Game 24 - Lets Go to the Ex, Orlando!! TFC host OCSC Saturday Aug 22 4:00 pm TSN

One good thing:

Orlando plays in Seattle today before flying home and then coming up here again.

Kaka will play. In theory we have our full squad.

Two teams desperate for points and a result.


Oh, and the Ex is on so the smell of candy floss and cracker jack will be everywhere.

This really has to be 3 points, not much more to say than that. We can sweep them this year with another win.

Orlando defence looking very slow. Martins scores a goal that I've seen Jozy do - power through the middle. Hope?

Please put Osorio back on the pitch!

The current RB for Orlando (was expected to be a backup this season but things changed) gets a second yellow. Not that a makeshift backline has meant much the last 2 games, but...hey.

Hope?

And now Ceren, one of Orlando's few decent mids apart from Kaka gets a yellow which puts him out for next week with accumulation. Hope?


Both Larin and Kaka subbed out early. Heath given up on this game and focusing now on TFC. Both of those players will be motivated.

Not worried about Orlando. TFC wins 3-1.

Win win win win win win win win

ffs, win!!!

So the two teams who are tied for the most goals against in MLS are going head-to-head? Needless to say it won't be boring.

I wanna see our side beat the fucking shit out of these Florida poseurs, if our side has any post season aspirations.

2 things have to happen in this game:

1) We need to win, badly (I hate to use the term "must win", but... yeah)

2) Altidore has to fucking score. Ever since his injury/USMNT stint, he has been dreadful. Not dreadful in an "unlucky" kind of way, but in a "I'm not going to run, fight for balls, shoot, or really do anything at all" kind of way. To me there are only 2 explanations. He is either still injured (or afraid of getting re-injured) or he's a confidence striker completely lacking in confidence (this is what I think). Assuming he's low on confidence, he needs to bag a couple nice goals this game to help get out of his funk. If he doesn't do that, he's on a downward spiral that cannot end well.

My problem is he's not the sort of player that's a fighter. He's not the sort where you bench him, and he comes back twice as good to prove himself. He seems to have a fragile ego. Instead of doubling his efforts to be the best, he gets frustrated and gets worse. I think that's why Vanney has yet to pull Altidore even when he's having a shitty game. If you start benching him for not being good enough, he may never recover. Vanney either has to continue to have faith in him (in gametime and the press) or he has to give up on him entirely.

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Originally Posted by Steve

2) Altidore has to fucking score. Ever since his injury/USMNT stint, he has been dreadful. Not dreadful in an "unlucky" kind of way, but in a "I'm not going to run, fight for balls, shoot, or really do anything at all" kind of way. To me there are only 2 explanations. He is either still injured (or afraid of getting re-injured) or he's a confidence striker completely lacking in confidence (this is what I think). Assuming he's low on confidence, he needs to bag a couple nice goals this game to help get out of his funk. If he doesn't do that, he's on a downward spiral that cannot end well.

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The third option is that our midfield plays garbage when pressed. When this happens we resort to long balling it to Jozy from deep in our own end so he is trying to win aerial battles just beyond the centre of the pitch. Not much scoring from way out there and he isn't the kind of forward to win a ball there and tear towards goal on a breakaway. He tried it a few times but is too slow to beat defenders and he gets no support usually because everyone is playing so deep and only Seba makes runs. Also, because we can't advance the ball in a timely manner beyond midfield, Jozy tracks back all over the place to recover it and is almost never near goal when he should be. He was on the wing lots of times Saturday and that's not where a target striker should be. He's pulling himself out his proper position to help our failing mids and from there, will get no chances. His confidence is probably low too. Mine would be. You could go matches on end without a sniff of the ball unless you actively go and get it.

Blame should be placed fairly. Yeah, Jozy blew that header against SKC. That was him. He fell on the ball in NY. That was him too. For the other 179 minutes of both those matches our midfield was glued to the spot trying to see how many neutral or back passes we could complete in a row with moving at all. Until that gets fixed Jozy will be a non-factor and we will cough up more goals because we always have giveaways in our own end because we rarely make it into the offensive third.

He's not a target striker.

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Originally Posted by Detroit_TFC

He's not a target striker.

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And yet Bendik kept pumping up balls to him and he'd actually win a good % compared to all our past strikers (except Dichio). I applaud his effort out there but its darn close to the wrong way to play Jozy.

