Multiculturalism and TFC

[Luanda]

One of the answers relating to the now less than surprising fan base of TFC may well lie in the multicultural diversity of Greater Toronto.

I wonder, though, it if would not be a good idea, to have a thread where TFC fans could post their particular reasons as to why they have taken to the club the way they have. Not exactly a poll, but some candid disclosures.

I grew up, for example, listening on the radio to games between some of the biggest Portuguese clubs and watching the odd (that is, important) game between Portugal and other European national teams.

When I moved to Canada, there just was no footy: The Montreal Manic disappeared as quickly as they appeared.

So, after I had settled in Toronto and TFC came along....

[jabbronies]

Sorry, what's the question??

[jabbronies]

Sorry, what's the question??


nevermind..I got it

[tfcmanu]

The oldman is a Benfica supporter, don't like Benfica so I took a liking to Sporting Lisbon, However there not the team I follow I'm a TFC and MANU supporter, anyways before TFC I followed the Toronto Blizzard when I was a kid I have alot of memories going down to the Exhibition stadium to watch the Blizzards and International games I was a big fan of David Byrne I even have his jersey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Byrne_(South_African_soccer).There was also the CSL that did'nt last to long I also followed and played in the LUSO CANADIAN LEAGUE at Lamport that was fun it was a league formed by the Portuguese community with one Polish team those where good times and here I am today an avid TFC supporter I'm hooked I can't wait for the season to start...ALL FOR ONE!

[trane]

This has been done before, but here we go again. I grew up in Milano, Italy. Some of you may be aware that in Italy calcio is a religion. Now I am a proud Torontonian and Canadian, so when we got a team it was natural to support it. Having said that I expect better play soon, or my enthusiasm may not be there much longer. I love the team, I hate the MLS.

[Luanda]

This has been done before, but here we go again. I grew up in Milano, Italy. Some of you may be aware that in Italy calcio is a religion. Now I am a proud Torontonian and Canadian, so when we got a team it was natural to support it. Having said that I expect better play soon, or my enthusiasm may not be there much longer. I love the team, I hate the MLS.

That may well be "this has been done before"... But, is it just previous backgrounds ingrained in footy? Thus, after 3 years, has TFC made ground amongst those who previously cared little for the sport? It one one thing for the former to support TFC, but what about the latter?

[FluSH]

I'm actually more interested to hear about the regular anglos... the 3rd generation I forgot where my parent's came from Canadians.

Beign to almost every single game at BMO... I haven't noticed many West Indian, Latinos, Portuguese, or Italians coming out in droves... I mean they are there... that's for sure, but nothing for me to say that a specific group has come en masse (i.e. like the Mexicans do in Columbus).

[starrynightnf]

I am relatively new to soccer and supporting a team. If I'd happen upon a match on TV I'd watch. Then when the 06 world cup was on the go I started watching and was instantly hooked, that's when I learned of Canada getting a team in the MLS and have been a TFC supporter ever since!

[FluSH]

^^^^

YES!

This is what I am talking about...

[trane]

I'm actually more interested to hear about the regular anglos... the 3rd generation I forgot where my parent's came from Canadians.

Beign to almost every single game at BMO... I haven't noticed many West Indian, Latinos, Portuguese, or Italians coming out in droves... I mean they are there... that's for sure, but nothing for me to say that a specific group has come en masse (i.e. like the Mexicans do in Columbus).

To be honest, the team is too "English" in style for most Italians, even for me at times I struggle with the style and player content for not being "Italian" enough. The thing is that for me the "English" game is my second favourite game, followed by the German game which has grown on me the last couple of years. But to be honest if the Impact and TFC were in the same city I would follow the Impact hands down. Most Italians born in Italy, or raised on calcio would feel the same. The team's image and marketing of and on the field does not speak to Italians. COnsidering that Italians and Italian-Canadians ( those born in Canada to Italian paretns) are such a hige portion of the Southern Ontario population it is a lost opportunity. If Saputo brought a MLS team to Ontario they would fill the stadium.

[loconet]

I started following football at around the same time I learned to walk. Following the local team is only natural. Finally a common club to cheer for. Love it.


