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View Full Version : Ottawa Split On MLS, CFL; Majority Want Landsdowne Revitalized



Redcoe15
02-14-2009, 12:43 PM
Today's edition of the Ottawa Citizen paints a more accurate description of what the people of Ottawa want in regards to either MLS or CFL, and what they want in a stadium.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Sports/Majority+wants+city+revitalize+Lansdowne/1288533/story.html

IMO, this won't make Eugene Melnyk happy.

Super Cereal
02-14-2009, 12:49 PM
A poll of 871 people doesn't change anything, unless you're (for whatever reason) opposed to an Ottawa MLS franchise like yourself.

This won't have any effect on Melnyk, you'd have to be incredibly naive to think that.

mighty_torontofc_2008
02-14-2009, 12:53 PM
Melnyk wont be bothered....Kanata while not the ideal place is better then sharing a stadium in Lansdown Park with a pathetic CFL team.
Ottawa had the smarts to dump on the CFL twice, may this time be the same

Kooper
02-14-2009, 12:54 PM
I can't see why Melnyk can't play nice with the city and develop the stadium downtown at share the cost with all levels of government and the Lansdown Live group.

mighty_torontofc_2008
02-14-2009, 12:58 PM
I can't see why Melnyk can't play nice with the city and develop the stadium downtown at share the cost with all levels of government and the Lansdown Live group.


why should he?? No MLS team should never share a park with a lower life form league like the CFL...end of..

Canary Canuck
02-14-2009, 12:59 PM
I can't see why Melnyk can't play nice with the city and develop the stadium downtown at share the cost with all levels of government and the Lansdown Live group.


Cuz Garber won't give him a team to play in a stadium with a field the length of an airport runway!

mighty_torontofc_2008
02-14-2009, 01:03 PM
Cuz Garber won't give him a team to play in a stadium with a field the length of an airport runway!

they got to have big endzones in Canada, the cfl players don't have the skill to catch the ball in smaller area like thier NFL counterparts. There might not be roo much in Kanata right now but should be developed
on a bigger area with 20 years.

Danbwoy
02-14-2009, 01:06 PM
Revitalizing Lansdowne should be Ottawa City Council's No. 1 priority - you would need to have lived in Ottawa to understand that. Building a soccer stadium in a cornfield does nothing for the City of Ottawa. Everyone cites the amount of kids that are registered in soccer in Ottawa, well, kids don't buy tickets, and kids can't get out to the stadium without PARENTS. Their parents are more likely football fans than soccer fans and would more likely want to attend games in the downtown core with great transit feeding the area than driving the fuck out to Kanata with basically no decent transit options except one shitty bus that is always full.

City Council should back the Greenberg/Shenkman/Hunt proposal, and then, hopefully, Melnyk could agree to share the stadium, if, the slim chance of Ottawa getting an MLS franchise comes true.

S_D
02-14-2009, 01:32 PM
I agree that Landsdown needs to be their priority. It is the armpit of Ottawa proper.

A news stadium being built can't be justified by a CFL franchise alone. 10-12 dates just won't justify the expense. Not sure if the semi pro-team sooners are there as well but they were hardly a draw when I was living there.

The best idea is for them to get together and develop a stadium that can serve both their needs. Turf will probably have to be used, but with the right planning such as moveable seats at the end zones, and proper housing development (which would become extremely valuable if along the canal) it can be a success.

jloome
02-14-2009, 01:39 PM
I would take any poll commissioned by one of the two parties -- this was commissioned by the CFL group, not the OTtawa citizen -- with a huge grain of salt.

As for the Lansdowne property, there are many, many more profitable uses for such a prime piece of real estate than turning it into a stadium for a sport that has failed repeatedly in Ottawa and would just fail again.

Given that my family lives in Nepean and Gloucester respectively, I would agree, however, that sticking it out in the boonies will hurt the draw, unless there is some massive change in local transit availability.

