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egoodwin
02-19-2009, 10:52 PM
So here is the Toronto lacrosse home schedule compared to TFC's

Toronto's home games...

Game Day Game Date Visitor Home Local Time
Friday 5/22/09 Chicago Toronto 7:30 pm - day before TFC/NE game... - lines on pitch
Friday 5/29/09 Long Island Toronto 7:30 pm - TFC away at Houston - no effect
Saturday 6/13/09 Washington Toronto 7:00 pm - 11 days before TFC - no effect
Saturday 6/27/09 Denver Toronto 7:00 pm - TFC away at RSL - no effect
Thursday 7/23/09 Boston Toronto 7:30 pm - TFC away this week at Columbus - no effect
Saturday 8/08/09 Denver Toronto 7:00 pm - day before NY game / less than 24 hours between - lines on pitch

NE and NY could be trouble for BMO, as both games are potentially 24 hrs prior to a TFC game... which could/will result in lines, unless they work overnight to remove the lines off the pitch... which I doubt...

Daveisonfire
02-19-2009, 10:57 PM
wait...so this is confirmed already? we are sharing the stadium with a MLL team?

rocktml
02-19-2009, 10:57 PM
If they have lines on pitch its over!

Damien
02-19-2009, 10:59 PM
i dont think it's confirmed yet, though the MLL is finalizing a deal to transfer an MLL team to Tdot.

Ryan1984
02-19-2009, 11:04 PM
http://www.majorleaguelacrosse.com/news/pressreleases/index.html?article_id=1273


Confirmed

H Bomb
02-19-2009, 11:04 PM
I listened to the owner on the radio this morning. 100% there will be a team in toronto, and they are just finalizing a deal for BMO according to the teams owner

Daveisonfire
02-19-2009, 11:06 PM
http://www.majorleaguelacrosse.com/news/pressreleases/index.html?article_id=1273


Confirmed

Holy shit that site is so badly designed it deserves KD sized font!

goodbye SSS:(

edit: guess it was my browser at the time...looks fine now

Damien
02-19-2009, 11:08 PM
well kiss mah gritz

BleedRed
02-19-2009, 11:10 PM
wow if this happens, all hells gonna break loose...and i hope it does!

sully
02-19-2009, 11:10 PM
So here is the Toronto lacrosse home schedule compared to TFC's

Toronto's home games...

Game Day Game Date Visitor Home Local Time
Friday 5/22/09 Chicago Toronto 7:30 pm - day before TFC/NE game... - lines on pitch
Friday 5/29/09 Long Island Toronto 7:30 pm - TFC away at Houston - no effect
Saturday 6/13/09 Washington Toronto 7:00 pm - 11 days before TFC - no effect
Saturday 6/27/09 Denver Toronto 7:00 pm - TFC away at RSL - no effect
Thursday 7/23/09 Boston Toronto 7:30 pm - TFC away this week at Columbus - no effect
Saturday 8/08/09 Denver Toronto 7:00 pm - day before NY game / less than 24 hours between - lines on pitch

NE and NY could be trouble for BMO, as both games are potentially 24 hrs prior to a TFC game... which could/will result in lines, unless they work overnight to remove the lines off the pitch... which I doubt...

Needless to say, lines on the field would be a disaster...and what about the impact on Toronto FC's practice sessions?

Nuvinho
02-19-2009, 11:11 PM
maybe that's why the NE game time is TBD, they have to figure out how long it will take to get the lines out.

sully
02-19-2009, 11:14 PM
wait a minute..where does it say they would play at BMO?

Phil
02-19-2009, 11:14 PM
There was mention at some point about this being a possibility and it was said that the lines most likely would come off during play with regular sweat. They seem pretty confident about being able to groom lacrosse lines out quickly.

Its not as bad or as covering as 'gridiron'.

I am cuirous to see if that is true though.

BleedRed
02-19-2009, 11:16 PM
wait...does this also mean the possibility of grass? :)

nfitz
02-19-2009, 11:21 PM
If they have lines on pitch its over!Wonderful - I can get seasons!

egoodwin
02-19-2009, 11:21 PM
for the most part it doesn't look too bad of a schedule comparison... just these two days...

I'm sure they can remove the paint, but I'm awfully skeptical about whether they can do it in the period of one night

Bender
02-19-2009, 11:25 PM
Needless to say, lines on the field would be a disaster...and what about the impact on Toronto FC's practice sessions?

There won't be any lines on the pitch. the Los Angeles team plays at the home depot centre, and you don't see lacrosse lines on their pitch during galaxy games.

scut farkus
02-19-2009, 11:27 PM
I don't know too much about field lacrosse, but it looks like to me that their playing field is very similar to a soccer pitch...lines included. Maybe they won't need to add anything at all.

Cashcleaner
02-19-2009, 11:33 PM
I think someone posted up a pic of another stadium that holds both soccer and lacrosse games and the lines were pretty hard to see even for lacrosse. I don't see this development as being too big of a deal.

egoodwin
02-19-2009, 11:39 PM
There won't be any lines on the pitch. the Los Angeles team plays at the home depot centre, and you don't see lacrosse lines on their pitch during galaxy games.
question is, how long between lacrosse and games there?

egoodwin
02-19-2009, 11:40 PM
I think someone posted up a pic of another stadium that holds both soccer and lacrosse games and the lines were pretty hard to see even for lacrosse. I don't see this development as being too big of a deal.
it's not that big of a deal really, the two schedules for the most part fit..

though next year BMO Field should be adamant on no lacrosse on the same weekend as a TFC homegame

Dirk Diggler
02-19-2009, 11:47 PM
Yea the lines shouldn't be a problem ... they barely have any markings on the field.

As an aside, did anyone watch the Totenham v Shaktar game today? Why the hell did they have gridiron lines on the pitch? That was quite random.

Cashcleaner
02-19-2009, 11:49 PM
^^ Or at least play TFC first. Like on a Saturday and have lacrosse on Sunday. That would work.

