the same with Miller and Johnston for Montreal :yikes::yikes: and MAK)
Portu, jloome, and Ensco, you guys are framing up a pretty interesting debate here. Specifically, how well (or poorly as the case may be) are we going to do in the first half of the season (We have 17 matches before July 1)?
I wonder if your opposing views are a matter of glass-half-empty-vs-full or whether it’s a matter of short term vs the medium and longer term.
Portu is suggesting the short term is shaping up to be ugly. If we were start the season today, with what we’ve got, I’d wager Portu is right. We do look to be a worse side than the one that fought for the wooden spoon just a few short months ago.
Clearly, the unknown is what our roster looks like on Feb 26 and whether there are a few more recruits coming after the season starts (let’s hope so).
But just for the sake of argument, let’s take stock. To avoid the home-supporter optimism bias I’ll treat unconfirmed departures as done deals, and unconfirmed arrivals as just that, unconfirmed. And, I’ll ignore the churn of depth-pieces for this. Here we go:
Departures:
- Altidore
- Solteldo (I wasn't a fan, but love him or hate him, he was our best player last year)
- Delgado
- Lawrence
- Morrow
- Laryea
- Auro
- Gonzalez
Arrivals
- Salcedo
- that’s it, just Salcedo
There is no possible XI we could field today that is anything other than far weaker than last year’s rag tag collection. So, if we’re done adding talent until the July window opens, it’s likely going to be a soul-destroying front half to the season. Personally, I'd have to look away if this were the case.
I think this is all Portu is saying. We’ve got work to do. Now, like others, I fully believe Bradley has identified the specific players with specific attributes he wants and the collective recruiting and accounting team is working overtime to get things done. I’m optimistic. And excited. And I love the additions of Salcedo and Insigne. And I like every rumour I’m hearing. And I’m sure Bradley has his eyes on some wingbacks.
But….. it’s February 5 already. So in the words of Roy Rogers, giddyup.
You're missing a lot here. We've brought in Shane O'Neill, Lukas MacNaughton, Greg Ranjitsingh, Deandre Kerr, Luca Petrasso. Even ignoring Ranjitsingh, it's reasonable for O'Neill, MacNaughton, Kerr and maybe Petrasso to be involved materially this season.
Plus, if you're including Auro/Lawrence as departures (despite being unnannounced), you could also likely include Gio and Jimenez as an arrival if you want.
The yutes will play this year - I fully expect Priso to be a nailed on starter by mid season.
Yes, for sure you're right about all this. I was just trying to emphasize known changes to first-choice starting XI, which I confess does have me a little uneasy as it sits today. But I agree, there has been a notable upgrade to the depth-pieces all over the pitch, and the expected signings also represent exciting upgrades with a lot of prime years in red. I'm bullish.
has much has i like auro s tatts.i think he is kinda meh,doesnt really bring much on the O side,and not athletic enough to play BB style,i rather keep lawrence if we had a choice.
Pretty much this - I think the pessimism comes from a lot of new, unknown variables plus some straight up nostalgia of players of years past doing well a few years ago. I'm glad we cleaned house and I think this team's going to have an exciting learning curve in front of them rather than the same old guys eating up the same old minutes.
Unless these kids we have play above what should reasonably be expected from them, the first half of the season is about staying in the playoff race until Insigne, Criscito and potential DP 2 can arrive. How quickly Jimenez and Salcedo settle will decide a lot.
im sure they have a few https://www.justinbuzzard.net/wp-con...n-the-fire.jpgof these
Much as I generally agree with jloome, I mostly agree with portu on this. I just predict I am going to be less vexed about a poor start than he will.
I don’t think there is any way to accelerate a strategic overhaul like this.
One possible way we could all be wrong: we may have been a lot better than our record last year, and getting rid of unhappy people is always good for any locker room.
Agreement??
In all seriousness though, I do believe that this team will *eventually* get sorted out. My primary concern is that they end up bombing the first half of next year irreparably (and unnecessarily) because they are so slow to move on things. I personally don’t see why it takes so long to finalize every deal, even re-signing players. This has been an issue I have complained about since Manning joined, and was likely exacerbated by Ali Curtis’ arrival. They take ages to identify, negotiate and confirm roster moves. And there are too many instances to blame Covid or situational BS every. single. time.
My pure speculation is that the front office is understaffed and, after watching them fuck up obvious due diligence on the Pozuelo deal, underskilled (courtesy edit: not for normal responsibilities just this kind of work). The other end of things is I think Manning is spread far too thin between Argos/TFC/general commercial activity and at the same time is trying to anally manage details that should be delegated to a dedicated and experienced individual at management level. (I believe much of this has been pointed out by you before on the Manning thread.)
Anyway, the frustration in this is that if you’ve got this level of budget and the months upon months to capacity plan, you should have invested to mitigate your risks. This is not a league where you have to bomb out while you rebuild. And this is not a business where deals move slowly, unless (1) you don’t know how to do them, (2) you don’t have time and/or (3) are anally retentive with QA.
