Help Ottawa vote for MLS Soccer.

[tfcmanu]

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</STRONG>The Ottawa Sun ran a front page story and editorial today regarding the debate between our proposed soccer stadium and the CFL group's proposal to renovate Lansdowne Park.
The SUN is running an online poll right now. What is more important? MLS soccer, CFL football or outdoor stadium.
Please take a minute at the following link and vote. It will take less than a minute.
Please forward the link to your soccer loving friends and contacts encouraging them to vote as well.
http://www.ottawasun.com/News/poll_results.html (http://www2.ottawasenators.com/frontEndComponents/genericComponents/newsletterTrackLink.cfm?linkID=280836&newsletterID=4888&memberID=4893826&format=HTML)
Thank you,
Senators Sports & Entertainment

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[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

Cfl...has failed TIme after TIMe!!!....

Honestly...I dont think MLS would survive either.....they cant even give away tickets to the sens anymore!

This is a disaster in the making!


MLS should be focusing...on Vancouver...and MOntreal

[werewolf]

It may be a disaster, but if Ottawa gets a team, it lessens the chance of Montreal even further. :D

[Alarius]

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</STRONG>The Ottawa Sun ran a front page story and editorial today regarding the debate between our proposed soccer stadium and the CFL group's proposal to renovate Lansdowne Park.
The SUN is running an online poll right now. What is more important? MLS soccer, CFL football or outdoor stadium.
Please take a minute at the following link and vote. It will take less than a minute.
Please forward the link to your soccer loving friends and contacts encouraging them to vote as well.
http://www.ottawasun.com/News/poll_results.html (http://www2.ottawasenators.com/frontEndComponents/genericComponents/newsletterTrackLink.cfm?linkID=280836&newsletterID=4888&memberID=4893826&format=HTML)
Thank you,
Senators Sports & Entertainment

About This E-mail

You are receiving this notification because you have registered at the Bring the World to Ottawa page on www.bringtheworldtoottawa.ca/ (http://www2.ottawasenators.com/frontEndComponents/genericComponents/newsletterTrackLink.cfm?linkID=280837&newsletterID=4888&memberID=4893826&format=HTML). To stop receiving Bring the World to Ottawa updates and notification emails please click on unsubscribe (http://senators.nhl.com/fanzone/EditunsInsider.htm?URL=http://www2.ottawasenators.com/eng/Insider/redirect.cfm?nlType=13&sectionID=newsletter/newsletterUnsubscribeFromEmail.cfm&catID=434&mID=4893826&email=mamaral@dwpv.com&nID=4888). Please note that this will only unsubscribe you from this specific “type” of email. To remove yourself from ALL Sens mailing lists or to manage your profile, please login into your account here (http://www2.ottawasenators.com/frontEndComponents/genericComponents/newsletterTrackLink.cfm?linkID=280838&newsletterID=4888&memberID=4893826&format=HTML). Was this email forwarded to you? Sign-up to get your own free (http://www2.ottawasenators.com/frontEndComponents/genericComponents/newsletterTrackLink.cfm?linkID=280838&newsletterID=4888&memberID=4893826&format=HTML) copy and you'll always have the latest news.
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To read our privacy policy, click here. (http://senators.nhl.com/team/app/?service=page&page=NHLPage&id=11970)

http://www.ottawasun.com/News/poll_results.html

..no..:hump:

[nascarguy]

fuck MOntreal.. ottawa a better soccer city

Which is most important for the city to have?Major-league soccerhttp://www.torontosun.com/Images/percentbar.gif 48%CFL footballhttp://www.torontosun.com/Images/percentbar.gif 31%

[joel]

Ahh an online newspaper poll, that should take care of public opinion!

[H Bomb]

fuck MOntreal.. ottawa a better soccer city

the only thing Ottawa is better than Montreal at is being boring.

Who cares if Ottawa gets a team.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

I'd rather have Montreal over Ottawa....

But, it seems that Saputo and Gilette have fucked that up....

In a perfect world, i'd love to have both cities...

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Cfl...has failed TIme after TIMe!!!....

Honestly...I dont think MLS would survive either.....they cant even give away tickets to the sens anymore!

This is a disaster in the making!


MLS should be focusing...on Vancouver...and MOntreal


Montreal and Vanocuver?/ Montreal f**ked their chance and should not be allowed consideration for at least a decade...Vancouver Can't get a SSS and MLS should say NO to BC Place and the Caps until a SSS is started on then maybe?? consider Vancouver but not till then.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

fuck MOntreal.. ottawa a better soccer city

Which is most important for the city to have?Major-league soccerhttp://www.torontosun.com/Images/percentbar.gif 48%CFL footballhttp://www.torontosun.com/Images/percentbar.gif 31%


Montreal is a minor league city..nothing else.

[anto7]

the only thing Ottawa is better than Montreal at is being boring.

Who cares if Ottawa gets a team.
Wow, such an intelligent comment there buddy.
Ever stop to think that another Canadian team in the MLS may be a good thing for soccer in this country ? !!

[james]

I think Ottawa could do ok supporting a MLS team, they might beable to get 20,000 fans a game. Tickets just would deffinitly have to be the same price or even less then TFC ticekts are.

However Ottawa being successful in MLS is a gamble, compared to Montreal and Vancouver who are pretty much a sure thing. Im still mad Montreal backed out of the whole bid thing, they deserve to be in MLS more then any other city.

[egoodwin]

ottawa has the market, and if you want to dirty it up you can cross into hull

[Lucky Strike]

I voted for MLS, if only so I see TFC more often.

[Cashcleaner]

I got the email at 7:15 pm and the poll was showing exactly 50% for soccer, 30% for CFL, and 20% for concert.

I think this could actually be quite an indicator for support in Ottawa. The debate got on the front page and took up quite a bit of the editorial section. It wasn't just relegated to the sports pages like you'd expect, so I'm betting it got quite a bit of exposure.

[rocker]

I wanted Montreal over all others, so we could kick the crap outta them more often.

Vancouver is my second choice.

but if Ottawa can bribe their way in, why not? Another hated enemy for us. And I'll hate them more than San Jose or Kansas City. Surely they can get 10000-12000 fans like some teams already in the league. If it fails, then Ottawa is left with a nice tidy little stadium for the USL!

[Razcle]

If you want to gauge an idea of the actual support, we cannot hijack this poll. By getting everyone to vote for this will skew the support towards soccer and will not let anyone see which is more popular for the people in Ottawa

[RedsYNWA]

voted

[BakaGaijin]

If you want to gauge an idea of the actual support, we cannot hijack this poll. By getting everyone to vote for this will skew the support towards soccer and will not let anyone see which is more popular for the people in Ottawa

Most people are fucking lemmings. They need to be told what to think. We are simply re-educating them. They are now being told that they prefer soccer to the CFL. They will accept this and embrace their new love.

[H Bomb]

Wow, such an intelligent comment there buddy.
Ever stop to think that another Canadian team in the MLS may be a good thing for soccer in this country ? !!

another canadian team is a viable market would be good for Canada. But Ottawa had a history of sporting failures...largely because it's not that big a city in the middle of nowhere with no sporting history. CFL is a constant failure and the Sens have gone bankrupt already in there 16 year history...simply putting a team in Canada and thinking its good because it's within the smae massive border as us doesn't help anyone. Put it in a city that loves sport, Montreal have proven itself to be that, Vancouver to a lesser extent.

[H Bomb]

Most people are fucking lemmings. They need to be told what to think. We are simply re-educating them. They are now being told that they prefer soccer to the CFL. They will accept this and embrace their new love.

like they embrace CFL again, and again, and again?

Seriously though, who's been to Ottawa....it's teerrrrrrible.

[nascarguy]

Major-league soccerhttp://www.torontosun.com/Images/percentbar.gif 51%
CFL footballhttp://www.torontosun.com/Images/percentbar.gif 29% cfl sucks ass
Outdoor concert venuehttp://www.torontosun.com/Images/percentbar.gif 19%

[djking2]

Unfortunately Melnyks plan is for a new stadium out in Kanata by the arena. It is my humble opinion that Lansdowne Park downtown would have a better chance of creating the type of success we have here in Toronto.

[egoodwin]

another canadian team is a viable market would be good for Canada. But Ottawa had a history of sporting failures...largely because it's not that big a city in the middle of nowhere with no sporting history. CFL is a constant failure and the Sens have gone bankrupt already in there 16 year history...simply putting a team in Canada and thinking its good because it's within the smae massive border as us doesn't help anyone. Put it in a city that loves sport, Montreal have proven itself to be that, Vancouver to a lesser extent.
oh yeah, just ask the Expos just how much of a sport loving city Montreal is

[anto7]

another canadian team is a viable market would be good for Canada. But Ottawa had a history of sporting failures...largely because it's not that big a city in the middle of nowhere with no sporting history. CFL is a constant failure and the Sens have gone bankrupt already in there 16 year history...simply putting a team in Canada and thinking its good because it's within the smae massive border as us doesn't help anyone. Put it in a city that loves sport, Montreal have proven itself to be that, Vancouver to a lesser extent.
The point that you make in this reply is a good one and I agree that we do not want another Canadian team just for the sake of it. I do think however that there is a very large and continually growing soccer culture in the Ottawa area and perhaps drawing comparisons to the CFL and the Sens may not be apples to apples.
Not caring if they get a team just because you find the city boring is not a very good reason but stating your concern regarding recent sporting failures in the city is more of a valid argument.

[BakaGaijin]

like they embrace CFL again, and again, and again?

Seriously though, who's been to Ottawa....it's teerrrrrrible.

I don't mind Ottawa. It's a nice place to visit......

It's definately not a 'big city' if that's what you mean. I like the fact that you can have a nice house on the river 20 minutes outside of downtown. It's kinda like living at a nice cottage close to a city.

[H Bomb]

Unfortunately Melnyks plan is for a new stadium out in Kanata by the arena. It is my humble opinion that Lansdowne Park downtown would have a better chance of creating the type of success we have here in Toronto.

exactly...with this plan they'd be no better than the New Jersey Red Bull or FC Frisco. You cant have a grass roots program in an area with no people. It's trying to attach the north american model to footy, and I dont believe that will ever really succeed. Footy is a local game.

[billyfly]

I would really love to hate Ottawa. (there's that word hate again...)

[H Bomb]

^^ that's another one for me. I couldn't care about hating Ottawa. The senators have good reason to hate Toronto but from where I sit I hope to play them every chance we get. I hate Montreal, because the two cities have a history of winning, and sometimes winning at the cost of the other. The Ottawa rivalry is all fine and nice but it's a passing fancy right now. I just don't consider Ottawa a big deal at all. If it wasn't the Capital it'd be like saying Hamilton should have an MLS team...and it shouldn't.

[rocker]

Ottawa's stadium would definitely be on the outer edge of acceptable distance... although not far from the same distance of many recent SSS's. I just did a little comparison of MLS stadiums and the distance to their city's downtown.. this is what I get, with some comparisons to Toronto area distances:

SEA --- 3 km
TFC --- 4 km
DCU --- 5 km
HOU --- 6 km (robertson stadium.. but if they build the new stadium, they'd be #1 in shortest distance)
CBS --- 7 km
SAN --- 8 km
COL -- 15 km

Downtown toronto to hghway 427 = 15.6km

NY -- 19 km (this is the harrison stadium site distance)
RSL -- 24 km
CHI -- 25 km
KAC -- 25 km (this is to new bannister mall site)
LAG -- 27 km
OTT -- 28 km (Kanata site, but Lansdowne park site would be only 2.8 km from downtown)
PHI -- 30 km (Chester.. ugh)

Downtown Toronto to Oakville/Miss Border = 30.3km

DAL -- 44 km
NE -- 47 km

Downtown Toronto to Burloak Drive Burlington - 48km

I was surprised about Houston.. I thought Robertson Stadium was in a suburb but it's really close. Colorado's is closer than people give it credit. RSL's is much futher than I expected... only 4 KM shorter distance than the Kanata Ottawa stadium.

[Cuchulain]

Montreal supports winning teams only. I would rather see Vancouver get a team. But if Ottawa is our best chance for success then I'll help out by voting.

[H Bomb]

most every city in the world "only supports winning teams" Toronto is no different there. Montreal has TFCesque support for their CFL team and naturally do a great job with hockey. It's one of if not the best sports city in the country for my money.

[Maple Leaf Red]

most every city in the world "only supports winning teams" Toronto is no different there. Montreal has TFCesque support for their CFL team and naturally do a great job with hockey. It's one of if not the best sports city in the country for my money.
It's true. Vancouver fans are notorious front-runners as are ottawa fans and Montreal fans.

The only exceptions are the Leafs and the Habs and only beacuse of the history of the clubs.

[Bender]

In a perfect world Ottawa, Vancouver & Montreal would have gotten teams. The more Canadian clubs the better IMO.

[rocktml]

help ottawa hm................

[Redcoe15]

Just got this e-mail from Ottawa:


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</STRONG>The Ottawa Sun ran a front page story and editorial today regarding the debate between our proposed soccer stadium and the CFL group's proposal to renovate Lansdowne Park.
The SUN is running an online poll right now. What is more important? MLS soccer, CFL football or outdoor stadium.
Please take a minute at the following link and vote. It will take less than a minute.
Please forward the link to your soccer loving friends and contacts encouraging them to vote as well.
http://www.ottawasun.com/News/poll_results.html (http://www2.ottawasenators.com/frontEndComponents/genericComponents/newsletterTrackLink.cfm?linkID=280836&newsletterID=4888&memberID=4893826&format=HTML)
Thank you,
Senators Sports & Entertainment

About This E-mail

You are receiving this notification because you have registered at the Bring the World to Ottawa page on www.bringtheworldtoottawa.ca/ (http://www2.ottawasenators.com/frontEndComponents/genericComponents/newsletterTrackLink.cfm?linkID=280837&newsletterID=4888&memberID=4893826&format=HTML). To stop receiving Bring the World to Ottawa updates and notification emails please click on unsubscribe (http://senators.nhl.com/fanzone/EditunsInsider.htm?URL=http://www2.ottawasenators.com/eng/Insider/redirect.cfm?nlType=13&sectionID=newsletter/newsletterUnsubscribeFromEmail.cfm&catID=434&mID=4893826&email=mamaral@dwpv.com&nID=4888). Please note that this will only unsubscribe you from this specific “type” of email. To remove yourself from ALL Sens mailing lists or to manage your profile, please login into your account here (http://www2.ottawasenators.com/frontEndComponents/genericComponents/newsletterTrackLink.cfm?linkID=280838&newsletterID=4888&memberID=4893826&format=HTML). Was this email forwarded to you? Sign-up to get your own free (http://www2.ottawasenators.com/frontEndComponents/genericComponents/newsletterTrackLink.cfm?linkID=280838&newsletterID=4888&memberID=4893826&format=HTML) copy and you'll always have the latest news.
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http://www.ottawasun.com/News/poll_results.html

I got yer vote right here: :dita:

[Waggy]

Look. While a second canadian team would be great for soccer in this country, a team that fails could be disasterous. No sport in Ottawa has ever had longevity. Montreal doesn't have a steller history outside of hockey either, but at least they already HAVE the impact and their fans and stadium. At least theres a chance of success. Ottawa getting a team and folding after 3 years does more harm then good to all of us

[nascarguy]

guys you sound like the guys who said that tfc would never last this long. Just becuse the CFL did not do good there does not mean a mls tean will not take off just as good as it did in toronto.


i vote for a mls but you know with the mls team come a Outdoor concert venue just like they do at bmo

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I cant honestly say that i can vote for Ottawa in good conscience

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Hbomb, for the record, is killing this thread (in a good way, ie hes making some great points and hilarious statements)

[Luanda]

oh yeah, just ask the Expos just how much of a sport loving city Montreal is

After the honeymoon was over and the Expos failed to turn into winners, even the move to the Big O could not help them.

As I said earlier in another post, Montrealers love winners. But if you do not win big, you lose bit time too.

And common folks, Ottawa less boring than Montreal??????????? Wonder where people have been to either in Montreal or in other to substantiate such an assertion.

[Waggy]

I mentioned it before, its not just the cfl. Off hte top of my head these are the Ottawa sports teams that folded in the past 15 years

Rough Riders
Renegades
Lynx (a real shame that one)
Ottawa Rebels

Thats Canadian Football, baseball, lacross. Does that mean soccer will fail there? No, but its not exactly something to be optimistic about when you consider they don't have any established soccer team there, a stadium or a history of supporting ANY sports (the Senators draw well when winning. Otherwise, just when the Leafs or Habs show up. Lets not forget they folded once already and weren't exactly the first Canadian city the NHL expanded to). Montreal may only support winners, but Toronto traditionally does too. TFC manages fine. Montreal and Vancouver both already have successful teams, stadiums and fans. And not NEARLY as much baggage as the city of Ottawa. Look at the rebirth of the Al's in Montreal.

And to compare the social life or boringness of Ottawa and Montreal is like a beauty contest between Enza the supermodel and Eva Mendez. I mean seriously. Ottawa?! What are you people smoking! I LOVE Toronto, but we all know Montreal is the nightlife capital of Canada. Maybe North America (Cancun excluded. And South Beach)

[ExiledRed]

I mentioned it before, its not just the cfl. Off hte top of my head these are the Ottawa sports teams that folded in the past 15 years

Rough Riders
Renegades
Lynx (a real shame that one)
Ottawa Rebels

Thats Canadian Football, baseball, lacross. Does that mean soccer will fail there? No, but its not exactly something to be optimistic about when you consider they don't have any established soccer team there, a stadium or a history of supporting ANY sports (the Senators draw well when winning. Otherwise, just when the Leafs or Habs show up. Lets not forget they folded once already and weren't exactly the first Canadian city the NHL expanded to). Montreal may only support winners, but Toronto traditionally does too. TFC manages fine. Montreal and Vancouver both already have successful teams, stadiums and fans. And not NEARLY as much baggage as the city of Ottawa. Look at the rebirth of the Al's in Montreal.

And to compare the social life or boringness of Ottawa and Montreal is like a beauty contest between Enza the supermodel and Eva Mendez. I mean seriously. Ottawa?! What are you people smoking! I LOVE Toronto, but we all know Montreal is the nightlife capital of Canada. Maybe North America (Cancun excluded. And South Beach)


It's odd because, the reason many were saying Toronto was going to be a fail, was because they already had too many well supported teams.

Now, Ottawa will fail, because it doesnt have any.

Personally I think past performances and attendances of low level teams in any sport are irrelevant. It's about marketing, youth trends and product. Has anybody bothered, for instance to find out what kind of TV ratings the EPL (a fully realised product, as opposed to USL/PDL teams)gets in Ottawa?



If Toronto had worried about how well the Lynx were supported, there would be no TFC.

[ExiledRed]

guys you sound like the guys who said that tfc would never last this long. Just becuse the CFL did not do good there does not mean a mls tean will not take off just as good as it did in toronto.


i vote for a mls but you know with the mls team come a Outdoor concert venue just like they do at bmo

Let it be known on this day, February 7th, 2009

Nascarguy was 'Quoted For Truth'

[boban]

..they cant even give away tickets to the sens anymore!
Where do you get this utter nonsense from?

[Kooper]

The MLS in Ottawa has a better chance of long term success if they Build a CFL stadium down town and they play on a *gasp* a converted CFL stadium. Ben is right it is essential to have a stadium downtown especially for a team like Ottawa where the fan base may not be as dedicated as we are.

http://onwardsoccer.com/2009/01/27/by-the-banks-of-the-rideau/

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Another CFL team in Ottawa? Do these people never learn? It only took them a couple years to lose the last one, why do they think it'll be different with a third team?

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Where do you get this utter nonsense from?
'They can't give them away' is definitely an exaggeration, but Ottawa sports fans don't have such an amazing reputation... If you recall, back in the late nineties Sens attendance wasn't great, although part of it was because the Corel Centre was out in the 'burbs.

[Red Baron]

Ottawa could easily support an MLS team.
http://www.ottawasun.com/News/Columnists/Robinson_Walter/2009/02/04/8259601-sun.html

[Blazer]

It’s more important that Ottawa get itself situated back and healthy in the CFL where they belong before broadening it’s sporting umbrella into MLS. The CFL needs Ottawa before MLS does.

[rocker]

Ottawa could easily support an MLS team.
http://www.ottawasun.com/News/Columnists/Robinson_Walter/2009/02/04/8259601-sun.html

wow. that's a shockingly supportive column coming from the mainstream media.

[london_tfc_fan]

Cfl...has failed TIme after TIMe!!!....

Honestly...I dont think MLS would survive either.....they cant even give away tickets to the sens anymore!

This is a disaster in the making!


MLS should be focusing...on Vancouver...and MOntreal

are u on crack the sens still got 17 plus thousand every game bro! and true CFL was a bust but really the gridiron game has to be one of the most boring things to watch so i dont blame them for not giving 2 shits! as for MLS maybe it wont work maybe it will but its better than trying a place like Miami where they've already failed once before

[boban]

'They can't give them away' is definitely an exaggeration, but Ottawa sports fans don't have such an amazing reputation... If you recall, back in the late nineties Sens attendance wasn't great, although part of it was because the Corel Centre was out in the 'burbs.
They have a better rep than Toronto fans.
Under Briden the team was great but attendance for the lesser draw teams could be better. More than a part of that was the financial soap opera that was surrounding the team at the time. The team that past 5/6 seasons has consistenly oversold their arena. Even with the team being shit this year they are sold old. They are in the top 5 or so in attendence in the league. Factor in Ottawa region supports minor hockey way more than Torontonians do, saying they don't have a good rep is just ignorance without looking at the facts.
Pre TFC years the Lynx barely had 800-1000 people show up to thir games, yet they were award a MLS franchise.
It's ok, I won't look when you and REN_Nation pull your feet out of your mouths. ;)

[tfcmanu]

are u on crack the sens still got 17 plus thousand every game bro! and true CFL was a bust but really the gridiron game has to be one of the most boring things to watch so i dont blame them for not giving 2 shits! as for MLS maybe it wont work maybe it will but its better than trying a place like Miami where they've already failed once before

If mLs does not work you can always put a CFL team in that same stadium!

[Blazer]

Ottawa could easily support an MLS team.
http://www.ottawasun.com/News/Columnists/Robinson_Walter/2009/02/04/8259601-sun.html

Ottawa can support a team but only if there is almost immediate and ongoing success. This is not a city of sports fanatics, instead we are fanatical about our teams. If a SSP stadium is built at Lebretton flats where the Pladium (now Scotiabank Place) should have been built, Ottawa could support a team almost certainly. Anywhere else that is not easily serviceable by public transit would be a failure.

[boban]

Ottawa could easily support an MLS team.
http://www.ottawasun.com/News/Columnists/Robinson_Walter/2009/02/04/8259601-sun.html
Guy makes a pretty good case.
I love the CFl also, but it's hard to argue with the facts he brings out on pointy ball football in the capital region. It's dying and no one cares. Soccer in Ottawa at least has a chance.

[Blazer]

Ottawa didn't fail in the CFL. The CFL and a poor ownership group failed Ottawa - twice!

[boban]

Ottawa didn't fail in the CFL. The CFL and a poor ownership group failed Ottawa - twice!
Blah Blah blah.
Fact is if enough people were coming to the games, revenue streams would have been enough to at least attract a new buyer. It didn't.

[SoccMan]

The more I look at this the more it makes sense. The CFL has tried and failed in Ottawa, it's time to try something different. Sure, the CFL gets better numbers hands down on TV over MLS soccer, however, in the stands in Ottawa the past few franchises have not got enough bums in the seats to sustain a CFL franchise in Ottawa. The cost to run a CFL franchise is so much greater then running an MLS team, this is why I think an MLS team would sustain itself much easier then a CFL franchise in Ottawa. I would not be surprised to see the season ticket numbers be pretty close to TFC's numbers if Ottawa got a team. The times they are a changing and soccer is slowly but surely gaining a footprint here in the great white north.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

They have a better rep than Toronto fans.
Under Briden the team was great but attendance for the lesser draw teams could be better. More than a part of that was the financial soap opera that was surrounding the team at the time. The team that past 5/6 seasons has consistenly oversold their arena. Even with the team being shit this year they are sold old. They are in the top 5 or so in attendence in the league. Factor in Ottawa region supports minor hockey way more than Torontonians do, saying they don't have a good rep is just ignorance without looking at the facts.
Pre TFC years the Lynx barely had 800-1000 people show up to thir games, yet they were award a MLS franchise.
It's ok, I won't look when you and REN_Nation pull your feet out of your mouths. ;)
The Lynx played at essentially a high school field in Etobicoke, I didn't even know they existed until about 4 years ago FFS.

The Leafs sold out every single home game from about 1980-2003, we may be lemmings, but we're dedicated lemmings. Montreal fans were well known in the 1970s for waiting for the deciding games in playoff series to show up, early games in a series would often be played in front of a half-empty Forum. People in Montreal don't love hockey, they love the Montreal Canadiens. Ask a Montreal fan when hockey as a sport was at it's best, and they'll tell you the periods in which the Habs were good were awesome, and the periods in which they weren't good sucked.

As for minor hockey, there is no longer a team in the city of Toronto, unless you count the Leafs' reserve team, the Marlies. Minor hockey in Toronto died along with the reserve clause in the late 1960s, the attraction of it used to be that you were watching the future Leafs, and the popularity of the Marlies and Majors used to rival that of the Leafs themselves. Don't confuse Toronto with Brampton and Mississauga, who indeed don't know how to support a hockey team.

[boban]

The Lynx played at essentially a high school field in Etobicoke, I didn't even know they existed until about 4 years ago FFS.

The Leafs sold out every single home game from about 1980-2003, we may be lemmings, but we're dedicated lemmings. Montreal fans were well known in the 1970s for waiting for the deciding games in playoff series to show up, early games in a series would often be played in front of a half-empty Forum.

As for minor hockey, there is no longer a team in the city of Toronto, unless you count the Leafs' reserve team, the Marlies. Minor hockey in Toronto died along with the reserve clause in the late 1960s, the attraction of it used to be that you were watching the future Leafs, and the popularity of the Marlies and Majors used to rival that of the Leafs themselves. Don't confuse Toronto with Brampton and Mississauga, who indeed don't know how to support a hockey team.
Gatinaeu is not in Ottawa but they come out and support their minor team. Listen its the region that we are talking about here. Everyone knows that. Without Mississauga/Brampton/Vaughan/Pickering etc. the Argos would not survive and don't fool yourself into thinking that the NSS would be anything close to a sell out for TFC games.
If Mississauga and Brampton don't know how to support a hockey team, then what do you call Toronto with the loss of the Majors and Marlies loosing money like a black hole? BTW, the Majors may be in Mississauga but they are still targeted/marketed to Toronto.
Toronto is a Leafs town, not a sports town. Look at the support the world Juniors just had in Ottawa - with 1/5 of Toronto's population base. Those crowds would not be as good if this tourney was held in Toronto.
And one last thing. Stop talking about the past. Its the present and the future that has to be dealt with. And presently Ottawa supports their teams (Sens, 67's, Olympique, Hockey World Juniors, U20 WC).

Edit: Almost forgot to add something :).
The Lynx played out of varsity to begin and the numbers were brutal there.
If there numbers were even half decent a home could have been found to host the fans. Don't use the excuse of Centennial Stadium for the disgusting attendance figures they had.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Way to write down a pile of words without addressing the issue at hand. Fox News Channel is looking for people like you.

Mississauga is not Toronto. Do you have any idea how big the GTA is? People are not going to drive for an hour to see a team that doesn't represent their city, and the only people who go to see the Battalion and "Mississauga St. Mike's" (quite possibly the worst example of cynical money-grabbing in the history of pro sports, affiliating yourself with a school in another city so you can pretend to be carrying on the tradition) Majors are hockey moms, which drives away the hardcore fans, like myself. I lived in Brampton until last year and hated the Battalion with a passion because of the kind of people who DID like them.

I consider myself a hockey fan more than a Leafs fan, and I'd never go to see the Marlies. Moving them to Toronto from St. John's, which supported the team remarkably well, was a cynical cash grab by Leaf management and totally screwed over the fans who supported the St. John's Maple Leafs for more than a decade. Had the Majors still been playing out of St. Michael's College Arena when I moved to Toronto, I'd probably have season's tickets.

