Match Day 14 - TFC @ Van Friday May 31 10pm - We're gonna need

I legitimately believe we won’t win a game till the transfer window is open. Can you imagine what this team will look like once Altidore, Oso, Bradley, Morgan etc leave for the Gold Cup?

At least last year we could still score and create. Now we concede at the same rate, and other than one guy, nobody has a fucken clue offensively.

This is going to be a long month and a half. Curtis better sign 3 quality players the first fucken day. I would say 4, but I know that ain’t happening.

P.S Boyd making $200’000 is the biggest waste of money in team history. I’d rather play an academy kid, than pay that man $50,000

Wow! What an exhilarating match!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Auzzy

Only problem, Vancouver didn't deserve it either. The kind of game where both teams should get zero points.

---

Yeah, I think sometimes we forget how cruddy the other teams are too.

Three good things out of that game :

Fraser is a decent DM.

Ciman with a decent game.

I think we replace Delgado with Osorio and win that game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Auzzy

As the breakaway was developing (before the penalty), I saw Ciman and somebody else watching before they started sprinting back. What is that: arrogance? Cluelessness? Lack of conditioning or motivation?

---

It was Zavaleta. There were three defenders back with two just watching

Bad things :

Boyd

Delgado

Injuries

Slow defence

Unwillingness to move the ball quickly in or fire it at the net

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OgtheDim

Yeah, I think sometimes we forget how cruddy the other teams are too.

Three good things out of that game :

Fraser is a decent DM.

Ciman with a decent game.

I think we replace Delgado with Osorio and win that game.

---

I don't agree with the last one. Osorio is better than Delgado, but he's also slower. He would have slowed the game down even more (and done less defensively). What's slower than the snails pace this game was running at?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Auzzy

Only problem, Vancouver didn't deserve it either. The kind of game where both teams should get zero points.

---

This!
The match was a disgrace.

These kind of MLS "performances" are demonstrating again and again that MLS is lightyears back from the 10 best footy national competitions of the world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OgtheDim

Bad things :

Boyd

Delgado

Injuries

Slow defence

Unwillingness to move the ball quickly in or fire it at the net

---

This last one is happening forever at TFC.
At this point I think this aspect is impossible to change until Vanney is sacked. No matter he always says at interviews after games that the team need to play faster... he can't motivate them to play faster.

Wow, I missed the Boyd chance during the game, just saw it on the highlights. That was... a truly embarrassing lack of coordination.

I refuse to believe we scouted him at all. Curtis knew his name, knew he'd be cheap and his reputation fit the playing style of Ricketts.

He legitimately looks worse than Spencer, and the minutes we gave him were already a complete waste versus Hamilton's development. Hamilton, Akinola, hell Shaffelburg too should all be ahead of him in the depth chart.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OgtheDim

Yeah, I think sometimes we forget how cruddy the other teams are too.

Three good things out of that game :

Fraser is a decent DM.

Ciman with a decent game.

I think we replace Delgado with Osorio and win that game.

---

The only thing I would add though: Vancouver was tactically smarter. MDS knows that Altidore and Pozuelo can score goals if given the space. He knows what his team is capable of, and their limits. He's trying to get his team to settle down after turmoil. They played accordingly. On the balance of play, it looked like Vancouver was the more likely team to win, despite TFC's possession and other stats.

this roster is awful right now...its not a playoff roster,we need at least 4 new starters.Fraser was my MOTM,i would like to see him play with bradley.sit delgado the field goal kicker and just cut boyd,there is no point.i rather have a tfc 2 player

Bad points:

Boyd (if that's a typical Curtis signing we now know why he was out of a job so long). Boyd shouldn't even dress. But has Curtis even provided Vanney with any other options? (Hamilton ain't it, although he would have scored that chance Boyd missed).

The turf: two of our players get injured from that substandard carpet.

The ref: how he refused to review an obvious penalty is beyond me. He stole a "W" from us.

The "entertainment" value of this slow motion match. Only picked up at the end.

Curtis better have 3-4 decent players ready to sign on day one of the transfer window.

I thought the 3-5-2 was the right call given what we knew going into the game.
They play 3 DMs who don't go forward much in front of 5 defenders.


If we had somebody in the middle more incisive beyond Poz and Altidore, we cause those 3 DMs more issues.

Boyd was not good enough. Can't miss sitters like that but he also had no touch.

DeLeon & Laryea tried on the right but Justin Morrow just isn't offensivly good enough anymore. Great defender in the 3-5-2 but too slow to get into spaces where his crosses could do something.

Delgado is decent defensively but on attack, he's no threat to make the pass or take a shot (that was his best shot of the season).

Also getting really annoyed with NOBODY trying the passes into the forwards making quick runs. You have to try those occasionally just to keep the CBs & DMs honest.

To much attempting to be perfect - which Vanney has continually called out.

I don't know what Fraser needs to do to get just a little more foot speed. That's probably the biggest issue with his game right now. He's got all the other tools than an extra half step would make a such a big difference. Maybe lose a bit of weight, get a running coach, whatever.

