Match Day CCL Rnd of 8 Leg 1 - Cruz Azul "@" TFC - Tue April 27 10:00pm - Forget Your

We gave them two gifts but let's be honest, this is a team we'd have trouble beating at Vanney/Seba/Jozy's peak.

They didn't play particularly well tonight and were still the only club in it.

Defense continues to stink. Without Mavinga and Laryea, we're lost. At least Morrow played well tonight, which was a plus.

Still not sold on Bono, doesn't command the box.

Priso, Osorio, Morrow, Shaffelburg all earned their pay. Delgado was weak, Bradley and Omar were shambolic, Zavaleta was old Zavs.

Pretty poor all the way around. Last to most balls, not enough movement off the ball in support. Hurried too much when we did have the ball.

Pressing is one thing but playing schoolyard footie the whole way is abysmal.

And man... I hate to say it because maybe it sounds old-fashioned, but I find it embarrassing when the coach is yelling continually throughout the match. They're not schoolboys.

Also, that Ollie dude is making a good point. We tried zonal set piece defending before, under Nelsen, and it was a fucking disaster.

Dunno. Notwithstanding it being Cruz Azul, it feels like it might be a long season.

Kristian Jack is just spitting facts post-game about our need for a quality centreback.

When we beat Tigres and America, we played almost perfect games at the back in both legs. Guys like Drew Moor and Ashtone Morgan were outstanding. Zavaleta too.

You have a game like we did tonight, a team of this caliber will score for fun. They could have had seven goals.

They will be overconfident.

The miracle in Mexico City involves getting a lot tougher at the back, and having Pozo and Yefe available, and scoring 4 goals at altitude.

No problem.

No problem.

Maybe we can beg Chelsea to be Matt Miazga's next loan.

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Originally Posted by Bushmancan

I actually had problems initially running it in Safari, switched to Chrome and it worked well for the rest of the game

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Interesting. I was using Edge on a crappy Mac laptop that gets overloaded quickly if it has to do much work. (Like if I'm taking part in a Teams video meeting with a couple other people, I can barely edit a text file at the same time.) Worked flawless tonight, no issues with buffering for example which would probably be hard for this Mac. But I guess Edge is quite similar to Chrome these days.

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Originally Posted by Auzzy

Then I wish he would allow himself to be subbed off occasionally. I believe he calls the shots about that.

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Yeah, this is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Bradley isn't an ironman anymore.

And we have people that can do that role now.


Anyways, this team without Poz isn't going far in CCL against any LigaMX team who takes it seriously. Leon did not. Cruz Azul does.

There are lessons out of this game that will inform our season. But any decisions about getting rid of people from that match alone is overreacting. We are playing away from home for another month.

Sit Bono.

Work on set pieces.

The rest awaits the return of the MVP & our best most athletic defender and when we get back to Toronto

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Originally Posted by OgtheDim

Yeah, this is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Bradley isn't an ironman anymore.

And we have people that can do that role now.


Anyways, this team without Poz isn't going far in CCL against any LigaMX team who takes it seriously. Leon did not. Cruz Azul does.

There are lessons out of this game that will inform our season. But any decisions about getting rid of people from that match alone is overreacting. We are playing away from home for another month.

Sit Bono.

Work on set pieces.

The rest awaits the return of the MVP & our best most athletic defender and when we get back to Toronto

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I agree. Somehow Armas needs to have a word with Bradley, not sure if that's possible.

I agree with the rest as well. Any hints how serious Poz's injury is? Although with no playing time so far, I can't imagine him being 100% next week.

But we absolutely need another quality defender. Mavinga is guaranteed to be injured a number of games each season. Even when he's back, he needs some breaks to avoid the next injury. The other guys aren't doing it on their own. I hope that some of the recent Al 'O Cation moves were to prepare for another defender coming in. They have mentioned it in interviews.

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Originally Posted by jloome

Again, if it's not affecting other viewers, it's probably not OneSoccer, it's probably your setup or internet provider.

