Game 20 - Reds Rolling on the Carpet - NER hosts TFC Saturday August 1 7:30 pm

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Originally Posted by Bishop Blaize

No not a formal request. Why the need to pm. Tell me ur views

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Because this is a game thread. An away game thread. Back on topic.

Again feel free to pm me your concerns.

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Originally Posted by reggie

its only a better team because of GIO,other then that same probs on this team,until they fix the back we are a 500 team with the highest payroll in the league.and we will have a new gm and coach next season,hope im wrong.

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This ^

this team is only doing better because of Giovinco. It's a bloated payroll for an average team. Incredible.

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Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat

Another one liner that give nothing to the discussion. Anything to actually say about the post quoted?

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Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat

Because this is a game thread. An away game thread. Back on topic.

Again feel free to pm me your concerns.

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Why pm. BTW I did pm a few weeks back re flags in 114 and I didn't get one.

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Originally Posted by jloome

We've seen multiple occasions where their interplay and buildup has been exceptional. Why it's only an ever-other-game sort of proposition is a bit worrisome, but last night we were playing fairly even until that red card, so....

I think you're quite wrong on this one. This team plays way better as a team than it has in the past. Faster movement off the ball, better short passing, other players getting involved in goals. THey may not believe yet they can win without him, but most of the pieces are there. We're lacking a number three forward with ambition; Luke Moore just seems to be collecting a check and hanging out at this point and Findley is so far past this being his level it's absurd.

And I admit I am not sold on Perquis or Kantari. Both were, according to fans of their clubs, bench players who just weren't good enough to start most of the time by the time we got them. Perquis plays with rage and his positioning is highly suspect and I suspect given how similar the descriptions from fans of Kantari are that he'll be similar. This league has not a lot of technique, but an abudance of speed and athleticism, and it may have been eurosnobbery on our part to go and get these two when better options were available from MLS, the Caribbean and South America.

My other caveat on our coach is that I get no sense he's passionate and a motivator. He's so clinical, I wonder if he has any impact on gameday drive at all. Compare that to Robbo, who's playing with much less money, has picked up pieces who are just as good or better, and is now three games in first place in the west.

I don't think Vanney's going anywhere and that' sgood for the team... for now. But eventually, we need to get rid of the uneven performances, and that, to me, takes a motivator.

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Id add a couple of points here. Bendik really fails to command his six yard box- I just watched Fire beat Dallas and their (young) goalie played a far better game, positionally. It made Bendik's weakness really clear. I'd fault him for the first and third goals, plus Konopka is the only goalie we have ever had who actually saves penalties. I think Vanney should seriously consider putting Konopka back in.

with respect to Vanney, post game he said "we discussed set pieces". You don't just discuss, you practice, over and over again. Your insight that he is too intellectual is bang on. However, he has shown he can learn. Hopefully he can, although jury's out at this point.

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Originally Posted by Bishop Blaize

Why pm. BTW I did pm a few weeks back re flags in 114 and I didn't get one.

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I've checked my inbox for the season. It wasn't me you were pming.

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Originally Posted by Soccerpro

This ^

this team is only doing better because of Giovinco. It's a bloated payroll for an average team. Incredible.

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several people have said this, but Giovinco is a big part of the "bloated" payroll. You have to count his skills if you are going to criticize the spending, like hello.

Given we are at the cap, with 3 DP, it's not that our payroll is bloated. It's that a couple of people on higher wages at non DP positions are not doing the job.

Subtle difference.

I get the feeling management thought Caldwell would be a steadying influence on Perquis. Dude needs to calm down.

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Originally Posted by ronzilla

That guy altidore has been the worst MLS signing this year. That is all.

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Stop sniffing the glue, it really is clouding your judgement, just my opinion of course.

"That altidore guy" Lol.

Roll on the next game. As far as I'm concerned NE never happened.

Went to Osheaga for the weekend. just saw the result and thread now.

I will never, ever be disappointed by the mental breakdowns that some of the usual suspects have here. High art.

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Originally Posted by Derko

Stop sniffing the glue, it really is clouding your judgement, just my opinion of course.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjIKyRRu8qI

LOL

Jozy should never wear an armband again, nevermind just TFC's. What a monumental fuck up. The only thing more impulsive than that kick out is the set of circumstances that lead him to be here in the first place.

Best part of the game was the last 10 minutes when we were pressing. And who would have thought Jackson at RB would be the best defender of the night? Our CB's are a disgrace.

Btw, did anyone see who got the armband after Cheyrou was subbed off?

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Originally Posted by Brooker

"That altidore guy" Lol.

