Single Table?

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

They has been lots of arguements of why MLS can't go to a Single Table....mostly because of travel..ect..ect.

TFC Shedule this year is set up...where we play everyone in the LEAGUE HOME and AWAY!...except Columbus..and the Shite BUlls..where we play them 3 times!... The shedule shows it.......IT CAN BE DONE!:D

[ExiledRed]

If you believe that the Supporters Shield is actually more important than the MLS cup, and I do, then the single table is pretty much already in place.

You can combine both conference tables at any point in the season, to find out who's in charge of the league.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

If you believe that the Supporters Shield is actually more important than the MLS cup, and I do, then the single table is pretty much already in place.

You can combine both conference tables at any point in the season, to find out who's in charge of the league.


The EAST WEST THING is just an EYE SOAR!!! :D



HEy red long time bro!!:)

[MG42]

If you believe that the Supporters Shield is actually more important than the MLS cup, and I do, then the single table is pretty much already in place.

You can combine both conference tables at any point in the season, to find out who's in charge of the league.

This is the best single table for MLS I have found;

http://www.settingthetable.info/stt/default.asp

[Beach_Red]

If you believe that the Supporters Shield is actually more important than the MLS cup, and I do, then the single table is pretty much already in place.

You can combine both conference tables at any point in the season, to find out who's in charge of the league.

I noticed this season on the NFL website there was an option to show the standings as a single table. It may be coming...

I have to say, though, for me I prefer a playoffs. I like to see head-to-head elimination, winner-take-all games decide the champions.

Of course, I have no experience with this league champion stuff, maybe it's way better and I'd stillhave the Champions League for the elimination-style games ('cause you know TFC will be in it this year, oh yes they will).

[james]

I noticed this season on the NFL website there was an option to show the standings as a single table. It may be coming...

I have to say, though, for me I prefer a playoffs. I like to see head-to-head elimination, winner-take-all games decide the champions.

Of course, I have no experience with this league champion stuff, maybe it's way better and I'd stillhave the Champions League for the elimination-style games ('cause you know TFC will be in it this year, oh yes they will).

IF MLS was to ever go to a 1-League table (i hope they do) that doesnt mean they have to change the playoff format at all. It just means every team plays each other 1 home and 1 away game. Top 8 teams then qualify for playoff, 1 st Place team wins the Season, And top 4 teams qualify for Concacaf Champions League. It makes more sense for MLS to use a 1 league table, makes everythin less confussing.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

I noticed this season on the NFL website there was an option to show the standings as a single table. It may be coming...

I have to say, though, for me I prefer a playoffs. I like to see head-to-head elimination, winner-take-all games decide the champions.

Of course, I have no experience with this league champion stuff, maybe it's way better and I'd stillhave the Champions League for the elimination-style games ('cause you know TFC will be in it this year, oh yes they will).


I'd Go to a single table for the Shield.....and replace the US OPEN CUP with the MLS CUP and PLAY it during the SEASON....for EXAMPLE FA CUP...SCOTISH CUP......for the ones..who like the elimination,s still get there fix in this set up!!

[flatpicker]

I have to say, though, for me I prefer a playoffs. I like to see head-to-head elimination, winner-take-all games decide the champions.



MLS could still have playoffs.
With a single table you simple give a trophy to the first place team.
Then you have a Cup tourney (playoffs) to decide the MLS Cup winner.
No different than we already have... It just one column of team standings instead of two.


edit... ok... I have been beaten to it... so I think it's clear now.

[deeznutz]

I like pie =.=

[Beach_Red]

I'd Go to a single table for the Shield.....and replace the US OPEN CUP with the MLS CUP and PLAY it during the SEASON....for EXAMPLE FA CUP...SCOTISH CUP......for the ones..who like the elimination,s still get there fix in this set up!!

Yes, that would be better, I think, than putting playoffs at the end of the season if the League title becomes the important one. Whatever games are played last always take on more importance, so the league title could never be the big one if there were playoff games after.

