Match Day 6- Minnesota @ TFC Friday April 19 8pm- Given You More

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Originally Posted by ag futbol

I’m not going to pass judgement on Manning here but hopefully the club still goes the full distance to keep players happy on and off the field. That looked to be a big part of our success in 16-17.

Jozy’s frustrated but who wouldn’t be at that moment?

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Yeah, I understand he is frustrated and all, but this is not a good look for him Imo. You should try and not go public with these things, slam your boss like that, especially with the theatrics of slamming the table, etc. He wears his heart on his sleeve, I understand that, and has been a great player for us, but like I said I really don't appreciate players doing this type of thing. He should have tried to resolve this , get answers some other way, or at the very least raise this issue in another way / time / place.

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Originally Posted by notthesun

What surprises me is that Altidore just re-signed long-term. Presumably Manning would have been heavily involved in those negotiations.

To come out this strongly about this means it's been bothering him for a while. He says the trainer was canned when Seba left, so this has all been going on in the background as he extended his contract with us.

Being this at-odds with the team president right after re-signing for 4 years is not normal.

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The “locker room dissonance” that had been going around was not just Seba wanting a contract renewal for bux and VdW, streetwear enthusiast from Outofcontract FC, being VdW.

If Jozy is speaking out on the record about this it’s pretty obvious that it’s not just “he’s mad he got injured.”

Teams have cliques and players have affinities to certain staff over others. If you fire the wrong people you can run afoul of certain players. No one is “above the club,” but it happens all the time. Jozy talked about injuries being a thing of the past and specifically spoke to this point in the past — now he’s injured and, worse yet, he seems to feel that it could have been avoided.

Pep fired an incredibly famous German shaman and it didn’t go over well — back to injecting horse placenta into Bayern players at a mountainside retreat after the coach is gone (not that it helped future TFC superstar winger Arjen Robben get healthy).

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Originally Posted by azorean

Yeah, I understand he is frustrated and all, but this is not a good look for him Imo. You should try and not go public with these things, slam your boss like that, especially with the theatrics of slamming the table, etc. He wears his heart on his sleeve, I understand that, and has been a great player for us, but like I said I really don't appreciate players doing this type of thing. He should have tried to resolve this , get answers some other way, or at the very least raise this issue in another way / time / place.

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Agreed, putting your senior leadership on blast is never a winning look.

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Originally Posted by Mikmacdo

Ciman was good tonight, stop making him the scapegoat. When moor fucks up no one says anything. I'd like to see ciman start with Moor next game and auro will be starting next week. Let's see how that back four looks.

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Definitely start ciman on Saturday.
You can't sit mavinga.
Moor made those two bad passes in the midfield last week. Cost us two points.
Ciman saved a goal off the goal line in Philadelphia getting us 3 points.

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Originally Posted by azorean

Yeah, I understand he is frustrated and all, but this is not a good look for him Imo. You should try and not go public with these things, slam your boss like that, especially with the theatrics of slamming the table, etc. He wears his heart on his sleeve, I understand that, and has been a great player for us, but like I said I really don't appreciate players doing this type of thing. He should have tried to resolve this , get answers some other way, or at the very least raise this issue in another way / time / place.

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Originally Posted by ag futbol

Agreed, putting your senior leadership on blast is never a winning look.

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Unless they messed up big time. Last season was abysmal and this season they haven’t really seemed as deft in their dealings. We got Pozo after the “transfersoap” and the signings that were supposed to be here weeks ago never showed up.

Jozy has been savaged in the US media and among USMNT supporters for what they see as his role in the T&T debacle. He said his hamstring issues were over, probably specifically because of this guy, and now here we are again.

FO has to be accountable in some way for their mistakes, and this is one. They’re also silent on everything and there’s no real media to break stories. Glad a player spoke out instead of hearing nothing or a story spun by media conglomerates that own the team.

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Originally Posted by OgtheDim

So the Chicago lineup - except Ciman in for Moor. Going to need to score 4.