The question is how much the local people want top-level football. I think TFC's location was very important. But I still think you'd have sell-outs, or close to them, if you stuck it further out. There's just a different mentality towards top-level footie in this country than people realize; it ain't just about location.

Beach_Red
02-14-2009, 01:46 PM
I'm just going to quote what I quoted in the news thread again:

"If I was willing to make my bet - and I'm making a $50-million bet myself personally on this - what will be around 25 years from now?" Melnyk was quoted as saying in an Ottawa newspaper. "Will it be soccer or will it be CFL football? I'll lay my money on soccer."

"Beckham will be remembered for the thrilling, late August game against New York Red Bulls that drew nearly 70,000 people to Giants stadium. Even before the final whistle, the game felt more symbolic than surreal. MLS is followed by the shadow named potential, and that night, we all saw the leauge's not-so-distant future."

Pretty much says it all.

Danbwoy
02-14-2009, 01:49 PM
The previous Ottawa franchises failed because of Gliebermann, period. The guy is a fucking moron and ran both teams into the ground... I can't believe that he was at all involved in the Renegades after what he did with the Rough Riders. But Jeff Hunt has a proven track record of running a local team (the 67's) and the location is ideal. Lansdowne could still be used for the fair (forget what it's called) and the farmer's market, as well as a mall, soccer fields for kids, and an indoor aquarium. Once again, visit www.lansdownelive.ca and you'll see that the proposal has much more to it than just football. And I must reiterate, I think you need to have lived in Ottawa to understand what Lansdowne means to the city and how important it is to have it as an integral part of downtown living.

Cashcleaner
02-14-2009, 01:55 PM
^ Agreed. Landsdowne is the best location for either teams.

Red Baron
02-14-2009, 02:05 PM
I'd prefer to see an MLS team play at Landsdowne as well. Just don't want them playing on turf or gridiron lines.

Cashcleaner
02-14-2009, 02:09 PM
^ Okay, but what is the best option? Playing in a stadium where you may have to groundshare but located in the heart of the city, or playing in a stadium specifically for your sport but over 20 km outside of the city centre?

Danbwoy
02-14-2009, 02:15 PM
^ Okay, but what is the best option? Playing in a stadium where you may have to groundshare but located in the heart of the city, or playing in a stadium specifically for your sport but over 20 km outside of the city centre?

Yea, another important point to keep in mind is that the Senators in Kanata works because people will travel any distance to watch hockey. It's the national obsession. You can't use the Sens as an example of sports working in the rural area because hockey is in another stratosphere when it comes to Canadian audiences.

Mark in Ottawa
02-14-2009, 02:26 PM
I can't see why Melnyk can't play nice with the city and develop the stadium downtown at share the cost with all levels of government and the Lansdown Live group.

Because Melnyk's business plan calls for him to build, own and manage the stadium with some financial assistance from the City, Province and Feds to get it built. The levels of government would get money back in the form of taxes (Property, Entertainment/Ticket and Income tax from those employed).

He does not want the facility to be in any way controlled by the city or any other entity.

He already has the one facility in Kanata (ScotiaBank Place) and building next to it leverages the existing parking facilities as well as the existing and planned transportation infrastructure improvements. He could continue to use much of the same staff working at ScotiaBank in the new facility.

Super Cereal
02-14-2009, 02:28 PM
Soccer in Landsdowne is pointless. Hasn't Garber already said that any expansion needs a SSS? I believe he has, and he also clearly favours the American bids, so for Ottawa to have any chance it would have to be SSS.

On a Toronto FC forum, I would think most would want an Ottawa team. Another rival, easy road trip, Canadian Championship contender.

Redcoe15
02-14-2009, 02:35 PM
A poll of 871 people doesn't change anything, unless you're (for whatever reason) opposed to an Ottawa MLS franchise like yourself.
I don't care either way if Ottawa lands a CFL team or an MLS team. But a poll conducted by a reserch firm, like EKOS, would seem to carry more validity than some internet poll that can be easily manipulated.


