Argos to BMO decision - Wednesday, May 20th

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Originally Posted by Beach_Red

But they always had the Dome to fall back on in those situations.

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What's the Sched look like in Fort Mac? g:D

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Originally Posted by kshep

Might not be, but your a pointy ball fan which I happen to think is one of the most boring pro sports in the world, you have a divested interest in seeing the argos at bmo, I don't. Which means I reserve the right to think the argos to bmo is the biggest bunch of bullshit in the world, as a soccer supporter and a MLS TFC first soccer supporter( I've stopped watching other soccer for the most part and only watch MLS exclusively outside of champions league/euro cup) I am completely enraged that this might happen, to the point that I would walk away and start following and supporting another MLS side that places soccer as its first priority.

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you're entitled to your opinion as i am to mine. Cheers

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Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat

Question away but not here.

Everyone is entitled to support the way they want. You are free to attend or abstain or protest in a way you see fit but there is no need to call out other people's dedication to this club.

It won't be tolerated. Please refrain from this line of attack again.

Thank you for your co-operation.

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Noted, wasn't meaning to attack anyone directly. Will do a better job of policing myself in the future, my apologies to anyone offended.

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Originally Posted by king10

you're entitled to your opinion as i am to mine. Cheers

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Agreed, seems we agree to disagree. Hope to meet up with you some match day for a pint or two. Cheers

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Originally Posted by kshep

Might not be, but your a pointy ball fan which I happen to think is one of the most boring pro sports in the world, you have a divested interest in seeing the argos at bmo, I don't. Which means I reserve the right to think the argos to bmo is the biggest bunch of bullshit in the world, as a soccer supporter and a MLS TFC first soccer supporter( I've stopped watching other soccer for the most part and only watch MLS exclusively outside of champions league/euro cup) I am completely enraged that this might happen, to the point that I would walk away and start following and supporting another MLS side that places soccer as its first priority.

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May I suggest, as we've talking about supporting in general, that it doesn't take you switching teams to show your feelings on the matter. As mad as this makes you I'm sure you've enjoyed following your local. You never going to BMO doesn't belittle you as a supporter. Catching every game on tele or down the pub and having a gab here, Hell coming to T.O. for away games at Joe's shows a commitment and dedication that not everyone is able to do.

If it does or doesn't go down, know I'll be there at Joe's for away games. Hope to see you there.:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Phil

TFC went to counting tickets sold vs. scanned at the gate. That is why the number seems inflated compared to bums in seats. This happened 3 or 4 years ago now.

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This was league wide, was it not? Considering the leauge often cites "attendance" as proof of leagues growth/strength, it's not surprising.

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Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat

May I suggest, as we've talking about supporting in general, that it doesn't take you switching teams to show your feelings on the matter. As mad as this makes you I'm sure you've enjoyed following your local. You never going to BMO doesn't belittle you as a supporter. Catching every game on tele or down the pub and having a gab here, Hell coming to T.O. for away games at Joe's shows a commitment and dedication that not everyone is able to do.

If it does or doesn't go down, know I'll be there at Joe's for away games. Hope to see you there.:thumbsup:

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I see what your getting at, and yeah maybe I might be a tad over the top.. tends to happen being welsh :). And yeah I love supporting K-W United, have seasons and am thankful that I can take my boy to see live matches 20 mins from home.

Speaking of Joe's, is the atmosphere on game days conducive to bring a 4 year old, it's been a few years since my wife and I have made it to Joe's before a match, mainly because we favor taking the train in these days. Would love to get the boy out for a March to the grounds this year, as he loves the club and was right in the middle of the post game supporter rally after the Portland win, trying his best to chant and dancing up a storm.

Ps. His favorite thing is to walk around singing TFC-CHA-CHA-CHA TFC-CHA-CHA-CHA, and he automatically assumes any soccer team wearing red is TFC. Might just be the dad in me, be he makes my day!

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Originally Posted by Petor

It's a federal election year.
Maybe the Argos can get that $10 million and use it to expand the stadium at York U.
Also could get more money into the University for other stuff, like practice facilities etc.

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Originally Posted by TFC07

I don't think Feds are going to contribute any money especially with oil prices being down.

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I think it's deeper than that - Feds have already said no to others asking for stadium money. Quebec city wanting a new arena to attract an NHL team back is a good example... new CFL stadium in Regina that's currently under development (without fed dollars) another good one.

So if they gave money to Argos to move to BMO, it would make them look bad by changing course on established policy, and more so piss off the rest of the country by apparently giving Toronto something nobody else is allowed to have.

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Originally Posted by kshep

I see what your getting at, and yeah maybe I might be a tad over the top.. tends to happen being welsh :). And yeah I love supporting K-W United, have seasons and am thankful that I can take my boy to see live matches 20 mins from home.

Speaking of Joe's, is the atmosphere on game days conducive to bring a 4 year old, it's been a few years since my wife and I have made it to Joe's before a match, mainly because we favor taking the train in these days. Would love to get the boy out for a March to the grounds this year, as he loves the club and was right in the middle of the post game supporter rally after the Portland win, trying his best to chant and dancing up a storm.

