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Mango Kid
01-26-2009, 09:51 AM
Apologies if this was posted elsewhere - couldn't find it after a big of a search.


http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=612175&sec=mls&root=mls&&&cc=5901

Expansion race remains too close to call


What started out as an MLS expansion race among seven cities set to conclude in January has now turned into a race among five contenders hoping to convince Major League Soccer that their cities should be the chosen markets when the league announces its 17th and 18th franchises in March.


Montreal's controversial exit and Atlanta's recent departure from the field has left us with five contenders for the two 2011 expansion slots, three American markets and two Canadian markets, all of which have different weaknesses and strengths.
Trying to gauge the favorites in this field isn't easy because every time you think you have a favorite pegged, something unexpected happens. There was the Montreal bid, which seemed to be a can't-miss bid and the best option among the Canadian candidates. All it took for MLS to pull the quick hook was Montreal's trying to negotiate the expansion fee of $40 million. This made the race even tougher to predict.


Then there is St. Louis, which seems to have all the components of a strong bid. It has a local ownership group with a sports-star figurehead in MLB's Albert Pujols and a ready-to-go stadium project. Throw in the soccer history and strong youth soccer culture in St. Louis and you would think St. Louis was the easiest choice of all. At least until you hear MLS commissioner Don Garber remind us for the umpteenth time that the St. Louis ownership group needs to get stronger financially.
Despite the league's concerns about the financial strength of St. Louis' bid, MLS officials insist that the current shaky state of the U.S. and global economy has yet to put a serious dent in its efforts to expand.
"We haven't seen an effect yet from the economy on the interest in expansion," MLS president Mark Abbott said. "It remains very strong. Each of the ownership groups is very strong. We haven't seen that impacting our expansion efforts."


Reports in Atlanta suggest otherwise, with the economy's being blamed for the Atlanta bid's inability to secure the partnerships it needed to be able to build a stadium by 2011.


The ability of expansion cities to build their own soccer stadiums has been another interesting development in this 2011 expansion race. In past expansion cycles, it was believed that teams needed to build their own stadiums to be serious contenders, but San Jose's and Seattle's recent expansion bids have proven that this isn't the case.


"You don't necessarily have to build a stadium from the start," Abbott said. "There could be, as we've talked about in Miami, an existing facility that may need upgrades, renovations or modifications.


"The most traditional model is the construction of new stadiums, like Home Depot in Los Angeles, but it's not the only model by which to achieve those goals," Abbott said. "In Miami, what is being discussed is FIU, but that is a stadium that has been renovated with soccer in mind, and the opportunity for the team to generate revenues from the facility.


"What doesn't work for us is simply to be a tenant in somebody else's facility where we're the second or third tenants and don't have any scheduling flexibility or priority, where we don't have access to revenue streams that professional sports teams typically earn from facilities."


How does the league's philosophy on expansion bid stadiums affect the expansion race? It means a city like St. Louis, which already has a stadium plan and public funding in place, isn't benefiting from being the only current bidder with a stadium project ready to go.
That leaves us with five interesting and imperfect bids vying for two expansion berths. We looked at the contenders three months ago. Now, with the decision set to come down in March, here is one more look at the remaining candidates, in order of probability, as they head down the stretch:


MIAMI
Has to be considered the favorite right now. The Miami bid, backed by Spanish giants FC Barcelona and billionaire Marcelo Claure, has had the most buzz, and there have been constant rumblings that Barcelona's considerable involvement in the bid is helping push it to the forefront (along with Claure's bankroll).
The biggest concern about Miami is no longer the poor legacy of the Miami Fusion, which failed in nearby Ft. Lauderdale, but rather the ability of the ownership group to build a stadium in the near future. The proposed temporary home for a Miami MLS club would be the Florida International University football stadium, which would need to be renovated considerably to make it a viable home for an MLS team. Ultimately, a Barcelona-backed Miami club would need its own venue, and it remains unclear just what the ownership group's long-term plans are in that department.
In the end, Miami stands as the current favorite because its ownership group is as close to recession-proof as any in the expansion race, and MLS might just wind up putting its faith in Miami's rich investors' being able to make things work in a way they didn't for the Fusion.



