Match day 26 - TFC @ Portland Wed August 29 10:30pm - Burnng Down the House

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Originally Posted by DinamoTFC

I dont believe this. Most injuries are hamstring or quad issues, same reoccuring issues. They only play at BMO for half the schedule. Whats their excuse for constantly getting injured on the road or at training faciliets. You're telling me these boys are so physically/muscluarly weak that one game at home causes 5 injuries per game. I dont buy it. It has something to do with training protocols and muscle imbalances.

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The criticism of our training and physio to me is overblown. Neither of those are magic bullets against injuries. Muscle imbalances? Come on, let’s not play backseat physiotherapist. TFC has a great training staff.

The fact that we over-prioritized the CL and had players playing full out in February without a proper base building phase likely had more to do with it. I think we have to look seriously at how much effort to put into winning the CL. I agreed with it at the time but I wouldn’t again in retrospect. It’s not worth crapping out on the MLS season to win it. Our leadership I think had the misguided idea that you can give up a 5-6 game headstart to everyone and still make the playoffs. Seemed a reasonable bet to make but looks like they were wrong.

VDW has allowed us to change how our CB's play - we now use mobile CB's who roam forward while either Bradley or Delgado move back into the back line. Sure, Hagglund & Zavs & Hernandez can't do this but even old man Moor has been roaming within 10 metres of their 18. This is causing imbalances.

The main reason we miss Beta is injuries to Auro & VDW have had us relying a lot upon a regressing Zavs back there.

The big whiff is Aketxe.

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My issue with the training is the team allowed players to not really take time off. Bradley openly stated guys were back in within two weeks of the MLS Cup final.

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Originally Posted by Canary10

The criticism of our training and physio to me is overblown. Neither of those are magic bullets against injuries. Muscle imbalances? Come on, let’s not play backseat physiotherapist. TFC has a great training staff.

The fact that we over-prioritized the CL and had players playing full out in February without a proper base building phase likely had more to do with it. I think we have to look seriously at how much effort to put into winning the CL. I agreed with it at the time but I wouldn’t again in retrospect. It’s not worth crapping out on the MLS season to win it. Our leadership I think had the misguided idea that you can give up a 5-6 game headstart to everyone and still make the playoffs. Seemed a reasonable bet to make but looks like they were wrong.

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No such thing as "over-prioritizing" the CL, any successful team should set out to win every trophy or why bother playing at all. The issue is having the necessary depth to sustain high quality performances season long. The MLS salary cap makes it very difficult, if not impossible, for teams to retain the quality of depth necessary to be successful. It's been said many times before but beyond spots 1-14ish on an MLS roster it can be very slim pickings and we've seen that here firsthand. FWIW the only thing I question re the coaching staff is how some players seem to have been rushed back into the lineup being nowhere near 100% - case in point VV who I'm not sure I've seen a stretch of 20 consistent minutes all season that he's looked fit. Mavinga as well to a lesser extent. I think this has cost us some points this season for sure.

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Originally Posted by OgtheDim

I'm pretty darn sure nobody really wants to play us now. Portland were not happy in the first half.

Last night was about trying to grab a point, work on chemistry, & give some kids some minutes. First thing didn't work in the end as we were never going to keep them off the scoring sheet. Last 2 did.

More a game about next year then this one.

Although I would say Chapman is beginning to get past his usefulness. Guy couldn't make a forward pass.

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Harsh on Chapman. Rarely had a runner and he’s normally not a RWB

I have reread this entire thread. For me, our team is still by and large the guys who nearly were back to back MLS Cup winners and CCL champions. Even in this injury congestion and poor pitch played season, if we could kick penalties we’d be in the playoffs right now. Last night a below strength 11 played very well and deserved a better result. This group of players is the best I have seen and the most fun since the ‘85 - 93 Jays. I am with them and in my mind our best 14 are still the best in MLS. Yes injuries. Yes travel. Yes Axetke. Yes our pitch. But at our best, we are the best. I am with them, win or lose. And if we lose, look out Mexico. No stopping us.

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Originally Posted by Smokecell

No such thing as "over-prioritizing" the CL, any successful team should set out to win every trophy or why bother playing at all.

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This is entirely correct IMO. My only regret is that I didn't prioritize it enough and didn't fly down to Mexico for one of those games.

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Originally Posted by Smokecell

FWIW the only thing I question re the coaching staff is how some players seem to have been rushed back into the lineup being nowhere near 100% - case in point VV who I'm not sure I've seen a stretch of 20 consistent minutes all season that he's looked fit. Mavinga as well to a lesser extent. I think this has cost us some points this season for sure.

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Yes I think there was some panic setting in in June.

Look, it's not (just) that we only had 2 weeks off before starting training for the CCL - we only had 6 weeks off the year before also.