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We all need to buy you a beer, right you were!

Hamilton seemed to have some major problems with attitude & workrate in previous years; I think that was a big reason he didn't play much (and was dropped & re-signed). For the most part, he seems to have turned that around. Teams will eventually figure them out, but we'll have some chances if Akinola & Hamilton have to play together. Too bad that Boyd doesn't seem to be working out; he wasn't even on the bench tonight.

Man sucks about Altidore.

I agree Bono needs to sit, but I think we're being too hopeful about Westberg. I thought he was great at distribution, and he came out really well once or twice when he had to retrieve a cross in a crowd. Also great job on that breakaway last game. However I didn't think Westberg was very quick, or a great shot stopper. If Westberg had played tonight vs. Minnesota, I bet he doesn't commit that gaffe that Bono did on the long ball. However I think he doesn't stop one or two shots that Bono did stop tonight.

I think we really need a winger AND another CB. We get too bogged down in the centre of the park for long stretches, until the other team eventually gets a turnover & breakaway. We need some quality on the wing to stretch the field, provide another reliable attack route, and free up some space for Pozuelo to operate in the middle. Let's get it done Manning & Curtis!!!

Bono is a fucking disaster, Mavinga not much better.


It's true though Ciman has been the best performing CB.

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Originally Posted by azorean

Yeah, I understand he is frustrated and all, but this is not a good look for him Imo. You should try and not go public with these things, slam your boss like that, especially with the theatrics of slamming the table, etc. He wears his heart on his sleeve, I understand that, and has been a great player for us, but like I said I really don't appreciate players doing this type of thing. He should have tried to resolve this , get answers some other way, or at the very least raise this issue in another way / time / place.

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"You should try and not go public" -- what do you know how long Jozy has been trying to not go public? "He should have tried to resolve it" -- do you know how long he's tried to resolve it? "Or at the very least raise this issue in another way / time /place" -- do you know how often he's tried to raise it in other ways / times / places?

It seems that Manning has been a bit absent, yet he's making decisions the players have to live with. These transfersoaps have been going on way too long, and Manning / Curtis have been flying around alot. Who knows how busy Manning has also been as president of the Argonauts, what with various negotiations happening recently, and CFL players about to vote on a strike.

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Originally Posted by Auzzy

We all need to buy you a beer, right you were!

Hamilton seemed to have some major problems with attitude & workrate in previous years; I think that was a big reason he didn't play much (and was dropped & re-signed). For the most part, he seems to have turned that around. Teams will eventually figure them out, but we'll have some chances if Akinola & Hamilton have to play together. Too bad that Boyd doesn't seem to be working out; he wasn't even on the bench tonight.

Man sucks about Altidore.

I agree Bono needs to sit, but I think we're being too hopeful about Westberg. I thought he was great at distribution, and he came out really well once or twice when he had to retrieve a cross in a crowd. Also great job on that breakaway last game. However I didn't think Westberg was very quick, or a great shot stopper. If Westberg had played tonight vs. Minnesota, I bet he doesn't commit that gaffe that Bono did on the long ball. However I think he doesn't stop one or two shots that Bono did stop tonight.

I think we really need a winger AND another CB. We get too bogged down in the centre of the park for long stretches, until the other team eventually gets a turnover & breakaway. We need some quality on the wing to stretch the field, provide another reliable attack route, and free up some space for Pozuelo to operate in the middle. Let's get it done Manning & Curtis!!!

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Westberg isn’t very good either. I’ve seen him play at Auxerre and, well, he’s not great. We ended up with him through the Vanney France pipeline and he’s domestic. He’s not going to bail us out when we need it. Bono made a few good saves but also gave up a lot of goals, with at least one blatantly egregious error.

A lot of our “young” players are part of the same clique, and either they haven’t got chances, haven’t shown up, or got banished.

What do the following names have in common? Hamilton, Chapman, Bono, Telfer, Raheem, Hasler, etc.