Just watched the highlights and agree that Boyd's time here is done. He isn't what he used to be and his confidence is pretty destroyed and I don't think he has the character to come back from that.

As for Delgado, he didn't look that bad on the highlights. The one player who crystalized in my mind that he should be gone from TFC (besides Boyd) is Zavaleta. Look on the MLS website at the highlights at the 0:30 mark: Reyna turns Zavaleta into a pylon and the chase is on. Focus on Zavaleta. Look at his body language midway through the run: He. Just. Gives. Up. That sequence just made me realize he has no desire to get better. As he gives up, who continues the chase even though he started further behind the play? Delgado. I'll take Marky and drop Zavs as soon as a decent depth CB becomes available. I expect players to give their all on the pitch, even if they aren't as talented as others. I didn't see that from Zavaleta.

Liam Fraser played well. Probably the best player on the pitch for us tonight.

I don’t think Delgado played super poorly; he’s actually pretty good defensively, but the end product isn’t really there. Does Vanney not make him practice shooting?

Pozo was all right but there was never any space for him to operate.

Jozy seemed like he was playing how he’d play had he been paired with Seba, not Boyd. He was further back trying to start plays and even getting in some defensive work, but I don’t think that’s the best way for him to play when our option up top is Boyd.

Moor showing why he’s pretty much cooked. Mavinga hurt again. Ciman wasn’t a disaster but was misplacing passes all night. Zavaleta meh.

Westberg looked okay. Deleon as well, but we really have problems at LB/RB. Morrow has slowed down too much, usually loses the ball to the goal line instead of making the cross, crosses are not terribly good (and playing for corners when we have terrible setpieces isn’t a solid strategy), rarely beats defenders anymore. He looks completely different from 2017. Laryea was okay but not much impact, and now injured. Hamilton probably touched the ball 5 times, so jury’s out.

Even if Boyd was a footballer at one point, he’s not anymore. He’s completely one dimensional and doesn’t seem to possess any of the qualities you’d want in a backup striker let alone someone starting. If you want cheap (he’d better be cheap) depth, sign a kid who scored some goals or shows promise. Even someone like Luke Moore demonstrated some aspect of understanding the concept of this sport and could put the ball in the net once in a while. Even Big Ben recorded an assist. Ricketts scored a bunch of times and saved us some games... we’ve had lots of poor quality strikers in general, but Boyd has no place in “MLS 3.0.”

Our physios and medical need a checkup considering the number of injuries sustained over the last year and a half, and the constant re-injuries.

We collected a point in one of the worst games I’ve watched in ages, but this team is far too slow, far too dependent on individual performances, missing far too many pieces to play proper possession football, and far from winning the cup even if we do make the playoffs. We’re back to never winning if a team parks the bus (even if down 1-2 men).

Vanney didn’t seem very interested. He made an adjustment today, but you may as well just play anyone else instead of Boyd. Maybe there’s something none of us have seen? The commentators both opposition and our own seem to think he’s a dangerous, aerial threat and a strong, fast, athletic player. He isn’t any of these things.

Curtis needs to give his head a shake for his performance in the last window, however difficult it was, and for signing off on Boyd. I’d rather have an Oduro or Ricketts type player with absolutely no technique and the touch of an enraged hippo; at least “gotta go fast” players add some excitement to the playing the ball backwards and sideways through molasses while the opposing team sits back until a weaker player makes a mistake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Initial B

Just watched the highlights and agree that Boyd's time here is done. He isn't what he used to be and his confidence is pretty destroyed and I don't think he has the character to come back from that.

As for Delgado, he didn't look that bad on the highlights. The one player who crystalized in my mind that he should be gone from TFC (besides Boyd) is Zavaleta. Look on the MLS website at the highlights at the 0:30 mark: Reyna turns Zavaleta into a pylon and the chase is on. Focus on Zavaleta. Look at his body language midway through the run: He. Just. Gives. Up. That sequence just made me realize he has no desire to get better. As he gives up, who continues the chase even though he started further behind the play? Delgado. I'll take Marky and drop Zavs as soon as a decent depth CB becomes available. I expect players to give their all on the pitch, even if they aren't as talented as others. I didn't see that from Zavaleta.

---

Sse that happen live and at first thought he pulled something. It was infact a d dismal display of indifference. Like he saif "fuck it , let marky run"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jloome

It must be obvious at this point that for all his technical acumen, he couldn't motivate a fire to burn paper.

---

He would be an excellent assistant coach. Too bad theres no way to demote him to that position.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OgtheDim

I thought the 3-5-2 was the right call given what we knew going into the game.
They play 3 DMs who don't go forward much in front of 5 defenders.


If we had somebody in the middle more incisive beyond Poz and Altidore, we cause those 3 DMs more issues.

Boyd was not good enough. Can't miss sitters like that but he also had no touch.

DeLeon & Laryea tried on the right but Justin Morrow just isn't offensivly good enough anymore. Great defender in the 3-5-2 but too slow to get into spaces where his crosses could do something.

