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Originally Posted by
Oldtimer
No condescension Kaz (tone of voice is hard to read), I just feel you haven't given credit where due. I like Molinaro's balance from this tweet :
Then you clearly haven't read my comments check the game threads and further back in this thread.
That comment was sarcasm if not condescension... and it seems to fall under the "attacking the person not the argument" area to me. Which you have openly admited to doing here and it is a no no on the boards these days. I stayed out of this thread of a while due to the fact that I could give data and facts and it is ignored with these kinds of comments and only came back in when I was sure the "attacking the person" censures weren't bias modding. The "we win, vanney good" argument to me is pointless without real data to back it up. I'll give him credit when he does something deserving of it... and I do.
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You have to give Vanney credit for the Youngsters play, though you also have to criticize the metal shape they were in on Wednesday, both those things are the coaches job to deal with.
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I was going to say something nice about Vanney.. but now we are playing absorb the pressure Vanney Ball instead of defending through offense which is just annoying and asking for a mistake to happen.
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I have to give them credit. This is the way I like seeing the team playing. Chasing goals. Though I'm worried about Vanney ball in the second half. Still that half worked out well... Though honestly without Gio on the pitch it would still be nil nil
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Actually until about 2 weeks ago Vanney ball was play for a goal and then try to absorb pressure for the rest of the match and hope for the best. which is why we have so many 1 goal games this year compared to last year.
Each of those acknowledge what I have saw on the field.
We have seen a significant change in general shape. Earlier in the thread it was suggested that Vanney was given a talking to.. suddenly after San Jose we started seeing a massive change. The team started working together, all the things that I've criticized all season started to melt away. Unsurprisingly once we stopped playing a game of give gio the ball and hope for the best the pressure was taken off him and he started raining goals down. The rest of the team looked dangerous and had to be dealt with once we started passing and playing as a team and keep putting pressure instead of just bunkering down once we scored. We went from teams swarm Gio ignoring most of the rest of the team to having to actually watch for runs from everyone. Which gave gio the space to do his thing as well as the chance for others to do things.
That has only improved since then. Yesterday we played most of the game playing for more goals, looking to score the whole game, which left us open to a counter where we made a single mistake but we scored 4 goals and had 1 scored against. 2 of those goals came from Gio being Gio but the first was a team play, the second was a bit of confusion. The Third game from team play and the fourth was a sneaky goal but a goal from a hungry team.. a team allowed to play. Had we played typical Vanney Ball we likely would have tied or lost as they would have spent most of the game crossing in looking for goals.
Chapman said in a mid game interview (a few games back) that Vanney has allowed them to attack more.
All of these changes don't happen from a coach like Vanney without outside pressure not when all season things have been the same. It is a total turn around. Something clearly has happened. The question becomes is this a blip or is this the new Normal. I don't know yet.. it has been two weeks. No where enough time to excuse 5 months of valid concerns. As such my opinion hasn't been swayed on Vanney yet.. there isn't enough data.
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There had to be some major changes. If Manning is responsible for us starting to play as a team and drop the give it to Gio and bunker down into Vanney ball if we are up by a single goal for the whole game.. my opinion of Manning has gone way up. That seems to be the change. We are attacking more we are pushing harder. These are good things. I still see Vanney ball but no where near as often.
to which
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Originally Posted by
Phil
Freudian slip :D
But yeah, Manning had some serous issues with tactics and how we are not playing 'our' game especially at home. To Vanneys credit he listened and adjusted. Its seems to be going well. Lets keep the finger crossed.
The question now becomes will he keep listening.
which is why I said later
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Or he realized that Vanney isn't capable of making sound strategies on his own and is forcing him down the path a little. Vanney seems to be the kind of guy that would be a great assistant and youth coach.. but He was told in the off season not to let in too many goals and rather than creating a sound strategy with an offensively capable team he create Vanney Ball the give Gio the Ball and no one else and once we get a gaol park the bus and dare teams to take points strategy that I have been complaining about for most of the season. We finally started seeing at the end of July the team playing together and building up play forcing defenders to looks at the rest of the team. Suddenly Gio Breaks his Goalless streak.
Since than we have seen most games result in multiple TFC goals. instead of the more common 1 per game. Prior to July 23rd we only scored more than 1 goal in just 5 out of 19 games only two of those were wins. Our first 3 game streak of the year came from the team pushing for goals for most of the match. Our defensive shape is good. our offensive pieces are there, we have the ability to play. Last season we scored more than 2 goals in 10 games out of the first 19.
If we are finally going to be an offensive side again and actually chase multiple goals a game and play as a unit where everyone not just Giovinco and defenders are considered potential goal scorers I think we could do very well for the rest of the season.
Vanney has the ability to coach.. the shape we have seen lately shows that.. no matter what our attacking shape is we should defend as a team that is a normal thing to do, however I don't think he has the ability to create winning strategies on his own. He needs to be pushed by outside forces to be successful. If Manning is able to do that and it works.. great.
There was certainly a change. Sadly It is still Vanney on game day.. RSL shows the issue there where he basically tried playing the same exact game as he did against Columbus. RSL has some poor defensive shape at times.. yet we regularly went out to the wings when on the attack giving RSL the extra few seconds to compose themselves. There was a communication issue too, we had to attacking players (I think it was Osorio and Hamilton) run into each other in what could have been a strong goal scoring chance. It literally looked like part of a montage of a bad team in a comedy movie. I expected to see a replay with Benny Hill music. these kinds of errors shouldn't happen. The players should know their roles well enough that one of them calls it and the other preps for a rebound run.
I still see things regularly that suggest bad coaching or bad mentality. Hamilton likely shouldn't have started the second half. Either he isn't in it mentally or the rest of the team thinks he isn't because people did not want to let him touch the ball.
But ya never do I give Vanney credit for anything.
clearly my opinions have been set all season and haven't evolved and reflected the play on the pitch. I'm just a nonsensical person spewing nonsense and deserving of no more respect of my opinion than sarcastic condescension.