See, in Toronto, aside from the Leafs it would seem, sticking a hockey team in the city doesn't necessarily mean people are going to go. It's like what happened with TFC, people sensed that this would be a 'real' football team, not your typical Canadian soccer mom hangout, and the fans latched on from day one.

TFC would definitely survive without the suburbs around Toronto. What you have to understand is that most males my age in Brampton and Mississauga think they're too cool to go to TFC games or support the national team. They go around wearing their Barca and Inter shirts, thinking they look proper hardcore, and really couldn't care less about any local teams. It's the suburbs, man, the douche look ( http://gotorontofc.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=3353&highlight=) is totally in here. I'm sure that the vast majority of TFC's support comes from the city of Toronto itself. As for the Lynx, as I said, few people knew they existed. The Whitecaps and Impact did a much better job of promoting themselves in their respective cities, and when you consider how many upstart soccer teams we've had in Toronto in the last 20 years, it shouldn't come as a shock that they never became a major draw in Toronto. The Whitecaps have been something of an institution in Vancouver for a very long time.

IIHF World Junior Championships would be a huge draw if they came to Brampton. The people here go nuts over youth hockey like you wouldn't believe. I really couldn't care less about it to be honest, these days I'm far more interested in the Spengler Cup and European hockey, but you know how it is, TSN get the rights to something and absolutely hype the shit out of it, and suddenly it's a major event.

[werewolf]

Toronto is a Leafs town, not a sports town.

Jays average around 30,000 and the Raptors are 9th in the league in attendance.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

Montreal and Vanocuver?/ Montreal f**ked their chance and should not be allowed consideration for at least a decade...Vancouver Can't get a SSS and MLS should say NO to BC Place and the Caps until a SSS is started on then maybe?? consider Vancouver but not till then.

Just like Seattle had a SSS in place?:noidea:...

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

Where do you get this utter nonsense from?


Sure there is exaggeration there...:D

But any team..especially teams in canada who have to offer there fans 35% off tickets..and $10 food vouchers On SATURDAY NIGHT GAMES....would seem to be struggling...no?..id love to know what they are offering on weeknight games...


I just believe....MLS would be making a huge mistake..taking a team over VANCOUVER ay this time!!...I know MOntreal has burned its bridge...and the hell with them anyway....but they would be a much better fit then Ottawa at this time also!......

When thats in place ....then we could talk about further expantion to ottawa

[Beach_Red]

I consider myself a hockey fan more than a Leafs fan, and I'd never go to see the Marlies.



Just curious, why not?

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

Jays average around 30,000 and the Raptors are 9th in the league in attendance.

Dont forget...the ROCK who draw well....Argo's...average..25000 to 30000...and of course TFC :)

[kodiakTFC]

Jays average around 30,000 and the Raptors are 9th in the league in attendance.

I checked, he is right.

[rocker]

toronto is a sports town... a PROFESSIONAL sports town. as long as yer a top league on the continent, you'll do well here.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Just curious, why not?
I dunno... I just don't have any interest in the AHL. If I lived in a small town where the AHL was the only league in town, I'd take more interest.

[james]

Ottawa's stadium would definitely be on the outer edge of acceptable distance... although not far from the same distance of many recent SSS's. I just did a little comparison of MLS stadiums and the distance to their city's downtown.. this is what I get, with some comparisons to Toronto area distances:

SEA --- 3 km
TFC --- 4 km
DCU --- 5 km
HOU --- 6 km (robertson stadium.. but if they build the new stadium, they'd be #1 in shortest distance)
CBS --- 7 km
SAN --- 8 km
COL -- 15 km

Downtown toronto to hghway 427 = 15.6km

NY -- 19 km (this is the harrison stadium site distance)
RSL -- 24 km
CHI -- 25 km
KAC -- 25 km (this is to new bannister mall site)
LAG -- 27 km
OTT -- 28 km (Kanata site, but Lansdowne park site would be only 2.8 km from downtown)
PHI -- 30 km (Chester.. ugh)

Downtown Toronto to Oakville/Miss Border = 30.3km

DAL -- 44 km
NE -- 47 km

Downtown Toronto to Burloak Drive Burlington - 48km

I was surprised about Houston.. I thought Robertson Stadium was in a suburb but it's really close. Colorado's is closer than people give it credit. RSL's is much futher than I expected... only 4 KM shorter distance than the Kanata Ottawa stadium.

Dallas is wayyyyyyyyyy the fuck out there, thats crazy no wonder they have no fans.

Colorado is alot closer to the city then i thought. Colorado i guess just aint a good soccer city.

Comparring the 427 being 15.6 km from downtown Toronto I think anythin further then maybe 15km from city center is a bit to far out for my likings.

[james]

Ottawa needs to play downtown thats forsure. Hockey fans will travel to the suburbs since Hoceky is and probably always will be the biggest sport in Canada. But i just dont see as many soccer fans wanting to travel to the suburbs on a norman basis. Kanata is the same distance as Oakville, thats to far for a smaller city like Ottawa.

[Canary Canuck]

What you have to understand is that most males my age in Brampton and Mississauga think they're too cool to go to TFC games or support the national team. They go around wearing their Barca and Inter shirts, thinking they look proper hardcore, and really couldn't care less about any local teams. It's the suburbs, man, the douche look ( http://gotorontofc.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=3353&highlight=)

It's so true. Snobbery among the douches in Brampton/Sauga is rampant. I love the portuguese wannabes with their 2 thousand dollar civics and gallon of hair product who wear porto and benfica gear and have never even seen either team play before in their lives.

[james]

It's so true. Snobbery among the douches in Brampton/Sauga is rampant. I love the portuguese wannabes with their 2 thousand dollar civics and gallon of hair product who wear porto and benfica gear and have never even seen either team play before in their lives.

ya but on game day i see a shit load of people get on and off at Oakville and Clarkson Go stops. I say those 2 stops fill that GO train every time on the West end. So there deffinitly is a big draw from the suburbs to.


Had TFC played in the Suburb tho i dont think many people would of took the team seriously, people in Toronto would see it as another amature team.

[GuelphStorm2007]

I still think Montreal will be in MLS someday by way of franchise Relocation. If Ottawa is smart they should renovate Landsdowne Staduim and have the team play there. Playing in Kanata would be dumb. As far as league expansion goes. Do not be surprised if you do not see any for a while. due to the economic situation.....

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

another canadian team is a viable market would be good for Canada. But Ottawa had a history of sporting failures...largely because it's not that big a city in the middle of nowhere with no sporting history. CFL is a constant failure and the Sens have gone bankrupt already in there 16 year history...simply putting a team in Canada and thinking its good because it's within the smae massive border as us doesn't help anyone. Put it in a city that loves sport, Montreal have proven itself to be that, Vancouver to a lesser extent.


Vancouver has a history of sporting failures.....NLL Ravens and the NBA Grizzlies.....Montreal...Expos (MLB) Express (NLL) Manic (NASL) so these markets aslo are poor

[rocker]

ya but on game day i see a shit load of people get on and off at Oakville and Clarkson Go stops.

Clarkson is the greatest! Clarkson is the source of all the best TFC fans :)
Just 20 minutes down the line.... :)

[WHITEY]

Vancouver has a history of sporting failures.....NLL Ravens and the NBA Grizzlies.....Montreal...Expos (MLB) Express (NLL) Manic (NASL) so these markets aslo are poor

Soccer has not failed in Vancouver. Being born and raised in the Vancouver area I can tell you that there will ever only be two sports ever supported in Vancouver; hockey and soccer. Soccer is played in Vancouver year round outdoors, not in doors, not under a bubble, outdoors. Soccer is huge in Vancouver at the grass roots level, if it happens, MLS will not fail in Vancouver.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

I'm not sure why some people insist on making this a Vancouver vs. Ottawa bid process. To be perfectly honest, I'd be happy if either city got an MLS team. Anything that promotes the growth of football in Canada is fine by me, and another top-flight team in this country couldn't hurt in that regard.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

Soccer has not failed in Vancouver. Being born and raised in the Vancouver area I can tell you that there will ever only be two sports ever supported in Vancouver; hockey and soccer. Soccer is played in Vancouver year round outdoors, not in doors, not under a bubble, outdoors. Soccer is huge in Vancouver at the grass roots level, if it happens, MLS will not fail in Vancouver.

The proliferation of football is certainly evident in Vancouver. The Whitecaps have a well-structured club from the academy level right up to their USL-1 first team. Perhaps one day MLS will see the benefit of this structure and allow its teams to actually sign some academy players.

[Blazer]

Blah Blah blah.
Fact is if enough people were coming to the games, revenue streams would have been enough to at least attract a new buyer. It didn't.

The Glieberman ownership group came back the second time to “make right” on their previous business bungle that saw the “Rough Riders” franchise fold. They screwed up again when they offered 2 for 1 ticket sales to kick off the “Renegades” franchise when they didn’t have to because they would have sold 20,000+ at regular price. It was done as a gesture of good-faithed apology to the fans after the initial bankruptcy.

Over 23,000 season tickets were sold but at half of the cost which saw them lose money again on a bad business decision. They got scared and ran outta town. Same story, Ottawa fans lose and the Dweeberman’s walk off into the sunset virtually unscathed.

Fans in this city deserve - and the CFL deserves, the Rough Riders back in Ottawa. Simple as that.

Toronto and Montreal need second teams as well. Followed by expansion to Halifax, Quebec City, Kitchener-Waterloo, and London.

But all this is off topic. :hump:

[WHITEY]

I'm not sure why some people insist on making this a Vancouver vs. Ottawa bid process. To be perfectly honest, I'd be happy if either city got an MLS team. Anything that promotes the growth of football in Canada is fine by me, and another top-flight team in this country couldn't hurt in that regard.