...., Latinos, ......

Yah, I noticed that as well. One interesting thing that I have observed though is how snobby Latinos are about who they follow. Specially TFC. Holy crap. Some won't watch TFC games or attend the games because they are "not good enough". They think it's a joke - "innocent/amateur play" :rolleyes:

Is it just Latinos? How are other cultures? Specially the older folks. How about you FluSH, notice anything like that with friends/family?

[FluSH]

I started following football at around the same time I learned to walk. Following the local team is only natural. Finally a common club to cheer for. Love it.



Yah, I noticed that as well. One interesting thing that I have observed though is how snobby Latinos are about who they follow. Specially TFC. Holy crap. Some won't watch TFC games or attend the games because they are "not good enough". They think it's a joke - "innocent/amateur play" :rolleyes:

Is it just Latinos? How are other cultures? Specially the older folks. How about you FluSH, notice anything like that with friends/family?

Yup... my dad and all of our family friends... it sounds like I'm making a sales pitch every time I try to explain how TFC is doing etc tetc... they'll come around though... and I think it's more of the style of play as trane said it than anything else...

[SweetOwnGoal]

I'm actually more interested to hear about the regular anglos... the 3rd generation I forgot where my parent's came from Canadians.

Beign to almost every single game at BMO... I haven't noticed many West Indian, Latinos, Portuguese, or Italians coming out in droves... I mean they are there... that's for sure, but nothing for me to say that a specific group has come en masse (i.e. like the Mexicans do in Columbus).

I'm a Canuck through and through. I have family in England but they have literally nothing to do with my love of the sport.

That came from playing it. And I started playing it after I watched Canada make the World Cup. Four years later I really got hooked watching Italia 90 on my illegal satellite dish. I watched every game and have been hardcore ever since.

My loyalties have always been the domestic game first because that's what I had. TFC is a natural, and long desired, extension of my life-long love of the game. To me, TFC represents the latest instalment of a string that stretches all the way back through the Lynx, the CSL and NASL Blizzard, Metros-Croatia and Toronto City. So, this team isn't "new" to me. It's part of a long history.

[anto7]

I spent the first 29 years of my life growing up in Doncaster, South Yorkshire, England. Like most young working class men in England football was everything to me. I supported my home town team Doncaster Rovers but also followed Man Utd since I was about 5 years old. I travelled the length and breadth of the country following the Rovers and for a team that spent most of it's history in the bottom 2 divisions it was tough at times to hold your head up high.
I emigrated to Belleville, Ontario in 1990. I immediately hooked myself up to play on a team in the local men's league and since the team was pretty much made up of guys of European desent it helped me maintain my passion for the game.
The one thing that was missing though was not being able to see any live professional soccer anymore and having a team to support. Sure I still followed the Rovers and United back in England but it was not the same.
Then along came TFC !. I immediately bought seasons tickets but to be honest I really did not know what to expect. I think I was expecting empty stadiums and boring soccer.
The first game blew away all of those notions. When they played the national anthem before that first home game I have to admit it brought a tear to my eye. Finally I had a team to call my own again and the chance to be a part of a new chapter in Canadian soccer history.
I can honestly say that I feel as passionate about TFC as I ever did for Donny Rovers and Man Utd.
Driving from Belleville to Toronto each home game is quite a jaunt but absoloutely worth it.
TFC, best thing that ever happened for a football crazy ex-brit !

[SweetOwnGoal]

I
I emigrated to Belleville, Ontario in 1990. I immediately hooked myself up to play on a team in the local men's league and since the team was pretty much made up of guys of European desent it helped me maintain my passion for the game.


I played (in theory I was "playing anyway)in the Belleville league around then. What team were you on?

[dupont]

I was born in Scarborough and so were both of my parents. My grandparents are from Austria but they seem to be hockey fans more than soccer. I think they left a lot of their culture in Europe before boarding the boat to Canada.

I always hated sports my whole life. Especially Football (american football obviously). I always thought of sports as a bunch of oversized gorillas running head first into each other and that bothered the hell out of me. If i was to watch a sport, I want to see intelligent plays and speed to carry the flow of the game more than stupid brute force.