To be honest though, I don't see outdoor lacrosse surviving in Toronto. I got nothing against the sport, but soccer, gridiron, and baseball already draw big crowds and I don't see people paying for lacrosse on top of all that.

nfitz
02-20-2009, 12:05 AM
[quote=Cashcleaner;381214To be honest though, I don't see outdoor lacrosse surviving in Toronto. I got nothing against the sport, but soccer, gridiron, and baseball already draw big crowds and I don't see people paying for lacrosse on top of all that.[/quote]Could be a different crowd - I'm sure many of us don't get to a lot of Jays or Argos games.

Shakes McQueen
02-20-2009, 12:08 AM
I think someone posted up a pic of another stadium that holds both soccer and lacrosse games and the lines were pretty hard to see even for lacrosse. I don't see this development as being too big of a deal.

Don't let this man's reasonable response get in the way of rioting about this, people. :D

- Scott

Hitcho
02-20-2009, 12:13 AM
I'll be pissed as all hell if there are visible lines on the pitch. I know it's a community stadium but we're the primary tenants and it's the national fucking soccer stadium for shit's sake! I'm in for any and all protests if this does become an issue.

If not, and there's no other impact on the pitch, stadium or training sessions for TFC - then welcome to BMO Field strange stick wielding people!

loconet
02-20-2009, 12:17 AM
Why must they FUCK UP a good thing. Shit is going to hit the fan if there are visible lines.

Keyman
02-20-2009, 12:17 AM
So I'll start the betting...

$500 says this team fails, and miserably too.

gmacpheetfc
02-20-2009, 12:25 AM
Im pretty sure they don't add any additional line to the field except a crease which is pretty much the half moon atop the 18 yard box i might be wrong but its a quick fix and definite 24 hours turn over

Whoop
02-20-2009, 12:32 AM
So I'll start the betting...

$500 says this team fails, and miserably too.

I'm with you there.

Bender
02-20-2009, 12:45 AM
Yeah same, i doubt this league takes off in canada at all... it severely lacks the physical play that you see with the indoor game.

twistedchinaman
02-20-2009, 12:57 AM
There won't be any lines on the pitch. the Los Angeles team plays at the home depot centre, and you don't see lacrosse lines on their pitch during galaxy games.

They don't play on the same field at the HDC. The Riptide use the field NEXT to the footy stadium; not the same one.

Dirk Diggler
02-20-2009, 01:02 AM
I think the team in Chicago shares the field with Chicago Fire at Toyota Park.

twistedchinaman
02-20-2009, 01:06 AM
I think the team in Chicago shares the field with Chicago Fire at Toyota Park.

^ THAT is true.

Cashcleaner
02-20-2009, 01:26 AM
Could be a different crowd - I'm sure many of us don't get to a lot of Jays or Argos games.

I don't know about that. I make it out to all three summer sports as much as I can. I'd probably go and check out Lacrosse as well if I had the cash and space time for it.

Keystone FC
02-20-2009, 04:36 AM
I'd have to say this expansion to Toronto seems a bit rushed. We only heard about rumors of this happpening a few months ago, and Toronto was not on the original list of cities MLL was looking to expand:
http://www.majorleaguelacrosse.com/teams/mllexpansion/
Usually there is some blip on the radar as far as a new team in T.O. or a expansion in a league or new logo, but nothing has been seen or heard.
Some have said that the team will fail, I will go one further and point out that the MLL has gone from 10 to 6 clubs including Toronto from last season. I predict that the league will close up shop either halfway or at the end of the season.

twistedchinaman
02-20-2009, 05:03 AM
I'd have to say this expansion to Toronto seems a bit rushed. We only heard about rumors of this happpening a few months ago, and Toronto was not on the original list of cities MLL was looking to expand:
http://www.majorleaguelacrosse.com/teams/mllexpansion/
Usually there is some blip on the radar as far as a new team in T.O. or a expansion in a league or new logo, but nothing has been seen or heard.
Some have said that the team will fail, I will go one further and point out that the MLL has gone from 10 to 6 clubs including Toronto from last season. I predict that the league will close up shop either halfway or at the end of the season.

It looks pretty bad, it might barely hold on...or not.

Bender
02-20-2009, 05:53 AM
I'd have to say this expansion to Toronto seems a bit rushed. We only heard about rumors of this happpening a few months ago, and Toronto was not on the original list of cities MLL was looking to expand:
http://www.majorleaguelacrosse.com/teams/mllexpansion/
Usually there is some blip on the radar as far as a new team in T.O. or a expansion in a league or new logo, but nothing has been seen or heard.
Some have said that the team will fail, I will go one further and point out that the MLL has gone from 10 to 6 clubs including Toronto from last season. I predict that the league will close up shop either halfway or at the end of the season.

Hmm good point. Especially in these economic times.

drewski
02-20-2009, 07:12 AM
I think someone posted up a pic of another stadium that holds both soccer and lacrosse games and the lines were pretty hard to see even for lacrosse. I don't see this development as being too big of a deal.

here ya go...


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/61/PAETEC_Park_overview.JPG/800px-PAETEC_Park_overview.JPG


and these are the lines/dimensions

http://www.lacrosse2.com/images/0000000.jpg

besides the wing lines, zone lines and crease, the lines are practically identical. I know thats still to much for some people but its better then a football field by far, or even a rugby field (which a number of Euro teams, including elites like ManU have to share their pitch with).

As for longevity, well, its definitely possible the league will fold, but I'm hoping the contraction will help to temporarily stabilize things. For TO specifically, there's a fair bit of field lax played in Ontario, espeically at the university level. between those players and Rock fans who love lax but just haven't been exposed to the sport, I think they have a chance, especially if they can start winning right away, which is possible given the roster we're fielding from the start, which includes over 10 players from the defending champs.

drewski
02-20-2009, 07:17 AM
I'd have to say this expansion to Toronto seems a bit rushed. We only heard about rumors of this happpening a few months ago, and Toronto was not on the original list of cities MLL was looking to expand:
http://www.majorleaguelacrosse.com/teams/mllexpansion/
Usually there is some blip on the radar as far as a new team in T.O. or a expansion in a league or new logo, but nothing has been seen or heard.
Some have said that the team will fail, I will go one further and point out that the MLL has gone from 10 to 6 clubs including Toronto from last season. I predict that the league will close up shop either halfway or at the end of the season.


more of a relocation then expansion

Fort York Redcoat
02-20-2009, 08:49 AM
They can piss off and play in a more suitable stadium. Varsity, anywhere but BMO.