This team has to be able to play out of the back and out of midfield. It has to learn to deal with the press. Now, the good thing is only 4 games are against teams liable to press us - Seattle, NER, NYRB and maybe NYCFC. But, we have to learn to deal with that tactic or we will be in a bind.

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Originally Posted by Detroit_TFC

He's not a target striker.

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But we long ball it to him like he is one. Doesn't matter what he supposed to be, it's what we're using him like. That's how we're using him.

Hmmm.....TFC social media beginning to beat the drums for Gomez to start this week. They don't do that unless there is a good chance.

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/633304096037031936

4-3-3 or wide in the diamond or 4-2-3-1? Regardless, something is going to change for Saturday.

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Originally Posted by OgtheDim

And yet Bendik kept pumping up balls to him and he'd actually win a good % compared to all our past strikers (except Dichio). I applaud his effort out there but its darn close to the wrong way to play Jozy.

This team has to be able to play out of the back and out of midfield. It has to learn to deal with the press. Now, the good thing is only 4 games are against teams liable to press us - Seattle, NER, NYRB and maybe NYCFC. But, we have to learn to deal with that tactic or we will be in a bind.

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And if we make the playoffs we'll probably end up with one of them in our wild card match knowing our luck.

TFC will win. But they must win this game because Orlando is garbage. Doesn't mean we're playoff contenders.

This game doesn't mean anything except for morale. It's not a test or a measure of our abilities. If we win we shouldn't forget our last few blowout losses and act like this team is fine.

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Originally Posted by shwade

This game doesn't mean anything except for morale. It's not a test or a measure of our abilities. If we win we shouldn't forget our last few blowout losses and act like this team is fine.

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The brass and media presence at TFC will pump it like that though.

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Originally Posted by Soccerpro

TFC will win. But they must win this game because Orlando is garbage. Doesn't mean we're playoff contenders.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by shwade

This game doesn't mean anything except for morale. It's not a test or a measure of our abilities. If we win we shouldn't forget our last few blowout losses and act like this team is fine.

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This game should mean 3 points and time to work on what needs to be worked on.

You can only play who's in front of you so I don't see why we should be dismissive about a good opportunity to improve.

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Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat

This game should mean 3 points and time to work on what needs to be worked on.

You can only play who's in front of you so I don't see why we should be dismissive about a good opportunity to improve.

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You can't improve that much when you're facing an inferior product though. 1 step forward 2 steps back with this team it seems.

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Originally Posted by shwade

You can't improve that much when you're facing an inferior product though. 1 step forward 2 steps back with this team it seems.

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Yet that means improvement. If you believe so strongly it means nothing why tune in? The above statement statement doesn't make sense. It's not a setback to face inferior opposition.

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Originally Posted by shwade

You can't improve that much when you're facing an inferior product though. 1 step forward 2 steps back with this team it seems.

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Don't forget that this is MLS where on any random day, the inferior product will grab all three points. This is an important game and a win is very good against any MLS team. Ever since I first started following MLS, I learned early on that no team should be taken lightly since you really never know which last place team will stomp someone out of nowhere.

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Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat

Yet that means improvement. If you believe so strongly it means nothing why tune in? The above statement statement doesn't make sense. It's not a setback to face inferior opposition.

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Because I'm a supporter...I hang onto that thin thread of hope that this team might actually make me proud one day. I didn't say it was a setback, just that it doesn't mean this team has improved because they win against an expansion side. They won against Orlando last time and followed that up with 2 shitty performances, is that improvement?

This club just needs to make the playoffs as a benchmark. Who cares if the wins come against Orlando, Montreal, Colorado, Chicago etc.

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Originally Posted by shwade

Because I'm a supporter...I hang onto that thin thread of hope that this team might actually make me proud one day. I didn't say it was a setback, just that it doesn't mean this team has improved because they win against an expansion side. They won against Orlando last time and followed that up with 2 shitty performances, is that improvement?

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And my point is that we watch in hopes for improvement, not just that proud day they win fantastically.

When you say 1 step forward 2 steps back - that equals setback.

I am not saying beating an inferior team is improvement. It's how they beat them that could be an improvement. To write off the game like we couldn't or that it couldn't be the stepping stone to a run is defeatist to me.