So about 4 years ago I noticed soccer fit the criteria for what I was looking for in a sport.. however I love Toronto so much that I found it difficult to care about the sport unless my home city had a professional team to cheer for.
Then when I went to my first game it was everything I had hoped for. 20 thousand Torontonians screaming and chanting together in support of our team that plays in the only sport I can truly take seriously.
It was perfect.

[mlsintoronto]

i lost a bet at the office and had no choice....





:) j/k

[anto7]

I played (in theory I was "playing anyway)in the Belleville league around then. What team were you on?
Hellenics.
Still play for them now, captain for the last 15 years.
We have won the men's league title 18 out of the last 20 seasons.
Who did you play for ?. What is your name ?.
Cheers
Anto

[trane]

i lost a bet at the office and had no choice....





:) j/k


I am not sure you can tell us, but how are your numbers, if you know, among the Italian community, first and second generation? I would suspect not great.

[starrynightnf]

i lost a bet at the office and had no choice....





:) j/k

hahahahahaha!! Great bet to lose! ;)

[TFC Via Buffalo]

You guys have it easy. You're not from somewhere that the sport is openly mocked and treated like a absolute joke. I'm looked at like an idiot when I say I go up to Toronto for the games, especially last year when I made all 19. I love my American Football to no end. I love football too. I am luck that 2 of my friends like the actual sport and one just goes up to yell things and is starting to like and understand the game. I'd say it's even harder to convert people to the game as opposed to a team.

[SweetOwnGoal]

Hellenics.
Still play for them now, captain for the last 15 years.
We have won the men's league title 18 out of the last 20 seasons.
Who did you play for ?. What is your name ?.
Cheers
Anto

I was but a kid then, so you wouldn't know me...Duane is my name. I played for a team called Belleville Olympic (who was put in by a bunch of guys looking to challenge Hellenics. We finished second, IIRC) my first year in the league. As I said, I was still in high school then...so I didn't feature much against the better teams. The next year I went with a a younger team so I could play more -- Copperfield's Trenton. We were awful (I have a distinct memory of losing 7-0 to you guys in a torrential downpour at the NorTel field), but I started up front every game so..

Then I moved away.

[Damien]

I'm as caker as they come.... and I got into soccer during the '94 World Cup USA.

[anto7]

I was but a kid then, so you wouldn't know me...Duane is my name. I played for a team called Belleville Olympic (who was put in by a bunch of guys looking to challenge Hellenics. We finished second, IIRC) my first year in the league. As I said, I was still in high school then...so I didn't feature much against the better teams. The next year I went with a a younger team so I could play more -- Copperfield's Trenton. We were awful (I have a distinct memory of losing 7-0 to you guys in a torrential downpour at the NorTel field), but I started up front every game so..

Then I moved away.
Small world it is Duane.
I do remember playing against Olympic in my first year with the Hellenics, pretty tough game and I actually got the first yellow card in my career in the game. Sorry I cannot remember you by name but hey that was a long time ago.

[trane]

I'm as caker as they come.... and I got into soccer during the '94 World Cup USA.


I thought your first footy memory is getting into a scrap in Galsgow with Rangers supporters when you were 7 or 8.

[SilverSamurai]

I am relatively new to soccer and supporting a team. If I'd happen upon a match on TV I'd watch. Then when the 06 world cup was on the go I started watching and was instantly hooked, that's when I learned of Canada getting a team in the MLS and have been a TFC supporter ever since!
+1.
I'm in the same boat. I pretty much only watched when it was the World Cup but since the 2k6 WC it's been love at 1st sight.