Delgado is decent defensively but on attack, he's no threat to make the pass or take a shot (that was his best shot of the season).

Also getting really annoyed with NOBODY trying the passes into the forwards making quick runs. You have to try those occasionally just to keep the CBs & DMs honest.

To much attempting to be perfect - which Vanney has continually called out.

---

You are giving Vanney an out with that comment, It's Vanney's tactic, always, pass pass pass, not shots, Stupid

Part of it is the limited squad and not adapting to it, but individually with a couple of exceptions the squad isn’t bad. Again, this playstyle aggravates issues and really points out weaker links.

Part of it is on Vanney, and part is on Curtis. That said, I think a lot of people are wondering whether TFC’s good performances were basically just down to the players themselves rather than the coaching; this season a lot of Vanney’s comments seem to indicate that not only has the FO not delivered what he needs to play his system, but also that the players aren’t doing what they’re told, aren’t playing fast enough, etc.

If you can’t get them to play the way you want, something has to change. In this case, I think it’ll be the end of Vanney at TFC. That said, if it happens, I’d prefer TFC look to acquiring a decent coach who can help draw talent here, but if Curtis wants to bring in one of his own guys then I don’t see how TFC is going to recapture 2017 any time soon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Derko

You are giving Vanney an out with that comment, It's Vanney's tactic, always, pass pass pass, not shots, Stupid

---

Actually, Vanney has spoken specifically against his players doing that. He says passing should be to penetrate defences and score goals.

Is it a coaching failure that they don't do that, or is it the quality of the players? That's the question. Since it's the squad that has changed, not the coach, I think it's the latter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oldtimer

Actually, Vanney has spoken specifically against his players doing that. He says passing should be to penetrate defences and score goals.

Is it a coaching failure that they don't do that, or is it the quality of the players? That's the question. Since it's the squad that has changed, not the coach, I think it's the latter.

---

This lends credence to the idea that the players may have been self-coaching or had more input into how we were playing before, kind of like how tabloids think Messi dictates squad selection at Barça or Argentina.

This probably goes along with clashing with players like VdW or Seba dictating play, as well as a reliance on players he trusts and who work hard but aren’t exactly game changers.

It’s good to have passionate players too, but the amount of times their passion has boiled over in frustration makes it seem like some members of the squad have discipline issues.

I can't believe he earns anything at all.

Boyd's studs seemed to get caught in the carpet during that whiff on goal, not that I'm defending him, but still.....

LOVE how the "highlights" start at 68 minutes in. Jesus!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mikmacdo

worst player ive ever seen play for tfc.

---

Nah....Andy Welsh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by flambe

Boyd's studs seemed to get caught in the carpet during that whiff on goal, not that I'm defending him, but still.....

LOVE how the "highlights" start at 68 minutes in. Jesus!

---

If only Boyd ended up getting caught in the carpet coming out of the tunnel and they just left him there (preferably permanently).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stegosaurus

If only Boyd ended up getting caught in the carpet coming out of the tunnel and they just left him there (preferably permanently).

---

One can wish.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stegosaurus

This lends credence to the idea that the players may have been self-coaching or had more input into how we were playing before, kind of like how tabloids think Messi dictates squad selection at Barça or Argentina.

This probably goes along with clashing with players like VdW or Seba dictating play, as well as a reliance on players he trusts and who work hard but aren’t exactly game changers.

It’s good to have passionate players too, but the amount of times their passion has boiled over in frustration makes it seem like some members of the squad have discipline issues.

---

In Giovinco’s case, he came through the Juventus system. Vanney, ever the “student of the game”, is always open to suggestions.

VdW’s clash has more to do with his work ethic and lacklustre attitude, dangerous traits for a fullback.

There’s nothing wrong with a coach accepting input and suggestions from players. It shows humility and a willingness to learn. The coach’s job is to decide whether the suggestions help the team or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by flambe

Boyd's studs seemed to get caught in the carpet during that whiff on goal, not that I'm defending him, but still.....

LOVE how the "highlights" start at 68 minutes in. Jesus!

---

I wasn't able to watch the game, and this was my first thought too when I watched them. Must have been brutal to sit through.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by noimpactinmtl

In Giovinco’s case, he came through the Juventus system. Vanney, ever the “student of the game”, is always open to suggestions.

VdW’s clash has more to do with his work ethic and lacklustre attitude, dangerous traits for a fullback.

There’s nothing wrong with a coach accepting input and suggestions from players. It shows humility and a willingness to learn. The coach’s job is to decide whether the suggestions help the team or not.

---

No one said there was an issue with a coach taking input from players.

When the coach mentions on multiple occasions that the players aren’t doing what they’ve been told there’s obviously an issue.

I love watching the lads engage in a leisurely kick about while the other team bunkers waiting for a mistake to put us in a dangerous position while half our shots were made by Delgado (Delgado had more shots than the following players combined: Boyd, Jozy, Pozo, and Hamilton).

I like Vanney about as much as anyone on this board, but this team has some sort of intrinsic issue that needs to be solved.