Honestly, you could convince me we need a TAM keeper more than a TAM CB. I think the main issue is that keepers can be really hit or miss. Julio Cesar was good for us but not lights out by any means, for example. And guys like Mannone or Tyton who you might expect to be good MLS keepers have left something to be desired this season.

I think the TAM CB is necessary. You need a leader back there and someone who is rock solid.

There are too many “adventures” happening right now with both Ciman and Mavinga. At the end of the day, a whole game worth of work for a CB can be undone by one bad mistake. A good CB is consistent above all else.thats not to say we never get scored on but unforced errors are kept to a minimum

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Originally Posted by portu

Honestly, you could convince me we need a TAM keeper more than a TAM CB. I think the main issue is that keepers can be really hit or miss. Julio Cesar was good for us but not lights out by any means, for example. And guys like Mannone or Tyton who you might expect to be good MLS keepers have left something to be desired this season.

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The problem is that GK is the stupidest position to buy for. City with all the means in the world bought Ederson, and he’s a dumbass at times and can let in a boatload of goals due to defensive mistakes. Is he good? Yeah, but today we showed that even if your keeping and defense are weak you can win just by scoring more goals.

We won a cup with Bono, a former keeper saved a goal that would have won us another cup, and we had a Cesar but we still sucked.

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Originally Posted by ag futbol

I think the TAM CB is necessary. You need a leader back there and someone who is rock solid.

There are too many “adventures” happening right now with both Ciman and Mavinga. At the end of the day, a whole game worth of work for a CB can be undone by one bad mistake. A good CB is consistent above all else.thats not to say we never get scored on but unforced errors are kept to a minimum

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TFC wants to play possession football so they need people who play out the back. Ciman, historically, is good on the ball, can take corners and freekicks, and is relatively tall (plus he’s bald). Mavinga is the best last ditch tackler in MLS, and is also good on the ball.

Our fullbacks play really high, and both Auro and Morrow (and maybe Laryea) aren’t great defensively. Couple that with the fact that Delgado is playing very high and Pozo spends too much time in our lives end...

Moor is done, but it isn’t easy to find good central halfs who are also leaders and fit within a certain budget.

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Originally Posted by stegosaurus

TFC wants to play possession football so they need people who play out the back. Ciman, historically, is good on the ball, can take corners and freekicks, and is relatively tall (plus he’s bald). Mavinga is the best last ditch tackler in MLS, and is also good on the ball.

Our fullbacks play really high, and both Auro and Morrow (and maybe Laryea) aren’t great defensively. Couple that with the fact that Delgado is playing very high and Pozo spends too much time in our lives end...

Moor is done, but it isn’t easy to find good central halfs who are also leaders and fit within a certain budget.

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I think I read somewhere that Ciman had a 97% pass accuracy tonight.
Not counting unsuccessful long passes.

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Originally Posted by stevep

I think I read somewhere that Ciman had a 97% pass accuracy tonight.
Not counting unsuccessful long passes.

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Long passes are still passes though....

Not sold on Ciman. On his passing, absolutely. And he has moments. But in general he has a not played up to the level we have a right to expect given his pedigree - with the exception of one game. There is a reason he is not playing when Moor is available. And he cost us the second goal.
Bono is not commanding his box. He should have flattened Quintero on that play and been screaming at Layrea to let him get the ball - or played two steps off and caught the bounce. It is a significant area of weakness for him and more important than his distribution as it leads directly to goals. He cost the first goal.
And there is something wrong with Mavinga. His play is worse - he needs the incredible recovery tackles often because of his own lack of positioning. He cost the third goal, obviously.
But with all three, there isn't an obvious replacement at the moment. When Moor comes back, who sits? Zavaleta is a sub only at this point. And Westberg commands his box, has great distribution - but is not nearly the shot stopper that Bono is, on the evidence of one game.
The bad thing is, teams know that all they have to do is attack and we will concede. Three individual terrible errors in one game - a game that could and should have been 4 or 5 to 1