This won't have any effect on Melnyk, you'd have to be incredibly naive to think that.
And you'd be wishful thinking with that opinion. Melnyk wants a soccer specific stadium with no CFL team to share it with. The public in Ottawa wants a stadium with both football and soccer in mind. Melnyk wants to build it out in Kanata. The public wants it in downtown Ottawa. Unless Melnyk, and MLS, decide to be more flexible, they're not going to get anywheres with the taxpayers. That's how I see it.

mighty_torontofc_2008
02-14-2009, 04:13 PM
^ Okay, but what is the best option? Playing in a stadium where you may have to groundshare but located in the heart of the city, or playing in a stadium specifically for your sport but over 20 km outside of the city centre?


the latter, 20 km outside of the city is nothing, im 80km outside of Toronto and make TFC games Ok....

mighty_torontofc_2008
02-14-2009, 04:15 PM
I don't care either way if Ottawa lands a CFL team or an MLS team. But a poll conducted by a reserch firm, like EKOS, would seem to carry more validity than some internet poll that can be easily manipulated.


And you'd be wishful thinking with that opinion. Melnyk wants a soccer specific stadium with no CFL team to share it with. The public in Ottawa wants a stadium with both football and soccer in mind. Melnyk wants to build it out in Kanata. The public wants it in downtown Ottawa. Unless Melnyk, and MLS, decide to be more flexible, they're not going to get anywheres with the taxpayers. That's how I see it.


then the CFL in ottawa wount happen either as it is doomed to fail.
why go to a cfl game when there is quality NCAA/ NFL games on the tube? Melynk should just tell the CFL to go F**K them selves.

rocker
02-14-2009, 04:23 PM
I'm not sure MLS would want Ottawa if Melnyk's team is a tenant in the CFL stadium. They want the MLS team to control most, if not all, of the revenue streams. If Melnyk is a tenant, then it's no diff financially than DC United at RFK, which they don't own.

If Melnyk is an equal partner, it's still not great because the other group will be taking revenue from the CFL, concerts, etc.

The only way I see it going to Lansdowne is if Melnyk buys out the CFL rights and ends up owning both teams. Then he goes in with the city for Landsdowne.

Mark in Ottawa
02-14-2009, 04:27 PM
Soccer in Landsdowne is pointless. Hasn't Garber already said that any expansion needs a SSS?
Preferable but not required... See Seattle.

Mark in Ottawa
02-14-2009, 04:30 PM
the latter, 20 km outside of the city is nothing, im 80km outside of Toronto and make TFC games Ok....
You live in Toronto with a proper public transit system.
The situations are not comparable. Getting to the Kanata stadium could be problematic for many as they would be basically forced to drive on a road system that currently is a pain but is undergoin upgrading.

arbogast
02-14-2009, 04:39 PM
Preferable but not required... See Seattle.

Yeah but he's said that for MLS to move back in to Canada, the conditions have to be 'perfect', i.e no ground sharing and an sss is required. he'll only make concessions to bring in important US markets, like he did in Seatlle.

Broadview
02-14-2009, 07:27 PM
Yea, another important point to keep in mind is that the Senators in Kanata works because people will travel any distance to watch hockey. It's the national obsession. You can't use the Sens as an example of sports working in the rural area because hockey is in another stratosphere when it comes to Canadian audiences.

Hockey's not even a slam dunk though, just ask the good folks in Quebec City and Winnipeg. The Senators were on a similar brink back in 2000, remember this?:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2000/01/18/hockey000118.html

And now they stink again just like they did back then.

A stadium at Landsdown makes the most sense for CFL and/or MLS, building in Kanata's a waste of good farmland.

Broadview
02-14-2009, 07:27 PM
Preferable but not required... See Seattle.

Miami too.

mighty_torontofc_2008
02-14-2009, 07:32 PM
You live in Toronto with a proper public transit system.
The situations are not comparable. Getting to the Kanata stadium could be problematic for many as they would be basically forced to drive on a road system that currently is a pain but is undergoin upgrading.