If it were OneSoccer's stream we would all be affected by it.

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My setup is fine. I can stream everything else without any problems. There's like 10 people on this board watching one OneSoccer, I'm the 1 in 10 with a bad feed. Whatever, I already cancelled and never going back. They are a garbage service, Im paying 12$ to watch 2 games, well 1 game now and they couldn't deliver.

So based on the fact that there is no way Ali and Armas dont go for it. So what is our best 11.


Altidore

Solteldo Poz Akinola

Osorio Delgado

Auro Mavinga Gonzalez Laryea

Westberg

Bono
Bradley
Deleon
Mullinho
New CB
Priso
Okello or Shaf

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Originally Posted by ensco

When we beat Tigres and America, we played almost perfect games at the back in both legs. Guys like Drew Moor and Ashtone Morgan were outstanding. Zavaleta too.

You have a game like we did tonight, a team of this caliber will score for fun. They could have had seven goals.

They will be overconfident.

The miracle in Mexico City involves getting a lot tougher at the back, and having Pozo and Yefe available, and scoring 4 goals at altitude.

No problem.

No problem.

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I disagree. We were a mess at the back for portions of the matches against Tigres and America. There were a lot of individual mistakes covered by grit and some luck. Zavaleta scored an embarrassing own goal that got called back and Bono stood on his head in the America away leg against like 25 shots.

Our home legs were outstanding in the CCL that year. Unbelievable the amount of chances we had. Away legs were a different story.

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Originally Posted by jloome

We gave them two gifts but let's be honest, this is a team we'd have trouble beating at Vanney/Seba/Jozy's peak.

They didn't play particularly well tonight and were still the only club in it.

Defense continues to stink. Without Mavinga and Laryea, we're lost. At least Morrow played well tonight, which was a plus.

Still not sold on Bono, doesn't command the box.

Priso, Osorio, Morrow, Shaffelburg all earned their pay. Delgado was weak, Bradley and Omar were shambolic, Zavaleta was old Zavs.

Pretty poor all the way around. Last to most balls, not enough movement off the ball in support. Hurried too much when we did have the ball.

Pressing is one thing but playing schoolyard footie the whole way is abysmal.

And man... I hate to say it because maybe it sounds old-fashioned, but I find it embarrassing when the coach is yelling continually throughout the match. They're not schoolboys.

Also, that Ollie dude is making a good point. We tried zonal set piece defending before, under Nelsen, and it was a fucking disaster.

Dunno. Notwithstanding it being Cruz Azul, it feels like it might be a long season.

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You are spot on. First game I have ever thought it was fair to call Bradley a shambles. that makes me worry about Armas actually.

I see little reason to rush Pozuelo or Soteldo into the lineup next week. Give Yefe some training sessions with the guys first and make sure Poz is 100% before he plays. The chances of winning 3-0 in Mexico are too remote.

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Originally Posted by MightyDM

You are spot on. First game I have ever thought it was fair to call Bradley a shambles. that makes me worry about Armas actually.

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His progression as a player is interesting. He started as a primarily attacking two-way midfielder (and had 17 goals one season in Holland), then moved to the double pivot at Roma, then became a holder for us. Now we want to play him two ways again and I just don't think he has it in the tank anymore, especially in Florida heat.

The problem with the middle block press is you need a fast, athletic team. We have some older core players and some who were never that fast to begin with.

Once we got past the half tonight, he looked like he just couldn't close quickly enough. But our off the ball movement when out of possession was generally terrible.

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Originally Posted by Bushmancan

So based on the fact that there is no way Ali and Armas dont go for it. So what is our best 11.


Altidore

Solteldo Poz Akinola

Osorio Delgado

Auro Mavinga Gonzalez Laryea

Westberg

Bono
Bradley
Deleon
Mullinho
New CB
Priso
Okello or Shaf

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I think you might see this:

Altidore

Solteldo Bradley Poz

Osorio Delgado

Auro Mavinga Gonzalez Laryea

Westberg

Akinola doesn't look fully fit yet, though I reaize being played out of position doesn't help him. I'm wondering if Westberg is having issues too, since surely the #1 job is still open. Side note might be needing to ride Mullinho for a while longer especially since there's no way Jozy is going to pull off 90 mins in Azteca.