I have to admit, though, all this seems really six of one a half dozen of the other - it really just sounds like people want it exactly the way it is "back home." Which is fine, I guess, it just doesn't seem that different to me.

[Beach_Red]

I like pie =.=

How's the leg? I was helping out a friend of mine today who just got home from the hospital after surgery, putting in pins, all that....

[SilverSamurai]

MLS could still have playoffs.
With a single table you simple give a trophy to the first place team.
Then you have a Cup tourney (playoffs) to decide the MLS Cup winner.
No different than we already have... It just one column of team standings instead of two.


edit... ok... I have been beaten to it... so I think it's clear now.

Isn't that the way it is now though? The overall winner/1st place team gets the Supporters Shield, and the top 2 and next 6 in either division make playoffs.
Doesn't seem worth it to me. I don't see any benefit in having 1 division except it's easier to see who the best teams in the league are but theirs software for that... :noidea:

[flatpicker]

^ well that's my point... it's basically the same... it's just a question of what kind of chart they put up on the website. So why not do it.

The only difference right now is that the first place East and first place West teams automatically finish in the top two and have home field advantage.

Going to a single table would be one of the simplest changes MLS could possibly make, and it would go a long way to making old-school footie fans happier.

[SilverSamurai]

Yes, that would be better, I think, than putting playoffs at the end of the season if the League title becomes the important one. Whatever games are played last always take on more importance, so the league title could never be the big one if there were playoff games after.

I have to admit, though, all this seems really six of one a half dozen of the other - it really just sounds like people want it exactly the way it is "back home." Which is fine, I guess, it just doesn't seem that different to me.
+1. I agree.
Doesn't bother me either. I just think it's fine how it is.

I don't think the supporters shield will ever be the "main thing" since the "purists" are a minority in MLS. Anyone remember the 2 tots promo from last season? lol

[SilverSamurai]

^ well that's my point... it's basically the same... it's just a question of what kind of chart they put up on the website. So why not do it.

The only difference right now is that the first place East and first place West teams automatically finish in the top two and have home field advantage.

Going to a single table would be one of the simplest changes MLS could possibly make, and it would go a long way to making old-school footie fans happier.

But if it's a matter of the chart, their are websites that do it for you. So, what's the big deal?
Or if anything MLS should have an option for a single division or overall standings.

[Nazzer]

single table isn't being done because MLS is planning to expand beyond 16 teams. They have stated that the ideal schedule is 30-34 games. once you get past 18 teams, which they will, you won't be able to play a proper single table home and away format.

A divisional set up allows MLS to emphasize to its fans that the teams play the teams in their division ore than the teams outside their division, this will be the case for every season in MLS except for the one season that there are 16 teams.

And in terms of arranging teams in one table when the schedule isnt balanced, thats just a waste of time because comparing a team from the west to a team from the east is comparing different schedules. Which by the wau I think its retarded that a team in the same division will play a different schedule of games than other teams in its division. For example I think Toronto and DC will end up playing different schedule (although only 2 games will be different)

[Cashcleaner]

They has been lots of arguements of why MLS can't go to a Single Table....mostly because of travel..ect..ect.

TFC Shedule this year is set up...where we play everyone in the LEAGUE HOME and AWAY!...except Columbus..and the Shite BUlls..where we play them 3 times!... The shedule shows it.......IT CAN BE DONE!:D

Who argues that MLS can't go with a Single Table schedule? I doubt you'll find a large majority of people here and on other forums that would prefer Single Table with 1 home and 1 away game against every opponent.

Like you said, we're almost at that point now with the '09 schedule.

[Nodoubtguy]

Once Philly and the expansion teams are in....home and away would mean 36 games.....I think that would be perfect if you dropped the playoffs and made it single table

[TFC_Toon]

Once Philly and the expansion teams are in....home and away would mean 36 games.....I think that would be perfect if you dropped the playoffs and made it single table

And have the cup competition run throughout the season with the climax being the final match of the season.

[Cashcleaner]

^ Works for me.

