View Full Version : Sam Cronin article on Wikipedia
nfitz
02-08-2009, 12:28 AM
Great article - but someone seems to want it deleted - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Sam_Cronin
Shakes McQueen
02-08-2009, 12:38 AM
The Wikipedia caretakers are idiots.
- Scott
dantdot
02-08-2009, 01:15 AM
I created that article, that notice for deletion was literally put on the page a few minutes after it was made. Wikipedia has ridiculous rules, I can see why they don't want people making random articles, but a #2 draft pick, sorry, makes no fucking sense.
I win with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Curry_(basketball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Curry_%28basketball)) Refer to wiki for argument
rocker
02-08-2009, 08:33 AM
i added a comment in support of keeping it.
the Wiki Nazis really swoop in quickly eh? I think there are people on just love to delete stuff.
Lucky Strike
02-08-2009, 08:54 AM
i added a comment in support of keeping it.
the Wiki Nazis really swoop in quickly eh? I think there are people on just love to delete stuff.
That's why I don't edit there anymore. Too many idiots who have no clue what they're doing and discussing or having a debate with them is like slamming your head against a brick wall. All they care about is that their work gets on there and stays on, regardless of whether it's correct or not. Actually, I limit myself to editing this one page that's all about statistics so there's no debate: stats are stats.
rocker
02-08-2009, 09:19 AM
What i don't understand is why college basketball players get Wiki pages but then they want to delete Sam Cronin because he's not a professional?
Some guy wrote "there are different standards for soccer versus basketball" yet doesn't list any set-in-stone standards. And why would there be a difference between basketball and soccer in that regard? Sam Cronin played college soccer and was actually a finalist for some big awards, and he was a 2nd round draft pick. You know if there's some college basketball award finalist out there picked in the NBA draft 2nd round, he'll have a Wiki page even before he goes to training camp. And they accept that.
Chimed in with a wiki nazi comment.
egoodwin
02-08-2009, 10:20 AM
Same goes for the NEE wiki
Despite being an officially recognized SG, and featured in several media things, everytime one of us puts a NEE page up, this Ckatz cunt redirects it to the tfc fans page. Yet, they allow the non-official 115 ultras to have a page
rocker
02-08-2009, 11:28 AM
we need more people to go into the talk page and write this: '''Keep'''
plus a positive comment (try to be rational). The three marks before and after Keep make the word bold.
Kickit09
02-08-2009, 11:29 AM
the hypocrisy from the wiki nazis is making my brain hurt. cluboranje and jonbroxton are douchebag tools, not the only ones but probably the biggest ones. even wikipedia isnt safe from power trpping egotistical moderators, like most message boards. so many valid points why the cronin article should stay but i have no doubt it will be taken down.
rocker
02-08-2009, 11:53 AM
how come Sam Cronin can't have an article while this chump, who has never played professional, only amateur, does:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_DeMartin
nfitz
02-08-2009, 12:52 PM
Calling them Nazis, losers, douches, etc., while true, doesn't really help the cause - though does make me smile. Simply adding on the bottom, with something like "Clearly notable, per [[WP:N]]" or "it's wasting everyone's time by deleting this, as it's been made clear he'll be starting in a few weeks", or "He was the number 2 draft pick - that's notable enough" would go further.
dantdot
02-08-2009, 02:27 PM
That discussion page turned into a shitstorm but with some really gold comments :rofl: Anyways, people need to add *'''keep''' explanation here ~~~~ to the end of the article if you want to help.
Azerban
02-08-2009, 02:29 PM
Note: This discussion has been included in [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Football#Nominations for delSam Cronin was one of the most accomplished college athletes in his time there, and is now signed to a pro contract. He is much more deserving of a wiki page than some college basketball player who hasn't done jackshit, but you pigfucker wikinazis get off on doing this, so whatever.
rocker
02-08-2009, 02:45 PM
if they have to remove Cronin's wiki for some notoriety reason, I want Doug DeMartin's wiki removed too. At least apply your lame rules equally, Wikipedia assholes. Doug DeMartin hasn't played a pro match yet either chumps.
werewolf
02-08-2009, 03:31 PM
if it gets deleted, someone just start deleting every single page of an athlete who has never played professionally.
Cannon
02-08-2009, 03:50 PM
I added my .02
Lets hope the nazis dont win
I'd like to add a comment, but have no idea how to do so.
Help please!
rocker
02-08-2009, 04:37 PM
just go to the link at the top of this thread and click "edit this page" at the top. You'll get an editable screen with all the current comments.
go to the bottom and on a new line type three single quote marks, plus the word Keep, then three single quote marks, than type your comment. ''' Keep '''
dantdot
02-08-2009, 04:45 PM
For example, entering this in the edit box(should do it at the bottom):
*'''Keep''' this is a test ~~~~
will show this when you submit it:
*Keep this is a test yourusername (talk (http://a)) 14:40, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
We need some persuasive arguments, numbers won't do it.
nfitz
02-08-2009, 04:57 PM
The best persuasive article is that he is notable anyways, despite not playing yet. Either because of the number of media references (my point), or his position in the draft, or his achievements previously. If he's won awards, etc., that would help - I'm not aware really.