Yup... my dad and all of our family friends... it sounds like I'm making a sales pitch every time I try to explain how TFC is doing etc tetc... they'll come around though... and I think it's more of the style of play as trane said it than anything else...
I know what you mena.
They'll come around, that or we'll deport them. lol:canada:

[GuelphStorm2007]

I have noticed in the last 4 years a lot of people I know who prevously dumped on Footy are now starting to appreciate it more. These guys were your typical Don Cherry type sport fans. Maybe they are starting to be bored with the North American sports scene. who knows. Last year I took a co worker to a TFC game and this guy was a huge footy basher. But once he saw how the fans were thw atmoshere, the songs being sung his whole opinion changed. Now he will come up to me and say things like How come Canadians are not better in the game of Soccer. It is great That we are good in Hockey , but the whole world doesn't care about Hockey". Or he will ask things like "Has TFC signed a DP yet"

[CretanBull]

To be honest, the team is too "English" in style for most Italians, even for me at times I struggle with the style and player content for not being "Italian" enough. The thing is that for me the "English" game is my second favourite game, followed by the German game which has grown on me the last couple of years. But to be honest if the Impact and TFC were in the same city I would follow the Impact hands down. Most Italians born in Italy, or raised on calcio would feel the same. The team's image and marketing of and on the field does not speak to Italians. COnsidering that Italians and Italian-Canadians ( those born in Canada to Italian paretns) are such a hige portion of the Southern Ontario population it is a lost opportunity. If Saputo brought a MLS team to Ontario they would fill the stadium.

The Italian community in Montreal is huge. Most English speaking people there are either Irish, Jewish or Italian. Most of the Irish people have blended (ie there aren't many Irish-specific neighbourhoods), Jews have have never been big into sports (as a community). Marketting to Italians makes sense - especially when the owners are themselves Italian. Selling the game to French Canadians (most of whom have no immediate connection to France) becomes easier with an 'Italian' stamp of approval on it. Selling the game to people who were previously uninterested in footy becomes a little easier with "look, the Italian community is behind this" nod of quality. Getting the endorsement of the English community in Montreal wouldn't do a thing for them ;)

However, in Toronto I think the same type of stragedy is being applied to attract the 3rd generation Canadians that Flush mentioned, but here it makes sense to court the English 'seal of approval'. The immigrant population -most of whom were raised watching footy- are going to support the team regardless, but getting that English-approval is probably key to selling the game to multi-generational Canadians.

Know what I mean?

[tfcmanu]

I'm a Canuck through and through. I have family in England but they have literally nothing to do with my love of the sport.

That came from playing it. And I started playing it after I watched Canada make the World Cup. Four years later I really got hooked watching Italia 90 on my illegal satellite dish. I watched every game and have been hardcore ever since.

My loyalties have always been the domestic game first because that's what I had. TFC is a natural, and long desired, extension of my life-long love of the game. To me, TFC represents the latest instalment of a string that stretches all the way back through the Lynx, the CSL and NASL Blizzard, Metros-Croatia and Toronto City. So, this team isn't "new" to me. It's part of a long history.

You forgot the Toronto Falcons

[twistedchinaman]

I'm sure I ain't alone in being Westerner (as in Western Canada) and Chinese, but we Chinese as you know are huge fans of Premier League. My old man is a Man U supporter, and I really never got into it until I heard about Toronto's new team. Thought to myself, hey it's local (having seen SOME MLS beforehand), and started watching. After 24", I was hooked.

[Lucky Strike]

I am relatively new to soccer and supporting a team. If I'd happen upon a match on TV I'd watch. Then when the 06 world cup was on the go I started watching and was instantly hooked, that's when I learned of Canada getting a team in the MLS and have been a TFC supporter ever since!

Argh, you stole my story! :D Well, not completely. I always enjoyed watching the sport in the past (as in prior to the 2006 WC) but was never able to get hooked on a team. A lot of people have overseas teams that they live and breathe because of their background but my family has been here since the early 1600s so there was never any affinity for a European football team. The reason why I love TFC is because they're close (relatively speaking) and I can actually go and see them without spending thousands of dollars and getting on a trans-atlantic flight. At first, I was "just" intrigued by TFC; it was neat that Canada was getting an MLS team but I didn't know if my liking would catch on. But after the first home game, the loud crowd chanting, the professional broadcast, etc... TFC felt like a "real" team, something to get excited about! I know one thing: if TFC had been supported by silent dead-beats that barely fill the stadium half-way, I don't know if I would have gotten hooked.

[twistedchinaman]

i lost a bet at the office and had no choice....





