Match Day 27 - Putting the Impact on the Zipper Ride - Montreal @ TFC Sat Aug 27 730

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Originally Posted by hulkrogan

For making a joke about how I'm a bad luck charm? I hope you didn't take that as "I'm not supporting the team anymore because they lost". Not the case at all.

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He was just joking.

In the cold light of the Monday morning, the injury to Seba is likely the worst effect of that game.

The buzz built up will come again.

The work by the SG's on tifo will make a mark on this city - I look at that like the slow clap - give it time to get noticed.

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Originally Posted by PAOK17

Regarding the game, Vanney did acknowledge that our play with a man up didn't make sense. He didn't like the crosses and such. So it seems like he's at least aware about the problem. What I don't understand is that his player selection is what leads to that. You need very technical players to unlock defences that our bunkering. Players like Endoh aren't going to do that for you.

Also, Endoh is going to have to improve his crosses if he wants to have a decent career. He lacks skill and his first touch is poor. It's almost impossible to teach skill at his age.

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This is the problem with every MLS team, you have depth players who lack some aspect of the game.

Vanney's response is that when the other team bunkers down, TFC should take shots at a distance. That shows something they can work on that he is planning to address.

Toronto

Funny thing is...if you ask people, Endoh is a more technically gifted player then the rest of the young players on our team. Scouting on him prior to the draft said he couldn't cross all that far. Yet I've seen him make crosses from less close to the endline that are really good.

His defensive awareness is not good enough yet - lets see if Endoh can learn that over the next few years. I recall we said the same thing of Delgado last season and he really has gotten better at that aspect of his game.

Still rather be us with all these guys under 30 then Montreal, who are creakingly old.

So the first thing I hear on 640am is news about that stupid banner WTF

And the radio guy called TFC "the impact" WTF2

No mention of TFC when they made it to the top, only this shite makes a talk show WTF3

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Originally Posted by RealG-TFC

Ugh just ban the banner and tweet an apology. No need to make it such an issue.

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Exactly, it's sad to see supporters wanting a dumpster fire. Some people won't stop until someone is fired again.

Anyone know who the banner guys is?

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Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN

Anyone know who the banner guys is?

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Not an RPB.

Meant to reply. No edit.

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Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat

Not an RPB.

Meant to reply. No edit.

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in reality TFC only has themselves to blame , they let the dam thing in. A big two stick like that can only be brought in though one gate, guess it was given the most vague of looks.

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Originally Posted by Leedsoronto

So the first thing I hear on 640am is news about that stupid banner WTF

And the radio guy called TFC "the impact" WTF2

No mention of TFC when they made it to the top, only this shite makes a talk show WTF3

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TFC are not big enough to have a proper segment on the news with regards to football - but when something happens in the stands...or outside of the damn stadium - they get front page coverage and hour long conversations on morning shows.

The Media in this city are drama whores. Put that in the fucking news and call it sexist.

Saturday night has come and gone, Sunday has done the same and Monday is now here and I'm still absolutely gutted about the result. We got the result that our performance deserved and I think we can all agree. But I just can't stand losing to those b*astards

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Originally Posted by James17930

But when it's one or two idiots doing something, and EVERYONE ELSE agrees it's wrong, then actually, societally, things are working out pretty well. No reasonable person believes this is okay, and who cares about unreasonable people anyway (as long they're not being violent)?

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Yet nobody did anything about it while there. So there's that. (ref: Edmund Burke, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.") I bet it even made it safely out of the stadium and back into his (mom's?) basement.

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Originally Posted by OgtheDim

SIGH

This is why this thread will be closed.

It's not pseudo sexist.

It is sexist.

And if people think just the CBC is talking about this, it's in the Sun, and will be in every other paper over the next two days.

If people don't think it's wrong, I suggest they ask their mother. And no, some random person on the Internet telling me that their female friends and family don't care does not excuse this.

As I said in the FHRITP discussion last season, this is serious stuff and does and will make some women pause before they go to a TFC game.

