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MG42
02-13-2009, 04:20 PM
from SBI



The long and torturous quest to land a soccer-specific stadium in the Washington D.C. area has hit a brick wall and has left D.C. United with no choice but to look elsewhere for a future home. As a result, D.C. United could soon become Maryland United. Not in name, but certainly in location.
The Washington Post reported today that D.C. United is committed to moving the club to Prince Georges County, Maryland (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/12/AR2009021203509.html) in order to help United land a 24,000 "Urban Soccer Stadium."
The declaration came just a day after MLS commissioner Don Garber had some stern words about the inability to land a stadium in the D.C. area. Garber stated rather emphatically that the process had "Gone on too long" and that the club needed to resolve its stadium issue soon.
It appears that resolution will take D.C. to Maryland, a move that might not go over well with all D.C. fans, and probably isn't going to make visiting fans very happy either.


READ MORE
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/02/ready-for-dc-united-to-leave-dc.html

AL-MO
02-13-2009, 04:24 PM
To bad they couldn't get anything done in DC.

Been there twice. Had a blast both times.

EdTheRed
02-13-2009, 05:11 PM
There's really nothing much to say that hasn't been said 1,000 times over in the comments sections of various blog posts and articles at the Washington Post's website, or over in the DC and MLS forums at B*gSawker, but I'll sum it up for you guys (executive summary? it's all Montreal's fault ;) ):

1) The team worked with the District for close to a decade to get something done.

2) Once they settled on the Poplar Point site, the team spent millions lobbying Congress to transfer the land to the District for a mixed-use development, anchored by a soccer stadium.

3) After the land transfer, the team worked out a deal with the District whereby the team's new owners, who are developers specializing in mixed-use urban infill projects, would pay for the stadium in exchange for the right to develop the rest of the property.

4) While this was happening, MLB decided to move the Expos, and in the process of "negotiating" with the District, decided to save money on Vaseline and just shove it to the District raw and hard. Voters were not amused. The Nationals didn't even bother paying rent their first year in the new stadium, claiming it wasn't usable, despite, well, using it. Voters were even less amused.

5) A new mayor took over and, along with the Council, took a "stand" against team owners looking for a "handout" and sank the Poplar Point deal, instead putting it out for competetive bidding.

6) The team owners decided not to bid on the project, but didn't rule out working with the District if the project included a stadium.

7) After a long bidding process, the winning bid included a soccer stadium.

8) Financial armageddon strikes.

9) The developer who submitted the winning bid pulls out of the project.

10) The team, at this point desperate for a new stadium in order to secure their long-term viability in the DC market, strikes a deal with PG County to work towards building a stadium as part of a mixed-use development near a Metro station. The likely sites are approximately seven miles away from RFK stadium.

11) The District is left with no development, no soccer team, and the upkeep costs for a big chunk of what used to be federal land. Yeah, that's my hometown for you. :rolleyes::o

12) Some United supporters from Virginia get their panties in a bunch because the new stadium will be sooooooooo much further away from them.

13) DC and MD residents mock said Virginia supporters, call them pussies, snobs, etc.

14) Most United supporters are saddened, but not surprised that the situation came to this, and just hope that the stadium does indeed end up near a Metro station, and that it doesn't look exactly like Toyota Park, or the Philly stadium, or Pizza Hut Park, or the Big Dick, or...you get the idea.

To sum up: MLB are a bunch of greedy bastards who ruined everything, people from VA and MD don't really like each other (to be fair, they *DID* fight a rather bloody war once), and most supporters are just looking for closure.

nfitz
02-13-2009, 05:44 PM
While unfortunate, the proposed location seems to be next to the Morgan Boulevard Metro Station, which is only 4 stops (about 12-minutes) further east on the Blue line from RFK Stadium (which itself is a 10-minute walk to the Stadium-Amory Metro Station). Might not be a big difference if it's really close to the Metro - and still very accessible to anyone within DC.

You have to give Mayor Miller credit for siezing the opportunity when it came Toronto's way, rather than the kind of BS that has gone on in Washington and Vancouver.