They are totally trying to fly under the radar with this one. What's the point? An unsuccessful team/sport moving somewhere most don't want it. I'm sick of this attitude of "You need better attendance? Go to BMO. They're doing fine!"

Toronto Gunner
02-20-2009, 08:55 AM
IF they play at BMO there won't be any field lines. Our front office staff know us too well to think that we wouldn't tear the place apart if our boys had to play with field lines - it just couldn't happen.

If it did happen (big if), it would make us angry, and they won't like us when we're angry!:hulk:

Hitcho
02-20-2009, 09:23 AM
The very concept of building a national soccer stadium and then putting lines on the pitch for other sports is just incredibly stupid. It's hard enough to get the CMNT here anyway, if there are lines on the pitch for some piece of shit sport no-one really cares about (a few thousand in the city, tops) then they are NEVER going to play at their supposed "home".

Plus the fact TFC might be getting arse fucked on this too. I know the city owns the stadium, but it was essentially designed to be a SSS once the final plans were in place, no? TFC is the primary tenant, has got a massive fan base, sells out the stadium every week with a waiting list of around another 10k fans and the fans are noisy and passionate to the extent they have generated a buzz in the city about what's going on at BMO Field. It's not fair to TFC to fuck up their pitch with lines from some crap sport that won't even make a dent on the finances the way TFC has.

Is the city driving this or are MLSE on board too? Who owns this piece of shit stick shagging team?

As I've said many times before on here - if there are no visible lines, no impact on the stadium livery and TFC isn't affected in any way (including training sessions for the players not in the first team) then fair enough, let the lax guys in and share the wealth. But if TFC gets fucked over in any way, then this is bang out of order.

What worries me is that there has been no public assurance from anyone at the city or the club (or MLSE) that if this goes ahead, then there will definitely not be any impact on TFC in terms of lines on the pitch etc. If they are confident that's the case, then make a statement to that effect, end the disquiet. They could even couch it in terms of IF this goes ahead, don't worry, there won't be any lines left after the lax games.

Nomad
02-20-2009, 09:29 AM
Lacrosse is your National Sport.

Eastend
02-20-2009, 09:38 AM
I am not a lacrosse fan or hater, but I find it funny that people say this team/league will fail before the team even steps on a field here in our city. Kind of sounds to me like what people were saying about TFC before our beloved team started play.

I understand and completely agree with the opposition a lot of people have of this team coming in to our house to play but given the other possibilities this is better then the ARGOS coming in....no?

drewski
02-20-2009, 09:40 AM
what is TFC's practice schedule like?

I can all but guarantee that the lax team won't be practicing there, so the only POSSIBLE interference is between a lax game and TFC practice. and given MLSE owns TFC, runs BMO, as is ultimately profit driven, I don't see there being a chance in hell that they'd let any non-MLSE schedule anything such that there was any chance it could throw off one of their money makers

Wagner
02-20-2009, 09:42 AM
Didn't the front office go to Rochester or something to learn about some technology to quickly apply and remove field lines?

SweetOwnGoal
02-20-2009, 09:43 AM
This reaction is absurd. I understand the resistance to the CFL since it would require a major renovation to the stadium and our seats would be pushed back about 10-yaerds from the pitch. No one wants that.

But are you really getting your panties in a knot about a bloody field lacrosse team putting a couple lines on the pitch? Like somehow these little circles are going to wreck the purity of our football shrine...

You do realize we play on FieldTurf, right? We don't have a football shrine. What we have is a community owned stadium that has a primary purpose of hosting soccer games. Not only, primary. See, soccer specific stadium does not mean soccer only. It means that it is designed with soccer in mind and that the soccer team is the primary tenant. We've already had a concert in the stadium, so I hate to break it to you but BMO's non soccer "virginity" is already broken (plus I would expect some Canadian football is played on it by community members).

If the SGs have a temper tantrum over a few faded lines that appear on the pitch for two home games and that do not impact the game play or our sightlines in any way whatsoever, than we will deserve any and all scorn that is cast upon us. We'd be acting like a spoiled 3-year-old.

Many of you here are somewhat new to supporting domestic football. You don't understand the struggles that the game went through in this country to find places to play and to be taken seriously. Having finally achieved a level of acceptance, I don't feel at all comfortable shitting on another small sport that just wants a place to play. It wasn't that long ago that soccer was in the same position that this lacrosse team is in now.
Y'all need to get over yourselves.

Eastend
02-20-2009, 09:46 AM
....if anything I'd be more pissed with all the community use that ages our pitch faster for our professional team.

Afra
02-20-2009, 09:47 AM
The very concept of building a national soccer stadium and then putting lines on the pitch for other sports is just incredibly stupid. It's hard enough to get the CMNT here anyway, if there are lines on the pitch for some piece of shit sport no-one really cares about (a few thousand in the city, tops) then they are NEVER going to play at their supposed "home".

Plus the fact TFC might be getting arse fucked on this too. I know the city owns the stadium, but it was essentially designed to be a SSS once the final plans were in place, no? TFC is the primary tenant, has got a massive fan base, sells out the stadium every week with a waiting list of around another 10k fans and the fans are noisy and passionate to the extent they have generated a buzz in the city about what's going on at BMO Field. It's not fair to TFC to fuck up their pitch with lines from some crap sport that won't even make a dent on the finances the way TFC has.

Is the city driving this or are MLSE on board too? Who owns this piece of shit stick shagging team?

As I've said many times before on here - if there are no visible lines, no impact on the stadium livery and TFC isn't affected in any way (including training sessions for the players not in the first team) then fair enough, let the lax guys in and share the wealth. But if TFC gets fucked over in any way, then this is bang out of order.

What worries me is that there has been no public assurance from anyone at the city or the club (or MLSE) that if this goes ahead, then there will definitely not be any impact on TFC in terms of lines on the pitch etc. If they are confident that's the case, then make a statement to that effect, end the disquiet. They could even couch it in terms of IF this goes ahead, don't worry, there won't be any lines left after the lax games.

Good to see that aside from your burning resentment, you are neutral on the matter.

