Regular Season Phase 2 Game 1 - TFC @ DCU Saturday Sept 19 7:30pm - History Has...

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Originally Posted by OgtheDim

FWIW Vanney after the game on Jozy

Sounds like Vanney was pretty disgusted with the first half performance

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/MichaelSingh94/status/1307506449216663560

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they had 10 days off...why are players always getting injured in training,thank god i dont give a shit about this season play the young guys.

FWIW

The followup from Vanney on Akinola in the second half

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/MichaelSingh94/status/1307507966162206720

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Originally Posted by OgtheDim

a) every TFC academy director prior to 2014 for a complete waste of time & money developing anybody (but especially defenders) - the fact that the only home grown out there with TFC is Osorio most nights (and Akinola now) and that there is nobody else really in the whole of the dang world at this level or above who started in TFC's academy, came through and moved on somewhere of the same level ...that is shocking, unheard of in MLS & embarrassing
Our academy has to have one of the worst records in all of MLS.

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Plus Osorio only came to TFC when he was 20. Hardly home-grown even if he is considered that. He's just been with TFC a long time since he is now 28.

I think there are also tactical / motivational issues with Vanney. When things are stagnating or going poorly in a game, he has a hard time turning things around. I was feeling huge sense of dread as he was throwing on more defenders tonight.

I had completely erased this from my memory: in the MLS Is Back tournament, TFC played the complete 2nd half up a man against DC but scored no further goals during that time; and TFC was leading 2-0 with 10 minutes left in that game before DC tied it.

And Jonathan is not even home grown. He played for SC Toronto of the CSL in 2012 after returning from Uruguay. Technical he was in the TFC Academy for the latter part of the year before signings first team contact during the 2013 pre-season. He did not even qualify as a home grown player.

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Originally Posted by OgtheDim

If I was to blame somebody for this

I'd say:

a) every TFC academy director prior to 2014 for a complete waste of time & money developing anybody (but especially defenders) - the fact that the only home grown out there with TFC is Osorio most nights (and Akinola now) and that there is nobody else really in the whole of the dang world at this level or above who started in TFC's academy, came through and moved on somewhere of the same level ...that is shocking, unheard of in MLS & embarrassing
Our academy has to have one of the worst records in all of MLS.

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b) Ali Curtis for not getting the recruitment right

• no speed on the wings but for Laryea & the new guy & a bust in Gallardo
• no decent 3rd CB, either experienced or a prospect, causing us to rely upon an aging Ciman & Gonzalez as Mavinga deals with injuries
• only 1 left footed CB in the squad most nights
• not getting that young wide attacker DP they were looking for back in January - Piatti has been great and all but remember - he was not the first choice - he's a wide older crafty guy who prefers to tuck in and this has unbalanced the passing of this team to the point where there is no speed of ball movement to open up pockets - its all tap tap to the close people and its wasting Altidore's use of space (which is how big men play) & sucking in everything down the middle

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c) Vanney for

• not replacing Fraser with somebody as good - I"m not sure who the defensive guru is but its not good enough
• not replacing our GK coach

This all can be fixed and we will still win more then we will lose but this talk of being an elite MLS team is smoke & mirrors if you don't get academy products through & don't get the recruitment needed to use the players you have properly

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In the in season roster discussion thread there is a post from TFC1154 about Altidore which if true is shocking. It would explain why things are going so badly now.

Again FWIW, Vanney post game

https://www.torontofc.ca/post/2020/0...?autoplay=true

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Originally Posted by 69Chevy396

This team is as good as any in MLS, less a proven goal scoring threat. They have never replaced Giovinco.

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Also without Giovinco the team is kind of boring to watch

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Originally Posted by rydermike

I'm fed up with Vanneys "oh we have a 1 goal lead, let's completely switch our dominating strategy". How many times have we blown a late lead now because of this. Vanney needs to go

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Couldn’t watch the game but don’t have to, to not agree and respectfully Og, Vanney is a good coach but to be a great coach you need to learn. This tactic worked in 16 and 17 but is killing us this year, 4 games now with the lead in the 80th and we don’t take 3 points.

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Originally Posted by stevep

Also without Giovinco the team is kind of boring to watch

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I have to disagree with this. I believe they are playing much better football with Piatti, Pozuelo and Osorio pulling the strings in the midfield then they ever have before, even during the championship season:drinking:. Our problem is starting a 6 million dollar forward who can no longer run and a defense that without Mavinga in there looks completely lost. Still in the top 3 in the league so all is not bad.

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Originally Posted by reggie

they had 10 days off...why are players always getting injured in training,thank god i dont give a shit about this season play the young guys.

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Because whenever there is a break in action, Altidore doesn't keep himself in shape. Most of that is on him as judged by his lockdown "routine" and also I have questioned our overall fitness levels for a couple years now. I see us as the least fit team in MLS by far. Most of our players look 100% gassed by the 60th minute, most before half. You just don't see that when watching other teams.

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Originally Posted by Auzzy

Plus Osorio only came to TFC when he was 20. Hardly home-grown even if he is considered that. He's just been with TFC a long time since he is now 28.

I think there are also tactical / motivational issues with Vanney. When things are stagnating or going poorly in a game, he has a hard time turning things around. I was feeling huge sense of dread as he was throwing on more defenders tonight.

I had completely erased this from my memory: in the MLS Is Back tournament, TFC played the complete 2nd half up a man against DC but scored no further goals during that time; and TFC was leading 2-0 with 10 minutes left in that game before DC tied it.

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My take on Vanney and youth development is 1) he’s more so in the culture of bringing in guys who are physically mature and in their 20’s which is in line with what this league has historically done. 2) His considerations on game day decisions are always about winning that game or succeeding this season. The idea of “maybe this guy is not the best option today but if I get him 500 minutes this season, I get to make him better for next year” is simply not applied with any consistency.

And none of this is necessarily wrong. Vanney sets up in a way that gives us the best chance to win on any given season. But the question is, in today’s MLS, can that still work as a strategy? Will youth development bring success or will clubs that go this route just end up being finishing schools for players that ultimately reach for higher ambitions? Does this potentially allow clubs to be really good at development to the point where you don’t care if you lose the average guy? Do fans accept any / all of this?

It’s really hard to say.