Match day 26 - TFC @ Portland Wed August 29 10:30pm - Burnng Down the House

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Originally Posted by reggie

i really dont know what people expect with all these injuries.im giving the club a mulligan this season.but they have to look at the training staff and training methods

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I agree - they took a shot at "all-time" glory in CCL and in retrospect they screwed over their MLS season as a result in my opinion -- however, if the price for the memories and glory of 2016 (playoffs), 2017, and the CCL run in 2018, was this crapfest of a 2018 MLS season - I would do it all over again in a heartbeat ---- flags/banners fly forever and that star stays on the jersey forever too ---- you think our rivals in Mtl wouldn't have traded a crap season in 2017 to have beaten us in 2016? Think back to what it was like to be a TFC supporter from 2007-2014 or so --- you wouldn't have taken this 2015-2018 run (with its ups and downs) in a heartbeat?

Put it this way for the Leafs fans in the room ---- if you told me the Leafs get a Cup in 2019 and they don't make the payoffs in 2020 due to lingering injuries from an extended playoff run (or some such reason) -- sign me up for that deal right now.....50+ years is a long time to wait.....ha ha ha......

Our ideal lineup can beat anyone, I firmly believe that. The problem is many players in our ideal lineup are aging or injury-prone and while I doubt it ever gets this bad again, this isn't a problem that is going to resolve itself.

We need to start acquiring younger key players.

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Originally Posted by reggie

it may be too late ..but i bet you that not too many teams would want to play our full squad in the playoffs

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I'm pretty darn sure nobody really wants to play us now. Portland were not happy in the first half.

Last night was about trying to grab a point, work on chemistry, & give some kids some minutes. First thing didn't work in the end as we were never going to keep them off the scoring sheet. Last 2 did.

More a game about next year then this one.

Although I would say Chapman is beginning to get past his usefulness. Guy couldn't make a forward pass.

Well, I didn't expect much from this game in the first place. And more so after seeing the starting lineup.

-Janson. Turning out to be a good pick up and unlucky to not to get a goal. He already seems to know how to be at the right place at the right time.

-Fraser. If he can work on his defending, he'll be a good passing DM. Unfortunately I think he's lack of speed is going to hamper his career, unless he plays beside an athletic destroyer DM who can compensate for him

-Osorio Giovinco. Definitely missed. Altidore got swarmed and lack of movement from midfield made TFC attack predictable. And the ball moved so slow from the back to the front on attack. Giovinco getting double teamed creates space for others, and Osorio has been very good at taking advantage of that.

-Defence. Oh well. Enough said that injuries is killing the defence and a stud commanding CB is a must for next season.

6 pts out of playoff spot, but it's hard to see TFC making the grounds, if the defence keeps being so shaky due to all the factors.

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Originally Posted by Yohan

Well, I didn't expect much from this game in the first place. And more so after seeing the starting lineup.

-Janson. Turning out to be a good pick up and unlucky to not to get a goal. He already seems to know how to be at the right place at the right time.

-Fraser. If he can work on his defending, he'll be a good passing DM. Unfortunately I think he's lack of speed is going to hamper his career, unless he plays beside an athletic destroyer DM who can compensate for him

-Osorio Giovinco. Definitely missed. Altidore got swarmed and lack of movement from midfield made TFC attack predictable. And the ball moved so slow from the back to the front on attack. Giovinco getting double teamed creates space for others, and Osorio has been very good at taking advantage of that.

-Defence. Oh well. Enough said that injuries is killing the defence and a stud commanding CB is a must for next season.

6 pts out of playoff spot, but it's hard to see TFC making the grounds, if the defence keeps being so shaky due to all the factors.

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Janson I completely agree. Its too bad we didn't pick him up at the start instead.

Fraser still has a few things to work on but his vision on the pitch is 2nd to none, better than Bradley this season imo.

We're really missing Drew Moor & Beita this year. Such a difference.

Giovinco & Oso I'm okay with having the night off however I wasn't okay with Jozy having the night off.
I'm finished with Jozy. This is the type of game he has to take on by himself and he simply couldn't do it. Lack of service was one thing but he was positionally awful for me.
Would have much rather seen Akinola or Hamilton start up top with Janson.