I am sure (with all of the complaints about turf vs grass and field lines at other stadiums), they will come up with something to get those lines off the pitch for footy.

drewski
02-20-2009, 09:55 AM
You do realize we play on FieldTurf, right? We don't have a football shrine. What we have is a community owned stadium that has a primary purpose of hosting soccer games. Not only, primary. See, soccer specific stadium does not mean soccer only. It means that it is designed with soccer in mind and that the soccer team is the primary tenant. We've already had a concert in the stadium, so I hate to break it to you but BMO's non soccer "virginity" is already broken (plus I would expect some Canadian football is played on it by community members).

If the SGs have a temper tantrum over a few faded lines that appear on the pitch for two home games and that do not impact the game play or our sightlines in any way whatsoever, than we will deserve any and all scorn that is cast upon us. We'd be acting like a spoiled 3-year-old.

Many of you here are somewhat new to supporting domestic football. You don't understand the struggles that the game went through in this country to find places to play and to be taken seriously. Having finally achieved a level of acceptance, I don't feel at all comfortable shitting on another small sport that just wants a place to play. It wasn't that long ago that soccer was in the same position that this lacrosse team is in now.
Y'all need to get over yourselves.

and I as I've said before, many football shrines, like Old Trafford, have sports like rubgy (which has far more lines then field lax) played in them so the belief that BMO shouldn't have other sports played in it is a bit absurd.

That being said, I can totally see, and support the idea that whatever other sports/events should be totally scheduled AROUND TFC's schedule of games & practices such that they not provide any meaningful interference (a few washed out barely visible lines on the field aren't meaning interference)

tfcmanu
02-20-2009, 10:05 AM
Boston, Mass. - Major League Lacrosse (MLL) today announced their schedule for the 2009 regular season. The ninth season of Major League Lacrosse kicks off on May 15 when Washington hosts Toronto, the newest addition to the MLL.

According to MLL Commissioner David Gross, the 2009 season will feature a total of six teams, including the Boston Cannons, Chicago Machine, Denver Outlaws, Long Island Lizards, and Washington Bayhawks. The sixth franchise will located in Toronto, Ontario, and will play their home games at BMO Field, home of Major League Soccer's Toronto FC. A name and logo for the Toronto franchise will be unveiled at a press conference Friday, February 20 at Toronto's Air Canada Centre.

The 2009 season begins with a single game the evening of Friday May 15 as Washington and Toronto meet at Navy-Marine-Corps Memorial Stadium, the new home of the Bayhawks. Coach John Tucker will be in his first game at the helm for Washington. Face-off is scheduled for 7:30 pm ET. On Saturday, May 16, the Boston Cannons will host the Long Island Lizards at Harvard Stadium, and the Denver Outlaws will host the Chicago Machine at INVESCO Field.

The Warrior Major League Challenge and MLL Collegiate Draft will again fall between the second and third weeks of the regular season and will take place on Wednesday, May 27. A venue will be announced at a later date.

In week five, Chicago travels east for their first visit to Boston in team history. The Machine will play a second time at Harvard Stadium in week 10, when they face the Cannons again on Saturday, July 18. Also in week five, the Long Island Lizards will make their first appearance at Denver's INVESCO Field when they battle the Outlaws.

Week seven of the schedule sees a team playing two games in a single weekend for just the second time in League history when Toronto travels to Boston on Thursday, June 25 before returning north of the border to host Denver on Saturday, June 27. The last and only time that teams played multiple games in the same weekend during the regular season was back in 2006, when Los Angeles and San Francisco played a pair of games against each other on consecutive days in late July.

Between weeks nine and 10, the Denver Outlaws will once again host the MLL All-Star Game on Thursday, July 16.

Due to the reduction in the number of teams, the Eastern and Western Conferences will be eliminated for the 2009 season. At the conclusion of the regular season, the four teams with the best overall records will advance to New Balance Championship weekend in Annapolis, MD. The two semifinal games will take place on Saturday, August 22 with the winners advancing to the championship game on Sunday, August 23.

Major League Lacrosse will announce the 2009 ESPN2 television schedule in the coming weeks.

2009 Major League Lacrosse Schedule


Game Day Game Date Visitor Home Local Time
Friday 5/15/09 Toronto Washington 7:30 pm
Saturday 5/16/09 Long Island Boston 7:00 pm
Saturday 5/16/09 Chicago Denver 7:00 pm

Thursday 5/21/09 Washington Long Island 7:00 pm
Friday 5/22/09 Denver Boston 7:30 pm
Friday 5/22/09 Chicago Toronto 7:30 pm

Friday 5/29/09 Long Island Toronto 7:30 pm
Saturday 5/30/09 Boston Chicago 3:00 pm
Saturday 5/30/09 Washington Denver 7:00 pm

Thursday 6/04/09 Toronto Washington 7:30 pm
Friday 6/05/09 Boston Long Island 7:00 pm
Sunday 6/07/09 Denver Chicago 3:00 pm

Saturday 6/13/09 Chicago Boston 7:00 pm
Saturday 6/13/09 Long Island Denver 7:00 pm
Saturday 6/13/09 Washington Toronto 7:00 pm

Friday 6/19/09 Boston Washington 7:30 pm
Saturday 6/20/09 Toronto Denver 7:00 pm
Saturday 6/20/09 Chicago Long Island 7:00 pm

Thursday 6/25/09 Toronto Boston 7:00 pm
Saturday 6/27/09 Washington Chicago 7:00 pm
Saturday 6/27/09 Denver Toronto 7:00 pm

Saturday 7/04/09 Toronto Chicago 7:00 pm
Saturday 7/04/09 Boston Denver 7:00 pm
Saturday 7/04/09 Long Island Washington 7:00 pm

Thursday 7/09/09 Boston Long Island 7:00 pm

Thursday 7/16/09 All-Star Game - Denver, CO 8:00 pm

Saturday 7/18/09 Chicago Boston 7:00 pm
Saturday 7/18/09 Denver Washington 7:00 pm
Saturday 7/18/09 Toronto Long Island 8:00 pm

Thursday 7/23/09 Boston Toronto 7:30 pm
Saturday 7/25/09 Washington Chicago 7:00 pm
Saturday 7/25/09 Long Island Denver 7:00 pm

Friday 7/31/09 Denver Long Island 7:00 pm
Saturday 8/01/09 Chicago Washington 7:00 pm

Thursday 8/06/09 Washington Boston 7:30 pm
Saturday 8/08/09 Long Island Chicago 7:00 pm
Saturday 8/08/09 Denver Toronto 7:00 pm

Saturday 8/22/09 Semifinal #1 12:00 pm
Saturday 8/22/09 Semifinal #2 3:00 pm
Sunday 8/23/09 Championship Annapolis, MD 1:00 pm
http://www.laxpower.com/laxnews/news.php?story=12394

rocker
02-20-2009, 10:09 AM
so they only play 6 games at BMO.