I AM glad it sounds like you'll be watching regardless.

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Originally Posted by Steve

2 things have to happen in this game:

1) We need to win, badly (I hate to use the term "must win", but... yeah)

2) Altidore has to fucking score. Ever since his injury/USMNT stint, he has been dreadful. Not dreadful in an "unlucky" kind of way, but in a "I'm not going to run, fight for balls, shoot, or really do anything at all" kind of way. To me there are only 2 explanations. He is either still injured (or afraid of getting re-injured) or he's a confidence striker completely lacking in confidence (this is what I think). Assuming he's low on confidence, he needs to bag a couple nice goals this game to help get out of his funk. If he doesn't do that, he's on a downward spiral that cannot end well.

My problem is he's not the sort of player that's a fighter. He's not the sort where you bench him, and he comes back twice as good to prove himself. He seems to have a fragile ego. Instead of doubling his efforts to be the best, he gets frustrated and gets worse. I think that's why Vanney has yet to pull Altidore even when he's having a shitty game. If you start benching him for not being good enough, he may never recover. Vanney either has to continue to have faith in him (in gametime and the press) or he has to give up on him entirely.

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I disagreed with you the last time, but now I'm seeing it. I didn't want it to be true, but it really does look like he's down on himself a bit.

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Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud

The third option is that our midfield plays garbage when pressed. When this happens we resort to long balling it to Jozy from deep in our own end so he is trying to win aerial battles just beyond the centre of the pitch. Not much scoring from way out there and he isn't the kind of forward to win a ball there and tear towards goal on a breakaway. He tried it a few times but is too slow to beat defenders and he gets no support usually because everyone is playing so deep and only Seba makes runs. Also, because we can't advance the ball in a timely manner beyond midfield, Jozy tracks back all over the place to recover it and is almost never near goal when he should be. He was on the wing lots of times Saturday and that's not where a target striker should be. He's pulling himself out his proper position to help our failing mids and from there, will get no chances. His confidence is probably low too. Mine would be. You could go matches on end without a sniff of the ball unless you actively go and get it.

Blame should be placed fairly. Yeah, Jozy blew that header against SKC. That was him. He fell on the ball in NY. That was him too. For the other 179 minutes of both those matches our midfield was glued to the spot trying to see how many neutral or back passes we could complete in a row with moving at all. Until that gets fixed Jozy will be a non-factor and we will cough up more goals because we always have giveaways in our own end because we rarely make it into the offensive third.

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Jozy is really good using his strength to muscle into positions during buildup and playing the ball from feet. He's not a target man, despite his size and the temptation to play him as one. He is much better with the ball at his feet than on his head.

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Originally Posted by Detroit_TFC

He's not a target striker.

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Yes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OgtheDim

And yet Bendik kept pumping up balls to him and he'd actually win a good % compared to all our past strikers (except Dichio). I applaud his effort out there but its darn close to the wrong way to play Jozy.

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I'd say it's not just close, it is the wrong way to play him. If you look at our better matches, I remember him being active and involved in the buildup and using his strength to hold off defenders while playing the ball with his feet in buildup. But in the air, he doesn't have the same touch and doesn't get as involved. Pressure on our mids means they try to hoof it out of harm's way and Jozy isn't the guy for that.

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Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud

But we long ball it to him like he is one. Doesn't matter what he supposed to be, it's what we're using him like. That's how we're using him.

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We are not using him right and it's showing. Our lack of ability to cope with the high press is part of the problem as teams are pressing our mids into making bad decisions (or hasty ones) in possession.

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Originally Posted by Jack

We are not using him right and it's showing. Our lack of ability to cope with the high press is part of the problem as teams are pressing our mids into making bad decisions (or hasty ones) in possession.

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Problem is, I expect to see a lot more of that going forward and if we don't, then it shows which teams either aren't doing their homework or have managers as arrogant/naive with their own systems as ours.

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Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud

Problem is, I expect to see a lot more of that going forward and if we don't, then it shows which teams either aren't doing their homework or have managers as arrogant/naive with their own systems as ours.

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Vanney needs to drill these guys on breaking that high press, or we're going to be screwed. I mean, the general wisdom is that a high press is vulnerable to a good ball over the top, but we don't seem to be executing that, either.