Hitcho
02-13-2009, 06:15 PM
Yeah I like our set up. Over time we can add in additional seats, making the stadium up to 25k or 30k, add a roof, put down grass and build a training facility somewhere close by (all of which will inevitably mean no pointy ball or other significant inhabitants to worry about). When you consider all of that in the location we've got, plus the absence of any kind of stadium debt for the club owing to the city's involvement, it's a pretty sweet deal.

rocker
02-13-2009, 06:42 PM
well after seeing that history posted above I can't fault DC for looking elsewhere. Who knows, maybe someday when the stadium is too small and United support is massive, DC will beg them to come back. Already there's talk of luring the NFL team back... that NFL stadium sits nearby where this MLS stadium would sit.
As long as its on public transit (and not too far from the downtown) I guess that's the best they can do, right? It would actually be one of the closest stadiums to downtown in the league.

But I hate bullshit like this... always a compromise it seems. Thank god TFC didn't have to compromise on location.

ginkster88
02-13-2009, 06:58 PM
I looooovvvveeeee BMO's location, would not change it for the world. Best location in the league, and we will see the best stadium in the league at the Ex within our lifetimes.

nfitz
02-13-2009, 07:34 PM
I looooovvvveeeee BMO's location, would not change it for the world. Best location in the league, and we will see the best stadium in the league at the Ex within our lifetimes.We might even see a subway station within walking distance in our lifetimes! But why am I complaining ... I'm walking distance to Danforth GO.

mighty_torontofc_2008
02-13-2009, 07:42 PM
I looooovvvveeeee BMO's location, would not change it for the world. Best location in the league, and we will see the best stadium in the league at the Ex within our lifetimes.


without doubt....when they first dicussed the York Location i thought it was something that was too fa out of the way for me to invest in seasons tickets. BMO is the perfect spot which is why other teams want in there.

James17930
02-13-2009, 08:19 PM
Prince George County? How urban is that?

rocker
02-13-2009, 08:24 PM
We might even see a subway station within walking distance in our lifetimes! But why am I complaining ... I'm walking distance to Danforth GO.

ya..can't wait for that downtown relief line... with the "BMO Field" stop ;)

olegunnar
02-13-2009, 08:47 PM
We might even see a subway station within walking distance in our lifetimes! But why am I complaining ... I'm walking distance to Danforth GO.

How is that? The Danforth GO that is. I just moved to within a 15 minute walk of the Danforth GO...but have never been on a GO train before.
I'm thinking the GO might be better than streetcars

Oblio2
02-13-2009, 09:48 PM
My in-laws live in Maryland...wicked

boban
02-13-2009, 10:11 PM
You have to give Mayor Miller credit for siezing the opportunity when it came Toronto's way, rather than the kind of BS that has gone on in Washington and Vancouver.
Seems liek you have a short memory.
Our stadium deal was dancing around for a couple of years.
Started at the CNE, moved to Varsity, then to York, then to Donsview and then finally settling back at the CNE when all the pieces fell into place.
Toronto had its share of BS.

Keystone FC
02-14-2009, 05:18 AM
I'm just glad that DCU is FINALLY getting a SSS. If there is one team that really deserves a stadium it's this club. Not sure of the location or what's around it but I'm sure the DCU supporters will make the trip to see their club.
The sad thing is...they are now in the same situation as the Red Bulls (who are shite). They'll play in a stadium that is not even in their own state/city/district that they represent.

twistedchinaman
02-14-2009, 06:14 AM
At least they've got one. But for the love of all things that are sacred and holy, do NOT build it away from heavy (or even light) rail transit.

The reason why I have so far had no desire to go to Pizza Hut Park is because of its wanton inaccessibility. Home Depot Centre was a nightmare, and...well, dare I go on?

koryo
02-14-2009, 06:48 AM
How is that? The Danforth GO that is. I just moved to within a 15 minute walk of the Danforth GO...but have never been on a GO train before.
I'm thinking the GO might be better than streetcars

There's a station at Danforth at Main.

EdTheRed
02-14-2009, 07:18 AM
Prince George County? How urban is that?

The parts of the county that border DC are pretty damn urban. Total county population is over 825,000. The potential stadium locations are in a pretty highly developed area. It's nothing like Frisco, TX, that's for sure. Then again, it's nothing like BMO, either. Ah well, I seem to recall something about beggars and choosers and such.

It's definitely not an ideal location, but it's not a bad second choice, as long as they stick close to Metro. In the meantime, we'll enjoy our last years at RFK, which, though a bit of a dump, is *our* dump, so we love it...and it's a centrally located dump to boot.

FluSH
02-14-2009, 08:14 AM
There's really nothing much to say that hasn't been said 1,000 times over in the comments sections of various blog posts and articles at the Washington Post's website, or over in the DC and MLS forums at B*gSawker, but I'll sum it up for you guys (executive summary? it's all Montreal's fault ;) ):

1) The team worked with the District for close to a decade to get something done.

2) Once they settled on the Poplar Point site, the team spent millions lobbying Congress to transfer the land to the District for a mixed-use development, anchored by a soccer stadium.

3) After the land transfer, the team worked out a deal with the District whereby the team's new owners, who are developers specializing in mixed-use urban infill projects, would pay for the stadium in exchange for the right to develop the rest of the property.

4) While this was happening, MLB decided to move the Expos, and in the process of "negotiating" with the District, decided to save money on Vaseline and just shove it to the District raw and hard. Voters were not amused. The Nationals didn't even bother paying rent their first year in the new stadium, claiming it wasn't usable, despite, well, using it. Voters were even less amused.

5) A new mayor took over and, along with the Council, took a "stand" against team owners looking for a "handout" and sank the Poplar Point deal, instead putting it out for competetive bidding.

6) The team owners decided not to bid on the project, but didn't rule out working with the District if the project included a stadium.

7) After a long bidding process, the winning bid included a soccer stadium.

8) Financial armageddon strikes.

9) The developer who submitted the winning bid pulls out of the project.

10) The team, at this point desperate for a new stadium in order to secure their long-term viability in the DC market, strikes a deal with PG County to work towards building a stadium as part of a mixed-use development near a Metro station. The likely sites are approximately seven miles away from RFK stadium.

11) The District is left with no development, no soccer team, and the upkeep costs for a big chunk of what used to be federal land. Yeah, that's my hometown for you. :rolleyes::o

12) Some United supporters from Virginia get their panties in a bunch because the new stadium will be sooooooooo much further away from them.

13) DC and MD residents mock said Virginia supporters, call them pussies, snobs, etc.

14) Most United supporters are saddened, but not surprised that the situation came to this, and just hope that the stadium does indeed end up near a Metro station, and that it doesn't look exactly like Toyota Park, or the Philly stadium, or Pizza Hut Park, or the Big Dick, or...you get the idea.

To sum up: MLB are a bunch of greedy bastards who ruined everything, people from VA and MD don't really like each other (to be fair, they *DID* fight a rather bloody war once), and most supporters are just looking for closure.

wow thanks for the summary... I gotta say I'm sad to see DCU move.

NF-FC
02-14-2009, 10:33 AM
It's too bad staying at RFK isn't viable. Even though the place is a dump, it's got a special aura about it.

Cashcleaner
02-14-2009, 10:53 AM
Can someone please give me a good reason as to why DCU has to move out of RFK Stadium? What exactly is wrong with the park as it is? If there is an issue with the current facilites there, surely it would make more sense to renovate or upgrade the original stadium. How is RFK not soccer-specific? The Nationals don't play there anymore. The Redskins don't play there anymore. The only other use I can think of is NCAA soccer or gridiron.

Gah! These stupid deals drive me up the wall. I dont see anything wrong with RFK stadium as it is. Why go to the trouble and expense of building a new structure so far away from your primary fanbase when you have a perfectly good stadium right now.

rocker
02-14-2009, 11:12 AM
DC United doesn't own RFK.. so they don't get the revenues they could get from an SSS they owned.
Garber is probably pissed cuz here's a team with great attendance but surely they aren't contributing as much $$$ to the league as they could because they don't control the revenue streams of RFK.

Cashcleaner
02-14-2009, 11:17 AM
^ I said give me a good reason. :D

rocker
02-14-2009, 11:21 AM
we need to get these freeloaders into SSS so TFC doesn't have to subsidize them ;)

Bloor West FC
02-14-2009, 02:57 PM
^ I said give me a good reason. :D


Security had warned us last year not to jump as the Deck we were in could collapse. That's good enough for me!

See YA RFK!

James17930
02-14-2009, 10:16 PM
The parts of the county that border DC are pretty damn urban. Total county population is over 825,000. The potential stadium locations are in a pretty highly developed area. It's nothing like Frisco, TX, that's for sure. Then again, it's nothing like BMO, either. Ah well, I seem to recall something about beggars and choosers and such.

It's definitely not an ideal location, but it's not a bad second choice, as long as they stick close to Metro. In the meantime, we'll enjoy our last years at RFK, which, though a bit of a dump, is *our* dump, so we love it...and it's a centrally located dump to boot.

Sounds all right then. I agree -- if it's on a mass transit line, that's a huge plus.

Keystone FC
02-15-2009, 02:48 AM
Security had warned us last year not to jump as the Deck we were in could collapse. That's good enough for me!

See YA RFK!


That's what I heard from a few DCU supporters at last years draft. The structure itself is in ruins and to even try to revitalize RFK is structurally impossible. It's just too far gone to try and revamp it. The thing to do is to have RFK torn down and build a new stadium on the old site. Meanwhile DCU could play at the Ravens stadium in Baltimore:
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/north_america/united_states/maryland/baltimore_mt_bank1.jpg

Or
The Redskins Stadium in Landover, MD:
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/north_america/united_states/maryland/landover_fedex1.jpg

or Navys' stadium in Annapolis, MD:
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/north_america/united_states/maryland/annapolis_memorial.jpg

Batman
02-15-2009, 08:03 AM
That Navy Stadium is great. That would do just fine. Annapolis is a cool place to visit too. I wonder why this wasn't an option.

Cashcleaner
02-15-2009, 04:34 PM
Security had warned us last year not to jump as the deck we were in could collapse. That's good enough for me!

See YA RFK!

YIKES! DCU, get the fuck outta that death trap!


That Navy Stadium is great. That would do just fine. Annapolis is a cool place to visit too. I wonder why this wasn't an option.

The Howard Bisons play at William Greene Stadium and that's located pretty close to the heart of Washington. Sure, it only seats 10,000, but there is plenty of room to build around it. Playing at Annapolis would be cool, but I'm wondering how accessible it would be.

stugautz
02-15-2009, 04:48 PM
FedEx field might be a bit large for DCU...I think it seats something like 92,000.

twistedchinaman
02-15-2009, 04:48 PM
Playing at Annapolis would be cool, but I'm wondering how accessible it would be.

There is no train to Annapolis, only buses and cars. It's a 30 mile drive from RFK into Navy Stadium...see this map (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=2400+East+Capitol+St+SE,+Washington,+DC+2000 3+%28RFK+Stadium%29&daddr=550+Taylor+Ave,+Annapolis,+MD+21401+%28Navy+ Marine+Corps+Memorial+Stadium%29&hl=en&geocode=FcdkUQIdKYVp-yEAIT61GXcEuQ%3BCWEt6M37VkAHFcncUgIdhqFw-yHjky2pdeffhg&mra=pe&mrcr=0&sll=38.980179,-76.506332&sspn=0.00809,0.015814&ie=UTF8&ll=38.948195,-76.585007&spn=0.258996,0.506058&t=h&z=11).

Cashcleaner
02-15-2009, 05:12 PM
^ That's shitty. Nice stadium, but much too far from downtown DC.

rocker
02-15-2009, 06:05 PM
DC's Maryland SSS would be built right nearby that huge Redskins NFL stadium.

ExiledRed
02-16-2009, 12:22 AM
Thank god TFC didn't have to compromise on location.

No it seems they just had to make huge compromises on how the stadium would be used, who would use it, what playing surface it would have.....

Cashcleaner
02-16-2009, 03:18 AM
^ Unfortunately, so very very true.

If MLSE did the right thing from the start and took the risk on buying the land and owning BMO Field outright instead of doing what they usually do (ie: sucker a municipal government into making the investment for them); we would be using the grounds specifically for soccer with no fear of an outside tenant coming in to complicate matters, and we'd most likely have grass installed instead of turf.

The more people are involved from the start of any one of these sorts of projects, the more control is lost from the initial parties involved.

rocker
02-16-2009, 09:01 AM
No it seems they just had to make huge compromises on how the stadium would be used, who would use it, what playing surface it would have.....

what compromises were made on how the stadium would be used and who would used it?

anyhow, the topic we are discussing is location and TFC made no compromise in that regard, unlike just about every other MLS team, sadly. I certainly wouldn't choose FC Dallas' route, even if they do have a grass field.

Beach_Red
02-16-2009, 10:15 AM
The more people are involved from the start of any one of these sorts of projects, the more control is lost from the initial parties involved.

So, why were so many involved from the beginning? That's pretty much the problem right there. This wasn't a project driven by anyone's desire for an MLS franchise - TFC is almost a side effect of this process.

So, "compromise" isn't really the right word because that would mean that there was someone involved who wanted more and settled for less.

Instead of thinking of it as a compromise stadium, think of it as a starting point - and now that the market has proven it exists, it can be built on.

nfitz
02-16-2009, 11:23 AM
No it seems they just had to make huge compromises on how the stadium would be used, who would use it, what playing surface it would have.....All of which can be fixed ... but had we built a stadium in Brampton, or Pickering, it would be tough to move it.

rocker
02-16-2009, 12:22 PM
i just watched the DC press conference. The leadership said there's no going back to DC proper. They are definitely going to build a stadium in Prince George's County, Maryland.. they have a few sites in mind close to the public transit.

no new tax dollars will be proposed to raise money for the stadium. Instead, any tax money generated through the project will go for pay for the stadium. I think I heard that the rest will be paid by DC paying rent for the stadium itself -- that will go towards the cost.

One county official said he was happy to have brought DC through the "quicksand" of DC. He also jokingly asked if they will rename it Prince Georges United.

given the circumstances, this is probably for the best. in 10-15 years they can always move back to DC when DC politicians are kissing their asses to get soccer back. It looks like these county officials are drooling to get another pro team nearby their NFL stadium, and aren't going to put up roadblocks like the DC officials. there's no bias against soccer there because it looks like this will help their county gain prestige.

Cashcleaner
02-16-2009, 01:21 PM
So, why were so many involved from the beginning? That's pretty much the problem right there. This wasn't a project driven by anyone's desire for an MLS franchise - TFC is almost a side effect of this process.

So, "compromise" isn't really the right word because that would mean that there was someone involved who wanted more and settled for less.

Instead of thinking of it as a compromise stadium, think of it as a starting point - and now that the market has proven it exists, it can be built on.

So you're saying the U-20 was what drove the building of the stadium? For sure it had a lot to do with it as well, but I don't think TFC was any like a side effect of the process.

LucaGol
02-16-2009, 01:24 PM
i just watched the DC press conference. The leadership said there's no going back to DC proper. They are definitely going to build a stadium in Prince George's County, Maryland.. they have a few sites in mind close to the public transit.

no new tax dollars will be proposed to raise money for the stadium. Instead, any tax money generated through the project will go for pay for the stadium. I think I heard that the rest will be paid by DC paying rent for the stadium itself -- that will go towards the cost.

One county official said he was happy to have brought DC through the "quicksand" of DC. He also jokingly asked if they will rename it Prince Georges United.

given the circumstances, this is probably for the best. in 10-15 years they can always move back to DC when DC politicians are kissing their asses to get soccer back. It looks like these county officials are drooling to get another pro team nearby their NFL stadium, and aren't going to put up roadblocks like the DC officials. there's no bias against soccer there because it looks like this will help their county gain prestige.

Let's just hope they follow through and actually build something that somewhat resembles the initial architectural renderings.

Im tired of seeing Pizza Hut Park 2.0s.

deltox
02-16-2009, 01:26 PM
http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090216&content_id=218038&vkey=pr_dcu&fext=.jsp&team=t103

LARGO, MD -- Monday, D.C. United Executive Chairman Victor MacFarlane and club President Kevin Payne joined County Executive Jack Johnson, and Prince George's legislative delegation chairs Sen. Anthony Muse and Del. Melony Griffith to announce the introduction of legislation authorizing a new stadium for D.C. United in Prince George's County.

"We are very pleased at the possibility of D.C. United joining the Prince George's County community," said County Executive Johnson. "This is a great opportunity that will create much needed economic stimulus during tough times, create over 1,000 jobs, and connect our neighborhoods with the first class shopping, restaurants and entertainment that we deserve."
"I am excited and humbled by the positive reception D.C. United has received in Prince George's County and the State of Maryland," said MacFarlane. "The process employed by the state and county has been professional, intelligent and competent. They clearly understand the value of D.C. United, and its potential economic contribution - yet have negotiated to ensure there is no fiscal impact to their existing tax base. Working together, we can achieve the best for all, with tens of millions in economic benefits for years to come."
"D.C. United is committed to Prince George's County and the State of Maryland and together we will bring a significant economic development project without burdening the taxpayers," said Sen. Muse. "Not only are we gaining a new business and professional sport in the county and state, but we are bringing jobs and ongoing economic benefits to our neighborhoods."
"This is the perfect time for this economic development project in Prince George's County," said Del. Griffith. "Not only are we bringing the worlds most popular sport to our county, but creating new jobs and economic and community benefits at the same time. D.C. United has shown its commitment to the county and state by bringing not only the stadium and associated economic benefits, but also by relocating their corporate headquarters and team training facilities. This is how we build strong neighborhoods and families, together."
"Our search for a stadium of our own has been a long and arduous one. The introduction of this legislation is a great step toward achieving that dream," said Payne. "On behalf of our fans, our staff, and our players, I want to express our appreciation to the State of Maryland, and especially to Prince George's County, for agreeing to work with us to make that dream a reality."
The D.C. United stadium would:
Bring the best to Prince George's County: D.C. United is the most successful club in the history of American professional soccer - with 12 major championships, and fan attendance of more than 20,000 per game over the past two years.
Provide real economic stimulus: A new United stadium will generate $65 million to $80 million annually in economic impact in Maryland - which is the equivalent of more than 1,000 jobs (Source: independent report commissioned by the Maryland Stadium Authority (MSA), 10/08).
Additionally, according to the MSA report, every $100 million in construction is projected to create 1,300 additional full-time equivalent jobs - with a project this size generating about 2,500. Moving the team's business operations to Maryland will bring more than 100 jobs into the state.
Pay for itself: The stadium is projected to cost $180 million to $195 million, seat approximately 24,000 fans, and will be funded by D.C. United and new revenue generated by the team and stadium. It will not draw on the existing tax base or require lottery funds.
Welcome a good neighbor: D.C. United has a 14-year history of community involvement:
Serving hundreds of underserved children and families each year with its after school program, United Soccer Club
Promoting education through United Reads, which provides books, school supplies and reading incentives to children
Offering more than 8,000 children a full game day experience each year, with free tickets through its Kicks for Kids program
Promote real opportunity: D.C. United is minority-owned, led by Victor MacFarlane and William Chang, and is committed to providing real opportunity for residents and businesses in Prince George's County. D.C. United is considering seven stadium sites - five at or near Metro stops - and will be working with County leaders and the community to select the best location possible. The team aims to break ground on the stadium in 2009 and complete work in time for the beginning of the 2012 season.

thats a long time to build a stadium...it better be a REALLY REALLY good one!

BBBulldog
02-16-2009, 01:32 PM
eh, guys DC is 15 square feet, most people in this metro area live outside city lines. I live way further than where stadium would be and when someone not from here asks where I live I say DC, so does everyone else in metro area :)

someone made a map of some of proposed sites

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3324/3276164993_755446534f.jpg

LucaGol
02-16-2009, 01:34 PM
eh, guys DC is 15 square feet, most people in this metro area live outside city lines. I live way further than where stadium would be and when someone not from here asks where I live I say DC, so does everyone else in metro area :)

someone made a map of some of proposed sites

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3324/3276164993_755446534f.jpg

So where's Prince George County?

Beach_Red
02-16-2009, 01:35 PM
So you're saying the U-20 was what drove the building of the stadium? For sure it had a lot to do with it as well, but I don't think TFC was any like a side effect of the process.

Well, I don't know for sure. I was surprised to hear one of the Argo owners last week say they were looking at an MLS franchise.

So it seems like a bit of the perfect storm - three levels of government got involved in something, and that would really require a deadline like the U-20 to actually get anything done, and there was some interest in the city for a franchise so MLSE put up a very small amount and the timing was right. MLSE were in no way leading the charge, were they?

I can't see either MLSE or the Argo owners coming in for $40 million for a franchise if there wasn't a stadium already being put up, so yeah, it looks like the momentum was there and these guys came in with the minumum possible investment.

That's not a bad thing, but it's not exactly a compromise, as we were calling it, more like starting small.

james
02-16-2009, 01:49 PM
Baltimore and Red Skin stadiums just look wayyyyy to big.

james
02-16-2009, 01:54 PM
i would hate it if DC United were to move far outside of DC area, that would really hurt the great supporters they have had all these years. DC got the best supporters group in MLS ( tied with TFC Supportrs:p).

If this marryland proposal isnt that far from the current RFK stadium then who cares, DC is better off moving then. How far is this Marryland location from the current RFK stadium? is it easy for DC fans to get there?

rocker
02-16-2009, 02:04 PM
the distance from downtown DC to this Prince George county location is approximately the distance between driving from the Air Canada Centre to Gardiner/427. They have a rail line right at the doorstep that's 4 or 5 stops east of the current stadium's rail stop.

from the current stadium (RFK, which is not right in the center of town) to the new one, you're looking only 10km.. so the distance between the Air Canada Centre and Royal York Road (just passed all those condos they built next to the Gardiner where the motels used to be).

So if TFC moved to it's new stadium on Royal York Road some day, it would still be in Toronto.. but in DC this distance means a new state.

I'm amazed that they have said the stadium will cost 180-190 million. If that's just for the stadium, that's more than Red Bull Park. It must include all the surrounding development, I would think..... but if not, then it should be a pretty solid stadium.

james
02-16-2009, 02:04 PM
The team aims to break ground on the stadium in 2009 and complete work in time for the beginning of the 2012 season.

that is a hell of a long time to build a stadium when you conpare how it took them like 10 month to build BMO field and New York stadium is starting to look awsome and its only taking what 1 and half years to build? It would have to be a sick stadium plan then to take like 3 years to build.

james
02-16-2009, 02:09 PM
the distance from downtown DC to this Prince George county location is approximately the distance between driving from the Air Canada Centre to Gardiner/427.

from the current stadium (RFK) to the new one, you're looking at an extra 10km.. so the distance between the Air Canada Centre and Royal York Road (just passed all those condos they built next to the Gardiner where the motels used to be).

So if TFC moved to it's new stadium on Royal York Road some day, it would still be in Toronto.. but in DC this distance means a new state.

so thats not bad then. When i read that they were moving to Marryland it made it sound like they were packing up and moving the franchise far away.

rocker
02-16-2009, 02:14 PM
moving one's team only 10km from the current stadium doesn't seem that bad to me.
as long as there is public transit at its door, then seems fine. If yer a DC fan coming from the west on public transit, are you really gonna stop coming cuz you have to take an extra 4 stops (10 mins?).

I dunno what the highway situation would be like driving there. but if games are the weekend, I can't imagine the traffic would be a factor.

In a perfect world it would be located next to the White House and Obama would have season's tickets... but this is fine. DC doesn't even really have what you'd think of as a downtown cuz they limit the densities. No really tall buildings like in Toronto.

LucaGol
02-16-2009, 02:45 PM
If BMO was built at Downsview Airport ... it honestly wouldn't be such a big deal.

I mean, Yorkdale and Wilson are right there. So Downtown commuters are taken care of.

It's in a less congested area and easier to get to for people north of the city ... and believe me ... there are plenty of those people.

They would just need to build up the area with some bars and a couple restaurants.


The BMO location at the Ex adding to the majority of the excitement about TFC is a bit overrated. I don't think that's all we have to hang our hat on.

Sure it's nice, but if it was displaced 10 or 15 km ... it wouldn't really be a big deal.

Shway
02-16-2009, 02:50 PM
yea Downsview park thats where the second Toronto team would go lol
wouldnt that be a real serious derby

rocker
02-16-2009, 03:34 PM
you know, Downsview Park would actually be further from BMO Field than the new DC stadium would be from RFK.

Toronto is one damn big city.

or more fun with Google Maps:

if TFC left BMO Field and moved to a stadium 10km East, the same distance and direction DC is moving, TFC's new stadium would be in the Beaches.... at Woodbine Ave.

this also kinda shows how DC people shouldn't worry about fans who don't want to travel out there. Would you stop supporting TFC if they shifted 10 km east to a new stadium in Beaches?

BBBulldog
02-16-2009, 04:46 PM
i would hate it if DC United were to move far outside of DC area, that would really hurt the great supporters they have had all these years. DC got the best supporters group in MLS ( tied with TFC Supportrs:p).


most of Barra Brava come from surrounding Maryland and Virginia counties


So where's Prince George County?

see on other pic I posted, about where it says Seat Pleasant, that's where Md starts

stadium sites are inside beltway, just outside "city line" DC is a small city, size and populationwise, it's metro area that makes it big.

http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/PG_Map_2.jpg

Beach_Red
02-16-2009, 05:03 PM
if TFC left BMO Field and moved to a stadium 10km East, the same distance and direction DC is moving, TFC's new stadium would be in the Beaches.... at Woodbine Ave.


Stop it, you're killing me. I live two blocks from Queen and Woodbine ;). When I moved in here the racetrack was still there. Now I'm thinking imagine if they'd turned that racetrack into BMO?!?!

Detroit_TFC
02-16-2009, 05:10 PM
Isn't it Prince George's where theres been all that problem with police brutality? That's some fucked up shit there.

BBBulldog
02-16-2009, 05:22 PM
Isn't it Prince George's where theres been all that problem with police brutality? That's some fucked up shit there.

yes :boxing:

Cashcleaner
02-17-2009, 01:14 AM
Well, I don't know for sure. I was surprised to hear one of the Argo owners last week say they were looking at an MLS franchise.

So it seems like a bit of the perfect storm - three levels of government got involved in something, and that would really require a deadline like the U-20 to actually get anything done, and there was some interest in the city for a franchise so MLSE put up a very small amount and the timing was right. MLSE were in no way leading the charge, were they?

I can't see either MLSE or the Argo owners coming in for $40 million for a franchise if there wasn't a stadium already being put up, so yeah, it looks like the momentum was there and these guys came in with the minimum possible investment.

That's not a bad thing, but it's not exactly a compromise, as we were calling it, more like starting small.

Yeah, those are all good points. Like you said, MLSE didn't really position themselves as at the forefront of the stadium deal, so I see what you mean.

twistedchinaman
02-17-2009, 01:29 AM
eh, guys DC is 15 square feet, most people in this metro area live outside city lines. I live way further than where stadium would be and when someone not from here asks where I live I say DC, so does everyone else in metro area :)

someone made a map of some of proposed sites

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3324/3276164993_755446534f.jpg

Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! Pick the one at Largo Town Centre!

twistedchinaman
02-17-2009, 01:33 AM
moving one's team only 10km from the current stadium doesn't seem that bad to me.
as long as there is public transit at its door, then seems fine. If yer a DC fan coming from the west on public transit, are you really gonna stop coming cuz you have to take an extra 4 stops (10 mins?).

You never know, but you are right about the four stops: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Line_(Washington_Metro)

Four more stops for us to sing and make noise -- are we still allowed to do that on the Washington Metro???

EdTheRed
02-17-2009, 11:18 AM
Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! Pick the one at Largo Town Centre!
Largo Town Centre is right where the old Capital Centre used to be - only there was no Metro stop there back when the Cap Centre was still open, so traffic was a lot worse than it would be nowadays.

BBBulldog
02-24-2009, 04:03 PM
quick FAQ

http://www.behindthebadge.com/2009/02/dc-united-stadium-proposal-faq.php

Detroit_TFC
02-24-2009, 07:52 PM
I hate to say it but these new stadia are going to make BMO into a relic in just a few years. I hope, when it happens, BMO 2.0 will be more than just 10,000 extra seats.

james
02-25-2009, 04:23 PM
I hate to say it but these new stadia are going to make BMO into a relic in just a few years. I hope, when it happens, BMO 2.0 will be more than just 10,000 extra seats.

all the new stadiums being built are between 20-25,000 seats. The biggest new stadium built was LA Home Depot Center that has 27,000.

BMO was only built to exspand to a possible 30,000 seats....that would be big enough, i dont think they would sell out every single game if you get any bigger.

Keystone FC
02-25-2009, 07:10 PM
I hate to say it but these new stadia are going to make BMO into a relic in just a few years. I hope, when it happens, BMO 2.0 will be more than just 10,000 extra seats.

As far as BMO is concerned we all know it was built for expansion and we have the room for it. What this means, though, is that this league will be a sole operating stadium league within the next few years with KC, Houston, DC, RBNY (who are shite), Philly (shovels hit the dirt) and San Jose (in the works). The Revs and Sounders are owned by the owners of the stadium so that helps. What it all comes down to is that within the next few years most MLS clubs should be operating in the red which means more money for players (hopefully) and a better league.

EdTheRed
02-27-2009, 01:50 PM
Latest update, via the Washington Post's Steve Goff...they've narrowed the site search down to 3, all near transit. (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/soccerinsider/2009/02/dcu_stadium_news.html)

gmacpheetfc
03-01-2009, 07:47 PM
After years of fits and starts, D.C. United's long-running quest for a home of their own took a massive step forward on Monday morning as club executives joined state and county officials at a crowded press conference announcing new legislation to build a soccer-specific stadium in Prince George's County, Maryland.

http://dcunited.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090216&content_id=218137&vkey=news_dcu&fext=.jsp&team=t103

drewski
03-25-2009, 10:51 AM
one step forward, two steps back

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/24/AR2009032402864.html

giambac
03-25-2009, 11:20 AM
from SBI



READ MORE
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/02/ready-for-dc-united-to-leave-dc.html


stone throw away from DC. No big deal.