Hitcho
02-20-2009, 10:15 AM
I think everyone understands that it's a community stadium and the point about small sports needing some grounding is a valid one.

The dfference of opinion on here seems to be about the impact level people are willing to tolerate. Some don't really care about lines on the pitch. To others, it's a huge issue. To a very few, any level of other sports in our temple is unacceptable even if there is no visual or other impact. The last point of view is not sustainable given the set up we have. The rest is a grey area with people drawing their lines of acceptance in deifferent places.

The biggest factor for me is that the fan support has made TFC a huge success. We're no longer a small sport trying to get a foot in - TFC is a big deal in Toronto and could potentially outsell every other sport in the city on a per game basis. Now if the ACC was going to have lines laid down udner the ice for another sport or purpose, leaf fans would go ape shit. Granted they have more history than TFC do by some distance and the ACC is not woned by the city, but the reason they'd get pissed off is because they consider themselves a big deal and above that. A lot of TFC fans feel the same way, despite the tender age of the club. 20,000 fans a game with a waiting list of another 10,000 just for season tickets (nevermind public demand for no-season tickets) makes us a big deal, especially when you look at shirt sales and the reputation for energy and passion TFC fans have already got.

So i think that's why some people are pissed about the whole thing. it doesn;t change the fact we're in a community owned stadium and have only 2 years of history behind us, but you can see their point nonetheless.

Bottom line is, if there are no visible lines left behind and no other noticeable impact to speak of, then no-one will care and most would support the idea. Until we get some definite info on this, the rest is just pie in the sky though.

Hitcho
02-20-2009, 10:16 AM
so they only play 6 games at BMO.

yeahm but if the first game leaves lines on the pitch for the entire MLS season, what difference does it make how many games they do or don't play?

Just saying if though, to make the point...

GabrielHurl
02-20-2009, 10:25 AM
yeahm but if the first game leaves lines on the pitch for the entire MLS season, what difference does it make how many games they do or don't play?

and what if they don't?

rocker
02-20-2009, 10:29 AM
yeahm but if the first game leaves lines on the pitch for the entire MLS season, what difference does it make how many games they do or don't play?

Just saying if though, to make the point...

i wasn't making any comment to anybody about anything, nothing to do with lines.

I just made a random comment that they only play 6 games. :)

BleedRed
02-20-2009, 10:35 AM
We should use this lax team to practice chants/songs for TFC games! :) that would be the sweet! plus i dont have south end tickets :( so it would be especially awsome for me :D

Fort York Redcoat
02-20-2009, 10:40 AM
This reaction is absurd. I understand the resistance to the CFL since it would require a major renovation to the stadium and our seats would be pushed back about 10-yaerds from the pitch. No one wants that.

But are you really getting your panties in a knot about a bloody field lacrosse team putting a couple lines on the pitch? Like somehow these little circles are going to wreck the purity of our football shrine...

You do realize we play on FieldTurf, right? We don't have a football shrine. What we have is a community owned stadium that has a primary purpose of hosting soccer games. Not only, primary. See, soccer specific stadium does not mean soccer only. It means that it is designed with soccer in mind and that the soccer team is the primary tenant. We've already had a concert in the stadium, so I hate to break it to you but BMO's non soccer "virginity" is already broken (plus I would expect some Canadian football is played on it by community members).

If the SGs have a temper tantrum over a few faded lines that appear on the pitch for two home games and that do not impact the game play or our sightlines in any way whatsoever, than we will deserve any and all scorn that is cast upon us. We'd be acting like a spoiled 3-year-old.

Many of you here are somewhat new to supporting domestic football. You don't understand the struggles that the game went through in this country to find places to play and to be taken seriously. Having finally achieved a level of acceptance, I don't feel at all comfortable shitting on another small sport that just wants a place to play. It wasn't that long ago that soccer was in the same position that this lacrosse team is in now.
Y'all need to get over yourselves.

Yes this comarative newb has his boxers in bind because this is one step further away from what I (and I'm not alone) want. What's the likelihood of getting grass now? Better or worse? They've found an excuse now that there's groundshare.

Yes you've been waiting a lot longer than most but I think you're selling yourself short on this one. I'm sure there's a part of you that would smile to see a soccer only stadium.

And which Rugby team team plays their matches at Old Trafford?

arbogast
02-20-2009, 10:45 AM
Lacrosse is your National Sport.


it's yours too:canada:

Bloor West FC
02-20-2009, 10:50 AM
Don't we already have the Toronto Rock?????

GabrielHurl
02-20-2009, 10:51 AM
And which Rugby team team plays their matches at Old Trafford?

England Rugby league and Rugby Union matches have been played there.

And for the last 11 years - the Super League Grand Final is played there

GabrielHurl
02-20-2009, 10:55 AM
Don't we already have the Toronto Rock?????

Different league - that's indoor lacrosse

Fort York Redcoat
02-20-2009, 10:59 AM
England Rugby league and Rugby Union matches have been played there.

And for the last 11 years - the Super League Grand Final is played there

My point. Old Trafford hosts rugby. It's not home to any team. You may find the point moot. I do not.

nfitz
02-20-2009, 10:59 AM
....if anything I'd be more pissed with all the community use that ages our pitch faster for our professional team.Indeed. You can see the faint lines from this usage on BMO during games ... but no one seems to complain about that.

drewski
02-20-2009, 11:01 AM
And which Rugby team team plays their matches at Old Trafford?

they play the Rugby League super final there and have had other games played there for decades.

Hull and wigan share their pitch full time with the cities rugby teams, Ajax shared with the NFL-E to name a few others

Carts
02-20-2009, 11:01 AM
If I have the right field in this image (simply listed as field lacrosse) I'm guessing there would have to be a few lines painted... The circle crease, and the dreaded added sidelines that show the 'wing' area...

http://www.sportspectator.com/fancentral/lacrosse_men/lacrosse_diagram.gif

I don't like this one bit...

Carts...

Carts
02-20-2009, 11:02 AM
I've also found this image of a field lacross playing surface...

http://www.sportspectator.com/fancentral/lacrosse_women/lacrosse_diagram.gif

drewski
02-20-2009, 11:05 AM
Don't we already have the Toronto Rock?????

thats indoor, different type of game

drewski
02-20-2009, 11:09 AM
you can see an MLL field about halfway down

http://majorleaguelacrosse.com.ismmedia.com/ISM3/std-content/repos/Top/mll-overview-web-0ct09.jpg

GabrielHurl
02-20-2009, 11:17 AM
My point. Old Trafford hosts rugby. It's not home to any team. You may find the point moot. I do not.

No-one said Old Trafford was home to any team, did they? :noidea:

Fort York Redcoat
02-20-2009, 11:45 AM
No-one said Old Trafford was home to any team, did they? :noidea:

No but no one said that Old Trafford and other football shrines know the difference between hosting an event and groundsharing. It makes a difference to their supporters and to me.

Cashcleaner
02-20-2009, 12:04 PM
Yes this comarative newb has his boxers in bind because this is one step further away from what I (and I'm not alone) want. What's the likelihood of getting grass now? Better or worse? They've found an excuse now that there's groundshare.

Yes you've been waiting a lot longer than most but I think you're selling yourself short on this one. I'm sure there's a part of you that would smile to see a soccer only stadium.

And which Rugby team team plays their matches at Old Trafford?

This development will have absolutely no impact on whether or not BMO Field gets grass. I absolutely guarantee it.

Hitcho
02-20-2009, 02:04 PM
^ Out of interest, what drives you to say that Cash?

Hitcho
02-20-2009, 02:09 PM
I'm 100% with Forts on this one.

I would love to see BMO Field as 100% TFC property, it's important to football fans and it's a big part of what gives "home" advantage. It's not just that you have your fans behind you, it's that the place is your fortress, your temple, your own backyard where no-one can bully you. If it's actually used by other teams and has other sports lines painted on it, then you lose a big part of the mental edge of being at "home".

Besides which, as I posted above, TFC is primary tenant and it's the NATIONAL soccer stadium. Which makes this whole idea stick in the throat somewhat, regardless of any impact or not.

I know the place is partkly owned by the city, but as I understand it the deal was "ok, you guys get the stadium as your home but you have to let us host community soccer events in there too as part of the deal". For obvious reasons no-one really minds that deal too much. But now it's being changed, so I think everyone who has a stake in the club (and SSH, part SSH, regular attendees and anyone who invests time and money in jerseys etc are all stakeholders in my book) has a right to be a bit put out by this turn of events.

THIS IS OUR HOUSE!!!!!!!!!

Cashcleaner
02-20-2009, 02:13 PM
^^ Even if this team lasts more than a few years (which I am doubtful of), the organisation is never growing to grow in a way to seriously contest any of the other established summer sports in Toronto. Looking at factors of ownership and who controls the club, its all small potatoes compared to the sort of businesses MLSE deals with on a daily basis. MLL as a league doesn't look like its in great shape as a whole with regards to attendance and I don't see Toronto's inclusion bucking that trend. And with that said, a team playing at BMO Field for only 6 games or so a season in a league with an average attendance of around 5000 a game simply doesn't have the leverage to create any headaches.

Hitcho
02-20-2009, 02:19 PM
^ Intuitively, you might be right. but the MLL side isn't going to come in on a handshake - they will have a written, legally binding agreement and it's entirely likely that part of that agreement will mean that, for the duration of their lease, no substantive changes which might impact on the MLL team or its games will be made to BMO Field (or at least not without prior written approval). otherwise, they might be walking into minefield instead of a new home. In that instance, they could cause a huge fucking headache in terms of getting grass down.

Now I agree, the licence might say "we can put grass down if we want to or otherwise change the playing surface to new field turf etc" and in that case, you'd be right. but unless we see the licence agreement, we won't know for sure.

Paul - care to post it on here?! :D

Cashcleaner
02-20-2009, 02:23 PM
^ That's true, but as a generality I just think the MLL franchise simply won't have the clout to dictate any terms to MLSE as operators of the stadium or the city as owners.

Dirk Diggler
02-20-2009, 02:29 PM
Guys .... BMO Field is a publicly funded stadium ... learn to live with this.

drewski
02-20-2009, 02:34 PM
as an insignt into MLSE lease agreements, the Rock's schedule gets moved around depending on the other, MLSE owned, teams schedules. Last year, the home finale was moved a day (at the last minute) because of a Raptor's playoff game.

Since other teams on the league play on grass, changing the field to grass I don't think that, or frankly any other change to BMO short of tearing it down, would have any substantive effect on the MLL team, but as you said, we can't know for sure.

If there was any clause in the contract with regard to changes to BMO, I imagine it would be an out clause, not a veto. Given the relative power/money of MLSE and the MLL team owners, I'm also quite sure MLSE's lawyers are a lot better then the MLL's so their side of the ocntract would hold all the power.

Hitcho
02-20-2009, 02:42 PM
Guys .... BMO Field is a publicly funded stadium ... learn to live with this.

Sorry dude, but whilst I accept the basic fact that BMO Field is publicly owned, I cannot agree with that attitude.

What if the Argos come back into the picture and we get pointy ball lines permanently on the pitch and the stands all get moved back and turned half blue? Do we have to "learn to live" with that too and just take it up the ass without so much as a murmur? Extreme and controversial point I know, but it underlines the position you're adopting.

Besides which no-one is threatening armageddon over this, and publicly owned or not we have all put a lot into TFC and BMO Field and that, frnakly, gives us a valid opinion to hold.