No i live in Brantford and hr west of Toronto....even then i have to ride the greyhound to hamilton then the go train to BMO...not exactly a easy
trip but do able.

Redcoe15
02-14-2009, 08:38 PM
then the CFL in ottawa wount happen either as it is doomed to fail.
why go to a cfl game when there is quality NCAA/ NFL games on the tube? Melynk should just tell the CFL to go F**K them selves.
If Melnyk were to build his Kanata stadium with his own money, he could do that. But he is not in any position to dictate the terms, if he needs taxpayer's funds to finance his stadium.

And you're obviously biased towards Melnyk. Like it or not, there would be just as many people who would not want MLS in Ottawa because they detest soccer, the way Bobo McClown does. And there are media types in Ottawa like Dave Naylor and Chris Stevenson with enough pull who are sympathetic to the CFL that they would want a team to return. That's why I see a compromise solution to the Ottawa stadium question.

Blazer
02-14-2009, 08:43 PM
Yea, another important point to keep in mind is that the Senators in Kanata works because people will travel any distance to watch hockey. It's the national obsession. You can't use the Sens as an example of sports working in the rural area because hockey is in another stratosphere when it comes to Canadian audiences.

Kanata works but it's far from ideal. If Ottawa could have it back they would have located the building closer to the downtown I am sure of it.

If Ottawa strings together a few winless seasons, trust me…they’ll stop making the trip to Kanata. We’re not a massive city and with one large demographic of our fan base (men aged 25-40) being hockey fans first before they’re Sens fans, we play hockey more than we care to watch it. Two buddies and a brother in law who hold season tickets will not renew if the team cannot sustain their winning ways – why would they?! This city needs winning and deep playoff success sooner than later in order to establish a true allegiance where we can sustain loosing seasons because our longstanding love and passion is stronger than our patience. We’ve only had one of those things. This city just isn’t your typical Canadian metropolis.

Blazer
02-14-2009, 08:48 PM
If Melnyk were to build his Kanata stadium with his own money, he could do that. But he is not in any position to dictate the terms, if he needs taxpayer's funds to finance his stadium.

And you're obviously biased towards Melnyk. Like it or not, there would be just as many people who would not want MLS in Ottawa because they detest soccer, the way Bobo McClown does. And there are media types in Ottawa like Dave Naylor and Chris Stevenson with enough pull who are sympathetic to the CFL that they would want a team to return. That's why I see a compromise solution to the Ottawa stadium question.

You’re right. There wouldn’t be an overwhelming vote of confidence from taxpayers in Ottawa because there’s not an overwhelming soccer fan base there either. It’s really not a sports town.

twistedchinaman
02-14-2009, 08:59 PM
If Melnyk were to build his Kanata stadium with his own money, he could do that. But he is not in any position to dictate the terms, if he needs taxpayer's funds to finance his stadium.

And you're obviously biased towards Melnyk. Like it or not, there would be just as many people who would not want MLS in Ottawa because they detest soccer, the way Bobo McClown does. And there are media types in Ottawa like Dave Naylor and Chris Stevenson with enough pull who are sympathetic to the CFL that they would want a team to return. That's why I see a compromise solution to the Ottawa stadium question.


Landsdowne, from what we know and has been expressed in numerous posts already, holds a special place in the heart of Ottawa's residents. And for a city like Ottawa to have both a CFL team and an MLS team together...no matter how much weed Melnyk wants to put into his pipe, CFL in Landsdowne vs. MLS at Kanata - it's not even a match.

No matter how much Garber wants to put the crack in his water, he already made the mistake of giving Seattle an out in the SSS requirement. Now every other city could, with enough money to pony up, can ask for this. Maybe Ottawa might not have the levity to ask for something like that, but why is Vancouver such a front runner even though their stadium plans is in a shambles?

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we therefore argue that when it comes to this issue, it is truly, truly, all about the Benjamins.