Roll on the next game. As far as I'm concerned NE never happened.

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I share the same view. If a pattern develops then cause for concern is warranted but right now all this hate is a little odd. As a fan base I get we are trigger happy but we have a good team right now in the thick of it. If we get blown out the next two games fine... big questions.

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Originally Posted by pdubs

I share the same view. If a pattern develops then cause for concern is warranted but right now all this hate is a little odd. As a fan base I get we are trigger happy but we have a good team right now in the thick of it. If we get blown out the next two games fine... big questions.

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Being even worse defensively with Bendik in goal is pretty much a pattern now I would say. The numbers don't lie.

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Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud

Being even worse defensively with Bendik in goal is pretty much a pattern now I would say. The numbers don't lie.

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I'm still not certain about this but I think you might be on to something.

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Originally Posted by Richard

I'm still not certain about this but I think you might be on to something.

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Like I said in another thread on here; not even getting into who is the better keeper but the team clearly plays better in front of Konopka than Bendik. Reason for that? Communication? Confidence? Who knows but it's a pattern now.

Lots of people are ragging on Altidore right now (and rightfully so). I think Altidore's problem is that is pretty much the definition of a confidence striker. Basically, if he is feeling like he's god's gift to soccer, he will be scoring goals at will. If he is feeling shaky, he's going to be shit. You can see it in his movements lately, he just doesn't move like he believes he can score (whereas Giovinco seems to believe he can score no matter where he has the ball).

Look at his recent history. At Sunderland, he had lost all confidence, so was playing below his ability. We sign him for big money, Bradley convinces him that it wasn't HIS fault he was shit there, he just had bad service! He comes in, and frankly kills it for a while. Sadly for him, he gets an injury, which allows Giovinco our lord and savior to show that he's isn't just one of a strike partnership at Toronto, he's the fucking superstar of the team (which is probably the first knock on Altidore's confidence). He then goes to play for the USMNT at the absolute wrong time (coming back from an injury, and no longer feeling quite as confident as he was). He mentioned himself that he should have spent the group stage back in Toronto ensuring he was 100% fit, and possibly joined the team after). Anyway, then he basically gets cut from the national team, and we have a striker rejoining TFC with no confidence (leading probably to the kick yesterday).

So what does Jozy need? He needs Bradley to come in and give him a cool runnings talk ("I'm a bad ass mother, who don't take no crap off of nobody!"). He also really needs to have a game where he saves the day (and doesn't just play second fiddle to Giovinco). Will it happen? No idea, I think we're at the point where Altidore either come back and starts to kill it again, or starts to fade away for real.

^ this. It's on MB to get JA's head back in the game. He might be the only one who can do that. If he does, then well done. If not, it calls into question the added value of bringing JA in - the special partnership between JA and MB.

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Originally Posted by Steve

Lots of people are ragging on Altidore right now (and rightfully so). I think Altidore's problem is that is pretty much the definition of a confidence striker. Basically, if he is feeling like he's god's gift to soccer, he will be scoring goals at will. If he is feeling shaky, he's going to be shit. You can see it in his movements lately, he just doesn't move like he believes he can score (whereas Giovinco seems to believe he can score no matter where he has the ball).

Look at his recent history. At Sunderland, he had lost all confidence, so was playing below his ability. We sign him for big money, Bradley convinces him that it wasn't HIS fault he was shit there, he just had bad service! He comes in, and frankly kills it for a while. Sadly for him, he gets an injury, which allows Giovinco our lord and savior to show that he's isn't just one of a strike partnership at Toronto, he's the fucking superstar of the team (which is probably the first knock on Altidore's confidence). He then goes to play for the USMNT at the absolute wrong time (coming back from an injury, and no longer feeling quite as confident as he was). He mentioned himself that he should have spent the group stage back in Toronto ensuring he was 100% fit, and possibly joined the team after). Anyway, then he basically gets cut from the national team, and we have a striker rejoining TFC with no confidence (leading probably to the kick yesterday).

So what does Jozy need? He needs Bradley to come in and give him a cool runnings talk ("I'm a bad ass mother, who don't take no crap off of nobody!"). He also really needs to have a game where he saves the day (and doesn't just play second fiddle to Giovinco). Will it happen? No idea, I think we're at the point where Altidore either come back and starts to kill it again, or starts to fade away for real.

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I don't think this is an accurate assessment. Jozy took the penalty to tie the match in Columbus and didn't look like a striker lacking in confidence.

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Originally Posted by Jack

I don't think this is an accurate assessment. Jozy took the penalty to tie the match in Columbus and didn't look like a striker lacking in confidence.