North American teams really get penalized for success, by having much longer seasons. There's a reason you don't see dynasties any more in the NHL, and it ain't parity.

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Originally Posted by Canary10

The criticism of our training and physio to me is overblown. Neither of those are magic bullets against injuries. Muscle imbalances? Come on, let’s not play backseat physiotherapist. TFC has a great training staff.

The fact that we over-prioritized the CL and had players playing full out in February without a proper base building phase likely had more to do with it. I think we have to look seriously at how much effort to put into winning the CL. I agreed with it at the time but I wouldn’t again in retrospect. It’s not worth crapping out on the MLS season to win it. Our leadership I think had the misguided idea that you can give up a 5-6 game headstart to everyone and still make the playoffs. Seemed a reasonable bet to make but looks like they were wrong.

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Part of the problem was that TFC drew a cross-continent match in Colorado in the freezing cold, followed by the three best teams in Mexico. No other team had it that hard. Usually you get a Joe Public or equivalent in the first round, you send your scrubs for an easy win, and it's good.

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Originally Posted by DinamoTFC

Champions league is never a pointless tournament. It's a fantastic tournament that pits the best against the best. I was happy at the time and wanted TFC to go all in regardless if it caused us a slow start in league play. The way we have imploded, no one could predict and is not a result of only CCL. Look at the Red Bulls, they played nearly the same amount of games and they are killing the league leading the supporters shield race. They play a high pressing tempo game which you could argue they run and cover more ground than we do. I want us next year to go for it again but perhaps with more balance.

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The difference is the Red Bulls got almost a 3 month break after being bounced from the playoffs, where as TFC only got a 1 month break. That makes a pretty big difference, especially with the amount of travelling and playing 3 good quality Mexican sides.

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Originally Posted by OgtheDim

A tad mixed, to be honest.


Regardless, current management puts a high emphasis on the CCL. I would be very suprised if they don't go for the quadruple next year.

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I agree with this 100%. If we do miss the playoffs, watch for the run at the Quad.

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Originally Posted by Red4ever

They were over after a cup of coffee with the exception of the Beckham game. Which was more about Beckham.

Numbers
30,000 plus for playoff semi final against Columbus with tickets going for $100s
23,000 for a champions league semi final after winning the MLS cup with tickets available at the box office.

(28,000 for the second game of the year vs Salt Lake, 4 days earlier, btw)

There's no serious argument that the regular TFC fan who goes to games cares more about a 3 round tournament than a 30+ game season.

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Hey, no serious argument being made in that regard here. CCL is secondary to MLS in vast majority of opinions. But still, 23k for that CCL SF game, on a very cold, unpleasant Tuesday night in early April -- that's not nothing. CCL attendance numbers, especially given weeknight games in winter, were mostly just below our average for league games this year. I think this tournament is a bit more popular with casual fans than you would like it to be.

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CCL Numbers
Tue Feb 27 v Colorado 23,383 (lowest home attendance YTD)
Wed Mar 7 v Tigres 25,587
Tue Apr 3 v America 23,463
Tue Apr 17 v Guadalajara 29,925 (highest home attendance YTD)

Average home attendance; League: 26,357; All: 26,016
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Mostly, what provoked me to reply was your hyperbole about tanking a "stupid pointless" competition with intentional own goals.

TFC has had a challenging season in league play, after a very, very good run in our continental tourney. As already mentioned, other teams in the same competition were not similarly affected, just us (as if that was our only problem). Short off-seasons and all, management has to plan for it. Fitness, discipline, and late-game defending were the big problems this year, my opinion. Then again, bad luck and shit happens.

The club takes Champions League seriously, lots of us do. You don't have to take it seriously, but there's certainly no need to misrepresent or diminish it as ruining, mexican, unpopular. If we're talking about the opinion of fans (exclusive of supporters), I'd prefer to see messages from supporters raising the profile of the CCL. And maybe someday our continental competition can achieve some of that gravitas you mentioned earlier.

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Originally Posted by MightyDM

I have reread this entire thread. For me, our team is still by and large the guys who nearly were back to back MLS Cup winners and CCL champions. Even in this injury congestion and poor pitch played season, if we could kick penalties we’d be in the playoffs right now. Last night a below strength 11 played very well and deserved a better result. This group of players is the best I have seen and the most fun since the ‘85 - 93 Jays. I am with them and in my mind our best 14 are still the best in MLS. Yes injuries. Yes travel. Yes Axetke. Yes our pitch. But at our best, we are the best. I am with them, win or lose. And if we lose, look out Mexico. No stopping us.

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Oh, if we could kick penalties, lol .... we might also have been 2x MLS Cup champs and perhaps CCL Champs right now. I hope we get that CCL trophy next year.

:scarf::drum::scarf: