CFL Commissioner wades into Ottawa stadium debate.

[Billy the kid]

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Sports/commissioner+wades+into+football+soccer+debate/1282615/story.html

CFL commissioner making the case for CFL stadium.

[Billy the kid]

http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3776767

Similiar article, different source.

[Wagner]

yawn...

Melnyk should push for Frank Clair to be the soccer stadium.
a short bus ride from the Byward market...universities close by...it would be an awesome soccer experience.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Fack them, BOOOOOO to the CFL.

[C.Ronaldo]

why ottawa is getting anything before other cities is beyond me.

halifax or quebec city - cfl team before ottawa

montreal / vancouver - mls team before ottawa.


if the queen didnt pick ottawa as the capital, the city wouldnt even be on the map.
Sorry to say, but its true.

Every other major city in canada has natural resources like oil, mining, ocean, lake, ports.

I dont hate ottawa, i love its beauty, but its not a major city in the traditional sense, at least not yet

[bdiddy]

The fact is CFL has failed there several times, as much as CFL might be a success in the future. Why not give MLS a chance to succeed; especially around a time when it seems to be in demand.

Bring NFL to Toronto, transfer CFL team from Toronto to Ottawa :P

[Fort York Redcoat]

Way to throw yer weight around commish. Wevver.

[rocker]

can someone explain to me the history behind why Ottawa lost the CFL team? people cite good attendance. so why did it end? why couldn't the previous owners of the CFL team keep it going if attendance and the market itself was good?

[egoodwin]

public transit wise, Kanata would probably be the better option, as far as I remember it's got a bunch of express buses to it that go along the transitway, however Frank Clair was along bank street, which has a few buses, and moving along that street after any game or anything is hell...

plus it's right off the highway, compared to Frank Clair which is a good bit away from a highway

[S_D]

can someone explain to me the history behind why Ottawa lost the CFL team? people cite good attendance. so why did it end? why couldn't the previous owners of the CFL team keep it going if attendance and the market itself was good?


where to start lol.

The team sucked for 2 decades, management sucked, the Glieberman's took over and sucked worse.

Seasons seats were cheap... $90. When I bought them I felt guilty for paying so little. Close to midfield on the second deck of the south side.

Management was so bad, they drafted a guy who was dead.

When the renegades were instated, nobody trusted that they would be around long so they just died.

I was just looking at the roughies on wikpedia and they pretty well have it right. They even mention the dead guy getting drafted :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottawa_Rough_Riders

[spezz44]

im fairly sure the first time they shut down the attendence was still fairly good and it was poor management like you said no?

[Marc"2L"]

The city has to decide. CFL or MLS. I'm trying to talk to my ward councilor about this and tell her it has to be MLS at Frank Clair. With that in mind, I will not be supporting them down the line.

Remember, there's a slew of schools in Ottawa that have students from all over. Couple that with partnerships between the student federations for group rates and who knows. Of course this only applies if it's build downtown. Can't exactly march a bunch of frosh kids down to scotiabank.

[S_D]

well they were losing money by the bucketloads at the time if I remember correctly. I know for a fact though that attendance was dropping and the owners couldn't afford to keep up.

The city though is a lot better off than it was in the 80's as it has a lot more going for it than just government.

[S_D]

Remember, there's a slew of schools in Ottawa that have students from all over. Couple that with partnerships between the student federations for group rates and who knows. Of course this only applies if it's build downtown. Can't exactly march a bunch of frosh kids down to scotiabank.

ahh I rmeember the frosh marches to the Panda Game. Good times.

Problem with the university thing is that they are somewhat deserted over the summer compared to the September-May time period so the students would be good for the end of the season but not the beginning to the late-middle of the season.

[Cashcleaner]

can someone explain to me the history behind why Ottawa lost the CFL team? people cite good attendance. so why did it end? why couldn't the previous owners of the CFL team keep it going if attendance and the market itself was good?

Oh man, the Rough Riders/Renegades were so horribly managed towards the end. I don't recall people coming out in droves to watch the team play, but I wouldn't call its attendance numbers terrible by any stretch either. In their last season they pulled in around 16,000 - 18,000 for most games and it should be noted that its a higher number than most MLS franchises got in 2007. On that note, I should again remind people that the CFL average league attendance easily trumps MLS average league attendance. In '07 the CFL usually saw about 30,000 or so for an average regular season game while MLS hovered around 18,000.

Despite the numbers in favour of a CFL franchise, I still think it would be a foolhardy plan to bring a gridiron team back to the city. As much as I don't think an MLS franchise would be a success, I think a CFL team is an even riskier endeavour.

[Marc"2L"]

public transit wise, Kanata would probably be the better option, as far as I remember it's got a bunch of express buses to it that go along the transitway, however Frank Clair was along bank street, which has a few buses, and moving along that street after any game or anything is hell...

plus it's right off the highway, compared to Frank Clair which is a good bit away from a highway

It's a shame Ottawa has such a poorly developed transit system. So building some sort of parking structure will be a must.

[Pachuco]

Fuck Ottawa! Don't like the sens, don't like future MLS or CFL teams either that reside in Ottawa.

[TFC07]

where to start lol.

The team sucked for 2 decades, management sucked, the Glieberman's took over and sucked worse.

Seasons seats were cheap... $90. When I bought them I felt guilty for paying so little. Close to midfield on the second deck of the south side.

Management was so bad, they drafted a guy who was dead.

When the renegades were instated, nobody trusted that they would be around long so they just died.

I was just looking at the roughies on wikpedia and they pretty well have it right. They even mention the dead guy getting drafted :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottawa_Rough_Riders

I believe Argos current season ticket price is $90-$100 right now. :eek:

[Redcoe15]

Sportsnet's Perry Lefko wades in on the Ottawa stadium debate:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/2009/02/12/lefko_ottawa/

[Cashcleaner]

I believe Argos current season ticket price is $90-$100 right now. :eek:

Ummm, really? I only ask because when I got my order form the cheapest season tickets were $300.00.

[tfcmanu]

Here Is some Info on The CSL Team in the Mid 90's averaged 1,823 Fans a game, 2,000 was Capacity where they played.

Terry Fox Stadium, a quaint little athletic field adjacent the Rideau Canal next to the University of Ottawa, would serve as the home stadium for the Intrepid in 1988. The bleachers capacity was approximately 2,000 with some standing room along the track that encompassed the pitch. The club averaged 1,823 fans per game in 1988.


http://tripatlas.com/Ottawa_Intrepid (http://tripatlas.com/Ottawa_Intrepid)

[ccopela]

In '07 the CFL usually saw about 30,000 or so for an average regular season game while MLS hovered around 18,000.



Can't really compare attendances between the leagues because the CFL season has far fewer games then the MLS season.

[Cashcleaner]

^ That's true. The results are also skewed by the fact that MLS has more teams as well.

[rocker]

from what i've read the prob with the Lansdowne site is that the neighbourhood people ain't too happy about redeveloping the property as a sports stadium again. The kanata site is much worse in location but it'll probably face less NIMBYism. There's also nothing there but a snow dump on site, so they can start construction almost right away.

the thing i don't get is how the CFL stadium is costed at 50 million while the MLS stadium is costed at 100 million. The Lefko article says the CFL one is 25K seats but then he says the MLS one is 30K seats.. but that's wrong. the documents have the MLS stadium at 20K seats with expansion for concerts and other events to 30K (probably portable seating). Something's weird with the planning costs there. How can the CFL guys built a 25K seat stadium for just 50 million? It would be a piece of crap. 100 million for a 20K seat socce stadium seems like a much more realistic price for a decent stadium.

[tovan]

from what i've read the prob with the Lansdowne site is that the neighbourhood people ain't too happy about redeveloping the property as a sports stadium again. The kanata site is much worse in location but it'll probably face less NIMBYism. There's also nothing there but a snow dump on site, so they can start construction almost right away.

the thing i don't get is how the CFL stadium is costed at 50 million while the MLS stadium is costed at 100 million. The Lefko article says the CFL one is 25K seats but then he says the MLS one is 30K seats.. but that's wrong. the documents have the MLS stadium at 20K seats with expansion for concerts and other events to 30K (probably portable seating). Something's weird with the planning costs there. How can the CFL guys built a 25K seat stadium for just 50 million? It would be a piece of crap. 100 million for a 20K seat socce stadium seems like a much more realistic price for a decent stadium.


The CFL guys are refurbishing an existing Frank Clair Stadium while MLS guys are building a stadium from scratch. Most of the stadium already exists... it would get a facelift and a new lower deck on one of the grandstands. http://www.lansdownelive.ca/

[Cashcleaner]

the thing i don't get is how the CFL stadium is costed at 50 million while the MLS stadium is costed at 100 million. The Lefko article says the CFL one is 25K seats but then he says the MLS one is 30K seats.. but that's wrong. the documents have the MLS stadium at 20K seats with expansion for concerts and other events to 30K (probably portable seating). Something's weird with the planning costs there. How can the CFL guys built a 25K seat stadium for just 50 million? It would be a piece of crap. 100 million for a 20K seat socce stadium seems like a much more realistic price for a decent stadium.