(Wait, did any of that make sense?)

Blazer
02-14-2009, 09:14 PM
^ Just that last line. :lol:

twistedchinaman
02-14-2009, 09:18 PM
^ Just that last line. :lol:


http://dailyconnect.in/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/jamster-simpsons-homer.jpg


Either way, Kanata bad. Landsdowne good. Garber moron. All about Benjamins.

egoodwin
02-14-2009, 09:22 PM
maybe they should play at Lansdowne, so Ottawa can get 2 teams

afterall CFL will just fail there again, leaving the stadium for MLS

2 years or so of crap is worth a MLS team there

Blazer
02-14-2009, 10:13 PM
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. Ottawa didn’t fail the CFL, the CFL failed Ottawa. The CFL needs Ottawa the same way Ottawa needs the CFL.

Soccer on the other hand – long, long shot!

S_D
02-14-2009, 11:10 PM
Yeah but he's said that for MLS to move back in to Canada, the conditions have to be 'perfect', i.e no ground sharing and an sss is required. he'll only make concessions to bring in important US markets, like he did in Seatlle.

Seattle wasn't given an exception. What Garber is more concerned about is control of revenues. The guys who own Quest own the Sounders. So perhaps the team pays rent, but it pays rent to the same guys that own them so it all works out.

When it was estimated in Forbes that MLS teams were losing money, it was pointed out quite quickly that the ownership revenues such as fees from concerts and secondary tenants weren't counted as part of revenues, and in some cases there was a different business entity that owned the stadium, but was still owned by the same guys who owned the teams. So the team may be losing money on paper, but the ownership group wasn't.

The challenge that an Ottawa MLS bid faces is that if they play in Lansdown they don't get a big cut but if they play in their own stadium they do.

If Melnyk is serious, he has to find a way to pony up the cash and fund his own stadium so he doesn't have to rely on city council to fund part of the construction/land whatever it may be. Unfortunatley most of these guys want the cities to provide funding in some way as they like spreading the risk around.

greatwhitenorf
02-15-2009, 01:34 AM
Look, the city of Ottawa has had every chance handed to it in past years to make the location for it's pro sports teams work for the benefit of sports fans within Ottawa proper. Just east of Parliament, they've had vacant land on the LeBreton Flats sitting idle for decades. It was once supposed to be home to the Senators new arena. But they chose to let a laissez-faire, free enterprise policy dictate circumstances.

It was always a marvellous game day/night when the Sens played at the Civic, not unlike going to a soccer game in one of Britain's traditional inner-city stadiums.

I'd park up Bank St. a ways, toward the Glebe, and walk in, regardless of the cold, stopping near the arena for a pint and a bite at Irenes pub, or the deli across the street. Even then, with only a capacity of 10,000 or so, traffic was terrible getting in and out from the area immediately around Lansdowne, whether you parked on the grounds - costly - or parked on the nearby streets - jam packed and hostile from home owners.

Lansdowne is bottled in on two sides by the canal and the principal way in and out is Bank St. Going out the back of the parking lot onto Queen Elizabeth meant an endless wait in the parking lot. And it's QE Drive, not the QEW, and it still gets massively backed up after games.

Now let's take it forward to if/when a new stadium is built and 30-or-so thousand fans are trying to use the same site. The traffic is even worse. My father-in-law had Riders season tickets for decades and hated the place. Again, we'd end up walking well up Bank St. to the car. You'd have to budget for at least 40 minutes to get your vehicle onto the 417.

And it's not like the area has somehow improved over the years for this sort of congestion. The area is largely residential, upscale like Leaside is. Home owners in the area love the fact that big crowds are not piling in regularly anymore. Look it up. The 67s junior hockey team average between 6-7,000 fans per game most seasons.

Jeff Hunt is in this deal to protect his vested interest in the 67s and hopefully steer redevelopment of the site in a way that takes any financial burden off of his shoulders for arena improvements. And that building really needs it, sitting under the crumbling main Lansdowne grandstand.