I have no idea who we play at CB in the return leg if Mavinga isn't back. It's either start two pylons or start one pylon and a completely fresh face as pro - even if its empty playing at the Azteca is really tough for anyone who hasn't had that experience before.

Priso was great. Osorio and Shaf were ok. I really don't get DeLeon as the #10 btw, or at all this season really, he has like one good run a game and does absolutely nothing else.

PRACTICE SET PLAYS FFS

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Originally Posted by MikeForbes

I see little reason to rush Pozuelo or Soteldo into the lineup next week. Give Yefe some training sessions with the guys first and make sure Poz is 100% before he plays. The chances of winning 3-0 in Mexico are too remote.

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Pretty much this but I'm concerned these guys will go there hoping for a miracle.

We will be playing a rested NYRB later that week, in New Jersey.

If we go for it at altitude in a lost cause before coming down to sea level against a motivated pressing team, we are going to be putting ourselves into a hole league wise.

Our shot to control Cruz Azul was tonight. Didn't happen. Move on. Don't get embarrassed next week but don't hurt the season for a long shot

This CONCACAF Champs league edition is over for our team.

Being realistic, the most I expected from this matchup with Cruz Azul was to play very good at "home", resulting in a hard fought draw, and then go down respectably in Mexico City, by not losing with more than 2 goals.

After this first leg all I hope is for TFC management to start in Mexico with the fewest important players possible, and just throw in some of those important players in the last 20-40 minutes, but just for a light jog-out... Including Poz, Yefe and Mavinga.
If they do any different, I will be very pissed.

PS: Do I even consider Jozy a important TFC player at this point in time?
I tend more to a "no" answer...

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Originally Posted by jloome

His progression as a player is interesting. He started as a primarily attacking two-way midfielder (and had 17 goals one season in Holland), then moved to the double pivot at Roma, then became a holder for us. Now we want to play him two ways again and I just don't think he has it in the tank anymore, especially in Florida heat.

The problem with the middle block press is you need a fast, athletic team. We have some older core players and some who were never that fast to begin with.

Once we got past the half tonight, he looked like he just couldn't close quickly enough. But our off the ball movement when out of possession was generally terrible.

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We have the players for Vanneys system, not for Armas'. It is that simple in that respect and will be a problem all season. You also have the midfield challenge. Playing Priso, who has earned his minutes, puts Marky out of position and he doesn't play well there. I think Oso is now our best player in the traditional Bradley role ie with Marky in front of the back four, but if thats the case where does Michael play? Until today he had played well this year and as Dunfield said looks like he picked up an extra step in the off season. Prison and Okello need minutes and fit Armas's style but with Poz, MB, Marky, Oso etc what do you do? Injuries have meant we havent had to ask these questions but we will now. (which is nothing to do with the shambolic defending on set pieces; thats a separate issue. Although Michael Bradley cannot be disinterested as someone said, it's not in his nature. So how does he get beat at the back post two weeks in a row?)

To add, something has to give with the Bradley situation. He can't play a marauding 2-way menace for 90 mins every week and at this point I'd argue he can't play 90 mins every week in general. We can still win with him as a starter but there's no way we can win with him refusing to rest

Also for the record I've never had any issues with OneSoccer. It's a bonus that they also have better personnel than TSN basically everywhere except play-by-play where TSN has a gigantic advantage

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Originally Posted by MightyDM

Although Michael Bradley cannot be disinterested as someone said, it's not in his nature. So how does he get beat at the back post two weeks in a row?)

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Bc Bradley isn't a good defender, especially in aerial duels

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Originally Posted by Yohan

Bc Bradley isn't a good defender, especially in aerial duels

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Fair enough but then why does the coach have him marking that position?