PORTLAND
Regarded as one of the early favorites along with St. Louis and Montreal, Portland's bid has benefited from the demise of one bid and the continued concerns about the financial strength of the other. Bolstered by the financial backing of bid leader Merritt Paulson and the strong reputation the city has for supporting its USL-1 team, the Portland Timbers, Portland's bid looks strong, but its viability hinges on the renovation of PGE Park.
Portland is still trying to secure the public financial backing to go through with the necessary changes to PGE Park. Also, the recent controversy surrounding Portland mayor Sam Adams (a major backer of the Portland MLS bid) and the disclosure that he lied about a sexual relationship with a teenager, can't help. If Paulson fails in securing the funding and support to renovate PGE Park, then Portland's could become the latest "can't-miss" bid to fall by the wayside.


VANCOUVER
You could call Vancouver's bid "the Forgotten Bid," at least in the United States. After getting plenty of buzz early, in part because of the inclusion of NBA star Steve Nash in the bid, Vancouver has received little fanfare in recent months, leaving us to wonder just where it stands in the race.
Given Garber's comments about the league's wanting financially strong ownership groups, Vancouver has to be feeling pretty comfortable. With billionaire Greg Kerfoot, former Yahoo CEO Jeff Mallett and Nash among the members of the group, money is hardly an issue for the Vancouver bid.


So what is an issue? A stadium had been the big concern in Vancouver, but with plans to renovate BC Place already in place, Vancouver's bid is actually much stronger than it is being given credit for.


"There's lots of people aware we've submitted a bid and that it's a pretty solid bid, so we're hearing lots of things from people in general," Vancouver Whitecaps president Bob Lenarduzzi told the Vancouver Sun last week. "At this stage, it doesn't mean much because we haven't really had any clear indication from the league. So as far as we're concerned, we're still in a battle for those two spots."


ST. LOUIS
St. Louis has the local interest, the stadium project and a well-respected ownership group. What it doesn't have is a billionaire whom MLS can feel comfortable with to handle any potential financial challenges the league and the current economic climate might present.


"We really want to be in St. Louis," Garber told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, "but in order to be here, we have to be sure that every aspect of [prospective owner] Jeff Cooper's bid is solid, and one of the weaknesses it has today is that Jeff has not been able to secure the investor who has very deep pockets.


"And that's not just to satisfy the league's needs, that's to assure that the team will be successful in St. Louis, that it can make the right investments in the community, that it can make the right investments in player development, fan development, marketing, promotion, both on- and off-field staff," Garber said. "Lastly, should there be economic challenges for the league, we need to know that the group can have a couple of rocky years. Right now, we're not secure that his group can satisfy the objectives so the team will be successful. Now, other bids [also] have other weaknesses."


Those aren't exactly the things you want to hear as an expansion group just two months before MLS is to make its decision. Jeff Cooper has stated in the past that he has some investors lined up who should help the bid, but with Garber's speaking out just two weeks ago, one can't help but wonder if it will be enough to help one of the country's true soccer hotbeds secure an MLS team that it feels is long overdue.


OTTAWA
The underdog of the group, Ottawa has the financial muscle and the stadium plans, but not the reputation as a soccer market that some of the other contenders have, nor the market size one would expect a growing league like MLS to want.


So how has Ottawa's bid gotten this far? There are fewer concerns about the ownership group, led by Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk, and its stadium proposal is certainly an intriguing one. MLS officials are set to visit Ottawa next week, and now that Montreal has fallen out of the race, Ottawa has gone from longest of long shots to a sleeper that just might surprise the field.

Lucky Strike
01-26-2009, 10:31 AM
Pretty much how I see it too.

Wagner
01-26-2009, 10:34 AM
MLS is looking for stronger TV money...
Columbus vs. Ottawa won't draw viewers.

LA vs. Miami will...

rocker
01-26-2009, 10:40 AM
MLS is looking for stronger TV money...
.

Vancouver versus toronto will get stronger TV money for Canadian rights.

Fort York Redcoat
01-26-2009, 10:47 AM
Vancouver versus toronto will get stronger TV money for Canadian rights.

True but not MLS's concern.

ensco
01-26-2009, 11:08 AM
That ESPN cloumn looks about right...pretty far cry from Dobson's "Vancouver is a lock" homer gibberish

One thing about Kerfoot: you see this "billionaire" tag applied to him in all these stories, but no one knows how much money he has, good luck to anyone who tries to figure it out (the V's have whole threads on this).

