Yeah. Sad thing is there's no chance of that happening.
Iconic player for this club but it's time to move on.
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Don’t write Jozy off just yet. If he’s owed 3.5 million this year but they convert it to 4.5 million over 3 years I’m pretty sure he stays.
I’m not saying I want this but every day we don’t hear anything makes me think a buyout isn’t such a sure thing.
Note: I attempted to read the MLS rules on buyouts but I stopped as I could feel my brain capacity getting smaller. If someone else wants to investigate and inform on the buyout dates that would be great but I can’t risk reading the MLS rules and coming away dumber than I currently am.
Jozy was done a few years ago. Bringing him back again and not learning the lesson for a 3rd year would be madness.
Obviously they are shopping him. The problem is his big salary that he isn't going to get anywhere else.
So with Insigne signing and Salcedo being swapped for Soteldo, what are TFCs biggest needs?
Most would point to a DP striker as need #1.
We know that another depth CB is being looked at - Lukas McNaughton.
We need a replacement for Laryea at FB. Beside Shaff, we don't have many threats on the wing. A winger/fullback would also be a good idea - this would have been Raheem Edwards who turned TFC down for LA Galaxy recently. Marhsall-Rutty might be able to play more this year, but who knows. I'm definitely not counting on Jayden Nelson after his performances last year.
You have to buyout the player before the season starts. So February 26th.
That’s why there hasn’t been a rush to get it done. TFC is exploring all options to get him off the books. Not going to happen though, he’s owed too much money. Tigres was probably the last best hope.
And I’m sorry, but adding more guaranteed years and money to his contract would be asinine. No chance of that happening.
It’s actually the other way around. The fact that he is likely be leaving has led some to invent stories about his past that simplify are not true. His injuries did not start because of laziness or anything else; Vanney did not call him out publicly for lack of fitness or being a problem in the locker room ever - the only coach that did was Armas and you have to agree that it is in Jozy’s favour that he did; etc.
My point is quite different. It doesn’t make sense to have him not train in behalf of the club. It’s like folding and then saying hit me. If he can’t play, there is no reason to delay a buyout; if you are trying to move him in some way or in a swap with Tigre’s - he has to be training. Nothing to do with nostalgia. Ensco has offered one explanation and he may be right. But it’s still odd.
As for Jozy:
Legend
As good a goal scorer as we will ever see in MLS
Terrible injury history.
Showed at the end of last season that he can still put it in the net.
If he can show he is fit, can be a difference maker for many clubs enough for them to want him.
I was only joking, I’m aware of the buyout phase but I disagree they are taking their time to explore all options. Nobody is taking him on so what there really to explore? There’s two options, buyout or re-sign at a lower cost and that’s it. Trade is not an option so I don’t buy it that they are taking their time to see if anyone is interested. (If there’s a trade then build a statue of Manning at BMO because he’d be doing Gods work) Usually you decide and act on a situation with a club legend where you may not come out looking great no matter what route you choose but you don’t let it fester. Right now it’s festering.
My point was the not deciding part is an indicator of them considering keeping him to save some face with the fan base. Giving a club legend a million to save face with the fans seems like a small price to pay and the longer it drags the more likely that is. TFC have money and have done dumber things before so don’t underestimate their potential to do something stupid like extending him at a lower AAV so he’s not DP is all I’m saying.
Tricky, somewhat mysterious situation unless the buyout and/or move is happening very soon.
Otherwise, I agree. He can’t be expected to be fit all the time, but when fit he can still score, still has soft feet, great link up play from a big man, can hold the ball up, good movement, can mentor young strikers. In the right situation (which we had only with Giovinco on the pitch/roster) he could still contribute. He played through injury for us but after Giovinco left we needed him to be fit all or most of the time.
Jozy is a club legend because of 2017
Hope for his sake he gets a trade to somewhere he likes.
He will be bought out.
I don’t know how you show you will be fit when you’re on the wrong side of 30, have played less than a thousand minutes of league play in 3 of the last four years, and have on several occasions showed up to training camp out of shape.
Look, I love what he’s done for the club and legend status certainly but it’s improbable he turns it around from here and would suspect the market views it the same way.
Yeah, it’s got to be ‘fit from time to time’ at best. If he’s not the striker(s) you rely on and overall the situation suits him, he could be very useful. But the wages are not going to be high.
On the other hand, Dwyer is an extreme and sad (for us) example but it’s true the reputation can linger. I wouldn’t be surprised if his current reputation in Mexico, for example, is above what it is here.
I was gonna ask what the new hot button issue will be once Jozy leaves, but it will for sure be Michael Bradley's playing time.
I love your posts but this is simply not true. It’s recency bias. 2021 was a shit show for Jozy. But that wasn’t true in the past and we need to stop saying it:
“have on several occasions showed up to training camp out of shape”.