Agree with you totally. I just wanted to point out to the one guy that keeps on mentioning the failure of the Ravens and Grizzlies as his only argument as to why Vancouver should not get a MLS team but never mentions the fact that the Whitecaps and soccer in general have had very strong support in Vancouver.

[Blazer]

I don’t know enough about the city of Vancouver so I can not chime in but after listening to Don Taylor two weeks ago on PT Sports, the city is hockey retarded to the point where he doesn’t even know himself what the next biggest sport is. Unfortunately for Vancouver, they have a poor track record with professional sports. Not to suggest that football (soccer) couldn’t work but they’d surely be behind the eight ball early.

[WHITEY]

I don’t know enough about the city of Vancouver so I can not chime in but after listening to Don Taylor two weeks ago on PT Sports, the city is hockey retarded to the point where he doesn’t even know himself what the next biggest sport is. Unfortunately for Vancouver, they have a poor track record with professional sports. Not to suggest that football (soccer) couldn’t work but they’d surely be behind the eight ball early.

He's right about Vancouver being hockey crazy, but Don Taylor is another guy that doesn't give football (soocer) the time of day. There is no doubt the Canucks are number one in that city and always will be, but the Whitecaps have their own following and have had so for quite some time; enough of a following to maintian an MLS franchise.

[Blazer]

That’s cool to hear then. I think north American football sounds a lot better than USA football with one Canadian franchise.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

Agree with you totally. I just wanted to point out to the one guy that keeps on mentioning the failure of the Ravens and Grizzlies as his only argument as to why Vancouver should not get a MLS team but never mentions the fact that the Whitecaps and soccer in general have had very strong support in Vancouver.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the Ravens/Grizzlies folding argument. Toronto has had a plethora of actual footy teams that didn't work out, yet TFC is unquestionably rock-solid. Using non-footy teams to explain why MLS wouldn't work in a specific city is a weak argument at best.

[Waggy]

Again though, you guys are missing the point. The point isn't look at how many Ottawa teams failed, therefore any new team will fail. Its more the likelyhood. Of every team that expands to Toronto, the only ones that have left are the Huskies (if you can even count that. And incidentally, Raps TV showed an all-star game from the 1970s where they said toronto was next in line for a franchise. It took 25 years from then still), the Lynx and the other assorted minor soccer teams. And thats exactly why they folded. As someone mentioned, they were "minor".

Not pro sports. Not the best. Toronto is all about the BEST. Why would we watch the Marlies, instead of the Leafs/Raptors/Rock/TFC/Jays/Argos (yes yes, I count them. You don't like it: same logic says TFC doesn't count either. best league in the country,not the world), who are in the top rung? I understand why AHL teams succeed in other places, but it was insane to think they'd succeed here.

Ottawa has a history of TERRIBLE ownership. Of terrible business ideas. Of somewhat shaky fan support. Not a few. Not even 50%. Like a solid 80-90% failure rate. If its the CFL group that gets the bid, as a CFL fan, I don't mind taking that risk. As a soccer fan, I think an MLS team being awarded to Ottawa and subsequently having to fold would put back EVERY future Canadian bid for quite some time. The penalty for failure will be much higher. Thats why taking the safer route for now is better. Remember: The arguments for MLS in Ottawa are the same ones that were made for bringing the NLL to Ottawa, and they already had a facility. And don't tell me its different because of Ottawa's minor soccer program. Thats crap. Soccers the most played sport in Canada and the US. It means Soccers the 5th or 6th biggest pro sport. It isnt the 10 year olds and soccer moms who support TFC. And if you're counting on those people to replicate what we have at TFC, then you're delusional

[rocker]

As a soccer fan, I think an MLS team being awarded to Ottawa and subsequently having to fold would put back EVERY future Canadian bid for quite some time. The penalty for failure will be much higher. Thats why taking the safer route for now is better.

What bids will be pushed back if Ottawa fails?
Even if Ottawa gets in, Vancouver will get in soon too (I think Vancouver would get in before Ottawa actually). But if they got in first, by the time Ottawa proved to be a bad choice, Vancouver would be in too. Montreal is out, but if they beg and hand the full cheque, they'll get in someday.
Miami failed before but they are getting a second look, so if Ottawa failed it wouldn't affect Canada's chances for more teams.

Whatever happens in Ottawa will have no effect on Montreal or Vancouver.

So what other future Canadian city would suddenly have its bid pushed back because Ottawa makes Canada look bad in the event of failure? Nobody. Calgary, Edmonton, etc are never going to get MLS teams so it doesn't matter.

Even if Ottawa gets into the league it's not gonna be re-located in 1 or 2 seasons. The way MLS shares money, even the shittiest of shitty teams in craphole stadiums can survive.

MLS reduces the risk of Ottawa. If an American city the size of Ottawa (Salt Lake) can get a team and get nice attendances, whose to say Ottawa is riskier?

I say the risk isn't that bad, and if it fails at least we found out Ottawa is a bad market. But what if they take the risk and Ottawa becomes another Toronto, with 20000 a game attendances? Then Canadian soccer gets a big boost.

Originally Montreal was my #1, but Saputo let me down, so I hate Montreal more now. Vancouver is now my #1. I'm pretty sure they will get in. Ottawa would be nice. I'd rather see Ottawa than Portland or some other US city I'll never visit and don't care about. :)

[tfcmanu]

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</STRONG>The Ottawa Sun ran a front page story and editorial today regarding the debate between our proposed soccer stadium and the CFL group's proposal to renovate Lansdowne Park.
The SUN is running an online poll right now. What is more important? MLS soccer, CFL football or outdoor stadium.
Please take a minute at the following link and vote. It will take less than a minute.
Please forward the link to your soccer loving friends and contacts encouraging them to vote as well.
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http://www.ottawasun.com/News/poll_results.html

The Results...Ottawa prefers MLS!

2009-02-06
Which is most important for the city to have?

Major-league soccerhttp://www.torontosun.com/Images/percentbar.gif 53%

CFL footballhttp://www.torontosun.com/Images/percentbar.gif 28%

Outdoor concert venuehttp://www.torontosun.com/Images/percentbar.gif 19%

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Soccer has not failed in Vancouver. Being born and raised in the Vancouver area I can tell you that there will ever only be two sports ever supported in Vancouver; hockey and soccer. Soccer is played in Vancouver year round outdoors, not in doors, not under a bubble, outdoors. Soccer is huge in Vancouver at the grass roots level, if it happens, MLS will not fail in Vancouver.


Lacrosse in big in Vancouver....Failed. Caps are planning on playing in a dome..bubble!!

[Danbwoy]

CFL failed in Ottawa last time because the ownership group was bleeding money - there were rabid Renegades fans and they drew really good crowds.

The proposed soccer stadium would go in a fucking corn field next to Scotiabank Place - far away from the urban core and near-impossible to reach without a vehicle. The CFL stadium plan is part of a larger Lansdowne Park revitalization plan that would bring a new stadium, commercial spaces, a hotel and an aquarium to the city's downtown core. Go to www.lansdownelive.ca for all the details. With a viable ownership group led by Jeff Hunt - owner of the Ottawa 67s - the team would bring business to the downtown area, it would be INCREDIBLE for Ottawa. The MLS team would not last and would not really benefit the city. Support the CFL in Ottawa, not the MLS.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Agree with you totally. I just wanted to point out to the one guy that keeps on mentioning the failure of the Ravens and Grizzlies as his only argument as to why Vancouver should not get a MLS team but never mentions the fact that the Whitecaps and soccer in general have had very strong support in Vancouver.


its easy to have strong support when you only have to put 5,000 fannies in the seat....Sorry i don;t wat to see the Caps in the league to hell with them...same applies to the Impact.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

CFL failed in Ottawa last time because the ownership group was bleeding money - there were rabid Renegades fans and they drew really good crowds.

The proposed soccer stadium would go in a fucking corn field next to Scotiabank Place - far away from the urban core and near-impossible to reach without a vehicle. The CFL stadium plan is part of a larger Lansdowne Park revitalization plan that would bring a new stadium, commercial spaces, a hotel and an aquarium to the city's downtown core. Go to www.lansdownelive.ca (http://www.lansdownelive.ca) for all the details. With a viable ownership group led by Jeff Hunt - owner of the Ottawa 67s - the team would bring business to the downtown area, it would be INCREDIBLE for Ottawa. The MLS team would not last and would not really benefit the city. Support the CFL in Ottawa, not the MLS.


the CFl is a crap league, behind the other great grdiiron leagues , NFL, NCAA, US High school and Pop Warner football then the CFL..they do have a place, iys just at the end of the line where no one really cares.

[Danbwoy]

the CFl is a crap league, behind the other great grdiiron leagues , NFL, NCAA, US High school and Pop Warner football then the CFL..they do have a place, iys just at the end of the line where no one really cares.
The MLS is behind the Premiership, Serie A and Bundesliga... many people would say it's at the end of the line, too, where nobody cares. The difference is that the leauges we both listed don't play in Canadian markets. Regardless of YOUR (stupid) opinion of the quality of the CFL, it has a strong basis in Ottawa and around the country and revitalizing a vastly underused piece of land downtown is more important to Ottawa in the long run than building a soccer field in the middle of nowhere and hoping that if they build it, they will come. I've lived in Ottawa, and I sincerely believe that a soccer team would fail there, especially out in Kanata. Ottawa is a "small city" that supports blue collar sports, and the CFL fits the city's character.

[MUFC_Niagara]

like they embrace CFL again, and again, and again?

Seriously though, who's been to Ottawa....it's teerrrrrrible.