This is not true.
a) You have an entire scouting department to be ready to present actionable recommendations from the date of BB’s appointment. As well as moves that are so bleedingly obvious and overdue. BB appointment does not prevent them from planning and anticipating risks. Insigne move also began far before appointment.
b) Deals in football are 24/7, negotiations happen all the time regardless of contractual year or transfer window status
c) I am not personally familiar with procedure for dealing in MLS trade windows, but for transfers/pre-contracts/buy-outs/loans these negotiations are again year round and the transfer window is simply the date by which the player is able to register with his new club (generally). TFC could agree a transfer for a German 16 year old in October 2022 and have him join July 2025 theoretically, the rules on movement are looser than some think, but annoying to familiarize and understand in practice which leads to the impression of a strict regulatory environment.
A couple points to add to the mix.
- Bob Bradley started a franchise team of players all from other teams as one of the best franchise starts and arguably one of the best teams in the league for their first couple seasons. A big mix up players is not a major risk given his history.
- our weakest spot last year was defence, we still managed to score and the only goal scorer (on paper) we really lost so far is Altidore. So on paper we are stronger by A LOT in defence and barely weaker in the goal scoring perspective.
- we are allowing the manager to mould his team with the type of players, and it appears the types of personalities he wants. Armas was given a squad designed for an scenic road and he tried to play them like a drag race car. I am glad he failed fast, but the lack of payer in/out was not a good thing for success.
I will concur with the side saying we are better on paper. I am truly shocked that anyone can see the changes so far and is complaining. I can see wanting more, who doesn’t, but saying it hasn’t been good enough is unfair in my opinion.
Let me put it this way, if you are a fan of 90% of any of our competition, you are jealous of our offseason.
I respect where you’re coming from but I think the difference between our thinking is that I view this on a 4 month timeline (ongoing) as opposed to since January. I don’t think our midfield (subtraction only) or backline look any better right now (no fullbacks???). The keeping is a major issue and the frontline will be much worse off without any major quality there and Shaff being the only starting quality player who can play along a front three right now. Different strokes maybe, but I think they are incredibly slow to make things happen for whatever reason. Insigne absolutely impressive, but signing him can’t be used as a shield for not being able to field a competitive (not amazing just competitive) team by end of Feb. Hopefully I’m wrong about everything.
FTR I don’t think they’re doing nothing I just think they’re doing everything very very slowly. Jozy has been a thing for over a year and just now is getting resolved (but obviously still no confirmation because reasons I guess?)
Assuming we bring in Jiiminez, I'll bet you a beer we're in a better spot come June than we were last season.
Our biggest problem last year wasn't our offence, meagre as it was. It was that we started every game by giving up a stupid goal in the first 20.
Salcedo and Mavinga in the middle, O'Neill (a regular start for Seattle) as an option? We're instantly better with that.
Soteldo had six assists from open play (four were "secondary" assists). His four goals and six assists weren't a whole lot better than Jacob Shaffelburg's three and three.
Jozy had four goals all season.
Lawrence hasn't actually gone anywhere yet, we're all speculating that based on one rumour a week ago.
Auro hasn't either, but even if he does, I suspect we won't get much worse from O'Neill and the kids on that side.
In the middle, Priso is back, and I rate him at least as useful as a DM as Delgado was as a number eight, given how his quality slid over the last two seasons.
Pozuelo is back and fit, after an offseason with a team-supplied personal trainer.
The only massive loss so far is Richie.
And to top all that off, we have an actual fucking coach, not Chris Armas.
If we started this year with...
------------------Westberg------------------
O'Neil----Salcedo--------Mavinga----Lawrence
------------------Priso/Bradley------------------------
------------Osorio------Pozuelo/Bradley-------------
--Jiminez/Achara--------------------Shaffelburg
------------Jiminez/Peruzza/Akinola (They're saying April but maybe earlier)
....that's not a whole lot less strong than last year. O'Neil is preferred centally but can do the job wide and is an excellent defender.
Outside of Soteldo, that's not far off what we had last year at this time, except we didn't have Poz back, we weren't getting Ayo back in two months and Richie added some speed wide.
But on paper, that's a stronger defensive unit by a FRIGGIN MILE. I think everyone's forgetting what a total bomscare the pairing of Gonzalez/Zavaleta was.
Add in an actual coach who can teach them to play cohesively and... yeah, I think people are badly overreacting on how much we've got to work with.
I think we might actually be better off.
So much doom predicted. Guess last years team scorched some people’s eyes.
Call me glass half full guy but I think back to the start last year and remember how good the kids and fresh bodies did to start the season. I don’t think this year is going to be anything different.
Someone said there’s like 10 exits and only Salcedo brought in. Simply not true as others have pointed out. I’d even say Poz is kinda an addition as he was nowhere to be found last year. The younger guys for sure have taken a step forward and having a respected coach that isn’t going to try some convoluted system that doesn’t suit the players available will also go a long ways. They could also add someone else before the season as well.
Let’s not forget some of the subtractions (Omar) likely make us better too.