Melnyk didn't build the Sens arena, but he he's got an excellent track record as an owner, having put the Sens back onto a profitable business footing and having helped stage a hugely successful world juniors. And he could buy and sell a dozen Jeff Hunts.

It's kind of amusing to hear Ottawans bark about travelling out to Kanata. A drive of about 21 kms from Bank and 417. You've got a very good chance of being at the same location after 40 minutes that traffic-jammed Lansdowne patrons have.

Travel the same distance from the ACC and your either just shy of 427 and Hurontario or at Kingston Rd. and Morningside, not ideal but not the end of the world either if that was the stadium location. Neither would severly dampen TFC's chances since there's plenty of vehicular access points or mass transit available. And this distance to Kanata is only going to become more manageable in future with improved highway and public transit.

Jeff Hunt's group is banking on unachievable sporting nostalgia for a return of the Russ Jackson era mixed with unrealistic expectations for an expansive redevelopment of a site that immediate neighbours won't be thrilled to see happen.

Melnyk has a stronger vision of what the future holds for sport in Canada and his proposal will also serve to make life more enjoyable for hockey fans in years ahead.

The city of Ottawa and the National Capital Comission, now letting housing and commercial developers nibble away at the available space on Lebreton Flats, barely have a clue what's in its citizens best interest.

Super Cereal
02-15-2009, 01:35 AM
And you'd be wishful thinking with that opinion.

I just mean Melnyk as a person. Guy's got an ego the size of his wallet, he's already shown he's willing to go up against billionaires, and city council.

And that's not necessarily a compliment.

Cashcleaner
02-16-2009, 03:15 AM
Yea, another important point to keep in mind is that the Senators in Kanata works because people will travel any distance to watch hockey. It's the national obsession. You can't use the Sens as an example of sports working in the rural area because hockey is in another stratosphere when it comes to Canadian audiences.

Thats so true. Really, when we talk about sports in Ottawa you really have to disregard the Sens and 67's. I think you can use other summer sports as a fair comparison, but hockey is the big man in town. And actually, now that I think of it...

2007 attendance records

Ottawa Teams......Avg per Game.......Actual for Year
67's (OHL)....................7,010..................28 ,041.......
Senators (NHL).............19,372................794,271... ...
.................................................. ........822,312 <----Total

Toronto Teams.....Avg per Game.......Actual for Year
Maple Leafs (NHL)......19,487....................798,981......
Marlies (AHL).............3,829.....................153,17 2......
.................................................. .........952,153 <----Total

Toronto wins when it comes to hockey attendance, though it's not a huge margin. Also, some of the higher attendance numbers for the Marlies can be attributed to the fact that the AHL season has 80 games in its schedule while the OHL has 68.

Lucky Strike
02-16-2009, 08:50 AM
Thats so true. Really, when we talk about sports in Ottawa you really have to disregard the Sens and 67's. I think you can use other summer sports as a fair comparison, but hockey is the big man in town. And actually, now that I think of it...

2007 attendance records

Ottawa Teams......Avg per Game.......Actual for Year
67's (OHL)....................7,010..................28 ,041.......
Senators (NHL).............19,372................794,271... ...
.................................................. ........822,312 <----Total

Toronto Teams.....Avg per Game.......Actual for Year
Maple Leafs (NHL)......19,487....................798,981......
Marlies (AHL).............3,829.....................153,17 2......
.................................................. .........952,153 <----Total

Toronto wins when it comes to hockey attendance, though it's not a huge margin. Also, some of the higher attendance numbers for the Marlies can be attributed to the fact that the AHL season has 80 games in its schedule while the OHL has 68.

Might there not be a problem with the 67s yearly attendance totals?

7010 per game for 34 home games (68-game schedule where a team always plays the same number of home and away games) is actually 238,340 people. Add that to the 794,271 for the Sens and you get 1,032,611 total.