Dirk Diggler
02-20-2009, 02:49 PM
Argos are not the same as this new lacrosse team for reasons that you listed within your own post ... thus any comparison is moot to begin with.

drewski
02-20-2009, 03:54 PM
and they have a name. TFC will be sharing BMO with the Toronto Nationals

Cashcleaner
02-20-2009, 03:58 PM
^ Got a link or some pics?

giambac
02-20-2009, 03:59 PM
There won't be any lines on the pitch. the Los Angeles team plays at the home depot centre, and you don't see lacrosse lines on their pitch during galaxy games.

If they play here there will be lines.......don't kid yourself.

drewski
02-20-2009, 04:00 PM
http://torontonationals.com.ismmedia.com/ISM3/std-content/repos/Top/Images/web2.jpg

http://www.torontonationals.com/

cool logo at least.

nice to see the got the Iroquois nation in there

deltox
02-20-2009, 04:24 PM
heres the roster
Toronto

Solomon Bliss
Dan Brennan
Brett Bucktooth
Joe Ceglia
Joe Cinosky
Dan Cocoziello
Will Dalton
Colin Doyle
John Grant Jr.
Sean Greenhalgh
Greg Gurenlian
Jordan Hall
Jonathan Iannucci
Brendan Loftus
Brodie Merrill
Nick O'Hara
Casey Powell
Gavin Prout
Brett Queener
Lewis Ratcliff
Rob Scherr
Joe Smith
Merrick Thomson
Daryl Veltman
Joe Walters
Jeff Zywicki


MLL Drops Four Teams
Major League Lacrosse will be a six-team league in 2009, minus Los Angeles, Philadelphia, New Jersey and San Francisco and with a new franchise in Toronto. Revised player rosters were released Thursday

Cashcleaner
02-20-2009, 04:26 PM
If they play here there will be lines.......don't kid yourself.

And you're basing that off of what information?

Roogsy
02-20-2009, 04:31 PM
I am not a fan of Lacrosse but people should be allowed to play the sport of their choice.

That being said...I am supremely concerned about the condition of the pitch with all this use.

Hitcho
02-20-2009, 04:45 PM
Argos are not the same as this new lacrosse team for reasons that you listed within your own post ... thus any comparison is moot to begin with.

No, you've missed the point Dirk. I wasn't drawng a comparison. I was applying your reasoning to situation B (argos) instead of situation A (lax) to highlight why i disagreed with it. If you come round to my way of thinking in situation B (argos), then by extension you should do so for the lax situation too, no?

Hitcho
02-20-2009, 04:46 PM
I am not a fan of Lacrosse but people should be allowed to play the sport of their choice.

That being said...I am supremely concerned about the condition of the pitch with all this use.

Oh for sure, let people play whatever sports they like. Just let them play those sports somewhere else! :D

RealG-TFC
02-20-2009, 04:47 PM
They should play at Lamport!

Cashcleaner
02-20-2009, 04:54 PM
^ Wouldn't surprise me at all if they did end up there.

Inklink
02-20-2009, 07:38 PM
We should all buy seasons tickets to the "Nationals" and sing and chant like it's a TFC game. That'd be awesome ;) LOL

Seriously though, the picture in drewski's post: what stadium is that? And why did 25000 people show up to watch lacrosse?

akoto
02-20-2009, 08:04 PM
As a Beacher I grew up playing lacrosse (as a lot of us did) and love the sport but I'm not too sure how I feel about this. Box lacrosse is much more popular here and I think this could end up being a big mistake. I do like the fact that it gives a lot of local guys a chance to stay at home to play instead of going south but I think BMO is too big a venue. Varsity, Lamport or Centennial would be better sized locations IMO. Plus I hate the idea of any non footy lines on the "pitch". If they (BMO Field Staff) find a way to ensure no lines are visable during TFC matches then I'm all for it, but if there are lines I will be making a very angry phone call to TFC FO.

deltox
02-20-2009, 10:35 PM
FOR THE 2009 SEASON THE NATIONALS WILL BE OPENING THE WEST SIDE OF BMO FIELD.

http://www.torontorock.com/uploads/assets/TORONTO/Toronto_Nationals/2009-MLL-PPM-OLA-PRESSKIT-copy.jpg



http://www.torontorock.com/uploads/assets/TORONTO/Toronto_Nationals/2009-MLL-PPM-OLA-PRESSKIT-copy.jpg

loconet
02-20-2009, 11:46 PM
http://www.racing-forums.com/vb/images/othersmilies/puke.gif

That's a bad photoshop of the usual BMO pricing chart.

rocker
02-20-2009, 11:46 PM
so they`re expecting about 5000 fans a game max.

egoodwin
02-20-2009, 11:53 PM
thank god, they won't be in any of our supporter sections

andyc
02-21-2009, 12:02 AM
But take a look at the price... $90 for 6 games in the cheap seats.... For a semi-pro game... Hmmmm...

Dirk Diggler
02-21-2009, 12:03 AM
Does anyone know what kind of attendance figures MLL teams generate in the States?

TFC 420
02-21-2009, 12:04 AM
FOR THE 2009 SEASON THE NATIONALS WILL BE OPENING THE WEST SIDE OF BMO FIELD.

http://www.torontorock.com/uploads/assets/TORONTO/Toronto_Nationals/2009-MLL-PPM-OLA-PRESSKIT-copy.jpg



http://www.torontorock.com/uploads/assets/TORONTO/Toronto_Nationals/2009-MLL-PPM-OLA-PRESSKIT-copy.jpg
Notice that they didn't put the lines on the pitch.

rocker
02-21-2009, 12:07 AM
Does anyone know what kind of attendance figures MLL teams generate in the States?

i looked around and it seems attendances range from 2000 to 10000. Denver attracts the high number. they got 20000 for a single game recently.

Blizzard
02-21-2009, 12:14 AM
Notice that they didn't put the lines on the pitch.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_lF1zXhUGEho/Rw3lMI5PUwI/AAAAAAAAAcg/Okah_on2I_M/DSC00236.JPG

egoodwin
02-21-2009, 12:14 AM
obviously none of these games will be televised... horrible optics to have every spectator on the same side as the camera

Dirk Diggler
02-21-2009, 12:30 AM
i looked around and it seems attendances range from 2000 to 10000. Denver attracts the high number. they got 20000 for a single game recently.

