The Academy

[James17930]

Just wondering about this . . .

With the roster changes this year, we will be carrying around 4 players who are deemed 'Developmental.' Thing is, there's no Developmental League this year. So everyone's been wondering, how and when are these guys going to play?

So, in a way, we have around 4 surplus players on the senior roster already.

Also, we have a draft, so every year, we could pick up around 3 NCAA players (assuming we don't trade for more/less draft picks). That means decent players coming in every year.

Plus we can sign players from anywhere in the world.

So, already, at this point -- lots of available players.

So that brings us to the Academy. These guys play in the CSL, which is great (actually better than most of us could have hoped for, I think), but . . . with the glut of players available from other means, do you think any of the Academy players actually have a realistic shot of making the senior roster?

If they manage to find a phenom from here in T.O. then I'm sure he would eventually catch people's attention, but how likely do you think that is to happen? Do you think any serviceable players are going to be given a chance over serviceable players that be picked up in the draft or as a straight signing? How many senior roster players do you think it's likely to produce in, say, the next 5 or 10 years?

I don't know. For some reason I see the Academy as being a little side-project that will probably never come to much.

Anyone have any thoughts?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

it does seem a bit backwards to encourage teams to have academies then have no where to place the players when they graduate (i spose the MLS board thinks they will make a team right away having never played a professional game in their lives). Should be interesting to see how this is addressed at the end of the season (when the CBA ends as well)

[deschamp86]

I'd personally like to see the Academy move to PDL and TFC field a reserve team in CSL instead.

[rocker]

there are also restrictions on how many kids you can take from the academy and put on the full squad.. the coach of the Shite Bulls complained it's too risky ... you could decide to promote a kid and then you can't promote any of the others for some time period if you made a mistake and some non-chosen kid shines. Also, he complained that there's no way to test these academy kids in a real MLS environment first (you'd have to give them that contract first, and then it's too late).

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I'd personally like to see the Academy move to PDL and TFC field a reserve team in CSL instead.


thatd be a brilliant idea too.
I wonder if its difficult to do?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

there are also restrictions on how many kids you can take from the academy and put on the full squad.. the coach of the Shite Bulls complained it's too risky ... you could decide to promote a kid and then you can't promote any of the others for some time period if you made a mistake and some non-chosen kid shines. Also, he complained that there's no way to test these academy kids in a real MLS environment first (you'd have to give them that contract first, and then it's too late).


this is something i expect to be addressed in the CBA as well

[ccopela]

thatd be a brilliant idea too.
I wonder if its difficult to do?

I'm betting MLS has restrictions on fielding a reserve team. Also we don't have the personnel to fill a reserve team regularly because of roster restrictions.

[T_Mizz]

I think that they will become servicable players as the dev roster will need to be filled when the current dev players get to a certain age where they no longer are going to accomplish anything or are good enough to get a senior contract

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I'm betting MLS has restrictions on fielding a reserve team. Also we don't have the personnel to fill a reserve team regularly because of roster restrictions.

youre prob right, what about sending them on loan.
even then i guess we'd have to have them under contract and they would take up roster space.
ech.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

this is something i expect to be addressed in the CBA as well

I hope you're right. The current restrictions that MLS sides have in signing academy players are archaic. The league should be moving away from a draft model and toward the academy system. Without such a move, what incentive does any team have in developing home-grown talent?

[[NBF]]

:canada:We can sign players form the TFC Academy, apparently only a select few, but you can always send these kids out on loan elsewhere. There's plenty of leagues these kids can go to; CSL, USL 2 & 3, or they can go to university on a scholarship(as soon as they graduate from the academy) which we could get back in the draft.

Here's a nice way to look at it:

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4608/tfcacademyplanux5.jpg

[Flipityflu]

or they can go to university on a scholarship(as soon as they graduate from the academy) which we COULD get back in the draft.


if that quote doesn't show how backwards domestic player development is i don't know what does.

yeah sure, lets set up an academy, pay money for the trainers and scouts, invest in the time to teach the player, see them graduate, go to uni, then get drafted by some other team. good job.

ANY player who joins the Toronto FC academy and graduates should not be going anywhere near the draft. if we want him, we should have first choice. if no deal is reached, then he can go to the draft.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

It makes little sense to go out of the way to develop players, just to see them get drafted by rival teams. Teams would have much greater incentive to invest in their respective academies if they could benefit directly from such an investment. Otherwise, why bother lift a finger when you can acquire other teams' prospects in the draft?

Btw, there is no USL-3. The third division of the United Soccer Leagues is the Premier Development League, which is an amateur league that plays during summer months.

[James17930]

And this is why I was wondering about this . . . the idea of having an academy seems completely at odds with having the NCAA and a draft.

They seem to compete with each other.

Do you think MLS ever would cancel the draft?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

itll never get cancelled but itll be come less important and less of a source for players

[Dub Narcotic]

The MLB had, or used to have, a Rule 6 draft, where prospects who had been in one team's system for, say, five years, were made available to other teams. I would like to see this implemented for MLS. If an academy player isn't on the senior roster by the time they are 21, they are added to the draft pool so the league's talent pool is increased without punishing the teams who develop players well.