He was an owner of a private company sold for a billion dollars, but no one knows what percentage he owned or what the debt was on the business.

Kerfoot is by all accounts a decent person and a huge friend of Canadian soccer. Not slagging the guy, just pointing out a big issue that MLS will focus on behind the scenes.

mighty_torontofc_2008
01-26-2009, 11:21 AM
MLS is looking for stronger TV money...
Columbus vs. Ottawa won't draw viewers.

LA vs. Miami will...


Toronto doesn;t draw viewers either...right??

rocker
01-26-2009, 11:24 AM
True but not MLS's concern.

why not? Garber was in Toronto at the allstar game to discuss MLS and national TV rights. That's league rights. Canada is another national TV market for MLS to access, if done right.

ensco
01-26-2009, 11:30 AM
why not? Garber was in Toronto at the allstar game to discuss MLS and national TV rights. That's league rights. Canada is another national TV market for MLS to access, if done right.

um, maybe because 93% of the teams are already in the US? and all the Canadian TV market can ever be is about 10% of the size of the US market?

Pachuco
01-26-2009, 11:34 AM
I think Jerk-off Dobson should take a page from Ive's writing.

Red Patch CA
01-26-2009, 12:13 PM
The 10% of the U.S. market is often thrown about without much analysis. It depends upon the product and service. In the case of national TV rights you only have to look at the NHL which, in Canada, generates substiantially more than 10% of the U.S. NHL television rights revenue. I'm not saying that the MLS is like the NHL but that it is conceivable and possible likely that Canada will exceed the 10% figure.

rocker
01-26-2009, 12:22 PM
um, maybe because 93% of the teams are already in the US? and all the Canadian TV market can ever be is about 10% of the size of the US market?

this thread is about expansion. If you expand to Canada, your percentage of Canadian teams goes up and then you increase the potential of TV rights in Canada.

Right now having just 1 Canadian team isn't exactly going to maximize TV revenue potential in Canada.

Adding Portland, for example, doesn't do much for the TV rights in America, since the business is already tapped (MLS already has a deal with the major channels) and Portland isn't a huge TV market.

Canada is an untapped market, however, but it needs teams in multiple cities to attract national audiences. We can't just assume people in Vanny are going to go out of their way to watch TFC games.

VPjr
01-26-2009, 12:23 PM
That ESPN cloumn looks about right...pretty far cry from Dobson's "Vancouver is a lock" homer gibberish

One thing about Kerfoot: you see this "billionaire" tag applied to him in all these stories, but no one knows how much money he has, good luck to anyone who tries to figure it out (the V's have whole threads on this).

He was an owner of a private company sold for a billion dollars, but no one knows what percentage he owned or what the debt was on the business.

Kerfoot is by all accounts a decent person and a huge friend of Canadian soccer. Not slagging the guy, just pointing out a big issue that MLS will focus on behind the scenes.

I think Kerfoot brought in the partners (the guy from Yahoo and some other Silicone Valley rich guy) in order to deter anyone from questioning if the ownership group is properly capitalized.

Really, the only thing even remotely hurting Vancouver is the stadium situation. If they had a plan for the waterfront stadium, they are a stone cold lock. As it is, they are still the best or 2nd best group of the 5 still remaining

Steve
01-26-2009, 12:32 PM
I'm really starting to hate the Miami bid. I get the impression they're not really taking MLS seriously, and don't really understand the dynamics of it. All that "we don't really need a stadium" talk is shit. I'm sorry, but I thought MLS was looking at getting all of its teams into SSS, not adding more teams without them. Personally, I'd be all in favour of not letting a team into MLS unless they have, at the very least, broken ground on the site of their new SSS, with good plans in place to play at a temporary venue until their primary site is complete. Too much can go wrong with "plans" to build a stadium.

CoachGT
01-26-2009, 12:39 PM
^^ If you are willing to pay $40 million today for something that would have cost $10 million just a couple of years ago, stadium becomes a secondary point. All you need is a plan for moving into a new stadium.

ensco
01-26-2009, 01:40 PM
I think Kerfoot brought in the partners (the guy from Yahoo and some other Silicone Valley rich guy) in order to deter anyone from questioning if the ownership group is properly capitalized.