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I disagree, but understand where you're coming from. It's one thing taking a penalty (if he deferred that to Giovinco, after drawing the penalty himself, I agree it would have been much worse) but it's another making decisions in open play. To me, recently he hasn't been playing as someone who demands the ball. I almost get the impression he would rather someone else have it, or someone else shoot it.

Now, I'll try to put some data in here (though to be perfectly fair, there isn't really enough data to work with yet to form a solid opinion). I looked at Jozy's games from before his injury, and after his injury. I looked at different stats of his per 90 minutes played (so all sub appearances were pro-rated). He played for 651 minutes before his injury, and 438 after his injury. The stats are as follows:

All numbers are average/90 minutes played

	Shots	Shots on Goal	Fouls Committed	Fouls Suffered
Before Injury	2.2	.96	1.8	2.8
After Injury	1.2	0.6	2.5	1.2

What I see is a frustrated striker who is not shooting, not as involved with the ball (fewer fouls suffered) but committing more fouls. Sure, it could be due to a lot of factors (like Bradley not being there to feed him the ball), but I wouldn't discount a confidence issue (as I said, he plays to me like he doesn't want to shoot). Anyway, obviously stats don't tell the whole story, I was just interested to see what they said.

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Originally Posted by Steve

I disagree, but understand where you're coming from. It's one thing taking a penalty (if he deferred that to Giovinco, after drawing the penalty himself, I agree it would have been much worse) but it's another making decisions in open play. To me, recently he hasn't been playing as someone who demands the ball. I almost get the impression he would rather someone else have it, or someone else shoot it.

Now, I'll try to put some data in here (though to be perfectly fair, there isn't really enough data to work with yet to form a solid opinion). I looked at Jozy's games from before his injury, and after his injury. I looked at different stats of his per 90 minutes played (so all sub appearances were pro-rated). He played for 651 minutes before his injury, and 438 after his injury. The stats are as follows:

All numbers are average/90 minutes played

	Shots	Shots on Goal	Fouls Committed	Fouls Suffered
Before Injury	2.2	.96	1.8	2.8
After Injury	1.2	0.6	2.5	1.2

What I see is a frustrated striker who is not shooting, not as involved with the ball (fewer fouls suffered) but committing more fouls. Sure, it could be due to a lot of factors (like Bradley not being there to feed him the ball), but I wouldn't discount a confidence issue (as I said, he plays to me like he doesn't want to shoot). Anyway, obviously stats don't tell the whole story, I was just interested to see what they said.

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Playing hurt and not at full speed could account for the stats, too. I think we need to see a couple more matches from him. He's had a bit of a tough go since the injury and then not being fully fit for the Gold Cup (and we know he loves playing those internationals). A bit of frustration shows he cares and wants to succeed. I think he'll be motivated now to show that was a one-time thing. Vanney has said as much, too. Hopefully, he gets his head straight and comes back like we know he can.

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Originally Posted by Jack

Playing hurt and not at full speed could account for the stats, too. I think we need to see a couple more matches from him. He's had a bit of a tough go since the injury and then not being fully fit for the Gold Cup (and we know he loves playing those internationals). A bit of frustration shows he cares and wants to succeed. I think he'll be motivated now to show that was a one-time thing. Vanney has said as much, too. Hopefully, he gets his head straight and comes back like we know he can.

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Yep, agreed that his injury could certainly play a role here. I really hope he is going to be motivated, and I hope the return of MB will help push him where he needs to be.

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Originally Posted by Steve

Yep, agreed that his injury could certainly play a role here. I really hope he is going to be motivated, and I hope the return of MB will help push him where he needs to be.

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You and me both, man. We need all three of our big guns if we're going to make any post-season noise.

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Originally Posted by Soccerpro

This ^

this team is only doing better because of Giovinco. It's a bloated payroll for an average team. Incredible.

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This!
One thousands of times this!

OMG, how can't everybody see this?

Cause some of us actually watch the league and know what an average team is like.

This isn't an average team.

Even without Giovinco, this is the most talented, most balanced, most tactically aware team we've ever had.

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Originally Posted by Jack

I don't think this is an accurate assessment. Jozy took the penalty to tie the match in Columbus and didn't look like a striker lacking in confidence.

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For all we know he's been fighting injuries all year and has just kept his mouth shut about it for the most part. People were on Bradley last year as well after he dropped off.. Sometimes guys just take a while to get healthy and MLS teams don't have the luxury to let them sit for long periods of time (nor do the players want to).

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Originally Posted by PizzaEatingYeti

This!
One thousands of times this!

OMG, how can't everybody see this?

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Yes, that Giovinco is pretty good.