These sort of projects are notorious for skewed accounting. Stade Saputo cost a bit over 14,000,000 to build while BMO Field was over 62,500,000. That means our stadium cost over 4 times the amount paid for Stade Saputo yet we don't even have twice the amount of seats.

If you break it down in terms of cost per seat, that makes 1 seat at Saputo costing around $1081.79 and 1 seat at BMO Field costing 2998.46. Of course, BMO Field has more broadcasting, training, and support facilities so that can explain a bit of the cost increase, but probably not all of it.

[Mark in Ottawa]

can someone explain to me the history behind why Ottawa lost the CFL team? people cite good attendance. so why did it end? why couldn't the previous owners of the CFL team keep it going if attendance and the market itself was good?
Classic Mismanagement including the American owners introducing a New Orleans style "collect the beads" contest at games for a cash prize.

Every skank in the city arrived and began hiking up her shirt for the drunken louts in the crowd. Great family entertainment... right?

The crowds stayed away in droves.

O and don't forget that the team was really bad... a steady revolving door of players who never really seemed to hit it off with the residents of the city.

[greatwhitenorf]

These sort of projects are notorious for skewed accounting. Stade Saputo cost a bit over 14,000,000 to build while BMO Field was over 62,500,000. That means our stadium cost over 4 times the amount paid for Stade Saputo yet we don't even have twice the amount of seats.

If you break it down in terms of cost per seat, that makes 1 seat at Saputo costing around $1081.79 and 1 seat at BMO Field costing 2998.46. Of course, BMO Field has more broadcasting, training, and support facilities so that can explain a bit of the cost increase, but probably not all of it.


The higher costs might come from having MLSE's Larry Tanenbaum pour the concrete for the job and there's a lot more of it at BMO than at Saputo. And more to come if they, as rumoured, make the east side a twin of the west when they expand.

But there's vested interests in all these deals. Hunt has interest in how Lansdowne is revamped since his Ottawa 67s juniors play in the adjoining arena and it badly needs a freshening up. He might find it worrisome if Lansdowne doesn't get CFL and he's left with an aging arena nestled under an unused, crumbling grandstand that the city won't help him renovate.

Melnyk wants the MLS stadium next to the Sens arena to streamline his operation and take advantage of resources like bars and restaurants already in place at the arena. And a lot of property developers, influential behind the scenes, love the expanded highway system and transit service out to the Kanata area.

[rocker]

i think Stade Saputo looks like it cost 14 million... I mean, there's nothing under the two metal stands (yeah, BMO has metal stands, but not like Saputo's.. they have so many beams they can't have washrooms or concessions under the stands). Also, the covered stand side was already built for the 1976 olympics. So they didn't even have to pour any concrete for that (except one little corner, since it went up the hill at a diagonal). Under that stand, there was already washrooms and a tunnel. They just tossed up a roof with the boxes under.

And the building that houses the locker rooms and offices is maybe a third, if that, the size of the building under BMO's west stand.

With 7000 more seats, 20 more boxes, much more concession infrastructure and many more washrooms, a much larger pressbox (tower), it's not surprising to me that BMO cost 62 million as opposed to 14 for Saputo.

[GeorgeB]

i think Stade Saputo looks like it cost 14 million... I mean, there's nothing under the two metal stands (yeah, BMO has metal stands, but not like Saputo's.. they have so many beams they can't have washrooms or concessions under the stands). Also, the covered stand side was already built for the 1976 olympics. So they didn't even have to pour any concrete for that (except one little corner, since it went up the hill at a diagonal). Under that stand, there was already washrooms and a tunnel. They just tossed up a roof with the boxes under.

And the building that houses the locker rooms and offices is maybe a third, if that, the size of the building under BMO's west stand.

With 7000 more seats, 20 more boxes, much more concession infrastructure and many more washrooms, a much larger pressbox (tower), it's not surprising to me that BMO cost 62 million as opposed to 14 for Saputo.plus all the spectators in the whole stadium (saputo)use two washrooms. i wasted all of halftime (over 20 min)waiting to take a piss.

[ginkster88]

Saputo is shit, I was really surprised at it's poor quality at the WCQ... I broke a seat clean off the bleachers for crying out loud... funny how that just came back to me out of the haze.