Ps. His favorite thing is to walk around singing TFC-CHA-CHA-CHA TFC-CHA-CHA-CHA, and he automatically assumes any soccer team wearing red is TFC. Might just be the dad in me, be he makes my day!

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Sweet. :)

I would reckon that the home opener will have a march your boy would enjoy (probably not RIGHT at the front ;) for safety's sake )

As for gamedays nowadays there's always a couple kids around (It's been 9 years. That kind of thing happens as you well know :) )

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Originally Posted by kshep

I see what your getting at, and yeah maybe I might be a tad over the top.. tends to happen being welsh :). And yeah I love supporting K-W United, have seasons and am thankful that I can take my boy to see live matches 20 mins from home.

Speaking of Joe's, is the atmosphere on game days conducive to bring a 4 year old, it's been a few years since my wife and I have made it to Joe's before a match, mainly because we favor taking the train in these days. Would love to get the boy out for a March to the grounds this year, as he loves the club and was right in the middle of the post game supporter rally after the Portland win, trying his best to chant and dancing up a storm.

Ps. His favorite thing is to walk around singing TFC-CHA-CHA-CHA TFC-CHA-CHA-CHA, and he automatically assumes any soccer team wearing red is TFC. Might just be the dad in me, be he makes my day!

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I've been bringing my (now) 2 1/2 year old since he was born, and I've never felt it was a problem. Joe and his wife are always glad to see the little guy, and make a point to come say hi. It is a bar, so you don't expect conversations to sound like a Disney movie, but with that said everyone has been welcoming and respectful of the "next generation RPB's".

Excellent, sounds like we'll have to take the early train down and join the masses. Cheers fellas.

http://cfldb.ca/stadium-status/toronto/

this article has some informative background for where we find ourselves now with the argos a

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Originally Posted by sully

http://cfldb.ca/stadium-status/toronto/

this article has some informative background for where we find ourselves now with the argos a

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Good read, leaves me full of dread that it might actually happen. Oh well though, it's not my stadium nor my soccer team to ruin, just along for the ride for the time being. Will keep my fingers crossed that it doesn't go through.

Pardon me if I don't really care about an opinion piece on a CFL blog.


Has about as much weight and depth as twitter.

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Originally Posted by WestStandGeoff

I think it's deeper than that - Feds have already said no to others asking for stadium money. Quebec city wanting a new arena to attract an NHL team back is a good example... new CFL stadium in Regina that's currently under development (without fed dollars) another good one.

So if they gave money to Argos to move to BMO, it would make them look bad by changing course on established policy, and more so piss off the rest of the country by apparently giving Toronto something nobody else is allowed to have.

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on one of the other threads they cite some huge figure of public $$$$$ for CFL stadia - not my figure but worth checking out. I think they say $1 BN

The most hopeful section of that CFL blurb (imho) - my underline below. The problem remains that the Argos are just not to be trusted to be the drivers towards the best (or any)two sport integrity solution. They are a sinking ship and have been for decades now. If the NFL ever creates an award for inspiring the most people to become fans of the NFL - the Argos would win it every year. To think that any of the remaining Argo fans think that Mistake by the Lake version two is anything but a disaster in the making...but I guess beggars can't be choosers..

"Options to protect the integrity of the field for both tenants have been suggested including a hybrid natural/synthetic surface, grass varieties that stand up to athletic use, moveable field turf surface to be placed on top of the grass surface for football games and painting and removing lines for each sport as necessary."

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Originally Posted by Still Kicking

To think that any of the remaining Argo fans think that Mistake by the Lake version two is anything but a disaster in the making...but I guess beggars can't be choosers..

"Options to protect the integrity of the field for both tenants have been suggested including a hybrid natural/synthetic surface, grass varieties that stand up to athletic use, moveable field turf surface to be placed on top of the grass surface for football games and painting and removing lines for each sport as necessary."

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The mistake by the lake was deemed as much for the weather as much as the design of the stadium. It may be a mistake to move them back there but not because of the same level of discomfort for the fans. BMO would at least have a roof and could never be the wind tunnel the previous stadium was.

A movable surface on top of grass can be done 2 ways - cheap so the grass suffers or
incredibly expensively to preserve both surfaces. NOT likely with the teams we're talking about.

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Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat

The mistake by the lake was deemed as much for the weather as much as the design of the stadium. It may be a mistake to move them back there but not because of the same level of discomfort for the fans. BMO would at least have a roof and could never be the wind tunnel the previous stadium was.

A movable surface on top of grass can be done 2 ways - cheap so the grass suffers or
incredibly expensively to preserve both surfaces. NOT likely with the teams we're talking about.