The best persuasive article is that he is notable anyways, despite not playing yet. Either because of the number of media references (my point), or his position in the draft, or his achievements previously. If he's won awards, etc., that would help - I'm not aware really.
I ncluded all of that in my comment.
Thanks for the help guys!
dantdot
02-08-2009, 05:14 PM
I ncluded all of that in my comment.
Thanks for the help guys!
Forgot the '''keep''', added it for you.
LOL - thanks. It was there originally, but by the time I was ready to save, someone else had posted. This created a conflict with wiki, and I copied my comment & resubmitted it - must have missed the beginning when I tried to copy.
Razcle
02-08-2009, 05:58 PM
KEEPSam was signed to a professional soccer contract with Toronto FC of the MLS as well as taken in the top 5 for the 2009 MLS Super draft. Even if he never plays a professional game (which he will due to the nature of soccer), he is considered a professional because he goes to work every day and earns a paycheque from a professional organization. I'm pretty sure that makes him a professional. Plus, you wiki-douch-bags should not be arguing stupid samantics about someone who already meets the requirements of being a professional, when pages are getting hacked all kinds on this site. You should be embracing writers that are expanding the great encyclopedia that this is. There are lots of people from the province of Ontario that are looking for valid info on this kid and this is supposed to be a place people can rely on to get that info. Stop being douche-bags. Thanks [Razcle]
Dont know if it will help. But I support it.
After looking at the criteria that they measure him by, I judged that there is a case that he qualifies under WP:FOOTYN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FOOTY/N).The 4th listed criteria states:
Pre-professional (amateur era) footballers to have played at the national level of league football are considered notable (no other level of amateur football confers notability). By being a finalist for the Hermann Trophy, and by being named NSCAA First Team All-American, he has been considered to be notable at the highest amature level. I added my comment, but the wiki mods removed my comment, saying I can't vote twice. They say it's a discussion of merit & not a democratic vote, so I'm having a tough time understanding why I can't add my voice twice.Anyway, I went back in and struck my first comment, and unstruck the second. I also added the fact tha Cronin now has his first assist after playing against the US Mens U-2o team yesterday. I'm afraid their going to undo my changes because I've broken some rule again, so it would be nice if someone who has not yet commented, added in their own words, thae point that I have made.
rocker
02-09-2009, 12:34 PM
i think that condition means players who played in the amateur era (century ago) not amateurs now.
Well that sucks! I missed that :(
dantdot
02-09-2009, 12:56 PM
We won! We've emerged from the steaming pile we call wikipedia - victorious, well done fellow wiki-warriors.
The result was keep. There was a lot of participation from new users in this debate, and quite a few WP:ILIKEIT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:ILIKEIT) or WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS) type arguments, which I discounted. However, no one rebutted the point made by Nfitz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Nfitz) - namely, the subject appears to meet (weakly) the general notability guideline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:GNG) by having significant coverage in independent reliable sources (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources). Given that, we don't even need to reach the issue of the sub-guidelines like WP:ATHLETE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:ATHLETE) or essays like WP:FOOTYN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FOOTYN). Xymmax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Xymmax) So let it be written (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Xymmax) So let it be done (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Xymmax) 17:28, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
rocker
02-09-2009, 01:03 PM
NFITZ is da man!
Sonny Cheeba
02-09-2009, 01:16 PM
this was my favourite "KEEP: You fucking douche canoes, hypocritical cocksuckers."
SweetOwnGoal
02-09-2009, 01:20 PM
What i don't understand is why college basketball players get Wiki pages but then they want to delete Sam Cronin because he's not a professional?
Some guy wrote "there are different standards for soccer versus basketball" yet doesn't list any set-in-stone standards. And why would there be a difference between basketball and soccer in that regard? Sam Cronin played college soccer and was actually a finalist for some big awards, and he was a 2nd round draft pick. You know if there's some college basketball award finalist out there picked in the NBA draft 2nd round, he'll have a Wiki page even before he goes to training camp. And they accept that.
I'm not sure why anyone really cars, but..
The NCAA is unquestionably the biggest feeder system in the world for professional basketball players. Europe is improving in this regard, but it's still mostly the NCAA.
NCAA soccer is a backwater in world soccer.
Yeah, I don't see the harm in a two inch factual Wiki post on Cronin, but he hasn't proven a damn thing yet and excitement about him should be tempered. He's a college player. He ain't gonna do much on the pitch this year.
werewolf
02-09-2009, 01:23 PM
NCAA basketball is the biggest feeder system for the highest level of professional basketball in North America.