:) j/k


Hey Paulie, have you guys thought about a few Chinese ads (Cantonese and Mandarin) for OMNI or Fairchild? Huge community, huge footy fans. You could do well there. :)

[trane]

The Italian community in Montreal is huge. Most English speaking people there are either Irish, Jewish or Italian. Most of the Irish people have blended (ie there aren't many Irish-specific neighbourhoods), Jews have have never been big into sports (as a community). Marketting to Italians makes sense - especially when the owners are themselves Italian. Selling the game to French Canadians (most of whom have no immediate connection to France) becomes easier with an 'Italian' stamp of approval on it. Selling the game to people who were previously uninterested in footy becomes a little easier with "look, the Italian community is behind this" nod of quality. Getting the endorsement of the English community in Montreal wouldn't do a thing for them ;)

However, in Toronto I think the same type of stragedy is being applied to attract the 3rd generation Canadians that Flush mentioned, but here it makes sense to court the English 'seal of approval'. The immigrant population -most of whom were raised watching footy- are going to support the team regardless, but getting that English-approval is probably key to selling the game to multi-generational Canadians.

Know what I mean?

It certainly has worked. However, from an informal anecdotal obseravation in the Italian community, which is even larger in Toronto, I think that first generation is still almost half a million, and second generation numbers are likely similar, TFC has not caught on the same way it has in the rest of the population. Therefore there is still a large potential audience, who already like the sport, but are not watching the MLS/TFC.

[jrey]

To me, football has always been second to hockey. I grew up playing hockey, and worshipping the Maple Leafs. Every now and then, I would catch a football match on TV and of course watch the WC and Euro.

I was in Europe during the last WC (unfortunate not to catch a match) and spent time with people from all over in bars and on the street watching and then celebrating matches. The passion for football that I witnessed is something I'll never forget.

Later that year, TFC was announced and I bought seasons within a day or two of them coming out.

Unfortunately I only found out about the RPB months later and am thus sitting in 116 -- but each season it gets rowdier over on my side, and this year I hope to be a catalyst of noise in my section.

[Beach_Red]

The Italian community in Montreal is huge. Most English speaking people there are either Irish, Jewish or Italian. Most of the Irish people have blended (ie there aren't many Irish-specific neighbourhoods), Jews have have never been big into sports (as a community). Marketting to Italians makes sense - especially when the owners are themselves Italian. Selling the game to French Canadians (most of whom have no immediate connection to France) becomes easier with an 'Italian' stamp of approval on it. Selling the game to people who were previously uninterested in footy becomes a little easier with "look, the Italian community is behind this" nod of quality. Getting the endorsement of the English community in Montreal wouldn't do a thing for them ;)

However, in Toronto I think the same type of stragedy is being applied to attract the 3rd generation Canadians that Flush mentioned, but here it makes sense to court the English 'seal of approval'. The immigrant population -most of whom were raised watching footy- are going to support the team regardless, but getting that English-approval is probably key to selling the game to multi-generational Canadians.

Know what I mean?


Yes, I do.

I was going to say haven't you ever been to the Point, but you said there aren't many Irish-specific neighbourhoods, not that there aren't any ;).

But I would doubt that the marketing of the Impact was as delibertely after an Italian community nod of approval, as you say. It may be happening, but wasn;t likely the intent. Their uniforms have Fleur de Lys, afterall, and the Quebec government has been a sposor so there's a Quebec flag on there. It seems like they were clearly out to become "Quebec's team," and they may be well on the way to doing that.

[TFC HSV]

I started following TFC when they first started. I just loved it. I went to Hamburg to visit and took in my first soccer match (Hamburg SV-Hertha BSC) and was hooked the atmosphere is great. Now that I have a local team to follow and I'm able to watch a fair bit of hamburgs games I'm into soccer a lot more.

[CretanBull]

It certainly has worked. However, from an informal anecdotal obseravation in the Italian community, which is even larger in Toronto, I think that first generation is still almost half a million, and second generation numbers are likely similar, TFC has not caught on the same way it has in the rest of the population. Therefore there is still a large potential audience, who already like the sport, but are not watching the MLS/TFC.