That's a pretty rediculous comment. As a city, Ottawa is beautiful. So much history and lots of stuff to do. I went to University there and am actually in Ottawa right now for work. That may be your opinion but what what are you basing it on? Tell me about some of the stuff you have done while you were in Ottawa.

[GuelphStorm2007]

That's a pretty rediculous comment. As a city, Ottawa is beautiful. So much history and lots of stuff to do. I went to University there and am actually in Ottawa right now for work. That may be your opinion but what what are you basing it on? Tell me about some of the stuff you have done while you were in Ottawa.

I totally agree Ottawa is probabley the nicest Capital City in the world. A lot nicer and Cleaner than Washington, Rome, and Zurich. It may not have the Nightlife like Toronto or Montreal but so what.

[GuelphStorm2007]

If it was up to me. I think Vancouver should be the next Canadian team to be in the MLS. That's if they get there staduim situation in order. At the same time I pleasantly surprised to see the results of the Ottawa Sun poll . Maybe this might work. in Ottawa.

[boban]

Jays average around 30,000 and the Raptors are 9th in the league in attendance.
You're right. Correction should be its not a hockey town, but is a leaf town.
And the only sports Toronto supports is if its major league.

[boban]

its easy to have strong support when you only have to put 5,000 fannies in the seat....Sorry i don;t wat to see the Caps in the league to hell with them...same applies to the Impact.
So on that ridiculous comment how do you explain Toront getting MLS where pretty much no one showed up to Lynx games?

[egoodwin]

That's a pretty rediculous comment. As a city, Ottawa is beautiful. So much history and lots of stuff to do. I went to University there and am actually in Ottawa right now for work. That may be your opinion but what what are you basing it on? Tell me about some of the stuff you have done while you were in Ottawa.
only bad thing about Ottawa is the UofO, and the Sens

[NateDoGG]

i hope ottawa gets a club so we can have a battle of ontario rivalry :)

[Bender]

I'm just gonna repeat what I said in the Eugene Melnyk thread...

I'm really routing for Ottawa. The way I see it, Vancouver is a shoe-in for a spot in the MLS, its just a matter of when. If Ottawa and Vancouver could both land a franchise then football in Canada will take a huge step forward. It can only mean good things.

You hear everyone bitchin about the lack of support in Ottawa but if your really paying attention there's no shortage of support for their clubs, just really bad luck when it comes to owners. They supported their CFL club quite well, it was the owners who ran outta town.

They are no different than Toronto. Toronto hardly supported the Lynx, so you can't say "oh well they don't support the footie team they have" or "they don't support the baseball team they have" well, news flash.. don't see anyone going rushing to see the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team!

Look, footy is growing in this country.. but just like a lot of cities, its the big show or nothing. Lets see what Ottawa can do... I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

This would also bring more clubs into the Canada Cup. Which is an added bonus.

[Redcoe15]

Ottawa can represent itself in the Canadian Championship League playing in USL-1, just as Vancouver and Montreal have done.

Vancouver and Montreal should be considered for MLS teams before Ottawa is even looked at. Apart from the Senators, Ottawa is a bush league town.

[giambac]

It may be a disaster, but if Ottawa gets a team, it lessens the chance of Montreal even further. :D

I disagreee 100%.

Giving cities like Ottawa a franchis eis terible for the MLS. Ottawa has proven time and tima again that theya ren't a sports city. The CFL struggles and so do the SENs.

If Ottawa is granted a team they would fold in 2-3 years time. It would look bad on the leaguw and its credibility.

The only othe rcities in Canada that should get a team are Vancouver and Montreal. Thats it.

[maninb]

Ottawa can represent itself in the Canadian Championship League playing in USL-1, just as Vancouver and Montreal have done.

Vancouver and Montreal should be considered for MLS teams before Ottawa is even looked at. Apart from the Senators, Ottawa is a bush league town.


Let Ottawa PROVE themselves int he USL before wasting time and money trying to get into the MLS!

[rocker]

Vancouver and Montreal should be considered for MLS teams before Ottawa is even looked at. Apart from the Senators, Ottawa is a bush league town.

Montreal was considered for a team, and Saputo fucked it all up by going cheap on his fee and stadium expansion plans.

He had his chance and blew it. Time to move on. If that means Ottawa, then fine. But no preferential treatment for Montreal, please. Play by the rules.

[rocker]

Let Ottawa PROVE themselves int he USL before wasting time and money trying to get into the MLS!

Why? Toronto didn't prove itself in the USL before it got into MLS.

Actually, Toronto fans failed the USL miserably. If that was the test, MLS would never have come to Toronto.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

The MLS is behind the Premiership, Serie A and Bundesliga... many people would say it's at the end of the line, too, where nobody cares. The difference is that the leauges we both listed don't play in Canadian markets. Regardless of YOUR (stupid) opinion of the quality of the CFL, it has a strong basis in Ottawa and around the country and revitalizing a vastly underused piece of land downtown is more important to Ottawa in the long run than building a soccer field in the middle of nowhere and hoping that if they build it, they will come. I've lived in Ottawa, and I sincerely believe that a soccer team would fail there, especially out in Kanata. Ottawa is a "small city" that supports blue collar sports, and the CFL fits the city's character.


thats why the cfl have failed in ottawa...because of the support or lack their off...and it will fail again thats 100 certain...the people of Ottawa were the first canadians to realize the CFL sucks donkey balls, they have no name players,lack of team identity. Kanata has not the Sens why would it hurt MLS?

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Let Ottawa PROVE themselves int he USL before wasting time and money trying to get into the MLS!


the USL is a waste of time...it;s dying....Only Montreal and Vancouver deserve to be in that shite league...they don;t deserve better like the MLS. Maybe Toronto should have benn in the minor basketball league before getting a NBA franchise, or a Minor league baseball team before MLB? although the Jays are now minor league

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

I disagreee 100%.

Giving cities like Ottawa a franchis eis terible for the MLS. Ottawa has proven time and tima again that theya ren't a sports city. The CFL struggles and so do the SENs.

If Ottawa is granted a team they would fold in 2-3 years time. It would look bad on the leaguw and its credibility.

The only othe rcities in Canada that should get a team are Vancouver and Montreal. Thats it.


The CFL struggles....shocking...guess why...its blows as a league and a sport... The Sens are doing quite fine thank you.. people said if Toronto got a MLS franchise it would fold in 2-3 years....is that going to happen/
NO!! Vancouver and Montreal don't deserve MLS soccer they deserve USL, to hell with them!!

[trane]

I am not helping Ottawa do anything. I hate any an all Ottawa franchises.

[giambac]

I am not helping Ottawa do anything. I hate any an all Ottawa franchises.


Same here.

Actually, I'm sending Garber an email as a Canadaian and a supporter of both the mLS and TFC saying I disapprove of a franchise for Ottawa. It's terrible for the league.

Granting Ottawa a team makes the league look like a Bush league.,

[Redcoe15]

Montreal was considered for a team, and Saputo fucked it all up by going cheap on his fee and stadium expansion plans.

He had his chance and blew it. Time to move on. If that means Ottawa, then fine. But no preferential treatment for Montreal, please. Play by the rules.
You mean the rules Don Garber keeps changing to fit his agenda? Like when Miami is demanding to be included for 2009 or they'll take their ball and go home? Why haven't they been told to take a hike? Ask the folks in St. Louis how following the rules helped them out. You'll get plenty of expletives out of them.

Face it, Garber's the problem here. He doesn't care about what's good for soccer. He cares only about what he thinks will make him the most money. He's exactly like Gary Bettman. A New York lawyer who became commisioner of a sports league after spending years as a lieutenant in the heirarchy of another league (Bettman/NBA, Garber/NFL). That's why you shouldn't hold your breath for a real soccer town like Vancouver to get into MLS because Garber doesn't think they can generate revenues from an American standpoint the way he thinks a Miami can.

Saputo may not have come out looking good in all this, but I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up not being wrong when all is said and done.

[werewolf]

I disagreee 100%.

Giving cities like Ottawa a franchis eis terible for the MLS. Ottawa has proven time and tima again that theya ren't a sports city. The CFL struggles and so do the SENs.

If Ottawa is granted a team they would fold in 2-3 years time. It would look bad on the leaguw and its credibility.

The only othe rcities in Canada that should get a team are Vancouver and Montreal. Thats it.

If you are going to disagree, can make points somewhat related to what I wrote.

I am not sure how you consider the Senators are struggling in the city, they have a higher average attendance then the Leafs, every other Canadian team except Montreal, and are 5th overall.

The CFL may have been a constant failure, but it keeps getting chances, so someone must think there is potential.

Aside from that...minor league baseball really isn't indicative of being a sports failure as a city.

[boban]

Let Ottawa PROVE themselves int he USL before wasting time and money trying to get into the MLS!
The same way Toronto proved itself. :rolleyes:

[rocker]

Face it, Garber's the problem here. He doesn't care about what's good for soccer. He cares only about what he thinks will make him the most money. He's exactly like Gary Bettman. A New York lawyer who became commisioner of a sports league after spending years as a lieutenant in the heirarchy of another league (Bettman/NBA, Garber/NFL). That's why you shouldn't hold your breath for a real soccer town like Vancouver to get into MLS because Garber doesn't think they can generate revenues from an American standpoint the way he thinks a Miami can.

Saputo may not have come out looking good in all this, but I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up not being wrong when all is said and done.

Why exactly should Garber care about the success of soccer in Canada? It's self-evident that he would prefer to expand into the country that gave MLS life. The purpose of MLS was to build American soccer. To come to Canada only makes sense if it makes him money, otherwise it makes no sense to come here.. certainly not for charity. Do you fault him for that?