Delgado has taken a major step back this year. Obv should have been sent off. Him & Jay were lost.
Really hope it isn't too late for us. I'm disappointed to see us come away with nothing to show from that match apart from the promise of Janson.

There has to be some way for Fraser to get faster. Nobody can actually be that slow all the time. I think there is a lot of potential there.

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Originally Posted by ag futbol

There has to be some way for Fraser to get faster. Nobody can actually be that slow all the time. I think there is a lot of potential there.

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doesn't matter on the right team

William Carvalho looks slow as molasses and everyone picks on him as a weak link but the stats show otherwise.
Liam Fraser just needs a mustache (irwin needs to lose his)

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Originally Posted by SirBobSaget

Why are they constantly missing 4-7 starters? That's the real question. I keep saying this but red bulls are rolling along and they have had the same schedule plus lost their coach in July and have 1/4th Wages

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Bingo. Something is wrong with the trainers/medical staff.

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Originally Posted by notthesun

Well that's on Bradley.

Zero room for error from here on out.

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Disagree, - Irwin played the ball direct to player (MB) in front that was being covered with min time. This put Bradley under pressure immediately

Well they put up a better fight than I thought they could. Liam Fraser is too slow to play at this level. He is a great ball passer but his lack of speed will destine him to CPL. The new Spanish guy we got from Chicago should never see the pitch again. Janson is a decent player.

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Originally Posted by SoccMan2

Don’t worry the greatest team of all time will win every game now make the playoffs and win the MLS Cup , ya let’s keep resting players for games because they can afford to, moreover , how many games has TFC won with guys like Chapman, Telfer ,Fraser, Hamilton on the field together not many I don’t think, when are these guys ever going to step up they have been giving so many opportunities this season and have done nothing and people complain why they don’t play the Canadians please!

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Always right on ......My rant ...I thought when they ask me to buy tickets , mlse was presuming it was for always the top line up ? Not pre-season Drabble like many of these games ? I simply don’t understand as paid pro’s every game no matter the consequences should be important . I blame Vanney but that’ll be irking for many , Yet of course they increase the prices with indifference . Imagine the ‘leafs’ cough saying we’re sitting Mathews and Taverares because we’re playing Arizona . If MLS and it’s bullshit hypocarcy of letting teams continue with crap fields is the problem then , give the fans relief , like Atlantic on 50% cut drinks and food or , at least low $ Canadian championship games ( ridiculous pricing .) To end when Bradley is at the back it’s a joke , we lose at great midfielder , and get another easy to beat defender , to predictable .

I hope to god we put 5 in our own net in the first half of the first "champions" league fixture next season.

That stupid pointless tournament has ruined an entire season. If they do it again next year, I'll be livid.

This ! So it’s on Bez ? I do feel Vanney fails to pick up on the youngsters when they are on a roll though , and play hunches say , he’s very mechanical , and successful at it , but soccer isn’t always pure tactics or everyone here would be coach of the year ;). Mlse asks to pay for those star players but what do we get most games ? ......It’s a problem .

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Originally Posted by Red4ever

I hope to god we put 5 in our own net in the first half of the first "champions" league fixture next season.

That stupid pointless tournament has ruined an entire season. If they do it again next year, I'll be livid.

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WTF ??? I can't even. I dunno. What? Is this real?

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Originally Posted by dow117

Disagree, - Irwin played the ball direct to player (MB) in front that was being covered with min time. This put Bradley under pressure immediately

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I agree at face value that’s what it looks like. My question would be, does this team (due to some pretty weak defenders on the ball outside of Mavinga) plan to always play Bradley through those situations? Does Bradley himself demand it?

We are consistently playing balls to him that are cringe worthy but we get away with it because he’s outrageously good at picking the ball off the back line. I don’t think people quite comprehend how much of an important function he is serving in doing that and how much his teammates struggle to get the ball into midfield without him.

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Originally Posted by lobo

WTF ??? I can't even. I dunno. What? Is this real?

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Did exhausting / injuring ourselves for a tournament in February and March damage our ability to compete in the league? Unquestionably.

Is the league the top priority? I think most fans would say that.