[Keystone FC]

I think the biggest arguement for a single table was last year when the Red Bulls (who are shite) won the WESTERN conference championship. If that wasn't a wake up call for a single table I don't know what would.

[werewolf]

I'd Go to a single table for the Shield.....and replace the US OPEN CUP with the MLS CUP and PLAY it during the SEASON....for EXAMPLE FA CUP...SCOTISH CUP......for the ones..who like the elimination,s still get there fix in this set up!!


I think the cups should be left as it is. The US Open Cup is similar to the FA Cup, but there is another cup in both cases, Carling Cup vs. MLS Cup (though different importance).

With the lack of popularity as it is with the league, it would make it even less popular if only 2-3 teams had a chance at winning the most important trophy in the last month of the season. Shite Bulls were the worst team to make it into the playoffs, in a single table there fan support would have been even lower (if thats possible) in the last month of the season, almost 20 points out of the Supporters Shield. But with the playoff format they were still in it. Plus the three other teams who were within 3 points of them.

[Shakes McQueen]

I don't mind having conferences and playoffs, instead of just having the champion decided on points in a single table format.

Conferences encourage regional rivalries. Our games against clubs like Columbust and the Energy Drinks tend to mean a bit more than our matches against San Jose, for example.

Once the league gets a bit older, I'm in favour of returning to the idea of a single table. As it stands now, moving to a single table should be like 500th on the MLS list of priorities.

As for playoffs, I actually like them. Not having the winner decided until the championship, keeps fan interest high until the very end - instead of having a team win by points, with several games left in the season. I get why MLS chooses to use a playoff format.

Eventually, I favour going to a format where the MLS Cup matches are held ike the Copa Del Rey in Spain, during the MLS season, and the points leader wins the domestic league. But again, I understand why they aren't doing that right now.

- Scott

[Yohan]

US already has a domestic cup which is more or less tied to MLS. I doubt MLS will want to create another cup, just to get Canadian teams involved

[Shakes McQueen]

With the lack of popularity as it is with the league, it would make it even less popular if only 2-3 teams had a chance at winning the most important trophy in the last month of the season. Shite Bulls were the worst team to make it into the playoffs, in a single table there fan support would have been even lower (if thats possible) in the last month of the season, almost 20 points out of the Supporters Shield. But with the playoff format they were still in it. Plus the three other teams who were within 3 points of them.

Exactly. It keeps things interesting.

Instead of the rest of the season becoming a formality once a team has enough points, several teams still have a shot at the cup at the end.

Making the playoffs was what kept us on the edge of our seats last year, as TFC's post-season hopes hung in the balance until the second-last match of the season. Were it not for that, TFC's remaining matches would have become pretty meaningless a lot earlier.

I support keeping the game's European roots, but I also think some North American sports conventions can actually be an improvement to the competitive aspect of the league - such as salary caps, and playoffs. Especially since there isn't promotion or relegation.

- Scott

[Steve]

Eventually, I favour going to a format where the MLS Cup matches are held ike the Copa Del Rey in Spain, during the MLS season, and the points leader wins the domestic league. But again, I understand why they aren't doing that right now.


Sorry, but playoffs during the season? That's a terrible idea. North American sports have their playoffs at the end of the season for a reason, continuity. A single team will make a run throughout the season, make the playoffs, and hopefully vie for the ultimate prize. If you have them during the season either you allow everyone to qualify for the playoffs (which wouldn't sit right with people) or you have qualification carry over from last year. If you have it carry over, it's not even the same team who competed (our off seasons tend to be filled with movement, drafts, etc). Plus, mid season means teams have to make the choice between going for the supporters' shield, or the MLS cup (since you'd probably have fixture congestion, a team couldn't concentrate on both effectively). That means the best teams might just let the cup (or the shield) slide.

Frankly, I like the way we do it now. I think the cup competition itself might need some changes (how many games played against which teams, where they're played, etc) but the concept is the right one. As for single table, seriously, who cares? We can't have one yet because we wouldn't have enough games (still need 3 games against some opponents). They're just keeping the format to get fans used to it, in case they grow enough to solidify the conferences (think 2 conferences of 16 teams each, both conferences are awarded their own supporters' shield at the end of the season and both contribute 6 teams to the playoffs for the MLS champion).

