TFC to unveil Frings, Koevermans as newest signings, Winter not out

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shakes McQueen

Agreed, Vic. It's also far easier to determine the abilities of a coach, when they are largely unencumbered by extensive transfer and salary restrictions.

- Scott

---

Like i said previously though a good coach improves the players he has at his disposal, regardless of anything else this is what they are supposed to do if indeed they are capable in their role. I cannot think of one Preki player that has actually improved under Winter, I am using Preki players as an example as they were here last season and we already know how well they played. In this instance I am not concerned with money to spend (Winter has just had two DP's signed though), I am not caring about inability to sign their own players (Winter has now signed 14 players), I am merely pointing oout that in my opinion I can not see any imporvement in a group of players who in some cases most people would agree have actually regressed under Winter. On top of that Winter record in the MLS which includes players he has signed for his team is abysmal, his win per game ratio is extremely low and the worst we have ever seen in our short history.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by torontocelt

I am willing to give them a year, never said I wasn't. I am simply saying that so far their record has been abysmal and the worst win per game ratio we have seen at TFC, this I believe to be true. A good manager takes the players he has at his disposal and makes them better. I cannot think of one Preki player he has improved? Cann, who was player of the year is worse, Attakora is worse, Gargan is worse, DeGuz I would say may be worse, Santos is pretty much the same, Frei is pretty much the same, Ty Harden I would say has regressed slightly, Peterson is just as crap as he ever was. Winter I think has now brought in 14 players or so, that is a complete team plus three subs, this is his team. How many more signings does he need to make before this is his team?

---

Spot on!
Really, Winter is allowed to change twice, and 50-50% of all the roster (if the whole roster is about 30) before you guys will say this is his team? WTF?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Whoop

Celtic and Rangers are stable, and historic teams, that they can afford to drop a coach quickly if it's not working out. Same with Liverpool this year with Hodgson.

Prior to Le Guen, McLeish was at Rangers for 5-6 years, and prior to Hodgson, Liverpool had stability with Benitez.

I'd argue if Winter was TFC's 2nd coach as opposed to it's 6th, Winter likely wouldn't be here. But given the fact that the biggest thing that's needed in TFC is stability, the best thing to do is wait it out.

The more coaches you go through, the more difficult it will be to attract the next coach. What coach wants to come to an organization where, if he makes a misstep he doesn't know if he has the confidence of the FO or has to watch his back?

---

I agree Whoop stability is needed, I am just saying that I am not happy with the job Winter has done and I am not convinced that he is the man to take us further. I do not make the decisions at TFC but if I did and results do not improve in the second half of the season when we have three DP's on our team then I would be willing to make the chop. I dont go by the we need stability rule if I cannot see any signs of improvement via results when we have three more DP's than some teams. The biggest problem this league has is there is no relegation, it seems to be the biggest problem with North American sports. Owners are not forced into giving a shit because they are not going to lose the same kind of revenues other teams in the world lose due to relegation. They now they will still be back next year regardless of results and if the team or manager sucks then is is okay as the same pressures do not exist. Obviously in the North America football is in its infancy and not enough people give a shit about relegation as the owners wouldn't invest but for me that is one of the big problems that exists.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by torontocelt

The biggest problem this league has is there is no relegation, it seems to be the biggest problem with North American sports. Owners are not forced into giving a shit because they are not going to lose the same kind of revenues other teams in the world lose due to relegation. They now they will still be back next year regardless of results and if the team or manager sucks then is is okay as the same pressures do not exist. Obviously in the North America football is in its infancy and not enough people give a shit about relegation as the owners wouldn't invest but for me that is one of the big problems that exists.

---

Absolutely. It completely alters the way that people think as fans regarding the sport too. This idea of giving a season up for rebuilding just does not exist anywhere because the relegation issue is so huge. Thats one of the main reasons i can't think along those lines and can't accept it as an excuse.
I totally agree about the Preki players too. I wonder just how they came to the decisions to dump and bring in players. I was no fan of the likes of Hiscanovics and Usanov but I get the feeling that Mariner and co just drew a line through last years team and brought in a whole load of new players without a whole load of thought about where exactly weaknesses lay and have been tinkering around ever since then trying to get it right when they could have had as much success trying to mould a group of players that are at least familiar with each other. That just doesn't say good management no matter how you want to spin it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ginkster88

Gordon
Plata
Eckersley
Frings
Koevermans
Tchani
Williams

Those are all new faces and like that list; depending on how you rate Borman he could be on that list as well. Don't forget we can expect another addition to the backline in July... and I think I believe something coming from TFC FO for the first time in 5 years.

Compare that list to any list of players acquired by Mo and tell me how they stack up.

---

2 of those players haven't even laced their training shoes yet but you have listed them a players you like. They actually have to play first to be a success. Reputation doesn't get you points. They COULD be a success but they don't desrve any praise until they have earned it. Remember Ljungberg?

In fact only Eckersley on that list has been a good signing so far based on performance. The others have had a combination of patchy performance and injury that really havn't given us the opportunity to make a good judgement of them.

^ seriously...have you watched TFC play w/ Gordon and then without Gordon...just completely different

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by prizby

^ seriously...have you watched TFC play w/ Gordon and then without Gordon...just completely different

---

Yes. Just not enough yet though. I like what i see with Gordon but he's been injured too often to make a good judgement. Remember Guevara on fire at the start of the season 3 years back (? i think) then he fell away big time. Not sure yet if his contribution in the games i've seen is consistent. So i will reserve judgement till i see more. Which i hope is very very soon.
Plata too has been impressive but recently seems to spend a lot of his time on his arse and running into defenders that take the ball off him. So again i'll reserve judgement

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LesH

Spot on!
Really, Winter is allowed to change twice, and 50-50% of all the roster (if the whole roster is about 30) before you guys will say this is his team? WTF?