[Steve]

And this is why I was wondering about this . . . the idea of having an academy seems completely at odds with having the NCAA and a draft.

They seem to compete with each other.

Do you think MLS ever would cancel the draft?

I'm not sure that's the best idea. I know that in other places in the world, you go from academy to team with no education, but is that really the best fit for us? Personally, I like the idea of athletic scholarships because it at least gives the kids an education to fall back on. Let's face it, pro sports is a crap shoot, so isn't it better to have educated athletes who just barely don't make the cut, than academy drop-outs who have no prospects?

Personally, I'd like to see some form of integrated system. If a kid has gone to an academy for a certain number of years, that team owns their MLS rights for life(the beauty of single entity). This will allow kids to still go to university (if they want to) while keeping their rights with the team that developed them. The academies can also help with scholarships, provided the kids come back every summer for their 4 month break to take part in training with the first team (since that is most of the season).

Also, I think it's pretty obvious that the restrictions on signing from your own academy need to be lifted. I don't know a single reason to have them (other than misplaced parity I guess, if one team has an awesome academy).

[Beach_Red]

itll never get cancelled but itll be come less important and less of a source for players

Do you mean the NCAA draft will become less important? Why do say that?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Do you mean the NCAA draft will become less important? Why do say that?


Well essentially the academys will pump out more and better players (this is all hypothetical btw) who are prepared to help right away and have the tools to do so. Where as NCAA gives them somewhat experience but doesnt necessarily mean they can contribute right away.

In favor of this theory id like to submit to the members of the jury the fact that the supplemental draft has been done away with. Once again this is all a theory and a loose one at that. I havent put alot of effort into this post but feel free to do with it what you will. I do believe that clubs will become more dependent on the academies and scouting than the draft. Not to say it will disappear all together but to say that it wont dominate as it does today (although dominate is a strong word for it)

[T_Mizz]

Not only more and better but more importantly: younger
However, the way it works elsewhere is Academy-Reserves-First Team
as it stands now we have the first and third steps with no bridge in between, obviously this must be changed if the academies are to be useful in any way, shape or form.

[Beach_Red]

Well essentially the academys will pump out more and better players (this is all hypothetical btw) who are prepared to help right away and have the tools to do so. Where as NCAA gives them somewhat experience but doesnt necessarily mean they can contribute right away.

In favor of this theory id like to submit to the members of the jury the fact that the supplemental draft has been done away with. Once again this is all a theory and a loose one at that. I havent put alot of effort into this post but feel free to do with it what you will. I do believe that clubs will become more dependent on the academies and scouting than the draft. Not to say it will disappear all together but to say that it wont dominate as it does today (although dominate is a strong word for it)

I can see how this would work from the professional team's point of view, but it doesn't offer much to the players - apart from the tiny percentage of them who make it as professionals, what's the fall back position for the rest?

Anything other than a college degree will be a tough sell to kids and their parents in the USA.

[rocker]

i wonder if in the CBA negotiations, the players will actually fight an easier/greater connection between academy and first team.. Why? because this could be a source of cheaper players.. and greater competition for the guys already in the league. thinking selfishly, the players might want to preserve the current system.

[T_Mizz]

I can see how this would work from the professional team's point of view, but it doesn't offer much to the players - apart from the tiny percentage of them who make it as professionals, what's the fall back position for the rest?

Anything other than a college degree will be a tough sell to kids and their parents in the USA.
Which is why they should do it like GA contracts which guarantee college scholarships should their pro soccer dreams not pan out.

[T_Mizz]

In other Academy news, anyone hear anything about the U-14 team? like where are they going to play?

[James17930]

^You mean the U-16s? (We don't have a U-14 team as of yet).

The U-16s play in the CSL Reserve League.

[T_Mizz]

^Thanks cause I lived under a rock last year
Tom Anselmi said they're bringing in a U-14 team this year

[James17930]

Well, sorry.

[T_Mizz]

haha no i must apologize bit harsh huh?
but yeah no one got any info?

[denime]

You should ask mlsintoronto about U-14 academy?

[Detroit_TFC]

I'd personally like to see the Academy move to PDL and TFC field a reserve team in CSL instead.

I like this, too.

I think the other MLS teams should do the same (in USL-2 instead of CSL, of course). From a playing standpoint, the reserves gotta play or they will just wither. From a marketing standpoint, this would expose the teams to more people and locations.

Can't see USL accepting an influx of MLS branded teams, though.

[NF-FC]

This is what happens when a league tries to start at the top with no foundation. I pray for the day with a Canadian Domestic league that has proper rules and policy, MLS drives me nuts!

[Plenty of Trout]

Not only more and better but more importantly: younger
However, the way it works elsewhere is Academy-Reserves-First Team
as it stands now we have the first and third steps with no bridge in between, obviously this must be changed if the academies are to be useful in any way, shape or form.

Yup, it appears flawed as is.

[Red Skies At Night]

Never mind, I found the answer...

[T_Mizz]

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090205&content_id=215904&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280
Check out the bottom paragraph

[deschamp86]

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090205&content_id=215904&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280
Check out the bottom paragraph

That's great news. Hopefully it won't be too long before one of them makes the roster.