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This is no Mount Rushmore exercise, to be clear. I'm not sure there are 5 worth celebrating..
BUT, we spend a lot of time discussing how bad a manager is during their tenure. After some time and reflection, were they all that bad?
Lets compare the ones who have left (and the current one) and...who would be your top 5?
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Have at It People
1. Vanney
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also-rans:
2. Ryan Nelsen
3. John Carver
4. Chris Cummins
Nelsen showed some promise, despite having no experience or training. Carver was loved by the players and fans, although he couldn't handle MLS officiating. It would have been interesting to have Cummins longer, he had the best percentage record until Vanney, although only a 10 game sample. Unfortunately Mo wanted to give his friend Preki a job.
I can't name 5 best.
Five Worst:
1. Mo Johnston
2. Paul Mariner
3. Aron Winter
4. Preki
5. Nick Dasovic
Mo Johnston and Mariner were slimy characters. Mariner also said and did bizarre things, like putting Freddy Hall in goal, and calling Wiedeman the "best finisher of the modern era" (something Wiedeman himself found quite funny). Aron Winter lost the locker room. Preki's "tactics" were 10 men behind the ball. Dasovic was in over his head.
You would really put Winter in the worst category?
No friggen way - He had Mariner working against him and a bone head Boss in Tom Anselmi - and still managed to make a decent run of things in CL. I don't blame him for that 0-9 run - Never have, never will - it was a run of bad luck, that with a better setup - he would've come out of it as the first playoff manager.
Here is my list in order:
1. Greg Vanney (no-brainer for the next decade at least)
2. John Carver (did well with what he had to work with)
3. Chris Cummins (deserved more of a chance than given)
4. Aaron Winter (had a good CCL run and an entertaining style when he had the players to execute, not to mention being actively undermined)
5. Ryan Nelson (should have done better with the pieces he was given)
6. Nick Dasovic (may have grown into the position, but there was too much of a learning curve and not enough time to handle the MLSE pressure)
7. Mo Johnston (worked with what he had, but still had yearnings to be more a player than a coach)
8. Preki (completely gutted the team around his uninspiring vision of play instead of working with what he had)
9. Paul Mariner (an opportunistic old-school 4-4-2 adherent who engineered his way into the position)
/ThreadQuote:
Originally Posted by Initial B
Would be curious to see how Winter would fare under similarly stable circumstances to Vanney's tenure, not to mention the level of financial backing.
The Teachers/Peddie toxicity effect was overwhelming. No manager had the right governance setup until Payne/Nelsen.
All the pre Leiweke guys are impossible to evaluate, really.
Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by jabbronies
I have no problem evaluating Mo. There's a reason they removed his photo from BMO Field.Quote:
Originally Posted by ensco
Anybody else go, "We've only had 9?"
I agree with OT on this part:
Vanney
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and:
- Ryan Nelsen
- John Carver
- Chris Cummins
Not sure about the order of those other three. Ryan Nelsen seemed to be a decent guy, but I also heard about some strange happenings during his tenure.
Aron Winter was definitely undermined, and the management structure of the club was still garbage at the time. In addition to the shenanigans by Mariner and Earl Cochrane (remember Earl?), another thing that sunk him was the idea that 1) TFC is going for a brand new style of play, to be developed long term, from academy on up...
But at the same time 2) TFC is still going to win now, and make it into the playoffs in Winter's first season, after never being in the playoffs before. I remember distinctly when Winter said #2 in an interview or presser in the spring of 2011. I immediately thought: WTF here we go again. Some of that was probably Winter's naivete, but I'm sure it was also what the brainless trust above had told him. That's when you start going for mediocre loan players that give you none of that long-term development; panic signings; panic tactics; and mind-numbing turnover. Then you lose the room.
Winter himself admitted he was naive, in a later interview. That's why I can't put him in the top five. Given at least 2 to 3 years, in better environment, he MIGHT have been top 5, or even top two. But never w/o someone competent to help find and sign decent North-American talent.
Yeah I'm with you here. What could have been. In the often repeated words of Winter: "It's a pity".Quote:
Originally Posted by jabbronies
Also it's funny seeing Bob de Klerk at Atlanta now.
A full list of the people that put things over Anselmi (which is why the pictures were pulled down) is a long one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldtimer
Mo had an expansion team near .500 halfway through 2007. That and the Winter CCL run are the two most impressive things any TFC manager did pre Vanney.
The ending was putrid but there is a case that Mo wasn't near the worst on this list, and most of his sins were as GM, not as the field manager
(Congrats to Og who figured out that a vicious rehash of all this might get amusing. Can we have a thread on "what is your favourite post?" in the Dero to Celtic thread also, please?)