Really, the only thing even remotely hurting Vancouver is the stadium situation. If they had a plan for the waterfront stadium, they are a stone cold lock. As it is, they are still the best or 2nd best group of the 5 still remaining

It's just impossible to say if that group has the financial capability MLS are looking for. Anyway, it's bigger than that. I think there's a question about whether Vancouver is a major league city (this is a huge question for Portland or Ottawa). What happened with the Grizzlies won't help.

I'm under no illusions, but I am pulling for Vancouver hard.

mighty_torontofc_2008
01-26-2009, 02:45 PM
I'm really starting to hate the Miami bid. I get the impression they're not really taking MLS seriously, and don't really understand the dynamics of it. All that "we don't really need a stadium" talk is shit. I'm sorry, but I thought MLS was looking at getting all of its teams into SSS, not adding more teams without them. Personally, I'd be all in favour of not letting a team into MLS unless they have, at the very least, broken ground on the site of their new SSS, with good plans in place to play at a temporary venue until their primary site is complete. Too much can go wrong with "plans" to build a stadium.


that why i hate Vancovers appraoch...they think they can get by, with
using BC place...thats a no go and MLS should step in and say so. But im sure when the decision comes down Vancouver will be left out in the cold.
Montreal on the other hand have a nice little SSS which MLS would love, the drawback is their owner is a dickhead, and whats things his way,but MLS is not Burger king Mr Saputo, and you just killed Montreals chance of being in a big league.

Wagner
01-26-2009, 03:01 PM
that why i hate Vancovers appraoch...they think they can get by, with
using BC place...thats a no go and MLS should step in and say so. But im sure when the decision comes down Vancouver will be left out in the cold.
Montreal on the other hand have a nice little SSS which MLS would love, the drawback is their owner is a dickhead, and whats things his way,but MLS is not Burger king Mr Saputo, and you just killed Montreals chance of being in a big league.

That's because Montreal is a minor league town...(other than the Habs).
;)

T_Mizz
01-26-2009, 11:03 PM
I'm liking the potential derbies coming from this, no matter whether its Portland or Vancouver that NW battle is gonna be pretty big

mighty_torontofc_2008
01-26-2009, 11:06 PM
2011 - Miami and Ottawa

2012 - Vancouver and Portland

2013-15 no expansion
2016 - St Louis & Montreal

T_Mizz
01-26-2009, 11:08 PM
That's 22 isn't it^
I thought FIFA said Leagues can be max 20?

Razcle
01-26-2009, 11:18 PM
LOL...who knows what the hell is going on for the future.

Remember there is also Atlanta, Las Vagas, NY2, mentions of Milwalkee, Pheonix, Detroit

twistedchinaman
01-26-2009, 11:42 PM
this thread is about expansion. If you expand to Canada, your percentage of Canadian teams goes up and then you increase the potential of TV rights in Canada.

Right now having just 1 Canadian team isn't exactly going to maximize TV revenue potential in Canada.

Adding Portland, for example, doesn't do much for the TV rights in America, since the business is already tapped (MLS already has a deal with the major channels) and Portland isn't a huge TV market.

Canada is an untapped market, however, but it needs teams in multiple cities to attract national audiences. We can't just assume people in Vanny are going to go out of their way to watch TFC games.

^ Exactly. And Vancouverites probably would pack BC Place just to see the Shitecaps destroy our lads. You think we Albertans have it in for Toronto? You ain't see NOTHIN' yet with Van-town.

twistedchinaman
01-26-2009, 11:44 PM
It's just impossible to say if that group has the financial capability MLS are looking for. Anyway, it's bigger than that. I think there's a question about whether Vancouver is a major league city (this is a huge question for Portland or Ottawa). What happened with the Grizzlies won't help.

I'm under no illusions, but I am pulling for Vancouver hard.

^ I'm all in for Vancouver as well -- easy access to road games. :)

I'll also say Miami FTW as well, since the money there is just too much for Garber to pass up.


EDIT: Anybody who suggests I will jump ship to the Shitecaps if they get in can go fuck themselves.

T_Mizz
01-27-2009, 12:13 AM
You know guys I think twistedchinaman is going to jump ship to the Shitecaps if they...
Oh wait nevermind