We all agree that this stuff isn't wanted. Good.

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QFT

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Originally Posted by ag futbol

Meh, it's just more fodder for partisan idiots to bicker back and forth. Remember FHRITP? Me either, that shit blew over and so will this.

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Actually, what I've found is that this has brought FHRITP right back to the forefront. So, blown over? Not really - and certainly not with a LOT of women.

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Originally Posted by molenshtain

The lack of mainstream press covering the perpetrated hate crimes committed at the end of last season is a much bigger issue than the globe and mail latching on to some psuedo-sexist banner that's totally non-violent in nature.

Let's see what happens in Montreal in October and see how the press reacts to the inevitable outcome.

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So we do nothing because in the past something else bad happened?

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Originally Posted by burlington Red

Not sure if it has already been mentioned but in new stand by bar post game there was a horrible assault where some young lad was out cold for 10 min with blood coming from face n back of head. I don't know what went on prior to it but ambulance n police came. It wasn't something I wanted my 7 yr old seeing

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Toronto FC FO should feel somewhat responsible for this, if not totally responsible. That guy who got KO'd had been ejected from 110 for chucking a beer (or other beverage) into the crowd below. He and his buddies also got in a few scuffles as they left their row. Had security/police escorted him and his buddies out of the stadium, he may well have not ended up in that position. Sure he was literally asking for it, but they shouldn't just let someone not only throwing stuff, but getting into fights just hang around on the concourse afterwards, waiting to fight someone.

Ten years in, and this organization still can't deal with this stuff. There were a lot of tourists so to speak at saturday's game who did not give a fuck about anything other than getting shitfaced and going on snapchat. If they could "participate" by chucking a beer or to, then they just felt so much better about the experience.

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Originally Posted by paul-collins

So we do nothing because in the past something else bad happened?

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What do you mean by "we do nothing."? What are you suggesting and of whom do you refer?

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Originally Posted by OgtheDim

Funny thing is...if you ask people, Endoh is a more technically gifted player then the rest of the young players on our team. Scouting on him prior to the draft said he couldn't cross all that far. Yet I've seen him make crosses from less close to the endline that are really good.

His defensive awareness is not good enough yet - lets see if Endoh can learn that over the next few years. I recall we said the same thing of Delgado last season and he really has gotten better at that aspect of his game.

Still rather be us with all these guys under 30 then Montreal, who are creakingly old.

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The real problem with someone like Endoh (or most NCAA players) is truthfully the 'scouting' on him prior to being drafted would be limited. I think any consensus or opinions on him come from small sample sizes (ie people marveling about him after the season opener), instead of at least a full season to accurately come to a conclusion on him.

From what I've seen, I wouldn't rate him more technically gifted than the likes of Chapman or Delgado. I think all of our young players have strengths and weaknesses that the others either have or don't have. All have had great games and some real stinkers. Some of them will take their skills to the next level (if they get enough playing time/commitment) and what we should be looking for is more consistency in good performances IMO.

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Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat

What do you mean by "we do nothing."? What are you suggesting and of whom do you refer?

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Not being specific about either the "we" or the "do", it's just that the false equivalency that I find irksome.

"Yeah it was bad what was done in our presence but you should have seen what the other guys did that time before, much worse." Who cares about the previous time? That is long gone. We can only deal with the issue in front of us.

The best thing that can be done (now, after the fact) is what seems to be happening. Condemnation by the SGs, serious investigation (and action?) by the FO.

It would have been better if security had've dealt with it at the game (or better yet, at the gate).

I get that a person wouldn't want to get into it directly with the transgressor. If someone who saw it at the time had've alerted security and let them deal with it at the time, that would have been best.

But this is all in retrospect - next time something stupid like this happens, I hope someone thinks of how it can be dealt with earlier rather than later. (And if I see it, I believe I will do so.)

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Originally Posted by paul-collins

Not being specific about either the "we" or the "do", it's just that the false equivalency that I find irksome.