[Hitcho]

Fans of MLS will always split into two camps on this one - the traditionalist footie approach and the American sports culture approach.

BUT, one key aspect is the players. If MLS wants to attract top foreign talent (and there's no point raising the salary cap if they don't) then they need to give the league as much credibility as possible. Going to a single table format with a knockout cup competition along the way will be a big part of that. (Getting rid of pointy ball lines will be another).

[Technorgasm]

oh schnap. .not this again.

you can tell its the off season. . COME ON MARCH!

[druid]

Isn't there already a thread about this?

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=9310

:rolleyes:

[flatpicker]

Fans of MLS will always split into two camps on this one - the traditionalist footie approach and the American sports culture approach.

BUT, one key aspect is the players. If MLS wants to attract top foreign talent (and there's no point raising the salary cap if they don't) then they need to give the league as much credibility as possible. Going to a single table format with a knockout cup competition along the way will be a big part of that. (Getting rid of pointy ball lines will be another).


agreed... this isn't just a "what do the fans want" issue.
This is about "how do we make this a more attractive product globally"?
If we want this league to grow and raise the talent level... then we need to attract the talent!
If MLS rules and format seem bizarre to non-North Americans, then they will be hesitant to accept it.

[Hitcho]

^ so, do you want to take the final step and convert this into one of our two tier mls threads, or shall I do it Flats?!

:D:D:D

[flatpicker]

^ one day Hitcho... one day it won't be just humourous banter... it will be the real deal!

[Fort York Redcoat]

Fans of MLS will always split into two camps on this one - the traditionalist footie approach and the American sports culture approach.



3 camps

NA- how it is
World- how I want it

and the HitchFlats meld! Just find the thread and link it boys! That was some serious work you did that day!

and Beach just watch some damn Champions League already. I feel like I'm talking to a virgin worried about prom night:hump:.;)

[flatpicker]

3 camps

NA- how it is
World- how I want it

and the HitchFlats meld! Just find the thread and link it boys! That was some serious work you did that day!
:hump:.;)


I believe you are talking about this thread:

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=7584

[SilverSamurai]

agreed... this isn't just a "what do the fans want" issue.
This is about "how do we make this a more attractive product globally"?
If we want this league to grow and raise the talent level... then we need to attract the talent!
If MLS rules and format seem bizarre to non-North Americans, then they will be hesitant to accept it.

So should MLS adopt a Opening and Closing season like they do in the Latin American leagues?
Will that attract more "fans"?

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

The east west set is is fine for MLS, the general sports fan understands it and will make it easier for fans to follow. This is not european football and we DONT have to follow their example on running things. a single table would kill attendance in a lot of MLS markets...Fans would go hey were 8th 14 point behind the leaders we have no hope..why go? at least with the current system a team like NY can squeak in and go the the cup final and almost become league champions!!

[Fort York Redcoat]

Single table will come when MLS feels it will be accepted by the NA majority. With EPL on ESPN going to be in millions of American homes later on this year I think we'll see a change.

I'll remind naysayers how predictable a Champions League was for CONCACAF 2 yrs ago. It may happen a little slower than some of us would like but MLS will be moving closer to joining the World's game.

[flatpicker]

The east west set is is fine for MLS, the general sports fan understands it and will make it easier for fans to follow. This is not european football and we DONT have to follow their example on running things. a single table would kill attendance in a lot of MLS markets...Fans would go hey were 8th 14 point behind the leaders we have no hope..why go? at least with the current system a team like NY can squeak in and go the the cup final and almost become league champions!!


I would support a East-West format if it actually meant something!

If you are going to have divisions then it should be reflected in the season schedule!

If you are playing every team in the league home and away then what is the point?

A divisional league should be played like they do in baseball.
Let the teams play the majority of games within their division!