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Originally Posted by DavemTFC

To add, something has to give with the Bradley situation. He can't play a marauding 2-way menace for 90 mins every week and at this point I'd argue he can't play 90 mins every week in general. We can still win with him as a starter but there's no way we can win with him refusing to rest

Also for the record I've never had any issues with OneSoccer. It's a bonus that they also have better personnel than TSN basically everywhere except play-by-play where TSN has a gigantic advantage

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Agreed re One Soccer - great for me in multiple locations. But Wheeler - who I generally like - has to tone it down. Massively. Try the British approach. or at least Luke Wileman's

I slightly disagree about MB. Every week, yes. But not S-W-S; also how do you get the best out of a midfield with the General Oso Poz Marky Priso Okello Fraser Deleon Endoh (who played well tonight BTW); it is a very tricky question

There will be some trimming of the rankings here, without question.

Not to be cynical, but the easy way to get the CB we need is trading of one of Bradley, Delgado, or Osorio. That’s where we have real value and roster depth to work with.

There’s not too many other levers we can pull. Nobody is going to take Gonzalez at his full pay packet. We might get a suitor with a partial buy down but more likely he becomes the new 3rd choice CB. If you’re extremely lucky, somebody swoops in for Akinola or one of the other kids this summer and that allocation money can be applied for something else.

For those who are saying to put out a B/C team for the Mexico leg, I think mailing it in goes against the pride of the players. No way Bradley would put up with that kind of thinking. The team goes as the Captain goes. I'm betting we see a full strength side in Mexico going for it regardless of the League ramifications. If we're lucky, Cruz Azul might think it's already in the bag and play a weakened lineup next week and TFC tries to bushwhack them.

Holy crap what is going on in this thread? I mean, what is the purpose of sport?

How often do you get to play meaningful games in Mexico, against the very best?

Yes Cruz Azul are a very impressive team. But they have to finish it out.

We went into Guadalajara as serious underdogs, with a depleted roster, and came within a whisker.

To a man our guys think they can do it, I guarantee you.

These Cruz Azul guys blew a 4-0 lead after the first leg in the liguilla just a few months ago. They will feel fear if we get to them early.

If we are out of it at the 60 minute mark, sure, clear the bench.

But until then, we go all out. You go out on your shield.

I also want to tip my hat to Cruz Azul. I really like the way that team plays, so much good interplay in close spaces, and they defend really really well.

I enjoy playing against them and being tested against a team of that quality. These are the kinds of games and opponents that should bring out your best. Win or lose.

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Originally Posted by Initial B

For those who are saying to put out a B/C team for the Mexico leg, I think mailing it in goes against the pride of the players. No way Bradley would put up with that kind of thinking. The team goes as the Captain goes. I'm betting we see a full strength side in Mexico going for it regardless of the League ramifications. If we're lucky, Cruz Azul might think it's already in the bag and play a weakened lineup next week and TFC tries to bushwhack them.

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I mean, if framed that way it sounds defeatist. But how did getting thumped in the playoffs last year and burning out in the latter stages of the SS race feel? That was the end product of only looking at what was immediately in front of us and not thinking bigger picture.

We may well make a run to win this tournament in the near future but it more than likely won’t be this year. Let’s not be stupid.

Judging by our subs in the second half, we’ve already hedged our bets.

I really don't care to save guys for a league game. It's early in the season, points barely matter at the moment. If there's anything that we've learned fromt he past it's that what matters in this league is clinching a playoff spot and riding momentum once you're there. The shield, especially after last season's pr debacle, is practially redundant. Obviously don't play anyone that's hurt, but they shoulld definitely play the strongest line-up, especially since we're still adapting to a new playstyle under a new coach.

I was so disappointed with Altidore's effort last night. That first pass was inexcusable! Also last night showed that the 2 starting CBs are just not fit to start any longer. Gonzales is just too slow and Zavaleta is a fourth choice CB at best. The only bright spot for me was the play of Ralph Priso. He calm cool and collective and I can't say that about the other 10 that were on the pitch.

ensco: Totally!