"Yeah it was bad what was done in our presence but you should have seen what the other guys did that time before, much worse." Who cares about the previous time? That is long gone. We can only deal with the issue in front of us.

The best thing that can be done (now, after the fact) is what seems to be happening. Condemnation by the SGs, serious investigation (and action?) by the FO.

It would have been better if security had've dealt with it at the game (or better yet, at the gate).

I get that a person wouldn't want to get into it directly with the transgressor. If someone who saw it at the time had've alerted security and let them deal with it at the time, that would have been best.

But this is all in retrospect - next time something stupid like this happens, I hope someone thinks of how it can be dealt with earlier rather than later. (And if I see it, I believe I will do so.)

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I agree, in an ideal world someone holds up a stupid sign, two stick like that, security asks the game to put it down, take it away , leaving it at that, end of story.

I kind I do of wonder if say a sign like that was noticed by a security guard, taken away with no issue and discarded if he/she would report anything as there really is no issue.

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Originally Posted by Sonny Cheeba

Toronto FC FO should feel somewhat responsible for this, if not totally responsible. That guy who got KO'd had been ejected from 110 for chucking a beer (or other beverage) into the crowd below. He and his buddies also got in a few scuffles as they left their row. Had security/police escorted him and his buddies out of the stadium, he may well have not ended up in that position. Sure he was literally asking for it, but they shouldn't just let someone not only throwing stuff, but getting into fights just hang around on the concourse afterwards, waiting to fight someone.

Ten years in, and this organization still can't deal with this stuff. There were a lot of tourists so to speak at saturday's game who did not give a fuck about anything other than getting shitfaced and going on snapchat. If they could "participate" by chucking a beer or to, then they just felt so much better about the experience.

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security messed up big time on this. The thud that lad's head hit the ground with was sickening.I'm surprised there hasn't been more made of this. That lad was out cold for a lengthy period. We have national press all over us due to a distasteful flag yet not a word about this.

The 'sucks' banner was stupid and deserves a stern finger wagging. I'm more embarrassed about the professionally outraged though.

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Originally Posted by paul-collins

Actually, what I've found is that this has brought FHRITP right back to the forefront. So, blown over? Not really - and certainly not with a LOT of women.

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It was out of the press cycle prior to this. Lasting damage of that last incident? Hard to quantify but I'd guess minimal. What the media decides to use for click bate for a few weeks will blow over.

This is just a means for people who have opposing viewpoints on an existing social issue to yell at each other in the comments section. In a few weeks the anger will die down or they'll direct their venting towards something else that pops up.

Bad behaviour of a few people not to be excused but also not to be exaggerated as something it's not ie this club being somehow different from every other sports team in terms of the type of fans they draw or the supposed acceptance of this behaviour.

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Originally Posted by OgtheDim

SIGH

This is why this thread will be closed.

It's not pseudo sexist.

It is sexist.

And if people think just the CBC is talking about this, it's in the Sun, and will be in every other paper over the next two days.

If people don't think it's wrong, I suggest they ask their mother. And no, some random person on the Internet telling me that their female friends and family don't care does not excuse this.

As I said in the FHRITP discussion last season, this is serious stuff and does and will make some women pause before they go to a TFC game.

We all agree that this stuff isn't wanted. Good.

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It doesn't excuse it, but some people will choose to be offended by it and make a story out of it, and some will choose not to and won't.....its pretty subjective, depending on where each person's limit is.....

Me?.....tbh I didn't even notice the two-stick at the game at all, and I'm assuming most who were at the game didn't either (considering conversation here on it only really started after the article link was posted)....to me that kinda says a bit to how offended people were by it, or at least when they chose to be offended by it.....

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Originally Posted by paul-collins

So we do nothing because in the past something else bad happened?

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No. I'd just prefer reporting to be fair and balanced. This makes it look like a troublesome over the top action on our part, when in reality that's not the case. I don't condone the banner, it was lewd and unnecessary. But we should't face this amount of media scrutiny and possible sanctions for a for less harmful action than what they did last year and got away with scot free.

