Bill Manning speaks October 6th...

I received a phone call from my ticket rep that Bill Manning will be giving a Q & A on Saturday October 6th from 2 to 3 pm. That's before the Vancouver game starts at 5:00pm. It will be at BMO Field but she wasn't sure what 'room' it will be in (maybe counting how many people want to go).

Did anyone else get a call like this? Maybe because I am a season ticket holder? Maybe because I'm not renewing? (personal reasons for me--ie. They are using less Canadians than their bad old days and it will get worse with more new recruits Mr TAM and Mr GAM getting bigger roles next year).

I did not receive a call but I did renew.

Dom

I renewed. I am not so sure that it was a good business decision by me to renew.

my tickets for tonights game are valued at $97. I could buy similar seats to mine for around $70 today.
in March and April i would expect same type of discounted price, maybe even into May you could probably get tickets cheap. for zlatan triple the price, but next years zlatan game is in L.A.

my fear is TFC will be really good again next year and prices will be unaffordable for me. for example if i was not a season ticket holder i could have never afforded to go to the zlatan game. it would have cost me $700 for two equal seats.
That was a great game and it reminded me why I love going to TFC games so much.

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Originally Posted by stevep

I renewed. I am not so sure that it was a good business decision by me to renew.

my tickets for tonights game are valued at $97. I could buy similar seats to mine for around $70 today.
in March and April i would expect same type of discounted price, maybe even into May you could probably get tickets cheap. for zlatan triple the price, but next years zlatan game is in L.A.

my fear is TFC will be really good again next year and prices will be unaffordable for me. for example if i was not a season ticket holder i could have never afforded to go to the zlatan game. it would have cost me $700 for two equal seats.
That was a great game and it reminded me why I love going to TFC games so much.

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But what can you sell them for?

I had 4 good seats for the first six years. They were something like $65 cost, $80 face.

For games like tonight's, ie later in year in a lost season, it wasn't like I could sell them for $40 or $50 each. The market (here, stubhub) just went no bid. I had to go down to $30/pair to move them on game day. Even that didn't work half the time.

No idea if that is still true, but that is why I gave up my seats.

I reconsidered getting my seats a couple of years later, but then Leiweke expanded BMO, and that sealed it for me. Unless you are in the south end, the secondary market is pretty fragile if the team isn't contending. We are decades away from having the level of support that makes being an SSH in a 30K stadium compelling economically (although I get that people have friends in their sections etc).

I take my chances and have been able to almost always pay face, throughout the run the past three years. I pay the scalpers for playoffs. It wasn't much of a premium for the NYRB or Columbus games. I paid face for 4 good tickets to the Montreal game in the 2016 playoffs. (I am very surprised to see the Zlatan game cost $700! I paid $500 for decent seats to MLS Cup.) So MLS Cup cost me an extra $300 but it doesn't take very many games like tonight's to more than compensate.

The expansion of BMO was great for buying tickets in the secondary market, but it was always bad for SSH holders, and SSH secondary sales. That chicken has probably come home to roost.

Given that the Leafs haven't done more games at BMO (I was wrong about that, I always thought multiple Leaf games there was the juice), I have zero idea how the business plan for spending $100M to expand BMO ever got approved. OK they get an incremental 5-10K to 5 or 6 MLS games a year (maybe $2M incremental revenue a year?), and they do a Leaf game and a Grey Cup every 5 years, but that has to be balanced against the fact that the expansion is actually depressing TFC and Argo SSH sales, it has to be.

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Originally Posted by ensco

But what can you sell them for?

I had 4 good seats for the first six years. They were something like $65 cost, $80 face.

For games like tonight's, ie later in year in a lost season, it wasn't like I could sell them for $40 or $50 each. The market (here, stubhub) just went no bid. I had to go down to $30/pair to move them on game day. Even that didn't work half the time.

No idea if that is still true, but that is why I gave up my seats.

I reconsidered getting my seats a couple of years later, but then Leiweke expanded BMO, and that sealed it for me. Unless you are in the south end, the secondary market is pretty fragile if the team isn't contending. We are decades away from having the level of support that makes being an SSH in a 30K stadium compelling economically (although I get that people have friends in their sections etc).

I take my chances and have been able to almost always pay face, throughout the run the past three years. I pay the scalpers for playoffs. It wasn't much of a premium for the NYRB or Columbus games. I paid face for 4 good tickets to the Montreal game in the 2016 playoffs. (I am very surprised to see the Zlatan game cost $700! I paid $500 for decent seats to MLS Cup.) So MLS Cup cost me an extra $300 but it doesn't take very many games like tonight's to more than compensate.

The expansion of BMO was great for buying tickets in the secondary market, but it was always bad for SSH holders, and SSH secondary sales. That chicken has probably come home to roost.