Super Cereal
02-16-2009, 11:27 AM
Thats so true. Really, when we talk about sports in Ottawa you really have to disregard the Sens and 67's. I think you can use other summer sports as a fair comparison, but hockey is the big man in town. And actually, now that I think of it...

2007 attendance records

Ottawa Teams......Avg per Game.......Actual for Year
67's (OHL)....................7,010..................28 ,041.......
Senators (NHL).............19,372................794,271... ...
.................................................. ........822,312 <----Total

Toronto Teams.....Avg per Game.......Actual for Year
Maple Leafs (NHL)......19,487....................798,981......
Marlies (AHL).............3,829.....................153,17 2......
.................................................. .........952,153 <----Total

Toronto wins when it comes to hockey attendance, though it's not a huge margin. Also, some of the higher attendance numbers for the Marlies can be attributed to the fact that the AHL season has 80 games in its schedule while the OHL has 68.

Math isn't your strongest point.

P.S. The 67's play more than 4 home games. So really, Ottawa wins big. The only thing that should be disregarded is your post.

Yeoman
02-16-2009, 05:22 PM
great post norf
i wonder how many people on here have actually seen landsdowne?
first time i drove by it, i did a double take. i just couldn't believe how that worked at all in the location that it is.
in city? yes
has parking capabilities? ha

Mark in Ottawa
02-16-2009, 06:43 PM
has parking capabilities? ha
Obviously any upgrading of Landsdowne will require some thought regarding parking and transport access.

Parking garage... underground or multi level?
Bus or rapid transit down the driveways to park and ride lots?

In the old Ottawa Rough Rider days I remember the Rideau Centre actually ran a "water taxi" service to some games when the canal was open. A great idea but I think it ended up being too costly.

For the U-20 World Cup games we parked at Carleton U. and walked from Dows lake to the park. Others used Billings Bridge plaza where Bank St crosses the Rideau River to either park or catch the transit way. These are good options when the weather is nice.

JamboAl
02-16-2009, 11:41 PM
I think that Lansdowne would require some parking improvements but you can't build a huge lot there cause Bank Street, which is can be very slow at times with the one lane each way in the Glebe, would be impassable. I wound up walking to the U-20 games from/to home cause by the time I drove there and parked, i would have saved myself 5 mins max plus would have to pay $10 parking.

Shway
02-17-2009, 12:40 AM
^^^a whole 5 minutes!!!

ExiledRed
02-17-2009, 01:02 AM
Look at the landsdowne site on the map ffs.

I've never been there, but I can tell it's a traffic nightmare in the making.

Cashcleaner
02-17-2009, 01:18 AM
Might there not be a problem with the 67s yearly attendance totals?

7010 per game for 34 home games (68-game schedule where a team always plays the same number of home and away games) is actually 238,340 people. Add that to the 794,271 for the Sens and you get 1,032,611 total.

I'm just taking the info directly from the league records so don't blame me for any mistakes! :D

Yeoman
02-17-2009, 04:55 AM
is there really anywhere close to do that, that they don't have to buy out someone and demolish something?
mind you i'm not an ottawaer (just a weekend get drunker, or to attend arsenal ottawa match showings so far at one haha), so i haven't wander around the place that much. i'll admit that the place is perfect for mls, but the logistical side would make me want to eat the pen i'm trying to work the paperwork with.

greatwhitenorf
02-20-2009, 12:04 PM
Ottawa 67s owner Jeff Hunt is starting to chuck his toys out the pram as his frustration mounts with Ottawa city council, illustrated by recent suggestions that the future of his junior hockey team is in peril if the Lansdowne Live project isn't approved. He's actually suggested the very successful club may be in danger of leaving Ottawa without a deal from the city for a refurbished Civic Centre as part of the Lansdowne stadium deal.

What a load of tripe.

First off, where would he be moving his junior hockey team to? There is nowhere to go. Secondly, the football stadium could be dismantled and the arena left intact. That would probably save the city a bundle on building a new junior hockey arena. The 67s could play for part or all of a season in either Kanata or over in Gatineau while the work was being done.

