Quote:
Originally Posted by ensco
But we can have standards and set ourselves apart. It doesn’t sound like anything was malicious but regardless remove it and move on. Same with Seba, perhaps he comes back for a one day contract to honor his contribution and retire as a red.
Now looking forward....
I think youre aware the misrepresentation of, and speculation about, the situation is where i took issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by ensco
That is better left for twitter as well.
PeaceQuote:
Originally Posted by Red4ever
Lol. 14,237 posts. They cant all be profoundQuote:
Originally Posted by ensco
Looking at clues in pics to find out where his kid goes to school is just plain weird for adults to be doing...malicious or not.
Let's not exaggerate, eh?! The interest is whether Seba's family is staying in Toronto. That's pretty important, thinking of both past & future issues concerning Seba.Quote:
Originally Posted by shwade
I agree we don't need to name the school here. But Seba isn't stupid, and we don't need to make a huge effin' deal about it either. You can bet part of the reason Seba posted that picture is for people to realize that his family is staying in Toronto. Kid starting in 1st grade is a huge deal, and would be a natural time to leave the country if they wanted to. (Many on here & elsewhere had claimed they would definitely be getting out of Dodge as soon as possible.)
Just like Seba also wanted folks to realize he was in Toronto the next day, when he posted a video of himself training at my wife's school in Toronto. (And I ain't gonna tell you which school that is; just that they actually shouldn't be trespassing there, and his trainer has been asked to leave occasionally when they were getting in the way of gym classes on the field. I don't think anybody at the school realizes that there are occasionally famous people training there.)
now that mls has released the updated salary figures, has lost the voyageurs cup and looks like won't have a home game we can now analyze the cost in dollars of not signing seba.
the following contains some guesstimate assumptions, some are solid figures. all figures in USD
assume seba would have signed back for 6.5m
pozuelo salary $3.8m
gallardo salary $0.3m
benezet salary $0.6m
do not count omar as he is not an offensive player, so he is not relevant to this discussion
2000 less people at each game in the cheap seats 2000x17x45=1.5m
missing game 1 of concacaff 25000 season seats x$60 USD $1.5M
missing one home playoff game 25000 x $80 USD = $2M USD
assume we finish at least 4th with seba and easily beat mtl with seba
cost $6.5 for seba
expenses
3.8+.6+.3+1.5+2+1.5=9.7m spent or lost money from less fans at game and missing concacaff game and playoff game
whoever made the decision to not resign seba cost tfc roughly $3.2 M USD. 9.7-6.5=3.2
if i owned tfc and this was my money i would be pissed, heads would roll
sorry Bill had to point this out
^ I can't even.
Its a nice theory to place blame on someone for Seba leaving but fact is no chance Seba was signing for $6.5, he needed at least $7 again.Quote:
Originally Posted by stevep
Remember when Seba was here and we finished with 36 Points last year?
Remember when Seba was here and we went to two straight MLS cups?Quote:
Originally Posted by barticusz
I shudder to think if that happenee again and we finished first in the east, the money lost.
Remember when Seba was here and our whole formation was torqued to fit him as a small 2nd forward to the point where teams had figured out how to easily stop us last year?Quote:
Originally Posted by barticusz
or
Remember when Seba was here last year and he went 1 for 40+ in free kicks last year?
This was not meant as a bash and insult Seba post, save your negativity it for a later date in the Seba thread. it is not relevant to my post.Quote:
Originally Posted by OgtheDim
This was simply a monetary analysis of Seba vs not Seba for 2019.
If you have different assumptions regarding our final year standings, our voyageurs cup result, attendance figures that's fine, please show your assumptions regarding these things and post your own profit/loss with or without Seba, but to come here and insult him is not necessary.
Those are *wild* assumptions for a man who was very much here last season, when we were fucking dismal, and has scored 8 goals in 26 games in a drastically inferior league since leaving *and* we're removing 11 goals and 12 assists from the team in Pozuelo. My hypothesis is we'd be lucky to break even on for that trade out, never mind improve
It also assumes we just don't sign two TAM players? It also neglects the relative value of asset on our books of Pozuelo today and Giovinco today at their ages. You're also averaging ticket price and not taking any cost whatsoever into account. You've also made assumptions of the $ needed to keep Seba which we can only speculate about
EDIT - You've also speculated 2,000 more people per game when our attendance is down around 1,400 from last year and last year was the season after a championship win so would have had huge season ticket sales, this year was season after not making the play offs so season ticket sales would have dropped.