Regardless I’ll bet anyone a Guinness that the team is .500 after their first dozen games. Salcedo, Poz, BB and subtracting stupidity from the former bench boss is an addition that can’t be understated.
jloome,
A thoughtful reply to what is being discussed. Although, I do share portu's feeling of unease.
I do not disagree with your lineup.
Semantics... maybe I might adjust it to...
-----------------------Westberg------------------------
--O'Neil--------Salcedo--------Mavinga----{Lawrence}--
-----------------------Bradley--------------------------
--------------Priso-----------------Osorio--------------
--Pozuelo/Jimenez/Achara------------------Shaffelburg--
-----------------Jimenez/Peruzza/[Akinola]-------------
Perhaps Igor comes in exchange for Auro and O'Neill moves to the left? Then a little less problematic.
Trying to be glass half-full, understand addition by subtraction, but as they say "it's the hope that kills you".
I previously posted in this thread 19JAN25 Pg.131 #3909...
Maybe I'm numb from last season; anyone really think we're going to be worse than that shitshow?
I'd be happier if we had some more wide right speed -- we do need to replace Richie properly -- and that we knew what the deal with Lawrence was.
But if Jiminez works out and we can get a few first half-season goals from Ayo/Achara/Peruzza, why would we be worse? I don't get that idea.
It's Feb. 5. We're starting the season and month early, but we stilll have three weeks to add a body or two, and even then, we know it's going to take a month or two to coalesce around whatever Bradley's teaching. But the young players are also a year older and wiser; JMR and Nelson spent the last two months training with some of the better clubs in Europe. And we have the lock-down center back we've been after since Drew Moor left.
Thie could be why Salcedo is being reported as a DP. If 3rd DP is on 1.6 we can have 3U22s. If we get another DP and buy Salcedo down, we can only have 1U22 (Akinola). I guess the club is weighing the benefits. Do we want one more really good DP or two more very good U22s.
Good discussion, I feel the anxiousness based on 2018 & 2022 results, the difference between then and now is hopefully we have a solid re-build/reinforce plan. Portu is not wrong, there are so many new pieces and gaps in this squad that it will be a challenge to gel. There are 17 games before the summer recruits come in.
I am optimistic that silence is not a bad thing, clearly there is stuff going on and i would prefer to hear rumors from outside than to hear 2 weeks and nothing happens. Auro is concerning because i felt defence had time to train together (this is an unneeded distraction) but I continue to believe we are far better off today than November.
We may be playing ugly football before we play better, i hope that is not the case or at least not too long. And the FO keeps the pedal on the floor to fill the holes.
Napoli currently playing vs. Venezia, and Insigne is on the field.
His class is obvious & his defensive work rate is unquestionable. Every defender shows Insigne to the left but they also know how to cut off his options when he goes left. My question is whether the lack of MLS defensive rigor will allow Insigne to succeed more going to his left then he does right now.
Without any doubt, the Spock in me obviously agrees with you and doesn't think we will be worse than that shitshow of last season.
However, the Ian Hunter in me gives pause with some unease.
If you would have advocated a shitshow scenario to me at the beginning of last season... on paper... I would have likely scoffed at that notion.
Possession with a purpose verses pressing, given MBradley's unique relationship with Armas, he obviously drank some of the first sips of that latter Kool-Aid.
Maybe it was time for a coaching/style change. Maybe the dressing room tuned Vanney out.
Maybe it was a situation of 'the grass is always greener on the other side' tactical approach wise.
Maybe enough players thought they could manage the new style. Not so, and Altidore was only the first to publicly crack.
I also get and agree with the Bradley Inc.'s command and control, team first, internal and philosophical football approach.
To me it seems the whole back lines, defensive players are/were suspect for BBradley and at one point or another this season under movement rumour.
Some of remaining whom still are.
Realistically, I believe there has been enough significant action and turnover disruption to maybe effect any immediate transitional gelling of the teams playing which in turn may affect any TFC playoff ambitions for this season.
I'm incredibly excited to watch this team progress. Youth will get a chance; we have a decent shot at defensive stability; might see a cameo from Seba; goals from Peruzza; JJ two - lots of fun and real potential
This is probably the first year in a long time that I have no idea what to expect from the team.
I feel like JJ/Pozuelo connection can be something the team relies on in the early stretch of the season
Even just having Poz fit for the start of the season is massive.
Based on the general tone of discussion, I predict many of you will be pleasantly surprised with the team's record by the time Insigne arrives.
God help us but if Bono is still starting, something is terribly effed up.
If Seattle can me mediocre for half a season and hit the league hard post-summer signings, I don’t see why can’t do the same.
I don’t think if you took last years team with a proper coach they’d have made playoffs (as much as Armas made it worse). Let’s wear the fact we suck for a moment and seem to be trying to work our way back up. With our resources we can rebound faster than most but I wouldn’t expect instant success.
Having things still to fix opening day isn’t an indictment of management. Only so much that can be done in a single window and we’ve already done a lot.