This idea that Hunt's CFL group would be willing to share a new Lansdowne ground with MLS is also laughable. Past CFL teams in Ottawa drowned in red ink despite having the stadium all to themselves with no appreciable competition.

The presence of an MLS team would simply take away any margin of profitability. Even the threat of an MLS team at this point has put the entire CFL-Lansdowne deal in jeopardy. And if you were Eugene Melnyk, would you trust the Hunt group to give you a fair deal at Lansdowne with this kind of worry over their heads?

And that doesn't even take into account such practical considerations as how poorly soccer would be served putting a 110-yard pitch onto a 160-or-more yard CFL playing surface. Which would inevitably have to be plastic, another negative for soccer.

Hunt is watching with great envy as other junior hockey owners get sexy, new barns built for them across Ontario. All he's got is the largest rink in the league with 40 suites, 10,000+ seats and more advertising signage than anywhere else in the league. He hosted, and his 67s won, a very successful Memorial Cup. By OHL standards, he's made some very good money for himself in his decade of ownership. He's had a good run and enjoyed a good deal as a tenant in the Civic and, by most accounts, can easily handle sharing the costs of refurbishing the arena to keep the 67s playing there long into the future.

If a refurbishing of Lansdowne meant no stadium, but the arena stayed, and the area received some of the proposed improvements, like additional amateur sports facilities or playing fields, that would probably please most neighbouring residents. That would boost property values in their leafy, prosperous area. They're much more skeptical about the effect of a new stadium-retail-hotel complex.

And what if Melnyk chose to raise the heat on Hunt's group? What if he just said: "I'm building my own stadium in Kanata with my own money." Hunt's CFL team would be finished, his Lansdowne stadium project stuffed.

In case anyone thinks the simple solution would be for Melnyk to buy the 67s from Hunt and take on the Lansdowne project himself, he can't. He already owns the Mississauga St. Michael's Majors - he's a proud St. Mike's grad and stout benefactor - and has ambitious plans for bringing the Memorial Cup to the Hershey Centre.

It's quite the little soap opera and it's still got a ways to run. If you're a Toronto soccer fan, you have to like that, after an equally frustrating runaround, we got BMO Field. And who's squirming about that these days? Why none other than your local CFL team.

rocker
02-20-2009, 12:08 PM
why don't they just leave the arena and the one stand, and use it as a secondary field for sporting events? they could play college sports there.

ccopela
02-20-2009, 12:18 PM
why don't they just leave the arena and the one stand, and use it as a secondary field for sporting events? they could play college sports there.

The Ottawa GeeGees football team plays there but they're about the only team that would use it. Carleton is close by but they have a small stadium that works for them. (they don't have a football team).

Fort York Redcoat
02-20-2009, 12:21 PM
Lansdowne will be rebuilt eventually but it would be a shame to settle for groundsharing vs the vision for the sport Mellnyk wants to build.

If there's gridiron lines I'm not going.

greatwhitenorf
02-20-2009, 04:04 PM
Redcoat, saying Lansdowne will be rebuilt is quite a broad statement. If local residents have their way, there could be all kinds of public-access redevelopment, but the only crowd-drawing sports facility left standing will be the arena.

Jeff Hunt is thrashing madly around trying to get other people to spend money to preserve his cash cow hockey operation. And his comments that his CFL plans would accomodate soccer display a certain ignorance of why soccer is successful in Toronto.

Interesting to note that certain people don't get the difference when an American football team shares with a soccer team in an NFL stadium. Sure, if the lines are visible, that sucks. But an American football field is only 120 yards in total length. Canadian fields are 50 yards longer. You can at least preserve some intimacy for fans in a US stadium and, unlike what would happen in Ottawa, seats behind the goal aren't in another area code.

Here's the story on Hunt's latest comments.

http://www.ottawasun.com/News/OttawaAndRegion/2009/02/17/8413836-sun.html