---

those players mentioned can only play basically old school run and pass, not one can hold the ball for time to make smart onfield decisions....using patience! making your opponent respect you ...if you challenge me I have the skill to get around you so therefore you think twice about aggressively attacking me.............thats a control game soooo lacking in the ncaa or our development leagues.it is what Winter is used to and trying to do here......and he will........it is so tiresome to not see anyone on the team even control the ball, without making an horrible hastened pass usually giving up possesion ...We will succed thankfully getting rid of kick and chase, what has ruined North american soccer since inception

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 123 elite

...I totally agree about the Preki players too. I wonder just how they came to the decisions to dump and bring in players. I was no fan of the likes of Hiscanovics and Usanov but I get the feeling that Mariner and co just drew a line through last years team and brought in a whole load of new players without a whole load of thought about where exactly weaknesses lay and have been tinkering around ever since then trying to get it right when they could have had as much success trying to mould a group of players that are at least familiar with each other. That just doesn't say good management no matter how you want to spin it.

---

You do realize that Earl Cochrane, Nick Dasovic and Jim Brennan were still in control of day to day operations on an interim basis when a lot of the key player personnel decisions over last season's roster were made don't you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roogsy

I obviously share the same concerns as torontocelt. Neither of us are ignoring the fact that the team at Winter's disposal is not good enough or incomplete. BUT that should not take either Winter or Mariner off the hook and I think that is where the headscratching comes from on our side. A GOOD coach takes what he has and "endures" until reinforcements arrive. That's what Arena did with the Galaxy when he arrived and his best players were not available till mid-summer. And then you have the argument that the team was incomplete not because of any other reason but Winter and Mariner themselves. They did not need to start the year undertalented nor understaffed. It was not necessary for the "rebuild". In my opinion, they "wear" this poor record themselves, nobody else.

---

Comparing our roster at the beginning of the season with the one Bruce Arena took over is like comparing Man U to Wolverhampton.

As for the second part. WOW!!
This team needed to be blown up. From the DP's on down. The only guy that will last the purge is Stefan Frei. And rightly so.

The impact of these signings is amazing! 2 victories in a row!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MG42

The impact of these signings is amazing! 2 victories in a row!

---

Probably you're joking, but actually there can be a significant psychological boost just knowing that 2 very good players are coming in. The mental side of the game is very important.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oldtimer

Probably you're joking, but actually there can be a significant psychological boost just knowing that 2 very good players are coming in. The mental side of the game is very important.

---

Exactly.

Aside from a couple of them seeing the team's willingness to bring proper players in and deciding to play for their jobs, they also won't want these big names coming in and thinking they're crap.

Frings is what a DM should be, and I think he can improve us going forward and defending. ( he is more physical then JDG, but if they play as a pair it should realy protect our back line and improve us going forward) I like the other signing because he is the big CF that can center the front line and score. This has to make us much better, unless they are both total bust. This should make us competitive in the CL and lead to at least a run at the playoffs.

I haven't seen enough of Koevermans to make any sort of assessment, but Frings is the type of player that I'd expect to fit into the MLS relatively easily...not only is he not going to be put off by all the hacking and dirty plays, he's going to give opposing teams something to worry about themselves.

Great signing.Just came back from Holland and spoke to my brother a key member of the AZ supporters group.Danny had some problems with VanGaal at AZ and this was all related to poor communications between the 2.Danny is a hero in Alkmaar and according to all those I spoke to a great player.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johntv

Great signing.Just came back from Holland and spoke to my brother a key member of the AZ supporters group.Danny had some problems with VanGaal at AZ and this was all related to poor communications between the 2.Danny is a hero in Alkmaar and according to all those I spoke to a great player.

---

I've read nothing but very positive reviews about Koevermans from Dutch supporters online. Suffice to say, he has the potential to be the best target man in TFC history.

All due respect to The Legend of course. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ManUtd4ever

I've read nothing but very positive reviews about Koevermans from Dutch supporters online. Suffice to say, he has the potential to be the best target man in TFC history.

All due respect to The Legend of course. :)

---

lol whoa...dont jinx him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trane

Frings is what a DM should be, and I think he can improve us going forward and defending. ( he is more physical then JDG, but if they play as a pair it should realy protect our back line and improve us going forward) I like the other signing because he is the big CF that can center the front line and score. This has to make us much better, unless they are both total bust. This should make us competitive in the CL and lead to at least a run at the playoffs.

---

We didn't get Gatusso, Frings is the next best thing;)

Good article on Frings:

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/...high-on-frings

Quote:

---

Berhalter, who played seven years in Germany, has played several times against Frings, 34, and calls him "an exceptional player" and an "eccentric."

"On the field, in his day, he was an absolute animal, but he's also skilled, and he's good going forward," Berhalter said. "He meant a lot to all the teams he played on [Alemannia Aachen, Werder Bremen, Borussia Dortmund and Bayern Munich]. ... The question is going to be how does he adapt to MLS, because it's not always easy for foreigners to adapt to MLS, especially guys from Europe. So we'll see. But he definitely has the quality, and I think if the set-up's right for him, he should do well."

Does Berhalter carry any personal animosity over the hand ball that was not called?

"Absolutely not. No," he replied. "I would have done the same thing."

---