In the light of day:

Altidore cares about winning for this team,

thinks what he needs to stay healthy to do that was thrown off for bad reasons,

doesn't feel he had the chance to get that fixed or get his side of the arguement heard,

gets injured

& went public with his concerns


The difference between this & "we need more men" is the pointed at one person nature of the discussion


*****

Now, if I'm Manning, I'm getting out in front of this by stating

"Jozy, he's frustrated. I can understand what he's saying. We're always working on & looking for better ways to ensure all our players are able to succeed. That's why we have invested in the facilities we have & the staff to make sure this team can put out its best every week. We are going to talk about this. And we are going to figure something out. Now, I'm not going to come back out here & tell you what that is going to be. But, I can understand his frustration in the moment. "


A year from now there is going to be an interview with Manning where he says "Well, I learned some things from that time...."

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Originally Posted by OgtheDim

A year from now there is going to be an interview with Manning where he says "Well, I learned some things from that time...."

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Like, maybe: don't blow a player off to the point where he has to go to the press if he wants to talk to you?


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[Has Bill explained the reasoning?]
You can ask him. He’s not here, he’s not around, so you can’t find him. You go to his office, he’s not there, he’s traveling, he’s this and that. I wish I knew, but I don’t know.

I only saw the highlights but the game was a lot more interesting than I thought it would be. The worry about injuries was more valid it seems.

Pozolove is a thing. Did Seba ever have four games in a row like this? It's his first four games!

I got a lot to say about Altidore later today when I get a few minutes

How was the new pitch up close? It looked OK on the highlights.

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Originally Posted by OgtheDim

In the light of day:

Altidore cares about winning for this team,

thinks what he needs to stay healthy to do that was thrown off for bad reasons,

doesn't feel he had the chance to get that fixed or get his side of the arguement heard,

gets injured

& went public with his concerns


The difference between this & "we need more men" is the pointed at one person nature of the discussion


*****

Now, if I'm Manning, I'm getting out in front of this by stating

"Jozy, he's frustrated. I can understand what he's saying. We're always working on & looking for better ways to ensure all our players are able to succeed. That's why we have invested in the facilities we have & the staff to make sure this team can put out its best every week. We are going to talk about this. And we are going to figure something out. Now, I'm not going to come back out here & tell you what that is going to be. But, I can understand his frustration in the moment. "

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Well crafted. Spot on.

Some good reporting here from Molinaro


https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/tfc-...ainer-dispute/


Bradley response & fact Manning was at the game

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Originally Posted by Mikmacdo

I think he overstretched it on that last pass or attempt on goal. I doubt he will be out long. Let's see how good Hamilton looks with pozuelo. Also go sign a winger asap! Moor is back next week. I thought ciman was decent today I would start him with Moor and sit mavinga for a game.

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Great win!

I know it is football but the league needs to avoid Northern teams playing in the evening in the spring, i get the fall when games matter you may not have a choice and high fan interest. But this is spring and the season just starting, there are enough southern teams now to let them play on a Friday in the evening. It was cool/cold, wet and shit conditions for the game. No respect for the fans or the players.

If Jozy is playing in a game 5-6 degrees warmer during the day, injuries may not happen. It is just stupid by the team, TSN and the league. These are the small things that will stop the growth of a pretty decent product, because it really can be an exciting game.

Just my thoughts. COYRs

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Originally Posted by Bushmancan

Great win!

I know it is football but the league needs to avoid Northern teams playing in the evening in the spring, i get the fall when games matter you may not have a choice and high fan interest. But this is spring and the season just starting, there are enough southern teams now to let them play on a Friday in the evening. It was cool/cold, wet and shit conditions for the game. No respect for the fans or the players.

If Jozy is playing in a game 5-6 degrees warmer during the day, injuries may not happen. It is just stupid by the team, TSN and the league. These are the small things that will stop the growth of a pretty decent product, because it really can be an exciting game.