Here is 2020 - https://www.wakingthered.com/platfor...mp-says-vanney
Jozy needs to show he can play, for his sake. There are tons of examples of strikers of his class and quality succeeding at his age. He had serious surgery in his ankle last year and if he is going to play again needs to prove by play on the the field that he is past that. If he wants to.
At the same time, TFC has more options with him if he shows that. Yes they will have to pay his 2022 contract, in Toronto or otherwise. But it doesn’t need to be a buy out if they can be creative - and they might need that buy out elsewhere. (Soteldo). So it is also in their interest to show he is fit and can play.
IT MAKES NO SENSE TO NOT HAVE HIM TRAIN IF YOU ARE NOT BUYING HIM OUT
Sorry to yell
Perhaps I’m imagining it but I think there have been other times where his training regime has been Im question, including last year and with the nats.
Re: you’re other point, I respectfully disagree. Athletes these days have to show up to camp with a baseline level of fitness, otherwise the training staff can’t really have them in good enough condition for the start of the season, it all takes time.
By the rule, pretty sure Toronto FC has until roster compliance date (aka just before season start date) to buy him out.
Now, rather or not morally it's the right thing to do (dragging out until the last possible moment) is supposedly a whole different story altogether.
I would love to see a chant of Bob the Builder theme if we get these contracts right, he has been amazing so far
Whatever the Josmer outcome...
I believe supporters need to remember and maybe start recognizing fresher memories also... chanting mark... JA@66:15... >DD@23:13!
noxx98, Webdogg, et al.
Thanks for getting into the weeds in the past while on some of these supporting matters and putting your brains at overload risk for us.
If Soteldo ends up being dealt which frees up a DP slot AND if TFC don't sign a further DP (say they sign a TAM striker instead) I can see various scenarios where Jozy is kept on the books for his final year.
We're assuming that because he is unlikely to be worth his full wages that the best option is buying him out, but that's not necessarily so. He looked a lot better near the end of last season, and if we can't get a replacement until mid summer and if he can score at a level approaching his cap hit (even if not his full salary), it might be better to have his services so TFC aren't in a big hole points wise mid season than to pay him out (if for example the DP slot he sits in isn't needed immediately).
Assuming Salcedo joins on $1.5M and we replace Jozy and Soteldo with a single DP for the start of the season we have about $3M left in budget/allocation money space. It may be a bit more than that in reality, if we classify Bradley as a DP for the first half of the season and then have Insigne take that spot, it should create a bit more budget room.
Been established he isn't professional. He doesn't keep himself in shape. He is broken down. And he was never, ever an elite MLS striker. Take off the rose colored glasses and go back on his stats. He was pretty good for 2 years when he played and then below average. The stats, like facts, are right there to see if you want to.
He is not worth even talking about again.
Actually, what I think is “established” is that he played with injuries in 2017 and 2018 CCL when maybe he shouldn’t have, and without that we do not win the Cup or go to CCL final. He also wasn’t “pretty good” in 2016-2018 CCL, he established a record of clutch playoff dominance that the league has never come close to seeing, before or since. Year after year top teams fail in the playoffs because their strikers get closed down (and Columbus came damn close to doing it to us in 2017). Breaking through that, over and over, like Jozy did, it was not just elite. It was unreal.
Then he starting breaking down. Who knows why? You saying he wasn’t in shape, that really is just speculation, and kind of denies pretty obvious evidence of a “warrior” personality. My speculation is that it was just bad luck, and maybe a consequence of playing injured earlier. Also he has been plagued by injuries since before his time at TFC.
In retrospect to re-up in 2019 was a mistake, in particular that amount of term was a serious error by Manning, but wow, your take is pretty mean spirited towards Jozy. To me, anyway.
In terms of what is going on with Jozy, I think it's pretty safe now, post the DDT (“Dwyer Debacle Trade”), to say Jozy is almost certainly being bought out, and whether TFC is handling it “correctly” is impossible to judge from the outside, we don’t know what the communications or negotiations really might be.
Suspect there is some sort of potential opportunity for creativity somewhere before Feb 26 that depends on Jozy finding a new home, and whether he is at camp or not is a small piece of the puzzle. Honestly, he cannot afford to get hurt now, if he is looking for a spot, and it may be as simple as him not wanting to take even a small risk of pulling his hamstring or adductor doing wind sprints.
I think this is the case. There's no real benefit to the team buying him out now. We lose some leverage with other potential DP targets if Jozy is off the roster, since we could say "fine we'll keep Jozy instead," even if everyone and their mother knows Jozy is gone.
Maybe a Mexican team loses all their strikers to injury and want to bring Jozy on. We come to a mutual agreement to buy him out and maybe save 500k to let him leave early. Maybe Jozy thinks he has the chance to make the USMNT for the World Cup and is desperate for minutes, so agrees to a lower buyout to let him leave now.
Pretty much every reporter has said Jozy will be gone (Fabrizio, Davidson, etc.). I think we need to come to terms with that.
I would hope they do it before the 31st. That way he's eligible to sign for a European team as free agent after the window closes should one be interested.