Now there will various schools of thought whether that action is worth repeating. To me, as my opinion states, it is not.

Many people may take pleasure in winning the prestigious champions league tournament in Europe. It's non unionized Mexican equivalent (for you Simpsons fans) does not hold the same gravitas.

Treat it like they treat the league cup in england this year. It has ruined our season.

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Originally Posted by Red4ever

Did exhausting / injuring ourselves for a tournament in February and March damage our ability to compete in the league? Unquestionably.

Is the league the top priority? I think most fans would say that.

...

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A tad mixed, to be honest.


Regardless, current management puts a high emphasis on the CCL. I would be very suprised if they don't go for the quadruple next year.

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Originally Posted by OgtheDim

A tad mixed, to be honest.


Regardless, current management puts a high emphasis on the CCL. I would be very suprised if they don't go for the quadruple next year.

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Come on. Fans not supporters.

The majority of people had no idea the champions league existed. They were educated on it because of the run last year.

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Originally Posted by Red4ever

Come on. Fans not supporters.

The majority of people had no idea the champions league existed. They were educated on it because of the run last year.

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Right. It wasn't our previous 5 appearances in the CCL going back to 2009, it was just last year.

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/images...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by SirBobSaget http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/images...post-right.png
Why are they constantly missing 4-7 starters? That's the real question. I keep saying this but red bulls are rolling along and they have had the same schedule plus lost their coach in July and have 1/4th Wages

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Originally Posted by DinamoTFC

Bingo. Something is wrong with the trainers/medical staff.

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Or could it possibly be that they are playing on a field of partially sand, which is leading to the injuries? Did they have this problem before the Argos started timeshring BMO field? Compare the injuries has suffered over the last three years since the Argos moved in to the previous years for both grass and turf.

Perhaps good soccer can't be played on a field that is also in use for pointyball. Does Houston have a similar issue?

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Originally Posted by lobo

Right. It wasn't our previous 5 appearances in the CCL going back to 2009, it was just last year.

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He’s right to imply it’s not widely understood by the public at large or more casual fans. That’s just the reality of it.

I’m not the biggest backer. When they fix the scheduling and there are less doormat teams i’ll be more interested.

The issues this year are not just one specific thing (CCL, Field, Vanney, Physio Staff, injury bug, etc).
It is everything combined.

CCL drained our main starters early in the year (after having next to no off-season for 2 years in a row: 2016-2017 MLS Cup runs, maybe had 4 months "off" total when other teams had 8-10 total depending on playoff finishes and CCL participation).

The lack of an off-season for our players to fully de-compress has taken its toll mentally as well as physically (look at Moor's injury in training, Hagglund's nagging injuries over the last 2 years, Mavinga's issues this year, and so on and so on) -- its not just the staff! It is the travel, multiple surfaces (with varying degrees of quality), more games, temperature/climate changes, and no real recovery time.

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Originally Posted by lobo

Right. It wasn't our previous 5 appearances in the CCL going back to 2009, it was just last year.

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They were over after a cup of coffee with the exception of the Beckham game. Which was more about Beckham.

Numbers
30,000 plus for playoff semi final against Columbus with tickets going for $100s
23,000 for a champions league semi final after winning the MLS cup with tickets available at the box office.

(28,000 for the second game of the year vs Salt Lake, 4 days earlier, btw)

There's no serious argument that the regular TFC fan who goes to games cares more about a 3 round tournament than a 30+ game season.

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Originally Posted by Cas87

The issues this year are not just one specific thing (CCL, Field, Vanney, Physio Staff, injury bug, etc).
It is everything combined.

CCL drained our main starters early in the year (after having next to no off-season for 2 years in a row: 2016-2017 MLS Cup runs, maybe had 4 months "off" total when other teams had 8-10 total depending on playoff finishes and CCL participation).

The lack of an off-season for our players to fully de-compress has taken its toll mentally as well as physically (look at Moor's injury in training, Hagglund's nagging injuries over the last 2 years, Mavinga's issues this year, and so on and so on) -- its not just the staff! It is the travel, multiple surfaces (with varying degrees of quality), more games, temperature/climate changes, and no real recovery time.

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Spot on.