I think the danger in Toronto is that if they gave the team an Italian flare it would become an 'Italian' team and the support wouldn't bleed over into the wider population (ie the people who weren't interested in footy before MLS came to Toronto). In Ontario, giving the team an English feel allows the team to borrow from the credibility of English footy but there's no chance of it becoming a niche team because the English (ie from England) community isn't big enough, yet it's something that 3rd, 4th etc generation Canadians can relate to (how many time have you asked a 'Canadian' where they are from and they say something like "I don't know, a little English, I little Irish - something like that").

Having said all that, obviously landing someone like Del Piero would have been amazing for us. Most importantly, he's a top quality player than anyone can appreciate and enjoy watching play. Additionally, it would bring in the Italian 'community' (and not just individual Italian supports, which we already have a lot of). Personality wise etc. he would have been the perfect player for us. I don't know anyone who doesn't like him, I've even heard people say things like "I hate Italian football...except for Del Piero".

[twistedchinaman]

I think the danger in Toronto is that if they gave the team an Italian flare it would become an 'Italian' team and the support wouldn't bleed over into the wider population (ie the people who weren't interested in footy before MLS came to Toronto). In Ontario, giving the team an English feel allows the team to borrow from the credibility of English footy but there's no chance of it becoming a niche team because the English (ie from England) community isn't big enough, yet it's something that 3rd, 4th etc generation Canadians can relate to (how many time have you asked a 'Canadian' where they are from and they say something like "I don't know, a little English, I little Irish - something like that").

Having said all that, obviously landing someone like Del Piero would have been amazing for us. Most importantly, he's a top quality player than anyone can appreciate and enjoy watching play. Additionally, it would bring in the Italian 'community' (and not just individual Italian supports, which we already have a lot of). Personality wise etc. he would have been the perfect player for us. I don't know anyone who doesn't like him, I've even heard people say things like "I hate Italian football...except for Del Piero".


^ That's the thing, too. No offense, but people would recognize a team in the Premier League faster than they could name a Serie A team. If the name chosen was something like Inter Toronto, I doubt it would've sparked the interest in myself. The genericness of "FC" is also the great unifier as well.

[CretanBull]

Yes, I do.

I was going to say haven't you ever been to the Point, but you said there aren't many Irish-specific neighbourhoods, not that there aren't any ;).

But I would doubt that the marketing of the Impact was as delibertely after an Italian community nod of approval, as you say. It may be happening, but wasn;t likely the intent. Their uniforms have Fleur de Lys, afterall, and the Quebec government has been a sposor so there's a Quebec flag on there. It seems like they were clearly out to become "Quebec's team," and they may be well on the way to doing that.

Even "the Point" is more and more becoming "Pointe Saint-Charles". The English there are still Irish and the pubs and that are still Irish but a lot of French people have moved into the area and it's also become a popular place for immigrants (who are forced to speak French).

As for the Impact, I do think that courting the Italian community was intentional. The end goal was selling the game to (French) Canadians so the Fleur de Lys etc. is to be expected, but getting support from the Italian community definitely played a big role in marketing the team to a wider audience. The USL is one step below MLS in terms of being a 'real' league, attracting Italian support is a way gaining credibility. If the Italian community said "this is shit" it would be a pretty hard sell to 3rd, 4th etc. Canadians. If they said "this is pretty good" it becomes a little easier to generate interest.

[TorCanSoc]

I am relatively new to soccer and supporting a team. If I'd happen upon a match on TV I'd watch. Then when the 06 world cup was on the go I started watching and was instantly hooked, that's when I learned of Canada getting a team in the MLS and have been a TFC supporter ever since!

This is weird to me. No offense intended. I don't think I've ever had an instaneous hook into another sport. Very cool though.

I was the Indian guy that had some game (ahem... two decades ago), took some of my Euro friends by surprise. But its everyone's game, truly is the world's game.

I followed the Lynx (attended a few games) but watched every game when it was on Cable-10, I think Ben Knight was the play by play guy for a while. Always a CMNT fan. TFC came, and it was a no brainer.