Just my thoughts. COYRs

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Tin foil hat here - Are we forced to have so many early games to try and save the pitch for Argos - i hope not.

Our early season schedule was designed to help us get through another deep CCL run.

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Originally Posted by Bushmancan

Great win!

I know it is football but the league needs to avoid Northern teams playing in the evening in the spring, i get the fall when games matter you may not have a choice and high fan interest. But this is spring and the season just starting, there are enough southern teams now to let them play on a Friday in the evening. It was cool/cold, wet and shit conditions for the game. No respect for the fans or the players.

If Jozy is playing in a game 5-6 degrees warmer during the day, injuries may not happen. It is just stupid by the team, TSN and the league. These are the small things that will stop the growth of a pretty decent product, because it really can be an exciting game.

Just my thoughts. COYRs

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100%

I think we need to be patient with Bono. It wasn’t that long ago when TFC screwed up re Frei. Bono may have better credentials than Frei did, at the time, and he is still young. There may be a keeper coaching issue that needs addressing.

Osorio played well. His forward movement with the ball is better when Pozo plays behind him. I thought the reverse would be true, but this compels him to make quicker decisions (we know how easily he screws up when he second guesses himself).

Delgado, Morrow, and the two new guys, were below avg. They have their moments, both good and bad.

Bradley is regressing, or, just getting a bit slower as he ages. No his fault that he has to cover for a horrible back line.

Mavinga is not the same player I previously called the best tackler in the league. Not sure what it is, he is seems to be in a funk.

Ciman should stay on the bench.

Pozo played great.

Altidore’s hamstring problem should have sidelined him, he made it worse by playing.

The pitch looked nice, could a sharp turn, or dug in cleat, get stuck in those fibers?

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Originally Posted by OgtheDim

Our early season schedule was designed to help us get through another deep CCL run.

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100% agree on the CCL, but that doesn’t mean we need to play on a cold, wet Friday night. Maybe a cold, wet Saturday... lol. Those few degrees can make a big difference... be well

Alright, guess I'll be the one to ask the hard hitting questions in here....

What's up with Auro's hair?

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Originally Posted by Voodooman

Alright, guess I'll be the one to ask the hard hitting questions in here....

What's up with Auro's hair?

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He’s a Brazilian footballer.

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Originally Posted by 69Chevy396

I think we need to be patient with Bono. It wasn’t that long ago when TFC screwed up re Frei. Bono may have better credentials than Frei did, at the time, and he is still young. There may be a keeper coaching issue that needs addressing.

Osorio played well. His forward movement with the ball is better when Pozo plays behind him. I thought the reverse would be true, but this compels him to make quicker decisions (we know how easily he screws up when he second guesses himself).

Delgado, Morrow, and the two new guys, were below avg. They have their moments, both good and bad.

Bradley is regressing, or, just getting a bit slower as he ages. No his fault that he has to cover for a horrible back line.

Mavinga is not the same player I previously called the best tackler in the league. Not sure what it is, he is seems to be in a funk.

Ciman should stay on the bench.

Pozo played great.

Altidore’s hamstring problem should have sidelined him, he made it worse by playing.

The pitch looked nice, could a sharp turn, or dug in cleat, get stuck in those fibers?

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Bono has sucked for over a year, he's had plenty of opportunities to turn it around. Give westburg a run of games and let Bono play in the Canadian championships and some mid week games.

Ciman played well. Sure he got beat on that corner but the striker pushed off on him. At least he didn't give away a dumb penalty.

How can Jozy blame the training staff when he admitted his hamstring was giving him problems but played anyway? Oh well now we can see what Hamilton is made of.

Bradley isn't much of an impact player anymore and you can't have that as a DP. Hopefully he returns on a tam deal otherwise let him go.

I'm a little worried about DeLeon on the right wing, I think he's missing auro. I wonder if DeLeon could play a defensive midfielder role beside Bradley in a 4-2-3-1. I don't think he has the speed to be a winger.