Garber isn't totally concerned with money.... if he was, he would move teams like KC and Columbus immediately.

Anyway, nothing changed for Montreal. They were told 40 million and reasonable expansion of the stadium, and they failed to do that. It's only their fault. The only way the USL becomes MLS in quality is if they rip off all the methods MLS has used to develop this league. So I don't envision Montreal getting the last laugh, ever. They can continue enjoy enriching their position in the USL at the expense of teams in small markets who will never ever compete (see: Atlanta, gone... Austin, next etc).

[Redcoe15]

Why exactly should Garber care about the success of soccer in Canada? It's self-evident that he would prefer to expand into the country that gave MLS life. The purpose of MLS was to build American soccer. To come to Canada only makes sense if it makes him money, otherwise it makes no sense to come here.. certainly not for charity. Do you fault him for that?

Garber isn't totally concerned with money.... if he was, he would move teams like KC and Columbus immediately.

Then, by that logic, he should be putting teams in markets that care about soccer, like St. Louis and Portland, and telling FC Barcelona to take a hike with their Miami bid, without caring about whether or not they make him money or if they're losing it.


Anyway, nothing changed for Montreal. They were told 40 million and reasonable expansion of the stadium, and they failed to do that. It's only their fault. The only way the USL becomes MLS in quality is if they rip off all the methods MLS has used to develop this league. So I don't envision Montreal getting the last laugh, ever. They can continue enjoy enriching their position in the USL at the expense of teams in small markets who will never ever compete (see: Atlanta, gone... Austin, next etc).
No one should ever close the door on a potential market, no matter what someone thinks of the guy in said market. Would you say no to Hamilton in the NHL because of Jim Balsillie's methods?

[james]

its easy to have strong support when you only have to put 5,000 fannies in the seat....Sorry i don;t wat to see the Caps in the league to hell with them...same applies to the Impact.

man you have made some really stupid negative comments about CFL, USL, Vancouver and Montreal. I wonder if you even have a clue what your talking about.

You say Montreal and Vancouver dont deserve MLS teams? why not? These 2 teams have been around along time, have the money to buy teams, so why dont they deserve a franchise? oh you say because its easy to fill a 5,000 seat stadium but they couldnt fill a MLS stadium is that it? Well Montreal play in a 13,000 seat stadium and sold out all most every game, thats more then many MLS teams get. Vancouver yes they only play in a 5,000 seat stadium but they fill it. Do you know how many fans Toronto Lynx use to get in USL....average 1,500 and they played in a 5,000 seat stadium. Montreal and Vancouver are among the top of highest attendence in USL.

Montreal also already has a stadium, all they need is to expand the stadium. I think Montreal should get a team ahead of other cities like Seattle who still play in a NFL stadiums. You give Montreal a team and you wont see empty seats and NFL gridlines everywhere, more then any other new team can say.

You say USL is a shit league....yet USL teams did just as good or even better then MLS clubs did in Concacaf Champions League, and in some ways USL is better, such as having 1 league table, all teams are sponsored and so on. Only problem that league has less money.

Also what American cities are you suggesting deserve a MLS team over Vancouver and Montreal? Canada recently showed we set a record highest attendence in the Under-20 World Cup. And Montreal set record for most fans attending 1 single game, selling somethin like 55,000 tickets for 1 game. So all stats show more Canadian cities deserve a MLS franchise.

And CFL being a shit bottom of the line league, so what, open your eyes so is MLS, who gives a fuck, both leagues got there supporters and have good times, thats all that matters in the end.

[ExiledRed]

Why? Toronto didn't prove itself in the USL before it got into MLS.

Actually, Toronto fans failed the USL miserably. If that was the test, MLS would never have come to Toronto.

Why is this point so frequently ignored in this debate?

Nobody has made a single case against Ottawa that wasn't made against Toronto three years ago, other than the 'stadium needs to be downtown' argument.

I drive in from Guelph every match, and would find it much easier if the stadium was in Mississauga, so I find that argument weak.

[Beach_Red]

You give Montreal a team and you wont see empty seats and NFL gridlines everywhere, more then any other new team can say.



It's too bad someone else doesn't get Montreal an MLS team and put it in Molson Stadium - there's got to be a way to get rid of lines on the field.

[james]

Why is this point so frequently ignored in this debate?

Nobody has made a single case against Ottawa that wasn't made against Toronto three years ago, other than the 'stadium needs to be downtown' argument.

I drive in from Guelph every match, and would find it much easier if the stadium was in Mississauga, so I find that argument weak.

i think that argument is fare tho. Yes it would be closer to you if it was in Mississauga, same with me. But for the 2.5 million in Toronto it would be further. And people East of the city, those towns it would be a hell of alot further. By having the stadium in the Center of Toronto it is closer for alot more people to get to then if it was in say Mississauga, or Oshawa or Markham. Also the transportation in Toronto is much better then in surrounding towns. I know Oakville transportation is brutal. If TFC played in Oakville people would never get to the stadium. Toronto you got the train route, subways,busses and street cars. The city center is where the greater population is built around.

[ExiledRed]

i think that argument is fare tho. Yes it would be closer to you if it was in Mississauga, same with me. But for the 2.5 million in Toronto it would be further. And people East of the city, those towns it would be a hell of alot further. By having the stadium in the Center of Toronto it is closer for alot more people to get to then if it was in say Mississauga, or Oshawa or Markham. The city center is where the greater population is built around.

But Ottawa's city centre is less accessible to the surrounding areas than Toronto's is. Putting the stadium somewhere that is accessible not only to Ottawans, but to the surounding areas might be a better plan.

It certainly hasnt affected the sens, and I find it ridiculous to suggest that people would be willing to drive to a sens game but not to a MLS game, because it's hockey.

If there is a market, and they're as hungry for live football as we were, they will make it out to Kanata every Saturday, and a good percentage of them will be delighted they dont have to drive into the city centre.

[H Bomb]

Why is this point so frequently ignored in this debate?

Nobody has made a single case against Ottawa that wasn't made against Toronto three years ago, other than the 'stadium needs to be downtown' argument.

I drive in from Guelph every match, and would find it much easier if the stadium was in Mississauga, so I find that argument weak.

Here's two.

Ottawa pales in comparison to Toronto when it comes to immigrated and multi-ethnic population.

Ottawa has less than 1,000,000 people and doesn't have the equivalent populations in the surrounding areas that Toronto does.

[james]

But Ottawa's city centre is less accessible to the surrounding areas than Toronto's is. Putting the stadium somewhere that is accessible not only to Ottawans, but to the surounding areas might be a better plan.

It certainly hasnt affected the sens, and I find it ridiculous to suggest that people would be willing to drive to a sens game but not to a MLS game, because it's hockey.

If there is a market, and they're as hungry for live football as we were, they will make it out to Kanata every Saturday, and a good percentage of them will be delighted they dont have to drive into the city centre.

what about the people that dont drive tho. I think more people attend to Toronto FC games through Transportation then driving there own cars. Ive never been to Kanata but if its anythin like the suburbs around Toronto then the transit aint good.

Also Ottawa Sens have struggled at times with attendence over the years. It hasnt always been easy. And yes Toronto fans would travel to surrounding areas to support the team, but i think thats only after it was a huge success. I think if the team doesnt get the same crazy atmosphere off the bat then less fans will be willing to travel the distance.

[james]

Here's two.

Ottawa pales in comparison to Toronto when it comes to immigrated and multi-ethnic population.

Ottawa has less than 1,000,000 people and doesn't have the equivalent populations in the surrounding areas that Toronto does.

and as much as i hate to agree with a city fan, thats a good point to. i mean outside of Toronto you got some pretty big suburbs (mississauga is apparently the biggest suburb in North America). With Brampton and Hamilton in there to. What does Kanata have around the area, farms?

[ExiledRed]

Ottawa's immigration population is on the rise, it's growing every day and Ottawa is becoming a preferred point of entry for educated immigrants.

Also when you say 'multi-ethnic' are you including those of british descent?

[rocker]

don't forget Gatineau Quebec across the river. Quebecers seem a bit more fond of the beautiful game and could be a market too.

[ExiledRed]

Seriously, If Ottawa Gatineau with a population of 1,115,000 can't fill a stadium with 18-20,000 fans then Canadian soccer was never going to go anywhere, and Toronto FC is nothing more than a freakshow.

I say this because that kind of population would warrant maybe two football teams in Europe, and that's specific to the locality. Here we are talking about representing a much wider area than european clubs do.

[james]

Ok I can see kanata being a good spot for a team, If they market it well and really advertise the team but i jsut dont see anyway it can possibly be a better spot then in the Ottawa city center!

[james]

Seriously, If Ottawa Gatineau with a population of 1,115,000 can't fill a stadium with 18-20,000 fans then Canadian soccer was never going to go anywhere, and Toronto FC is nothing more than a freakshow.

I say this because that kind of population would warrant maybe two football teams in Europe, and that's specific to the locality. Here we are talking about representing a much wider area than european clubs do.

ya but we arent Europe, they are Soccer crazy. Sports in general are different, they celebrate sports in a whole different way then they do in Canada or USA. I mean people think TFC is the craziest fans in the country, yet we aint even close to what atmosphere goes on in Europe, and not only Soccer in Europe, that goes for basketball and Hoceky to. Its like part of there culture!

[ExiledRed]

ya but we arent Europe, they are Soccer crazy. Sports in general are different, they celebrate sports in a whole different way then they do in Canada or USA. I mean people think TFC is the craziest fans in the country, yet we aint even close to what atmosphere goes on in Europe, and not only Soccer in Europe, that goes for basketball and Hoceky to. Its like part of there culture!