Oh wow ... that is quite impressive.

BTW, with the addition of the Nationals, we now have 10.5 professional/semi-pro sports clubs in the city of Toronto. That is quite impressive as well :D

Keystone FC
02-21-2009, 05:17 AM
obviously none of these games will be televised... horrible optics to have every spectator on the same side as the camera

Unless they want the big leaf to be shown on tv with the skyline in the background.

Keystone FC
02-21-2009, 05:22 AM
Not sure if they got permission but there is already a Toronto Nationals in existance:
http://www.torontonationals.ca/

MFBODD
02-21-2009, 02:53 PM
If they use temporary/removable markings I have no problem with LAX at BMO. Numerous amature leagues play at BMO all year long and the surface is artificial, so I don't see any reason to be concerned about the quality of the pitch being altered.

As previously mentioned, box lax is the more popular version of the sport in this area, so I don't know if the Nat's will stick around that long. Also, the OLA runs a parallel season and the quality of play in that league is the same as the NLL (Toronto Rock) as many of the NLL players also play OLA Major
LAX.

nick.mastro
02-21-2009, 04:10 PM
They should play at Lamport!


yah ! i dont understand why dont they just play at Lamport!? perfectly good stadium, put it to use!

and if theres lines, i will be fucking pissed

drewski
02-21-2009, 04:12 PM
my guess is appearence.

BMO is seen as a pro-level stadium that everybody knows. Lamport on the other hand, isn't, and not everybody even knows about it

drewski
02-21-2009, 08:14 PM
according to the ad they gave out at the game, season's ticket are 25% off the single game price and you get 2 additional tickets to any regular season game which is a good way to help spread the game

Four 4 Two
02-23-2009, 10:12 AM
http://www.torontorock.com/uploads/assets/TORONTO/Toronto_Nationals/2009-MLL-PPM-OLA-PRESSKIT-copy.jpg


Notice that they didn't put the lines on the pitch.

Yeah.....but it'll be tough to get that Nationals logo off the pitch in 24 hrs!!

romburgundy
02-24-2009, 10:26 PM
For those of us who don't know much about lecross we are about to get a costly lesson. Some say the team will fold others say the league will fold. I say this team is going to thrive with 16000 season tickets sold in 2010 when they force TFC STH to buy MLL tickets as part of the package. Just wait and see. After all look at how many people buy marlies tix just to get 1/2 a season of fottie.

drewski
02-24-2009, 10:33 PM
the big difference there is that MLSE owns TFC and the marlies. They don't own the Nats

Four 4 Two
02-24-2009, 10:37 PM
For those of us who don't know much about lecross we are about to get a costly lesson. Some say the team will fold others say the league will fold. I say this team is going to thrive with 16000 season tickets sold in 2010 when they force TFC STH to buy MLL tickets as part of the package. Just wait and see. After all look at how many people buy marlies tix just to get 1/2 a season of fottie.


That would certainly lick ass. I would pay for em because i'd have to but they would end up as toilet paper in my house! I think they may use them as bait as they do the Marlies tickets now for people looking for a half season or "themed season" package, but i don't think they will ever make season ticket holders buy another sports tickets in order to keep our TFC seats. That would start a whole new chant thread for chants against TFC HO.

AL-MO
02-24-2009, 10:44 PM
I'm 100% with Forts on this one.

I would love to see BMO Field as 100% TFC property, it's important to football fans and it's a big part of what gives "home" advantage. It's not just that you have your fans behind you, it's that the place is your fortress, your temple, your own backyard where no-one can bully you. If it's actually used by other teams and has other sports lines painted on it, then you lose a big part of the mental edge of being at "home".

Besides which, as I posted above, TFC is primary tenant and it's the NATIONAL soccer stadium. Which makes this whole idea stick in the throat somewhat, regardless of any impact or not.

I know the place is partly owned by the city, but as I understand it the deal was "ok, you guys get the stadium as your home but you have to let us host community soccer events in there too as part of the deal". For obvious reasons no-one really minds that deal too much. But now it's being changed, so I think everyone who has a stake in the club (and SSH, part SSH, regular attendees and anyone who invests time and money in jerseys etc are all stakeholders in my book) has a right to be a bit put out by this turn of events.

THIS IS OUR HOUSE!!!!!!!!!

We would all like to see that, but since MLSE decided to take the public coin, and allow them to pay for most of the stadium, this is what you have to deal with.

And it IS owned by the City. (not 'partly')

Four 4 Two
02-24-2009, 11:02 PM
Feck Off MLL!! BMO Field as the "National Stadium" didn't mean "The National's" stadium!! It is a soccer specific venu.

I said FECK OFF!!!!

nfitz
02-24-2009, 11:42 PM
the big difference there is that MLSE owns TFC and the marlies. They don't own the Nats ... yet ...

Mind you, I'd probably prefer watching lacrosse ... though my wife might kill me ...

Cashcleaner
02-25-2009, 03:07 AM
We would all like to see that, but since MLSE decided to take the public coin, and allow them to pay for most of the stadium, this is what you have to deal with.

And it IS owned by the City. (not 'partly')

You speak the truth, but nobody wants to listen. MLSE/TFC could have easily took the risk and fronted the cash themselves for a new stadium, but they didn't and now we're left in this situation. You can't possibly blame anyone else but the club and its parent organisation for this development.

BoltonTFC
02-25-2009, 03:57 PM
They can piss off and play in a more suitable stadium. Varsity, anywhere but BMO.

They are totally trying to fly under the radar with this one. What's the point? An unsuccessful team/sport moving somewhere most don't want it. I'm sick of this attitude of "You need better attendance? Go to BMO. They're doing fine!"

What I am sick of is the "Nobody can ever step foot into BMO Field except TFC" crap. Toronto FC does not own the stadium and if another team wants to move in and make use of the facility then good on them. Nobody wants to see football style lines on the pitch but in this case it looks like that wouldn't happen anyway so where is the problem is a lacrosse team wants to use BMO for 6, 7, 8 dates a summer? This arrogance and sense of entitlement by some TFC fans is bordering on ridiculous.