Whole lotta assumptions lol...
i wrote 2000 less people at each game in the cheap seats 2000x17x45=1.5mQuote:
Originally Posted by JoesphNdo
read carefully what I wrote
you wrote we were abysmal last year, but you do not address how we were abysmal was it defense or offense?
defensively we were terrible, offensively not so much, we were 7th in the league in goals.
we were without Jozy almost the whole year, jozy only played 80 or more minutes in 9 games!
you have to understand something, jozy and seba fed off each other, they were a perfect example of the whole being more than the sum of the parts
without jozy teams could just focus on giovinco, they had no one else to fear on our team.
it is an error on your part to blame the failure of 2018 on giovinco
with omar we would have easily made 4th place, easily
has he lost it? how many years do he have left in him at good form? I don't know, I can't answer that question for certain. but look at these highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5hnh3Y7heg
it doesn't look to me like he has lost anything hohohoho
oh, and we sure didn't have this last Wednesday
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jsqiQ9QdFM
You assume we'd get 2,000 more people with Seba per game than we are this season. Yet last year, with Seba, we only had 1,400 more, and that was on the backs of season tickets being sold after a championship win vs season tickets being sold after missing the play offs. Where are these 2,000 coming from? 1,400 is a small drop off considering the previous seasons, I'd make no assumption about extra tickets sold with Seba here looking at that and certainly at most it'd be a few hundred per gameQuote:
Originally Posted by stevep
Has he lost it? Who knows. But 8 goals in 26 games in the Saudi league says more than any highlight video
the 200's on the east side are pretty sparse this year. i don't recall that in 2018Quote:
Originally Posted by JoesphNdo
my assumption was 2000 seats more per game on 200's east side
eveywhere else in the stadium seems around the same
I'm more confused by the assumption on salary...its a pointless conversation, Seba was not going to stay here unless he got $7 million. All the power to him, he signed an amazing deal for much more cash than he'd get anywhere else in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by stevep
My assumption was 6.5mQuote:
Originally Posted by JT Red127
So the loss was 2.7M under your scenario vs $3.2M under my assumption.
Still a huge loss for tfc
Make no mistake: both sides could have handled things better, as far as contract negotiations go (I agree with the sentiment MLSE were naiive to the market norms, but I also don't agree with market norms—obviously not worth much, in the context of the discussion… but, I'll always find it difficult to entirely side with a player in these situations, for just that reason).Quote:
Originally Posted by stevep
That said, things got to a point where the situation was all but untenable; at that stage, it's a lose-lose for management to give Seba what he wants or not, as there's something to be said for the precedent it sets to cave in to his demands (especially with the tone he was taking, both during the final days and afterwards), with the implication of future costs in similar situations, should that pattern continue (also left out in your numbers, and not really calculable).
This goes along with the alternative of their feeling like paying him wouldn't be making the most of the opportunity, given how they're looking to play, going forward, and taking the heat for making that call.
The loss at the gate is actually a lot less due to MLS revenue sharing and amounts due to the city. It's about a third, or less than $1m.
However, there has also been a decline in sponsorships with Seba leaving, so that also affects the bottom line.
Agreed, there were limitations in fitting him into the formation. That said, I find it a bit odd we started going down this path towards a 4-3-3,while he was still here. To take LA for example, they aren’t trying to do things that don’t complement Ibrahimovic with their roster (notwithstanding they are still working out the kinks).Quote:
Originally Posted by OgtheDim
I think what this team really misses about Seba (other than his quality) is someone who is ultra competitive and wants nothing less than first place and makes it a borderline obsession.
You are right about that. I'm not sure anyone on the team now has that same current drive and motivation that made him that competitive player. His presence alone in the locker room would have given that same confidence and motivation to the players around him.
You take him out of the equation now and perhaps add a bit of that negative attitude from VDW and it leaves the locker room split between people who might see things VDW way and not having that motivated leader
Thanks Steve the money lost is not really much of a concern for me, but man I knew this was a huge mistake when they did not resign Seba. What a huge difference he makes on field to this team. What the F was Bill Manning thinking???????
Yes this team is so pleasing to the eyes without Seba here.
Steve you forgot to take into account the transfer money they spent on Poz
This thread has taken a serious "get over it" turn. Its over. 2 MLS cup runs were amazing. Last season was a nightmare. Lets live in the present, playoffs and we havent lost a match in 9.
I agree Bill the team has been great. Ali has done a magnificent job for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Red127
We may well win the MLS cup.
But the hard numbers are you what they are.
I know what was he thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by NOMOTFCBSFROMFO
You're welcome. The truth is very hard to take for most people here.
I can fully understand if the move saved TFC money. They are a for profit corporation. But this move cost tfc Money and pissed so many fans off.