The 'we aren't europe' argument is so tired.
Nobody said you were, If you hadn't noticed Japan isn't Europe, neither is Australia or anywhere in South America, all have more than one professional soccer team.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Ok I can see kanata being a good spot for a team, If they market it well and really advertise the team but i jsut dont see anyway it can possibly be a better spot then in the Ottawa city center!


I think to Ottawa city center wold be the better spot...provided the CFL is NEVER involved...What MLS doesn't need is a stadium with pointy ball lines, the already have enough.

[Redcoe15]

I think to Ottawa city center wold be the better spot...provided the CFL is NEVER involved...What MLS doesn't need is a stadium with pointy ball lines, the already have enough.
If public money is needed to build an outdoor venue in Ottawa, you can be almost certain that it will be built with Canadian football in mind.

[Mark in Ottawa]

The Ottawa Sun is reporting that MLS commissioner Don Garber would all but assure Melnyk an expansion team if he gets the go-ahead from the city council to build a proposed $110 million soccer stadium in Kanata.
"It's highly unlikely and almost inconceivable that with a stadium deal in place we would not grant an expansion team to Ottawa," Garber told the Sun.

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=266619&lid=headline&lpos=topStory_soccer

[Mark in Ottawa]

"Out in Kanata, Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk and his troops have been hard at work firming up their proposal for a $100-million soccer-specific stadium that could, if necessary, also accommodate Canadian football. This bid requires a block of city land close to Scotiabank Place that is presently a snow dump and considerable provincial and federal funding."

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Sports/stadium+battle+begin/1212628/story.html

Rich people don't get that way by risking their own money.
Melnyk wants a $10Million land grant from the city of Ottawa and as mentioned above
"considerable provincial and federal funding". In other words we all get to pay.

The National Capital Region including the megacity of Ottawa as well as the new amalgamated municipality of Gatineau in Quebec has a large base of amateur soccer players at all levels. Whether this will translate into fans in the seats in Kanata will depend upon a lot of factors including improved transportation and affordable seat pricing.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

brutal, could accommodate cfl

[ESC 101]

exactly...with this plan they'd be no better than the New Jersey Red Bull or FC Frisco. You cant have a grass roots program in an area with no people. It's trying to attach the north american model to footy, and I dont believe that will ever really succeed. Footy is a local game.

Don't compare Metro with FC Frisco. Our new home is in the middle of a football hotbed 8 miles from NYC, and on a direct rail line from the city. Outside of building this thing in Manhattan which was impossible, you could not have put it in a better spot.

[Redcoe15]

Don't compare Metro with FC Frisco. Our new home is in the middle of a football hotbed 8 miles from NYC, and on a direct rail line from the city. Outside of building this thing in Manhattan which was impossible, you could not have put it in a better spot.
So is this going to get the bat-shit crazy Borough Boys out to the new pitch, or are they going to keep holding their breaths until Big Daddy Wilpon gets them the stadium and the team they've been whining for like spoiled brats?

[Super]

Easy road trip!

That's all I care about.

[reidjr]

How many toronto fans are for or against a ottawa team.

[giambac]

Seriously, If Ottawa Gatineau with a population of 1,115,000 can't fill a stadium with 18-20,000 fans then Canadian soccer was never going to go anywhere, and Toronto FC is nothing more than a freakshow.

I say this because that kind of population would warrant maybe two football teams in Europe, and that's specific to the locality. Here we are talking about representing a much wider area than european clubs do.

Ottawa isn't Europe.

They don't support sport tems (CFL and NHL) iunless the tickets are given away.

Secondly, they can't balanc etheir books whether it's the sports team or the Federal government.

They don't deserve a team and they would be bad for the MLS because after 2-3 yeras tops all we will be hearing about is their finacial problems, the lack of fan supposrt, their begiing the government for handouts/bailouts etc.

If they want soccer thay can watch it on the tube. Actually I would balck it out in their are so they can't even watch it on tv.:mad:

[JonO]

Don't compare Metro with FC Frisco. Our new home is in the middle of a football hotbed 8 miles from NYC, and on a direct rail line from the city. Outside of building this thing in Manhattan which was impossible, you could not have put it in a better spot.
Looking forward to visiting this season. Hopefully the stadium will be ready by then - it is the last game...

[reidjr]

Ottawa isn't Europe.

They don't support sport tems (CFL and NHL) iunless the tickets are given away.

Secondly, they can't balanc etheir books whether it's the sports team or the Federal government.

They don't deserve a team and they would be bad for the MLS because after 2-3 yeras tops all we will be hearing about is their finacial problems, the lack of fan supposrt, their begiing the government for handouts/bailouts etc.

If they want soccer thay can watch it on the tube. Actually I would balck it out in their are so they can't even watch it on tv.:mad:

Ottawa has been a top 10 team in attendance for some time now.Don't say they only get support when tickets are given away.

[giambac]

Ottawa has been a top 10 team in attendance for some time now.Don't say they only get support when tickets are given away.

top 10 in what the CFL? They no longer have a team, how many times did they fold? I stopped counting...

Top 10 in attendance for some time in what the NHL?? For some time?? when was it they they were filing for bankruptcy?????

[reidjr]

top 10 in what the CFL? They no longer have a team, how many times did they fold? I stopped counting...

Top 10 in attendance for some time in what the NHL?? For some time?? when was it they they were filing for bankruptcy?????

They filed for bankruptcy protection in 2003.

Attendance from 2001-2009

2001 (Avg 17,793)
2002 (Avg 16,919)
2003 (Avg 17,198)
2004 (Avg 17,758)
2006 (Avg 19,474)
2007 (Avg 19,372)
2008 (Avg 19,821)
2009 (Avg 18,853)

[giambac]

They filed for bankruptcy in 2003.

Attendance from 2001-2009

2001 (Avg 17,793)
2002 (Avg 16,919)
2003 (Avg 17,198)
2004 (Avg 17,758)
2006 (Avg 19,474)
2007 (Avg 19,372)
2008 (Avg 19,821)
2009 (Avg 18,853)

NHL is the top hockey league in the world and they aren't selling out. Hockey is Canada's national sport and they aren't selling out.

So how nuch would they get for a soccer match? 10,000??????

How long would it last - a half season before they are asking for a bailout???

[reidjr]

NHL is the top hockey league in the world and they aren't selling out. Hockey is Canada's national sport and they aren't selling out.

So how nuch would they get for a soccer match? 10,000??????

How long would it last - a half season before they are asking for a bailout???

You have to keep in mind major junior is aslo big in ottawa.The 67s avg around 7,000 a game while the olypiques avg around 3,000 a game.

[Beach_Red]

NHL is the top hockey league in the world and they aren't selling out. Hockey is Canada's national sport and they aren't selling out.

So how nuch would they get for a soccer match? 10,000??????

How long would it last - a half season before they are asking for a bailout???


Well it's a season average, right? So that's over forty-some games, pre-season and didn't Ottawa used to make the playoffs ;).

So, the price of an NHL season ticket in Ottawa vs. season tickets to MLS isn't even close. Summer - winter, etc.. There are too many differences to make worthwhile comparisons.

But it's really up to Melnyk, isn't it? If he wants to put up the money, more power to him. I'd rather see MLS soccer try and fail in Canadian cities than not even try. Soccer has failed so many times in North America a little more won't be a big deal. But some surprise successes would be great, might as well have them in Canada.

[Canary Canuck]

NHL is the top hockey league in the world and they aren't selling out. Hockey is Canada's national sport and they aren't selling out.

So how nuch would they get for a soccer match? 10,000??????

How long would it last - a half season before they are asking for a bailout???

We're talking about 15-18 home games (almost all on weekends) at MLS prices versus 41 home games (many on week nights) at NHL prices.

[Super Cereal]

Why do people even bother trying to engage giambac in intellectual debate?

[james]

The 'we aren't europe' argument is so tired.
Nobody said you were, If you hadn't noticed Japan isn't Europe, neither is Australia or anywhere in South America, all have more than one professional soccer team.

in the Australia league cities only have 1 team.

I believe for the most part even cities in France only got 1 soccer team.

[SweetOwnGoal]

I’m hoping to generate some dialogue on the Ottawa expansion bid. I’m in the middle of a multi story series looking at the bid.
The first two parts are up:
http://24thminute.blogspot.com/2009/02/ottawa-to-mls-part-1-but-can-it-work.html
http://24thminute.blogspot.com/2009/02/ottawa-to-mls-part-2-whats-in-it-for.html

I’d love for comments to be left on the site.

[ExiledRed]

in the Australia league cities only have 1 team.

I believe for the most part even cities in France only got 1 soccer team.

What's your point? Do all those cities have populations bigger than Ottawa's?

I was actually pointing out that so far, Canada, population 33 million, only has one professional soccer team at the top flight, and people are saying that it's fourth largest city is too small for another one.

While over in Australia, population 22 million, they have a whole league of teams.

I'm saying that if Ottawa cant support one football team, canada can't support football.

[james]

What's your point? Do all those cities have populations bigger than Ottawa's?

I was actually pointing out that so far, Canada, population 33 million, only has one professional soccer team at the top flight, and people are saying that it's fourth largest city is too small for another one.

While over in Australia, population 22 million, they have a whole league of teams.

I'm saying that if Ottawa cant support one football team, canada can't support football.

my point was just answerring your question when you said every other country around the world cities have more then 1 soccer club in it.

And yes you would think 1 million people could support a soccer club, its just that in this country things are run differently and in all sports in North America we have seen teams come and go with cities that have more then 1 million people so you just never know what to exspect.