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Hear, Hear, hey, hey. I was at The Grey Cup 1982. I remember that cold, cold rainy day. One set of stands covered, the other exposed. The chanting of "we want a dome" (82 was the first year that beer could be sold in Ontario stadiums!!!). I say flip a coin on the question of weather versus design as the basis of the "Mistake". Hey, it was an awful design when the Argos were sole sports tenants prior to the Blue Jay era. The CNE built it for grandstand shows and various events like car races and police games and Scottish marching band competitions. The Argos as orphan tenants goes back more than a half a century...

Fully agree that the movable surface on top of grass will not be likely considering the Argos have no money, lose money every year and can't be trusted to act in their own best interest, never mind care about a soccer pitch...

i have a question about CFL and MLS teams sharing the same stadium. Sorry if it has already been answered at some point earlier, but you know when the whitecaps and the BC Lions played out of that one stadium when BC place was being renovated.... well didn't that one have natural grass?

Empire was artificial turf

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Originally Posted by GabrielHurl

Empire was artificial turf

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Largley noted as about the worst surface in the MLS outside of the skydome.

Well, now that MLSE gave the city a $100,000 "gift" to keep some rinks open maybe they can use that leverage to keep the Argos out?
Wishful thinking, I know, but at least they are buddy buddy for now.

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Originally Posted by Petor

Well, now that MLSE gave the city a $100,000 "gift" to keep some rinks open maybe they can use that leverage to keep the Argos out?
Wishful thinking, I know, but at least they are buddy buddy for now.

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Sshhhh, or the City will have to return that money as well. They already had to return $100k to GFL... ;)

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Originally Posted by Petor

Well, now that MLSE gave the city a $100,000 "gift" to keep some rinks open maybe they can use that leverage to keep the Argos out?
Wishful thinking, I know, but at least they are buddy buddy for now.

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It means nothing! MLSE could easily block Argos move to BMO field if they wanted to especially since CFL isn't willing to pay $10 million to get Argos there. City of Toronto isn't going to force the issue. We already saw City of Toronto back down once when MLSE wanted to revise original BMO field renovation agreement which kick Argos out until they had money to get in.

City of Toronto don't really care about Argos that much as we make it out to be, they're just being political when comes to Argos (they're trying to make everyone happy for sake of votes). City of Toronto doesn't want to be seen as anti-Argos because that will mean someone might not vote for them. (Politics is fun, eh?).

A little historical perspective for those against hand outs and government funding.

MLSE paid $10M for the franchise and contributed $8M to the stadium while receiving approx $70M in funding in corporate welfare.

Absolutely no way MLSE invests that out of their own pocket with projections of 14k in their financials.

Without a hand out, TFC doesn't exist.

Value for the Argos is about the same.

Stone throwers beware, this Home of TFC may be built of glass.

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Originally Posted by Pookie

A little historical perspective for those against hand outs and government funding.

MLSE paid $10M for the franchise and contributed $8M to the stadium while receiving approx $70M in funding in corporate welfare.

Absolutely no way MLSE invests that out of their own pocket with projections of 14k in their financials.

Without a hand out, TFC doesn't exist.

Value for the Argos is about the same.

Stone throwers beware, this Home of TFC may be built of glass.

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No not really since MLSE has kept on invested on BMO field (grass, north stands and now expansion with roof) while Argos never contribute one cent for Sky Dome and don't look like they're willing to invest in BMO field either.

Argos' owner is having trouble selling Argos for $10 million! So no, they're not same level/value as TFC.

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Originally Posted by Pookie

A little historical perspective for those against hand outs and government funding.

MLSE paid $10M for the franchise and contributed $8M to the stadium while receiving approx $70M in funding in corporate welfare.

Absolutely no way MLSE invests that out of their own pocket with projections of 14k in their financials.

Without a hand out, TFC doesn't exist.

Value for the Argos is about the same.

Stone throwers beware, this Home of TFC may be built of glass.

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It will be interesting to see what happens if MLS lose a season (or part of a season) negotiating the CBA. MLSE is going to have someone playing on that stadium...

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Originally Posted by TFC07

No not really since MLSE has kept on invested on BMO field (grass, north stands and now expansion with roof) while Argos never contribute one cent for Sky Dome and don't look like they're willing to invest in BMO field either.

Argos' owner is having trouble selling Argos for $10 million! So no, they're not same level/value as TFC.

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Exactly.

MLSE has spent more in renovations then the actual stadium is worth. Not to mention surface changes and the North end seating.

Argos have done no such thing over the 30 plus years at the dome.

Argos can't find a buyer at $10 plus million where as TFC is already valued in the hundreds of millions.

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Originally Posted by Beach_Red

It will be interesting to see what happens if MLS lose a season (or part of a season) negotiating the CBA. MLSE is going to have someone playing on that stadium...

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Really? And if they do go on strike but settle in a couple of months or less, rescheduling the season will be a pain as well as the Voyageurs Cup games.
What happens to that other team?

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Originally Posted by Pookie

Without a hand out, TFC doesn't exist. .

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Like every other sports team.

Value for the Argos is not the same by any means though. Investment by the Argos hasnt existed since the days of Bruce McNall - and the money for that was mythical. Before that the Argos operated like every other CFL franchise - parsimonious.