^Good summary. Also Bez/Manning gambled and lost on the vdW “upgrade” of Beita (it wasn’t one) and the Aketxe thing. Combined that is around $1.5M of wasted TAM. That could have bought a lot of depth.

Of course they gambled and won the year before, with the Vazquez upgrade over Johnson (a home run) and Ricketts. You can't win em all though.

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Originally Posted by Red4ever

They were over after a cup of coffee with the exception of the Beckham game. Which was more about Beckham.

Numbers
30,000 plus for playoff semi final against Columbus with tickets going for $100s
23,000 for a champions league semi final after winning the MLS cup with tickets available at the box office.

(28,000 for the second game of the year vs Salt Lake, 4 days earlier, btw)

There's no serious argument that the regular TFC fan who goes to games cares more about a 3 round tournament than a 30+ game season.

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If MLS, MLSE and TFC themselves begin to really push that (with the new format in particular) there is a chance that you could see TFC versus Real Madrid, River Plate, etc. on a FIFA stage I think fans will care a bit more than the previous times we played (when there was a general sense that MLS teams were going to get killed and nowhere near the final).

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Originally Posted by Cas87

If MLS, MLSE and TFC themselves begin to really push that (with the new format in particular) there is a chance that you could see TFC versus Real Madrid, River Plate, etc. on a FIFA stage I think fans will care a bit more than the previous times we played (when there was a general sense that MLS teams were going to get killed and nowhere near the final).

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Yeah, listen, that's perfectly fair. I'm sure our season would be considered necessary growing pains to get to that point.

But that's only if you value getting to that point.

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Originally Posted by Initial B

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/images...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by SirBobSaget http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/images...post-right.png
Why are they constantly missing 4-7 starters? That's the real question. I keep saying this but red bulls are rolling along and they have had the same schedule plus lost their coach in July and have 1/4th Wages





Or could it possibly be that they are playing on a field of partially sand, which is leading to the injuries? Did they have this problem before the Argos started timeshring BMO field? Compare the injuries has suffered over the last three years since the Argos moved in to the previous years for both grass and turf.

Perhaps good soccer can't be played on a field that is also in use for pointyball. Does Houston have a similar issue?

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I dont believe this. Most injuries are hamstring or quad issues, same reoccuring issues. They only play at BMO for half the schedule. Whats their excuse for constantly getting injured on the road or at training faciliets. You're telling me these boys are so physically/muscluarly weak that one game at home causes 5 injuries per game. I dont buy it. It has something to do with training protocols and muscle imbalances.

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Originally Posted by Red4ever

I hope to god we put 5 in our own net in the first half of the first "champions" league fixture next season.

That stupid pointless tournament has ruined an entire season. If they do it again next year, I'll be livid.

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Champions league is never a pointless tournament. It's a fantastic tournament that pits the best against the best. I was happy at the time and wanted TFC to go all in regardless if it caused us a slow start in league play. The way we have imploded, no one could predict and is not a result of only CCL. Look at the Red Bulls, they played nearly the same amount of games and they are killing the league leading the supporters shield race. They play a high pressing tempo game which you could argue they run and cover more ground than we do. I want us next year to go for it again but perhaps with more balance.

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Originally Posted by ensco

^Good summary. Also Bez/Manning gambled and lost on the vdW “upgrade” of Beita (it wasn’t one) and the Aketxe thing. Combined that is around $1.5M of wasted TAM. That could have bought a lot of depth.

Of course they gambled and won the year before, with the Vazquez upgrade over Johnson (a home run) and Ricketts. You can't win em all though.

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I don't necessarily think that FO "lost" on the vdW gamble.....I think of it more a "break even".....

Consider that vdW has been moved all along the back line this year filling in for injuries, and that its reasonable to assume that Beita may have actually been another name on our injury report this year.
vdW hasn't been terrible, but fair to say inconsistent, which is logical considering how many different combos we've had on defence this year.
And even with Beita being here and healthy, there was no way we could've moved him in to fill spaces on the back line the way vdW was able to this year.
Beita himself would've done nothing to change the team's record this year.

For me, its unfair to judge vdW based on this season.

I just wish that it was Janson we bought in the offseason rather than Aketxe.....