Given that the Leafs haven't done more games at BMO (I was wrong about that, I always thought multiple Leaf games there was the juice), I have zero idea how the business plan for spending $100M to expand BMO ever got approved. OK they get an incremental 5-10K to 5 or 6 MLS games a year (maybe $2M incremental revenue a year?), and they do a Leaf game and a Grey Cup every 5 years, but that has to be balanced against the fact that the expansion is actually depressing TFC and Argo SSH sales, it has to be.

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as of this moment i would get around $45 each so I stand to lose $105, that is provided I can sell them, which is a big if
to buy them would cost me $62 each, so I would save $70.

question: what section are you talking about? I like sections 107, 108 in the middle. i don't want to sit in the 200's or to one side of the field, i like being near the centre

btw: your very thoughtful post has confirmed my thoughts that TFC will be once again very good next year. I am almost certain of it.

^I was 222 row 2. They were fantastic seats, just beside the cameras.

To be fair, I rarely get seats as good now. But I still get decent seats. I won't sit in the east side upper deck except for a playoff, I'd rather watch on TV than do that

I would think the SS renew # this offseason will still be higher then what it was before the rebuild. If that base # is still 20K, even with the increases many of us got and this cruddy season, then the long term viability of that stadium size is solid. The bet is on a long term quality product in a town that has more soccer knowledge then any other in Canada.

The other long term play is to be nice to the City because the bigger pot of gold is the rumoured Ex site sell off.

MLSE is really good at building condos & that plot of land would probably put in about 50K of people. With the Ex gone, they could take their time over 20 years & rebuild the North, the West & the South Ends & enclose the whole thing and have a 60K stadium with a great hybrid turf suitable for any eventuality...Olympics, NFL, Global soccer league (its coming people), Rugby, whatever is necessary. Heck, they could even forego some of the condos & build a new baseball stadium right beside BMO. Cause the Jays are just never going to get as much ROI in that 80's era facility as they would in a new location served by GO, a streetcar & the waterfront LRT.


TFC & BMO is a means towards an end.

I didn't renew (because of disagreements with their labour practices and jumping on board the CPL train), but also didn't get invited to this - though the ticket agent called and spoke to me extensively a number of times.

I called TFC/MLSE a couple of weeks ago with my fistful of complaints.
I have been SSH since day one
Section 220
I felt that the 7-8% increase for 2019 was a touch too much. Felt that as an old guy on a pension, TFC increases well above inflation were just moving the day closer when they priced me out of my seat.
I also stated that the lack of extras or events was reducing the value and lessening the "club" feeling of being a SSH. I told the rep on the phone that in the bad old days (Anselmi, Winter spring to mind ) I highly valued the town hall meetings post season. After a bad year, at least I had the opportunity to be face to face with TFC leadership. Squawk, vent, some may feel that town halls just go negative, but TFC is MY club. I care, I cheer, I brood, I complain, I blog, I have opinions a plenty. I remember bluntly saying to Tom Anselmi "what makes this a club?" I do feel that access in the forms of town halls contribute to that club feeling.
My rep said that Manning was going to hold a session in October for people not renewing. She said that she would send me an invite even though I was renewing. I have not heard back.
My gut feeling is that Manning is doing damage control. I am not happy that giving an opinion and access is offered to those who are leaving the club and those loyal through thick and thin are taken for granted.
Is this a club?

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Originally Posted by Still Kicking

My gut feeling is that Manning is doing damage control. I am not happy that giving an opinion and access is offered to those who are leaving the club and those loyal through thick and thin are taken for granted.
Is this a club?

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Sadly, things are starting to change. After the recent successes, they seem to be moving in the same direction as any other sporting organisation: whatever makes them the most money.

We can complain as much as we want, but what matters in the end is the money. If they start losing a chunk of that, they'll cater themselves to those people who will no longer give them the money. Our overall direction is starting to get me dejected as well, but I hope that they don't toss us loyal fans aside.

Even though I renewed (I am giving them one more season before switching to CPL if things don't change), I admit value of being SSH isn't that great. Besides the obvious point (ticket prices being over vaulved due to lack of secondary market demand), there's no real perks (like events or access) like we used to get during old days. 15% discount we get can't even be use to buy outside of BMO field and only it's limited to TFC gear is a joke.

We have used our TFC SSH card at Real Sports Appearal numerous of times with no problem. Even in Real Sports Bar & Grill.

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Originally Posted by Laiping

We have used our TFC SSH card at Real Sports Appearal numerous of times with no problem. Even in Real Sports Bar & Grill.

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First time (before Real Sport renovation), I was able to use my discount card to purchase TFC gear only. Staff didn't accept my card for Raptors gear.