In my ideal East-West scenario there would be no playoffs...
The first place team in each division would go straight to the MLS cup final to determine the overall champ.
That situation though would eliminate the Supporter Shield winner and instead we would have an East trophy and a West trophy.

[Fort York Redcoat]

BTW this is why we're Mickey Mouse.

:rolleyes5:

I know we Euro Snobs are the minority but grow in number every year.:D

[Beach_Red]

3 camps

NA- how it is
World- how I want it

and the HitchFlats meld! Just find the thread and link it boys! That was some serious work you did that day!

and Beach just watch some damn Champions League already. I feel like I'm talking to a virgin worried about prom night:hump:.;)

Oh, I'm sold on it now ;).

And, like I said, even the NFL web site offers standings as a single table. College rankings look a like a single table to me. The NHL and NBA standings in the paper rarely show divisions anymore - too many teams for a single table, but I guess you could call them east and west single tables.

This will happen, it's just a question of when :).

[Steve]

One time, when I was 8, a friend came over to my house for lunch. My mom made us grilled cheese sandwiches. She cut it like she usually does, straight down the middle (so the two pieces are perfectly symetrical). Well, sadly, Johny did not like this. He just started yelling about how his mom used to cut the pieces diagonally. He refused to eat the sandwich, because he said it wasn't right. He even questioned my mom's cooking ability, how good could she be if she didn't even know how to cut a sandwich?

Sorry, what was this thread supposed to be about? I think I got sidetracked...

[Hitcho]

One time, when I was 8, a friend came over to my house for lunch. My mom made us grilled cheese sandwiches. She cut it like she usually does, straight down the middle (so the two pieces are perfectly symetrical). Well, sadly, Johny did not like this. He just started yelling about how his mom used to cut the pieces diagonally. He refused to eat the sandwich, because he said it wasn't right. He even questioned my mom's cooking ability, how good could she be if she didn't even know how to cut a sandwich?

Sorry, what was this thread supposed to be about? I think I got sidetracked...

Dude, you need some new friends! :p

[Hitcho]

I believe you are talking about this thread:

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=7584

Actually, I think it was this thread...

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=7647&page=2

The genesis of an idea that will transform MLS into a credible league worldwide, combining the best of the traditionalist world and the saftey brakes of the NA model.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I heard that cutting sandwiches down the middle registers with a bigger demographic.

[Hitcho]

^ one day Hitcho... one day it won't be just humourous banter... it will be the real deal!

Yeah, I can't believe that the league hasn't at elast seriously considered something like this, even if they've dcided the time isn't right yet.

They'll want to have an established product in place before they make a change like that and risk alienating any significant portion of the fan base, btu then again the best time to make the change is as the league evolves to the right size to pull off something like this, ie it's a natural transition and development.

Right now it's still too early, although an interim step of going to a single table first and then splitting into a second table would certainly help yankee play off fans digest the changes.

[Hitcho]

I heard that cutting sandwiches down the middle registers with a bigger demographic.

Wait, which one is the non-play-off type of sandwich, the triangles or the rectangles?

[flatpicker]

Actually, I think it was this thread...

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=7647&page=2

The genesis of an idea that will transform MLS into a credible league worldwide, combining the best of the traditionalist world and the saftey brakes of the NA model.

ah yes...

[Fort York Redcoat]

Wait, which one is the non-play-off type of sandwich, the triangles or the rectangles?

You should know. My family have eaten diagonal sandwiches for generations.:p

[Hitcho]

^ I need a beer...

[Cashcleaner]

agreed... this isn't just a "what do the fans want" issue.
This is about "how do we make this a more attractive product globally"?
If we want this league to grow and raise the talent level... then we need to attract the talent!
If MLS rules and format seem bizarre to non-North Americans, then they will be hesitant to accept it.

This is perhaps the best point of all. Its really not all about what the fans want to see (though admittedly, that should count for something), but rather what works in the best interests of potential players. And I don't mean just international players considering coming over to play here, but guys already in the colleges and developmental systems who have a choice to stay in North America or go elsewhere.