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Originally Posted by MartinUtd

The 'sucks' banner was stupid and deserves a stern finger wagging. I'm more embarrassed about the professionally outraged though.

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:megaphone::megaphone: :megaphone::megaphone:

Agreed.

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Originally Posted by molenshtain

No. I'd just prefer reporting to be fair and balanced. This makes it look like a troublesome over the top action on our part, when in reality that's not the case. I don't condone the banner, it was lewd and unnecessary. But we should't face this amount of media scrutiny and possible sanctions for a for less harmful action than what they did last year and got away with scot free.

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what did they do last year.?

Most people don't look at the South during the game so no that's not proof of anything. I could have raised this issue on Sunday morning when I first saw it from my overnight twitter feed but chose not to do so because I knew what would happen and I'm tired of having to go over the same ground every time some bozo does something sexist just as I'm tired of once again having to explain to people I know that the vast majority of TFC supporters are not like that.

I'm not "professionally outraged".

I'm personally fucking ticked off.

I just want to support a football team.

So do a lot of women.

Misogynist exclusionary shit like this is not necessary to support this team.

And, yes, it crosses a line.

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MLSE is dealing with the bozo. Good enough for me.

But I'm not a professional getting upset - I'm just a guy who is slowly getting people he knows interested in MLS and TFC. And this sort of bozo crud hurts that.

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Originally Posted by OgtheDim

Most people don't look at the South during the game so no that's not proof of anything. I could have raised this issue on Sunday morning when I first saw it from my overnight twitter feed but chose not to do so because I knew what would happen and I'm tired of having to go over the same ground every time some bozo does something sexist just as I'm tired of once again having to explain to people I know that the vast majority of TFC supporters are not like that.

I'm not "professionally outraged".

I'm personally fucking ticked off.

I just want to support a football team.

So do a lot of women.

Misogynist exclusionary shit like this is not necessary to support this team.

And, yes, it crosses a line.

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MLSE is dealing with the bozo. Good enough for me.

But don't anybody tell me I can't be upset about this because this sort of Bozo eruption crud directly affects my ability to get people interested in going to BMO. Swearing...no issue. Beer...no issue. Misogny...that turns people off.

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and anybody that has half a brain or doesn't have it out for TFC/TFC supporters should be able to understand straight away that most TFC supporters are "not like that" without any explanation needed.

I may be wrong but in the big picture, I doubt many if any women at all will no longer support TFC or go to BMO Field because of it.

You say it crosses a line, and while many people agree with you, that is strictly your opinion which you're certainly entitled to....but it doesn't make it fact. There are just as many people who were not offended by it.

Nobody is saying you can't be upset about it (nobody should anyways, if that's how you feel, then it is what it is). But please understand that there is most likely at least an equal amount of people who could't care less about it.

Had the Montreal supporter in the two-stick been depicted as a male, would it have made any difference?

The professionally outraged comment is really just aimed at people that are literally making a living off this exposure. A cartoon banner depicting fellatio is just plain silly on its face and when our resident Helen Lovejoy showcases quotes like this:

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“I’m happy to sit down with anyone who doesn't get why this is problematic if they want a lesson in 21st century fan culture.”

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I just have to laugh. I'm sorry I'm not meeting this with more concern as if a human rights issue was breached.

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Originally Posted by molenshtain

No. I'd just prefer reporting to be fair and balanced. This makes it look like a troublesome over the top action on our part, when in reality that's not the case. I don't condone the banner, it was lewd and unnecessary. But we should't face this amount of media scrutiny and possible sanctions for a for less harmful action than what they did last year and got away with scot free.

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Did larson really need to do a full article on this -- seems like a news and notes item on a bottom of a column
The banner was offside because their are kids at the game -- i sure stadium staff would have grabbed if they had seen it. I have no problem with this stuff in the forum or twitter.
Only reason this is a story is Impact supporters contacted/flagged this hard for the cbc -- i don't agree with other teams fans using the press to get back at other teams -- use forums, twitter, in stadia cheering, etc.