Second time (right after renovation), I was told by staff there my card is only accepted at BMO field.

As for sports grill, few years back waiter said my card wasn't valid.

So yeah, card is completely useless for me. I haven't used it since two years now.

I did not renew and was not invited to this.

Surprised to get another call today - this time from a supervisor - regarding me dropping my tickets. Change of tactics - this time an emphasis on how my tickets will be swooped up really quickly as it's a good spot and I won't get them back again... lol, ok sure.

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Originally Posted by flamehawk

I didn't renew (because of disagreements with their labour practices and jumping on board the CPL train), but also didn't get invited to this - though the ticket agent called and spoke to me extensively a number of times.

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I could personally never turn my back on the Reds. Whats wrong with TFC's labour practices? I believe the CBA with the players is in good shape after the threat of a work stoppage a few years back.

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Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto

I could personally never turn my back on the Reds. Whats wrong with TFC's labour practices? I believe the CBA with the players is in good shape after the threat of a work stoppage a few years back.

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It's more around the use of scab workers in the context of the IATSE lock out. Spoke to a number of IATSE workers and they are incensed about this.

TFC will always have a place in my heart, but would much rather support a club/league more focused on local player development (York 9/CanPL).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ensco

But what can you sell them for?

I had 4 good seats for the first six years. They were something like $65 cost, $80 face.

For games like tonight's, ie later in year in a lost season, it wasn't like I could sell them for $40 or $50 each. The market (here, stubhub) just went no bid. I had to go down to $30/pair to move them on game day. Even that didn't work half the time.

No idea if that is still true, but that is why I gave up my seats.

I reconsidered getting my seats a couple of years later, but then Leiweke expanded BMO, and that sealed it for me. Unless you are in the south end, the secondary market is pretty fragile if the team isn't contending. We are decades away from having the level of support that makes being an SSH in a 30K stadium compelling economically (although I get that people have friends in their sections etc).

I take my chances and have been able to almost always pay face, throughout the run the past three years. I pay the scalpers for playoffs. It wasn't much of a premium for the NYRB or Columbus games. I paid face for 4 good tickets to the Montreal game in the 2016 playoffs. (I am very surprised to see the Zlatan game cost $700! I paid $500 for decent seats to MLS Cup.) So MLS Cup cost me an extra $300 but it doesn't take very many games like tonight's to more than compensate.

The expansion of BMO was great for buying tickets in the secondary market, but it was always bad for SSH holders, and SSH secondary sales. That chicken has probably come home to roost.

Given that the Leafs haven't done more games at BMO (I was wrong about that, I always thought multiple Leaf games there was the juice), I have zero idea how the business plan for spending $100M to expand BMO ever got approved. OK they get an incremental 5-10K to 5 or 6 MLS games a year (maybe $2M incremental revenue a year?), and they do a Leaf game and a Grey Cup every 5 years, but that has to be balanced against the fact that the expansion is actually depressing TFC and Argo SSH sales, it has to be.

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You are likely right. i bought Season Tickets from Day One to support soccer in Toronto. And I still do, and will, economic or not.

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Originally Posted by flamehawk

I didn't renew (because of disagreements with their labour practices and jumping on board the CPL train), but also didn't get invited to this - though the ticket agent called and spoke to me extensively a number of times.

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Wow. Shocked that you did not renew. i've always looked to your posts for interesting commentary

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Originally Posted by flamehawk

It's more around the use of scab workers in the context of the IATSE lock out. Spoke to a number of IATSE workers and they are incensed about this.

TFC will always have a place in my heart, but would much rather support a club/league more focused on local player development (York 9/CanPL).

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Yes, this is very concerning.

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Originally Posted by MightyDM

Wow. Shocked that you did not renew. i've always looked to your posts for interesting commentary

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Well, I'll definitely be sticking around here. The final reason for not renewing has just been that I have been really busy the past year. Even before the lock out, I was missing every other game. I intend to still attend all Voy Cup, CCL, and derby games!

Any updates

Did anyone go ?

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Originally Posted by cincy

Did anyone go ?

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I did. I've got 46 minutes of audio posted on my site. The link is this: http://www.rocketrobinsoccerintoront...8/18tfc045.htm

For those of you who don't have that much time, I've broken down the minute mark where certain questions are discussed.

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Originally Posted by Rocket Robin

I did. I've got 46 minutes of audio posted on my site. The link is this: http://www.rocketrobinsoccerintoront...8/18tfc045.htm

For those of you who don't have that much time, I've broken down the minute mark where certain questions are discussed.

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Thanks, heaps, and I respect your looking out for Canadian content on the team (if maybe my stance is somewhat nuanced).

So Oso has gone up to 750-800k.