NCAA soccer is the biggest feeder system for the highest level of professional soccer in North America.
nfitz
02-09-2009, 01:39 PM
I see someone has created an article for Kyle Hall. I expect that will be up for deletion soon ... and probably for good reason. I don't think there's been any indication of Kyle playing with the team anytime soon.
SweetOwnGoal
02-09-2009, 01:41 PM
NCAA basketball is the biggest feeder system for the highest level of professional basketball in North America.
NCAA soccer is the biggest feeder system for the highest level of professional soccer in North America.
The NBA is the undisputed best basketball league in the world
MLS is about the 20th best league in the world. Additionally, it's disputable that the NCAA is even the biggest feeder system into the league (for example seven of 22 -- 26 if you count those on trial -- players currently in TFC camp come from the NCAA.
rocker
02-09-2009, 01:48 PM
I'm not sure why anyone really cars, but..
The NCAA is unquestionably the biggest feeder system in the world for professional basketball players. Europe is improving in this regard, but it's still mostly the NCAA.
NCAA soccer is a backwater in world soccer.
Yeah, I don't see the harm in a two inch factual Wiki post on Cronin, but he hasn't proven a damn thing yet and excitement about him should be tempered. He's a college player. He ain't gonna do much on the pitch this year.
But the point is moot when there are basketball players with wikipedia pages who are in college but who have not even been drafted into the NBA. They haven't exhibited any evidence yet of being a part of that "feeder system." They are just college players.
Even if the NBA is the greatest league and college feeds that league, an undrafted college player does not meet the same standard as Sam Cronin, who was drafted from college and has signed a professional contract, and who has played a game with the team already. Funnily enough, if he gets 1 single regular season game he's suddenly got "notoriety" according to wikipedia ;)
I think the whole "notoriety" element of Wikipedia is very subjective because notoriety only occurs within a community. Is that community the "world", is it the community of US soccer fans? MLS fans? TFC fans? my highschool?
In the community of MLS, for example, Sam Cronin is well known, having been a heavily scouted and highly rated player (by insiders and the press). I think the problem with wikipedia soccer players is the world's game generally doesn't involve feeding players from college. So the Wikipedia footy notoriety rule is biased towards countries without a college feeder system. They look down upon it.
dantdot
02-09-2009, 01:57 PM
I see someone has created an article for Kyle Hall. I expect that will be up for deletion soon ... and probably for good reason. I don't think there's been any indication of Kyle playing with the team anytime soon.
That JonBroxton is such a dick. Might have an argument for "significant coverage in independent reliable sources."
Edit: Nevermind, that's a lost cause.
Razcle
02-10-2009, 02:44 AM
Good investigative work Fitz. Who is creating these player pages? and why do they insist to do it now when they can wait a month and have no issues. I bet they get a hoot out of challening the Wiki Nazis
Bender
02-10-2009, 04:41 AM
Just delete every page on wikipedia.
nfitz
02-10-2009, 09:24 AM
Good investigative work Fitz. Who is creating these player pages? and why do they insist to do it now when they can wait a month and have no issues. I bet they get a hoot out of challening the Wiki NazisI don't see any need to wait for really obvious cases - like the number 2 draft pick. Or even the number 4 pick - who I'd thought would have qualifed given he won the Hermann trophy - though perhaps waiting out his injury might make sense.
I don't see a lot of point creating them ... but I see even less point deleting them!
dantdot
02-10-2009, 01:11 PM
I don't see any need to wait for really obvious cases - like the number 2 draft pick. Or even the number 4 pick - who I'd thought would have qualifed given he won the Hermann trophy - though perhaps waiting out his injury might make sense.
I don't see a lot of point creating them ... but I see even less point deleting them!
I might make an O'brian White page just to mess with them, but really, there shouldn't be a problem with that one.
dantdot
02-10-2009, 02:37 PM
I made a quick O'brian White article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Brian_White
It's missing his Jamaica international stuff and other things but good enough for a start.
Just delete every page on wikipedia.
We should start deleting the rules pages if we can. OR delete everything related to the columbus crew due to their lack of an acceptable club.
Cannon
02-11-2009, 06:23 PM
JonBroxton's reign as the token wiki nazi continues ... O'Brian White's page is up for deletion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/O%27Brian_White
T_Mizz
02-11-2009, 06:26 PM
and Kyle Hall too
oxygenatedbrain
02-11-2009, 06:26 PM
Is there a JonBroxton page...
dantdot
02-11-2009, 06:34 PM
No point worrying about the O'Brian White page, no chance it'll be deleted.
I commented for good reason.
ccopela
02-11-2009, 07:28 PM
No point worrying about the O'Brian White page, no chance it'll be deleted.
Why? he hasn't played professionally either
dantdot
02-11-2009, 07:33 PM
Why? he hasn't played professionally either
Yeah, same thing happened with Cronin and we won it because he still meets the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:GNG#General_notability_guideline
JonBroxton should still get shit for not reading the article at all and in general being an asshat.
ccopela
02-11-2009, 09:03 PM
my apologies
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